No good ending here: Idaho mom dead, other kids missing

[Howl]

East Idaho News has new links at www.eastidahonews.com/news/daybell/  to multiple new posts, but most importantly, clear evidence that Lori and Chad were romantically involved prior to Tammy's murder. 

I truly, deeply feel for the Daybell kids.  Although all grown, I can't imagine the horror of trying to psychologically navigate the sudden loss of their sweet mom last year and what their dad did (ran off and married Lori a few weeks later) and what he's accused of. 

I strongly expect that when they are exposed to ALL of the evidence that at least one or two will come to terms with the reality of their father's involvement in their mother's murder and the murder of Tylee and JJ.  

I also wonder if the cumulative evidence coming together will cause Chad to ask for a plea deal (life in prison in exchange for death penalty off the table). 

I wonder if Alex Cox's phone can be placed at the Daybell's home at the time of  

1. the "paintball gun" incident reported by Tammy
2. any time around Tammy's death

 

[EmmieJ]

Re Chad's adult children:  I think Chad's daughter, Emma, may continue to believe (or at least publicly state) that Chad is innocent and that he was framed by Lori and Alex.  Even after seeing the autopsy results for Tammy, the Daybell offspring still downplayed those results. "Asphyxiation doesn't necessarily mean smothered," added Mark Daybell. "According to my understanding, it just means the breath was interrupted. And in the end, she wasn't able to breathe."  So what do they think happened?  That Tammy was choking on something in her throat and couldn't breathe?  That she turned her face into her pillow and somehow that impeded her breathing to the point she died?  What sort of twisted logic do they need to apply to believe that her death was natural?  

Their refusal to admit that the sequence of all the events leading up to their mother's death strongly points to Chad's guilt tells me they are just going to continue to refuse to believe anything that doesn't support "our dad is innocent."  The fact that Tylee and JJ were buried in their father's back yard yet somehow their own father didn't notice the ground was disturbed - apparently they've found a way to dismiss that too.  

Maybe ten years or more down the road, maybe then they might acknowledge that Chad, their father, is a liar, an accomplice (at the very least) to the murder of innocent children, an adulterer, and a big phony to boot.  Maybe.

[Howl]

5 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

The fact that Tylee and JJ were buried in their father's back yard yet somehow their own father didn't notice the ground was disturbed -

...yes, the body of his lover's teen daughter had been dismembered and burned...

Edited October 9, 2021 by Howl

[Chickenbutt]

Idaho judge grants Chad Daybell, husband of 'doomsday cult' mom, request for change of venue in murder trial - New York Times Post (nytimespost.com)

Change of Venue has been granted. Trial has been delayed.

 

 

[Chickenbutt]

Lori Vallow tried to kill husband Joseph, according to her brother – ‘There is a whole pattern of things there’ (msn.com)

“Lori and Alex planned to kill Joe,” Vallow’s other brother, Adam Cox previously told detectives, according to the documents obtained by the Deseret News. “They planned out how they were going to kill Joe, and Al was going to Taser him, throw him in the trunk and take him out to a field and shoot him and then bury him. Well, Al went to Taser him and it didn’t work and Joe called the cops and Al went to jail.”

[EmmieJ]

I knew Alex Cox was arrested for assaulting Joe, but this is the first I’ve heard that he and Lori planned to murder him.  I’ve suspected they somehow poisoned him but I don’t know any way that could be proved.

[Chickenbutt]

Brother in Lori Vallow Daybell case thought he was 'fall guy', according to widow (msn.com)

In the April 2021 interview, Zulema questioned early on her relationships with Lori and Chad.  

"How could I ever done anything like this? Get involved with people like this?" she shared with investigators. 

Interesting article. 

[Howl]

On 10/10/2021 at 5:51 PM, EmmieJ said:

I knew Alex Cox was arrested for assaulting Joe, but this is the first I’ve heard that he and Lori planned to murder him.  I’ve suspected they somehow poisoned him but I don’t know any way that could be proved.

I remember reading about the assault incident and at some point realized that it took place about a block off my bike route to the gym.  It's a quiet residential neighborhood, and the "facility" is a place where people go to have supervised visits with their children.  I think Joe was there visiting Tylee.

