AMA with former ATI member

[FilleMondaine]

I've been reading all of this with utter fascination/horror. I initially believed everything she said, and that's the lesson that I take from this situation: QF and ATI are truly horrible enough that even the more outlandish claims are initially believable. To me, all of this demonstrates the depths of harm possible with ATI in particular and QF in general. That's' my biggest takeaway.

FJ is such an important resource for combating QF. Also, FJ has an impressive collection of community members. Holy research, Batman!

[formergothardite]

56 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

My vote is for someone else.  Someone who didn't know Ruth had already alerted the scam uncovering sharks in her chosen goldfish pond of well-meaning, empathetic, and gullible Duggar-followers.  

I agree. I really think RR would have been way more careful and this particular person didn't seem to know how good people in this community are when it come to uncovering scams. She is very aware of that. They also didn't seem to understand that Reddit was forever so they couldn't erase things that made it clear the story didn't add up.

 

 

 

[Rachel333]

4 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

If it’s helpful, you can replace “reddit” in a url to “removeddit” to see any deleted comments. 

This only shows the original version of the comment (which is probably want you want to see here!), so if the comment was edited before it was deleted then it won't show that version.

Come to think of it, if you wanted to prevent reddit from archiving your comment, you could post something different first and then edit it to your intended comment.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Rachel333

[Beermeet]

I'm surprised this person is not more familiar with Reddit considering all the posting they have done.  I learned a lot just yesterday and I'm super new.  I'm mostly relieved that Happy Cake Day means Reddit Birthday vs. an annoying way to say Happy Birthday! Idk why that irritated me so much!   

I couldn't seem to get the removeddit to work but I did find out if you go to the OP's profile and look on comments, the deleted ones are still there. At least the retort to "Do you know Brooke?"  is still there. If you click on the comment it takes you to the spot in the discussion in real time where it is deleted.  

[Rachel333]

22 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I couldn't seem to get the removeddit to work but I did find out if you go to the OP's profile and look on comments, the deleted ones are still there. At least the retort to "Do you know Brooke?"  is still there. If you click on the comment it takes you to the spot in the discussion in real time where it is deleted.  

That's because she didn't delete them, they were removed by moderators. I wasn't paying attention, but if you look at the screenshots on the last page, most of the deleted comments are in red, indicating that they were removed by moderators, rather than blue, which would mean they were deleted by the user. That's interesting, because it shows that she's not the one cleaning up her comments, it's the subreddit moderators. The moderators also locked the AMA thread a few hours ago.

[Beermeet]

6 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

That's because she didn't delete them, they were removed by moderators. I wasn't paying attention, but if you look at the screenshots on the last page, most of the deleted comments are in red, indicating that they were removed by moderators, rather than blue, which would mean they were deleted by the user. That's interesting, because it shows that she's not the one cleaning up her comments, it's the subreddit moderators. The moderators also locked the AMA thread a few hours ago.

That's weird. TY for explaining that! Maybe they are embarrassed after googling Brooke or something. The AMA clearly got shut down after this thread was discovered by the mods. 

So, does this mean the red deleted Pa Keller angry post that @adidas shared was deleted 4 days ago? Because, if so, the mods have been deleting stuff like that the whole time.  This AMA is an entire rabbit hole!

[adidas]

Does anyone know when Big Sandy was purchased? 

The more I read into the back story, the more I am convinced that this person spent some time in the cult as a child - but they researched a lot and have embellished their story very liberally with elements from other people who’ve spoken out. 
 

[Beermeet]

I looked for a reference to the deleted Barbie in the 90's comment in Jay's history.  Yep, stated had a Barbie in the 90's.  So, if if she did spend some time in the cult it included a Barbie.  On the Serial postings Jay often mentions abuse in her past.  PTSD and treating it with micro dosing psychedelics ( heard of this and a friend is micro dosing for seizures).  Chick also likes to party. 

I'm currently stuck on what it means that the Mods deleted stuff. I wonder how much and when it started.  