Pretty sure Alex was a serial murderer.  I think he's good for the murder of Joe, the attempted murder and maybe actual murder of Tammy Daybell and the murder of Charles Vallow.   He was certainly  involved in the assassination attempt on Brandon Boudreaux, the now ex husband of Lori's niece Melani Boudreaux Pawlowski.  The bullet missed Brandon's head by inches and the shooter(s) drove a red Jeep registered to Charles Vallow, mostly used by Tylee. 

Years earlier, Alex was at home in the house when his sister died of presumably natural causes, using her credit card to order pizza. 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Howl

[Howl]

Well this is quite the little bombshell, but, alas, doesn't show Chad was involved in planning Charles Vallow's death murder: Chad Daybell called funeral home hours after Charles Vallow was killed, police reports show

Chad, who identified himself as Chad Dabal, called Valley of the Sun Mortuary inquiring about the cost of cremation and having the cremains shipped to Louisiana.  

Also news to me: 

Quote

Arizona detectives recommended that Daybell be charged in connection to Vallow’s death but prosecutors declined saying there is “no reasonable likelihood of conviction.” Court records show there is “no obvious communication” between Daybell and Lori to indicate he was directly involved in the planning of Charles’ shooting.

I wonder if Lori and Chad used burner phones or how they communicated.  They can't have been too discreet because Charles knew Lori was having an affair. 

Does it matter?  I think Chad is going to be spending the rest of his life in prison anyway. 

[Chickenbutt]

Everyday I ask myself if this case can get any creepier, and it does. What a bunch of scary people. 

[Howl]

New post on East Idaho News.  Lori Daybell’s attorney says she’s being ‘manipulated’ and reached out to LDS Church attorneys

I can't quite make sense of this article.   You have claims made by a woman who is being held in a psychiatric facility because she is unable to take part in her defense. 

Lori's attorney Means IIRC has no experience defending a complex case like Lori's. 

...so did a clinician at Lori's facility really recommend that Lori call the LDS offices and speak to a lawyer and provide a number? And did Lori call that number and speak to a lawyer, who is named in the article? Apparently yes.  The lawyer she spoke with then called the prosecution and relayed what had transpired.  Does Lori have a cell phone or unlimited phone access in her facility?  What the heck is up with the "clinician." 

Quote

In the court filing, Means claims Daybell conversed with a clinician he believed was employed by IDHW. On Oct. 5, the clinician and Daybell watched the change of venue hearing for her husband Chad Daybell. While watching the hearing, Means claims the clinician recommended Daybell contact attorneys with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Salt Lake City and possibly obtain legal counsel other than a state-appointed public defender.

“(The clinician) took the ‘recommendation’ further and then provided defendant with the direct telephone number to contact the LDS church counsel and issued an ‘order’ that this was part of the defendant’s ‘homework’ for her treatment,” Means wrote.

Much more available in the article link.  

How is a person who isn't mentally able to assist in her own defense able to argue that she wants a different lawyer?  

Lori's "public defender" was appointed to the case specifically because he is death penalty qualified in the state of Idaho,  a state where there are not very many death penalty qualified lawyers.  Can he be removed from the case?

Edited October 28, 2021 by Howl

[EmmieJ]

If this story is accurate, perhaps that clinician needs to be removed as one of Lori's caregivers.  Maybe she should even be moved to a different mental health facility?  (There probably isn't another one in the area - so doubtful that would even be an option.)  But looking back at the fact that for her initial 180 days she was able to refuse to take medication -- I'm getting a slightly different viewpoint.  Perhaps the clinician involved in her care is, like Mark Means, somehow under her thrall.  Sounds like the clinicians at this facility are in need of serious oversight.

[Howl]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:50 PM, Chickenbutt said:

Everyday I ask myself if this case can get any creepier, and it does. What a bunch of scary people. 

OK, it just got magnitudes creepier.  Mega creepier.  The ex-wife referred to here is from a 1992 marriage to Alex Cox that lasted 5 months because...problems...and she got the hell out. 

LISTEN: Ex-wife details bizarre relationship between Alex Cox and Lori Vallow Daybell

"Debbie" called the Chandler police with a statement in Sept. 2020.  From the article linked above: 

Spoiler

The ex-wife described a lot of inappropriate sexual touching between [Alex] Cox and [Lori] Daybell. According to the call and a Chandler Police report, Debbie said the brother and sister would simulate sex acts in front of her and the rest of the family.

“He also talked about (how she was) hot, and he sexualized her quite a bit. He did touch her breast and things,” Debbie said. “Alex and I only lived together married about four or five months. Then I just knew that family was too weird and that I made a big mistake, so I got out.”

 

[TuringMachine]

17 hours ago, Howl said:

How is a person who isn't mentally able to assist in her own defense able to argue that she wants a different lawyer?  

Lori's "public defender" was appointed to the case specifically because he is death penalty qualified in the state of Idaho,  a state where there are not very many death penalty qualified lawyers.  Can he be removed from the case?

Mark Means really doesn't like the more qualified lawyer. He already tried to get him removed but the judge was like, you can't claim she's not competent to stand trial then try to claim she's competent to waive her right to a court appointed lawyer.

 

Here's Lori Hellis's take https://thelorivallowstory.com/archive/updates-data-dumps-and-means-latest-motion-october-27-2021

Some tl;dr

She thinks the clinician was trying to trying to encourage to take a more active interest in her case to help keep her in reality, and thought the church could help her find better council than the clearly unqualified Means, perhaps not realizing that the LDS church has excommunicated Lori. She also thinks Means is pissed the Wood is A: a member of the LDS church and B: called Archibald instead of him. She thinks Means's strategy will be to claim that Lori was so with the church she somehow didn't understand her children were humans she was killing. 

 

Also I like his demand that the judge "disqualify the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare". Lolwut

[Howl]

1 hour ago, TuringMachine said:

Mark Means really doesn't like the more qualified lawyer. He already tried to get him removed but the judge was like, you can't claim she's not competent to stand trial then try to claim she's competent to waive her right to a court appointed lawyer.

I have to wonder if there's a strategy here to dump the current excellent death-penalty-qualified lawyer, knowing that there are very few replacements available, thus another potential source of delay.  They are crazy to want to dump that lawyer because he knows what's going on, he's experienced in defending complex murder cases where the death penalty in on the table, he knows the pitfalls. 

So yeah, Lori is treading in some dangerous waters here.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Howl

[Chickenbutt]

If Lori is competent enough to want a new lawyer, and take steps to get a new lawyer, then she is absolutely competent to participate in her trial and understand what is going on. This may come back to bite whoever orchestrated this. Idiots! 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Chickenbutt
trail is not trial

[Howl]

Lots of legal wrangling going on.

Chad Daybell’s attorney wants a non-LDS special prosecutor following alleged IDHW incident (IDHW = Idaho Department of Health and Welfare)

This is getting a lot deeper into the legal weeds, with all the lawyers involved. 

• Lori's lawyers: Mark Means and state appointed, death penalty qualified co-counsel Jim Archibald
• Chad's attorney: John Prior
• Madison County Prosecutor:  Rob Wood
• LDS lawyer Daniel McConkie (not directly related to the case)

Y'all may recall that, on the recommendation of a staff member in Lori's mental health facility, Lori called and spoke with LDS attorney Daniel McConkie.  After talking to Lori, McConkie called Madison County prosecutor Ron Woods. 

Quote

Means [Lori's attorney] says McConkie [LDS lawyer] called Madison County Prosecutor Rob Wood and disclosed the statements Lori made during the phone call. Wood then contacted public defender Jim Archibald, who Boyce appointed as Means’ co-counsel on the case in August.

and my favorite sentence, that kinda indicates how complicated this is:

Quote

Wood told Archibald that Lori told McConkie she wants “a new, not state-appointed attorney,” according to Means.

This all annoyed John Prior, Chad's attorney, because Lori and Chad are co-defendants. 

Quote

In documents filed Friday, John Prior, Chad’s attorney, requests an evidentiary hearing into the issue and is requesting a special prosecutor who is not affiliated with the case or a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Howl

[Howl]

For those of us who just can't get enough of true crime, Dateline NBC to air ‘The Doomsday Files’ on the Chad and Lori Daybell case

“The Doomsday Files” airs from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m....Dateline says the new two-hour special will feature exclusive interviews, secret recordings, text messages, new evidence and more to shine light on [Chad and Lori's] motives. 