Edited December 21, 2019 by Beermeet
Forgot screenshot

[formergothardite]

48 minutes ago, adidas said:

Does anyone know when Big Sandy was purchased?

2001. They rented it from the Green family(Hobby Lobby) for a year or so before that. 

[Marmion]

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

My vote is for someone else.  Someone who didn't know Ruth had already alerted the scam uncovering sharks in her chosen goldfish pond of well-meaning, empathetic, and gullible Duggar-followers.  

If anyone from Reddit who swallowed Jay's story whole and now feels foolish wanders over here -- don't feel bad.  These folk are clever as well as sick and they prey on nice people.   Unfortunately they also do a lot of harm to genuine survivors of IBLP who try to tell their stories.  The truth is bad enough.  There's no need to make up nutty stories.

It's a form of Munchausen by Internet.  https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-20981-036

And many thanks to @Marmion for finding where Jay's Moterbike stole the story she later embellished.   Great research. 

 

You're welcome , and thank you for your appreciation . I appreciate it .  Also , I just wanted to mention that what you described transcends and predates the internet .  For instance , this man who claimed to have been a Holocaust survivor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binjamin_Wilkomirski , and especially this supposed escapee from an abusive convent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Monk .  The harm caused by such sensationalized stories is not only to the cridible reputations of actual survivors of religious cult abuse , but also it might even inspire vigilante mob violence in response , such as in the case of the Ursuline Convent Riots .   

 

4 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

I've been reading all of this with utter fascination/horror. I initially believed everything she said, and that's the lesson that I take from this situation: QF and ATI are truly horrible enough that even the more outlandish claims are initially believable. To me, all of this demonstrates the depths of harm possible with ATI in particular and QF in general. That's' my biggest takeaway.

FJ is such an important resource for combating QF. Also, FJ has an impressive collection of community members. Holy research, Batman!

If it makes you feel any better , I don't really expect  the average person to fact check the way that I can , and tend to do .  You see , believe it or not , I have certification in both private investigation , and paralegal studies , among other things , from Stratford Career Institute , and as part of this professional training I have studied how to do online research . So I know just what to do to find  information , as well as seek out verification via  internet searchs .  So while I might seem like some sort of wunderkind , I really have just been putting my job skills to good use .  

[Beermeet]

4 minutes ago, Marmion said:

You're welcome , and thank you for your appreciation . I appreciate it .  Also , I just wanted to mention that what you described transcends and predates the internet .  For instance , this man who claimed to have been a Holocaust survivor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binjamin_Wilkomirski , and especially this supposed escapee from an abusive convent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Monk .  The harm caused by such sensationalized stories is not only to the cridible reputations of actual survivors of religious cult abuse , but also it might even inspire vigilante mob violence in response , such as in the case of the Ursuline Convent Riots .   

 

If it makes you feel any better , I don't really expect  the average person to fact check the way that I can , and tend to do .  You see , believe it or not , I have certification in both private investigation , and paralegal studies , among other things , from Stratford Career Institute , and as part of this professional training I have studied how to do online research . So I know just what to do to find  information , as well as seek out verification via  internet searchs .  So while I might seem like some sort of wunderkind , I really have just been putting my job skills to good use .  

I want to give you the cute clapping fish so badly but my phone freezes up when I try and use FJ emojis.  You are awesome and completely changed the game here!

So, in your opinion, why do you think the mods deleted Jay's posts? I was sure it was Jay.  

 

[Marmion]

Just now, Beermeet said:

So, in your opinion, why do you think the mods deleted Jay's posts? I was sure it was Jay

Your guess is as good as mine . But if I were to speculate , I would suppose that reddit was probably concerned about Keller catching wind of the allegation made that he is running a male prostitution racket , and deciding to sue them for defamation .  Reddit will not want to risk litigation over unsubstantiated allegations , I would imagine .   

[formergothardite]

 

On 12/19/2019 at 10:38 AM, Howl said:

Also, this is so beyond bizarre, each girl in a Gothard family household was supposed to track her period on the family calendar. 

Just to make sure people, know this isn't true. What he actually teaches is:

Quote

that a man keep track of his wife’s menstrual cycle and use it as a reminder of the sufferings and death of Jesus

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2014/01/moms-cycle-was-on-the-family-calender/

 

[quiversR4hunting]

I am waiting in the edge of my seat to find out if Jays_motorcycle has a constipated fish. 

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I am waiting in the edge of my seat to find out if Jays_motorcycle has a constipated fish. 

And/or a genius toddler who reads the NYT! 

[MayMay1123]

[pook]

7 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

I've been reading all of this with utter fascination/horror. I initially believed everything she said, and that's the lesson that I take from this situation: QF and ATI are truly horrible enough that even the more outlandish claims are initially believable. To me, all of this demonstrates the depths of harm possible with ATI in particular and QF in general. That's' my biggest takeaway.

FJ is such an important resource for combating QF. Also, FJ has an impressive collection of community members. Holy research, Batman!

Yes!

I completely believed her initially too.  It wasn't until I watched the Brooke video just yesterday evening that I completely did a 180.

[Cheetah]

I totally believed her.  Well, I thought her Keller speculations and the pronouncements about how every single family in ATI were abusing their daughters were exaggerated due to her own trauma history but otherwise true.  You guys are good.

[JermajestyDuggar]

If this person is just copying the life of Brooke, then it makes sense you would believe. Because it did happen to someone. Just not this person. So don’t feel too duped. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[Beermeet]

I have a question for our more seasoned Reddit FJ'ers.  Is it in their board culture to investigate an AMA if things are off or correct themselves if something is off and say something about it? Or, would they just gloss over it, on to the next thing?   This sort of thing damages credibility to a forum and real survivor's of a cult. Plus, basically plagiarism. 

[Flyinthesoup]

Does anyone know how old Brooke is?  I thought I remembered Jay saying something about being in her early 40's, is that correct?

Quote

level 2

Jays_Motorcycle

367 points·5 days ago·edited 4 days ago

Also, it was required that ATI fathers get a vasectomy reversal if they had one before they joined. Mr Gothard made a choir of all of the children who had been born after their fathers reversed their vasectomies. The Vasectomy Reversal Choir was part of the entertainment portion of our annual conference in Knoxville. This conference would be the same one that Josh and Anna met at and is featured in the first special.

I'm pretty sure that's false.  It may have been recommended?  Certainly not mandatory as I knew a few families who were in it, and that was not a requirement for them.  I'm also pretty sure that was not on the application form.  How many children you have and photos of families were required, but not mandatory reversals....and again, many women had their tubes tied, and I know that was never a focus.  Again, it was a Reversal Choir, not Vasectomy Reversal Choir.

[church_of_dog]

2 minutes ago, Flyinthesoup said:

Does anyone know how old Brooke is?  I thought I remembered Jay saying something about being in her early 40's, is that correct?

I'm pretty sure that's false.  It may have been recommended?  Certainly not mandatory as I knew a few families who were in it, and that was not a requirement for them.  I'm also pretty sure that was not on the application form.  How many children you have and photos of families were required, but not mandatory reversals....and again, many women had their tubes tied, and I know that was never a focus.  Again, it was a Reversal Choir, not Vasectomy Reversal Choir.

Jay said she was close in age to Josh/Anna.  Brooke seemed older in the video I saw, maybe early 40s would be close.

[Marmion]

7 minutes ago, Flyinthesoup said:

Does anyone know how old Brooke is?  I thought I remembered Jay saying something about being in her early 40's, is that correct

According to this , Brooke  would appear to be 39 yes. old .   https://www.peoplefinders.com/name/brook-arnold/ny

[Beermeet]

Yes, I remember Jay saying she was a bit older than Josh and Anna.  So, 39 seems to match up. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Beermeet
Wrote 30 instead of 39.

[adidas]

If Big Sandy was purchased in 2001 just before Jays ran away, then she couldn’t have left 20+ years ago as per one of her posts. The math just doesn’t add up because 2001 was 18 years ago.

On the other hand, if she ran away a bit over 10 years ago according to some of her other posts, it would mean she isn’t a few years older than Josh.