Nov. 12, NBC, 9 pm Eastern/ 8 pm Central 

[Howl]

Updated timeline from East Idaho News, useful as a refresher. 

The latest timeline in the Lori and Chad Daybell case

[Howl]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:38 AM, Howl said:

For those of us who just can't get enough of true crime, Dateline NBC to air ‘The Doomsday Files’ on the Chad and Lori Daybell case

Warning, if you watch this Doomsday File,  the term "loinfire" may live rent free in your brain forever. 

New: Alex Cox likely drugged Zulema with the intention of murdering her. 

New:  At some point after the attempt on Brandon Boudreaux's life and he went into hiding with their four children, Melani Boudreaux Palowski showed up where Brandon + kids were staying at his parent's house, supposedly to see her kids. 

She was charged with criminal trespass and who was hanging out in a car at the curb and had driven Melani to the house? Alex Cox.

New: Alex Cox was certainly the masked person who accosted Tammy Daybell at her car and fired a live round at her.  It was not a paintball gun, as Tammy had thought. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Howl

[Chickenbutt]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

New: Alex Cox likely drugged Zulema with the intention of murdering her. 

This does not surprise me at all. That relationship has always been a bit of a mystery to me. 

 

[Howl]

7 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

This does not surprise me at all. That relationship has always been a bit of a mystery to me. 

It was a bit of a mystery to Zulema herself.  The show aired footage of 3 detectives interviewing Zulema.  One asked her if she thought that Alex really loved her or if the marriage was something that Lori and Chad wanted Alex to do.  She didn't really know. 

The main thing is that Zulema was an almost victim.

The day after they married in Vegas, Zulema was having back problems and Alex offered to give her a massage.  He was a trained massage therapist who lost his massage license many years ago due to a sexual misconduct. Go figure. 

Before he would give her a massage, he insisted on going to WalMart to buy a large piece of plastic (a drop cloth used for painting), ostensibly so the massage oil would not get on the hotel sheets.  The Doomsday Files then cut to footage of Dexter spreading out large pieces of plastic.  (Dexter is a TV show about the eponymous police blood spatter expert who is also a serial killer of criminals, and knows how to leave no trace.) 

Zulema during the interview: 

Quote

“At the time (of the massage), I had no question about it,” she told them. “There was not enough oil for a drop cloth (and) now I’m like, ‘Why would you necessitate a whole drop cloth all over the bed to give me a massage?’ That doesn’t make any sense to me at all … Maybe I’m just a little too crazy because of all the stuff that’s happened, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking that who was on the phone was Chad and Lori and that was supposed to be my last day.”

East Idaho News covered this interview on October 8 when the Chandler police released it.  There is a link to the interview in this article:  What Alex Cox revealed days before he died and the unusual massage he gave his wife

Moving forward to the night that JJ was murdered, Lori and Alex were texting about eggs and if Alex needed to get some eggs.  The show pointed out that "eggs" is a street term for Valium/Diazepam.   Lori's friend and her boyfriend were visiting that night and the boyfriend noted that JJ had been acting out earlier, Alex took him over to his apartment, two hours later came back over to Lori's apt with JJ who was sleeping soundly. JJ was murdered that night. 

Did Alex give Chad something to drug Tammy before he smothered/asphyxiated her? Was Alex actually in the house when Tammy died?

My take is that Alex was a stone cold psychopath who had murdered before, possibly many times before.  Tylee was dismembered before being burned and I suspect it wasn't his first dismemberment rodeo. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Howl

[Chickenbutt]

I will listen to the interview of Zulema a bit later. I think my question is why? Why was she brought into the mess just to be killed, if in fact that was the plan? What was her purpose for Alex, Lori and Chad? 

[Howl]

3 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

Why was she brought into the mess just to be killed, if in fact that was the plan? What was her purpose for Alex, Lori and Chad? 

There were no clues or insights about that. 

I'm not clear on how she knew Chad and Lori and Alex -- whether it was through an LDS temple or Chad's books and podcasts.  She originally thought they were decent, good, kind upstanding people. 

[Chickenbutt]

Attempted murder charges recommended against Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow in Gilbert | Lori Vallow Case | azfamily.com

Chandler, AZ Police Department recommend charges against Lori and Chad for the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux