Dear Mr Morrison

[Smash!]

Discovered this thread just now and I'm horrified. I did a quick Twitter search and got the impression Australia got itself a mini-45 (I refuse to call him by name), is this correct? This whole thread screams WTF.   I mean a PM going on vacation when his continent is going up in flames clearly speaks for how much he cares about a country he took an oath to serve.
Big hugs to you all and stay safe!

I have a question tough not directly related to politics: I'm thinking about travelling Australia in February and doing Melbourne - Alice Springs and maybe then going to Perth and explore the coast up north. The travel agency I asked about the current situation says it's not a problem, but with all the fires I'm wondering if it's safe or if those (huge) areas will be covered in smoke and I might better delay my plans?

[Ozlsn]

Alice Springs should be fine, although really hot - actually how long are you planning on taking to get there, and how? Flying should be OK, by road might involve some detours. Melbourne is likely to be cooler, whether there is smoke will depend on what's happening at the time which is a bit unpredictable! Perth and the north-west coast I know less about - I would book but be flexible. We really don't know what the fire situation will be like by February - who knows, maybe there will be heavy rain and we'll be worried about flooding!

(And yeah ScoMo is in the mould of 45 and Boris - only he's also an evangelical "Christian" who wants to legitimise bigotry.)

Edited December 19, 2019 by Ozlsn

[Smash!]

@Ozlsn I will most likely book a group tour doing Melbourne - Alice Springs and I have my eyes on Intrepidtravel. So this tour will be by car/bus and no flying involved. It's on pretty short notice as my plans for winter/spring 2020 originally involved taking exams and continue with the next semester at university, 

2 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

(And yeah ScoMo is in the mould of 45 and Boris - only he's also an evangelical "Christian" who wants to legitimise bigotry.)

Damn! How many years has he left until he (hopefully) gets voted out?

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, Smash! said:

Damn! How many years has he left until he (hopefully) gets voted out?

He was just voted back in in May. So at least 3. Lots of time for it to all become the Greens fault. #cynical

Also Intrepid have a good reputation and should be on top of any changes needed - and able to take you to a lot of interesting stuff. Good luck!

Edited December 19, 2019 by Ozlsn

[adidas]

He has cancelled his trip, but it took more deaths to do it. 

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has cancelled his family holiday and will be returning to Sydney as soon as possible after the deaths of two firefighters.

He has released a statement this morning.

"Over the course of the past week I have been taking leave with my family. Our leave was brought forward due to the need to cancel our scheduled leave in January because of our official government visit to India and Japan at the invitation of PMs Modi and Abe.

"I deeply regret any offence caused to any of the many Australians affected by the terrible bushfires by my taking leave with family at this time. I have been receiving regular updates on the bushfires disaster as well as the status of the search for and treatment of the victims of the White Island tragedy. The Commonwealth's responsibilities have been well managed by the Acting Prime Minister, Minister Littleproud and Minister Payne.

"As noted, given the most recent tragic events, I will be returning to Sydney as soon as can be arranged."

@Smash! our system is a bit different - the PM can keep their job as long as they are a member of parliament and they retain the support of the government. We don’t have a minimum or maximum time frame for service, and if a party is not happy with their leader, they can replace her/him (which is why we’ve had so many changes in leadership during the past few years).

So we really do vote for a party, not a person. If you vote for a person and they are elected, there’s no guarantee that they will continue as the leader of their party - but I’ll stop right here because otherwise I’ll make the longest post in FJ history ?

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, adidas said:

I’ll stop right here because otherwise I’ll make the longest post in FJ history ?

And you'll only have gotten back to 2007.

I heard the news this morning, tuned in just in time for them to give the ages and say they had young families. Like everyone I was hoping that there would be no more deaths. Like everyone I knew that the risks - even with the best management possible -mean that deaths and injuries are a possibility. But yeah, I'm sitting here crying for their families and their friends and the crews. And it's not over yet.

Was listening to the ABC radio driving home, they were talking about travel and a presenter made the very snarky throwaway comment "well I hear a hotel room's opened up in Hawaii." I laughed out loud.

[Smash!]

@adidas This is super interesting! I didn't know you guys have such a different system. If you vote for party and not PM how much power has he? My uncle who emigrated to Australia (and unfortunately turned out to be a super asshole) told me once (about 17 years ago or so) voting is mandatory and you get fined if you don't do it. Is this true?

8 hours ago, adidas said:

but I’ll stop right here because otherwise I’ll make the longest post in FJ history ?

I for one wouldn't mind  - I took Political Science in University but changed my subject once I realized that you can't make a decent living with that afterwards.

[Katzchen24]

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

@adidas This is super interesting! I didn't know you guys have such a different system. If you vote for party and not PM how much power has he? My uncle who emigrated to Australia (and unfortunately turned out to be a super asshole) told me once (about 17 years ago or so) voting is mandatory and you get fined if you don't do it. Is this true?

 

Yes, voting is mandatory, but the voting system is very user-friendly and it's really easy to postal vote etc. The PM has plenty of power depending on the balance of seats in the House of Reps and the Senate. The main thing is that they need to maintain their popularity with both the electorate and the party to stay at the top. I've personally never been happier than when former PM and fundy Catholic asshat Tony Abbott not only lost the leadership, but then lost his seat in his electorate in 2019. 

The only advice I can give you about travels in Australia in summer is keep well hydrated, wear a hat and use lots of sunscreen. You can burn to a crisp very quickly. Perth has a very dry heat, which will dehydrate you quickly.

[Ozlsn]

Technically it's only mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off, not to actually vote. 

@Katzchen24 my favourite election moment was the 2007 one when Howard went out. I was in Sydney, and went to see Keating the Musical that night - pre-show and at intermission they were playing the election coverage and the audience was going off. After the show they turned the coverage off so everyone would actually leave - and about half the audience went to the pub across the road to watch there. The next day we went out for breakfast - in Howard's electorate, which he'd just lost. There were a lot of locals whinging about how stupid the electorate was, while other locals were walking around with the biggest grins. It was so hopeful, and best of all? It changed the whole vibe of the end of the musical - it had become another part of history, as the man who had defeated Keating was himself defeated. 

Also the pissed off Sydney matrons were hilarious. Heh.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Ozlsn

[Katzchen24]

13 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Technically it's only mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off, not to actually vote. 

True, but I must confess to being one of those people who turns up, then doggedly makes their way through the whole ballot paper under the line just to be 100% certain that Cory Bernardi doesn't get my vote in any way.

I never saw Keating the Musical, but I can imagine the happiness at Howards loss. 

I also note that ScoMo merely 'regrets' any offence he caused, he's not actually sorry for it.

Scott Morrison Deeply Regrets.... ABC News 19 Dec 2019

Also, there was a grass fire (not threatening) just 1km away from my house, as well as multiple serious fires in the Adelaide Hills. Houses and lives have been lost today.  

[Someone Out There]

@Smash! Personally my preference is to travel around South-East Australia in March/April avoiding Easter rather than February.  Generally by then its starting to cool down a bit(though not 100% guaranteed) and it's not that cold.  There is also generally a lot less risk of fires.  Victoria tends to have it's larger fires in January/February.  I would expect Perth to be similar in regards to temperature (though I could be wrong).  Perth does get hot in summer, but it also cools down overnight with the 'Freemantle Doctor', I'm not sure about up the coast from Perth though.

In terms of fires I would expect your tour operator would be keeping an eye on it/be told by central HQ about developing situations.  If you're thinking about the tour I can see on Intrepid, I would say from about the Flinders Ranges onwards fire is unlikely to be a particular issue as the dense vegetation isn't there.  Heat will be an issue in February.

I would also say, if I was choosing between say, summer (Dec-Feb) and Winter (Jun-Aug) to travel in Australia, I would pick Winter.   In Winter yes, It's colder, but most places you should just need a jacket, and maybe some thermals for the night/early morning or windy locations. It is also easier to add some items of clothing rather than be able to remove more in Summer.  One thing you should be aware of if going to Central Australia is for some of the walks (e.g. Kings Canyon Rim Walk) they will close it to people starting after I think it was 9am if the temperature is expected to be above 38C that day and there is little to no shade on the rim walk.  You will also need to be comfortable hiking with several litres of water on your back if your going in Summer (Winter I was ok with a couple of litres).  Additionally, Northern Australia has it's rainy season in summer, and areas such as Kakadu flood (though the flora is apparently spectacular there in the rainy season).

@Ozlsn For the 2013 election I was hoping for a 2007 style repeat.  I wanted both Abbott and and Rudd to be voted out of their seats (unfortunately neither occurred).

[Smee]

Saw this and had to share 

 

17 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Technically it's only mandatory to turn up and get your name ticked off, not to actually vote. 

@Katzchen24 my favourite election moment was the 2007 one when Howard went out. I was in Sydney, and went to see Keating the Musical that night - pre-show and at intermission they were playing the election coverage and the audience was going off. After the show they turned the coverage off so everyone would actually leave - and about half the audience went to the pub across the road to watch there. The next day we went out for breakfast - in Howard's electorate, which he'd just lost. There were a lot of locals whinging about how stupid the electorate was, while other locals were walking around with the biggest grins. It was so hopeful, and best of all? It changed the whole vibe of the end of the musical - it had become another part of history, as the man who had defeated Keating was himself defeated. 

Also the pissed off Sydney matrons were hilarious. Heh.

I was living in Howard’s electorate in 2007, and it was the first year I could vote. So very very satisfying.

[Ozlsn]

Why these bushfires are not just business as usual

Spoiler

As the area burned across Australia this fire season pushes beyond five million hectares, an area larger than many countries, stories of destruction have become depressingly familiar.

At the time of writing, nine people have been killed. Balmoral, in the New South Wales southern highlands, is the latest community affected in a state where up to 1,000 homes have been destroyed. A third of the vineyard area and dozens of homes were razed in the Adelaide Hills. It is too early for a thorough examination of the impact on wildlife, including the many threatened species in the fires’ path.

Does this qualify as unprecedented? Plenty of experts say yes, but not all politicians and newspaper columnists are convinced. Last week the acting prime minister, Michael McCormack, assured the nation that “we’ve had these smoke hazes before. We’ve had bushfires before.” After returning from Hawaii, Scott Morrison, acknowledged the fires were severe, but also adopted a familiar line: Australia has always had bushfires.

That’s true. But a key question is whether it has always had bushfires like this.

Who says the bushfires are unprecedented?

The firefighting agency in the state worst affected, for starters.

The NSW Rural Fire Service says the scale of what has burned in that state is unprecedented at this point of the fire season. By Monday, 3.41 million hectares had burned. “To put it in perspective, in the past few years we have had a total area burned for the whole season of about 280,000 hectares,” RFS spokeswoman Angela Burford said.

A slightly larger area burned across the 1974 calendar year, but those fires were of an entirely different nature: fuelled by above-average rainfall, it burned through mostly remote outback grasslands in the state’s far west.

By comparison, this year’s fires are further east, where people live, and have been fuelled by a vast bank of dry fuel following the country’s record-breaking drought. Soil moisture is at historic lows in some areas, and rainfall in the first eight months of the year was the lowest on record in the northern tablelands and Queensland’s southern downs.

What do scientists say?

David Bowman, director of The Fire Centre at the University of Tasmania, says the most striking thing about this fire season is the continent-scale nature of the threat. The damage in each state is explained here.

“The geographic range, and the fact it is occurring all at once, is what makes it unprecedented,” Bowman says. “There has never been a situation where there has been a fire from southern Queensland, right through NSW, into Gippsland, in the Adelaide Hills, near Perth and on the east coast of Tasmania.”

He says one of the less explored issues, though it has begun to receive some attention in recent days, is the economic impact of having prolonged fires that affect so many Australians.

“You can’t properly run an economy when you get a third to a half of the population affected by smoke, and the media completely focused on fires,” he says. “I’m not quite certain why anybody would want to be claiming fires have been like this before. It’s concerning as it is a barrier to adaptation. To deal with these sort of fires the first step is to acknowledge the scale of the problem.”

Ross Bradstock, from the University of Wollongong’s Centre for Environmental Risk Management of Bushfires, points to the Gospers Mountain fire, which started in a lightning strike north-west of Sydney in late October and has now burned about 500,000 hectares, as evidence of how this season differs from what has come before.

The fire has now combined with others on the NSW Central Coast to create a mega-blaze, but Bradstock says it was almost certainly the largest single ignition-point forest fire recorded in Australia and, for mid-latitude forests, possibly the world. He says it is bigger than any in California and Mediterranean Europe. A large fire in those conditions is usually about 100,000 hectares.

“We can find no evidence of forest fires of that size anywhere,” he says. “You just don’t see fires of this size in these parts of the world because you do not usually get the extreme dryness and unrelenting nature of the weather.”

Two months in, Bradstock says the Gospers Mountain is a monster, “just unimaginably big” and near impossible to contain unless there is substantial rain.

Have the areas destroyed this year burned before?

Some certainly have, but this season has also seen the loss of rainforests, wet eucalypt forests, dried-out swamps and banana plantations that do not usually burn because they are too wet.

Damage to the Gondwana rainforests in 40 reserves between Brisbane and Newcastle prompted the Unesco world heritage centre to last month express their concern to Australian authorities. The reserves include the largest areas of subtropical rainforest on the planet, some warm temperate rainforest and nearly all the world’s Antarctic beech cool temperate rainforest. They are considered a living link to the vegetation that covered the southern supercontinent Gondwana before it broke up about 180m years ago.

There are also fears critically endangered Wollemi pines have burned in the fires tearing through the Blue Mountains. They were thought extinct until discovered by bushwalkers in 1994. Their whereabouts had been kept secret from the public to keep them safe.

What about the smoke?

Authorities say the smoke that has smothered Sydney, Canberra and other centres and towns in recent weeks has produced pollution up to 11 times greater than the hazardous level for human health. In Sydney, the air pollution has been hazardous for at least 30 days.

NSW’s director of environmental health, Richard Broome, last week told reporters the state was enduring “an unprecedented emergency from a smoke point of view”. “We haven’t seen conditions like this in Sydney, certainly in anyone’s memory that I’ve spoken to,” he said.

Broome said there is early evidence that the number of people turning up at hospital emergency departments needing help is higher than usual. Dr Kate Charlesworth, a fellow of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, said there was no safe level of air pollution, and that the most vulnerable in the community – babies, children, the elderly and people with pre-existing disease – were the most likely to be affected.

What role does climate change play?

The explanation should be familiar by now: greenhouse gas emissions do not cause bushfires, but they play a demonstrated role in increasing average and particularly extreme temperatures and contribute to the extraordinarily dry conditions afflicting eastern Australia.

Scientists cite the near absolute lack of moisture in the landscape as a key reason the fires have been so severe.

Multiple studies, here and overseas, have found the climate crisis is lengthening the fire season.

In the past, the season started in spring in NSW before moving south to Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania in the new year. Just as Australia’s fire season is more overlapping with that in California, making resource-sharing more difficult, it is also running simultaneously across the country.

Among other issues, that is putting greater strain on volunteer firefighting brigades. It is an issue that firefighters and some experts say the country needs to acknowledge and address. The Morrison government appeared to make an initial, qualified step in this direction on Christmas Eve.

Meanwhile Barnaby Joyce continues to prove he is an entitled freaking idiot, and that the voters in his electorate really screwed themselves over by electing him.

Spoiler

Barnaby Joyce says he is “sick of the government being in my life” as he urged Australians to respect God, otherwise “we’re going to get nailed”.

In a short video posted on social media late on Christmas Eve, the former National party leader is seen feeding cattle and reflecting on climate change, declaring that “new taxes” are not the way to address it.

“You’ve got to wonder what politicians do on Christmas Eve, well, when it’s drought, feed cattle,” Joyce says.

"Urged Australians to respect God".  This from the man who somewhat notoriously had an affair that produced at least one child (possibly two by now), who then threw his mistress under the bus twice by blaming things on her (a paid TV interview was one of them).  Tell me again, what was that commandment about adultery?

Also Barnaby - YOU ARE PART OF THE DAMN GOVERNMENT.  If you want out so bad, resign.  There'd be a lot of people applauding if you did.

Spoiler

“Now you don’t have to convince me the climate is not changing, it is changing,” he says.

“My problem has always been whether you believe new taxes are going to change it back.

“I just don’t want the government any more in my life, I am sick of the government being in my life.”

With the camera pointing to the sky, the former deputy prime minister urges Australians to respect God.

“There’s a higher authority that’s beyond our comprehension – right up there in the sky. And unless we understand that that’s got to be respected, then we’re just fools. We’re going to get nailed.”

Social media users commenting on the post were quick to point out that Joyce was a member of the government and that he was free to resign if he wanted it out of his life.

He's also so bloody incompetent that they're refusing to release the report he did and allegedly sent to the PM via text message.  I pity whichever staffer is spending their Christmas break period frantically ghost writing Barnaby's report to "prove" he did it, and that he's not just an incompetent fool.

[Katzchen24]

@Ozlsn I'm trying to think of something intelligent to reply back to you but my brain is frying in the current heat wave. Thanks for the links etc above.

The idea that Joyce texted a report to the PM is mind-boggling. I've always thought he's a buffoon, but this is ridiculous, even for him. 

I've been getting the Australian off and on (mostly for wrapping food scraps in!), and it's incredible how little negative press they're giving the Liberals in general, and ScoMo in particular. I'm particularly concerned by the prominence being given to Brian Houston and Hillsong Church.

In the meantime, volunteer firefighters are putting in a massive effort (Volunteer firefighters approaching 100 days ask for help) without pay - but ScoMo had to take a holiday because obviously the one he took in May was SUCH a long time ago.

The fire in the Adelaide Hills continues to burn. Over 80 houses lost and 1 person died (Bushfire battle continues over Christmas ahead of heatwave) so far and we're heading into even worse conditions for the next 3 days. ScoMo has had his photo op though. This man is a contemptible piece of sh!t. 

[Ozlsn]

59 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

I've been getting the Australian off and on (mostly for wrapping food scraps in!), and it's incredible how little negative press they're giving the Liberals in general, and ScoMo in particular

It's all the Murdoch press, not just The Australian. The Herald-Sun had a column by Terry McCann quoting Kipling and describing ScoMo as a level headed leader, and reports of a bushfire crisis as overblown hysteria. Notably I don't believe that piece made it into the Daily Telegraph or The Advertiser - I somehow think trying to gaslight Sydneysiders and Adelaidians while smoke still covers the city and fires are near might not work as well as in Melbourne. After all we only have smoke from fires burning to the north, south, east and west being blown here. 

Don't know if you saw the tweet from Russell Crowe, but it basically said "watch the gaslighting about how it wasn't as bad as we thought it was start" - if they dare to say that "only" 9 people (and hopefully no more) died rather than the death tolls we had in 2007 and 1983 I will scream. We learned, and we have also been very proactive about evacuating. And lucky. 

[GreyhoundFan]

I'm not very well-versed in Australian politics, since just consuming the crap here in the US is like drinking from a fire hose, but I've been reading a bit recently. Thanks for all the links that have been very informative.

I did see this video that was alternately funny and sad. I've not seen the ad it is parodying, but I'm guessing it is a typical tourist ad. This version is brutal.

 

[Katzchen24]

Now I know the government is just taking the p!ss. 

I can't access the full article through the paywall, but it's in the Daily Telegraph and looks pretty clear that the NSW EMERGENCY SERVICES MINISTER HAS GONE ON HOLIDAYS IN EUROPE. 

Spoiler

Are you kidding me? Do we have to nail these sods' feet to the ground to get them to behave responsibly and do their actual jobs?

[Ozlsn]

I get that cancelling holidays is a PITA but ffs here. This isn't a normal bushfire season.

[Someone Out There]

@GreyhoundFan That group do great videos.  There are several of them if your interested.

Personally I have less of an issue with the Emergency Services Minister going on holiday, he has at least announced it and stated what the acting arrangements are as opposed to trying to hide the fact like Morrison (though politically not a bright idea, there are also probably few periods of the year when politicians can actually take a decent period of time off).  Here is a non-paywalled version: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/nsw-emergency-services-minister-david-elliott-heads-on-holiday-mid-bushfire-season .  I do have an issue with how he appears to act.  The wikipedia controversies section is interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Elliott_(politician) .

The Murdoch press have been showing their bias for years though they claim to not be biased.

[Katzchen24]

22 hours ago, Someone Out There said:

@GreyhoundFan That group do great videos.  There are several of them if your interested.

Personally I have less of an issue with the Emergency Services Minister going on holiday, he has at least announced it and stated what the acting arrangements are as opposed to trying to hide the fact like Morrison (though politically not a bright idea, there are also probably few periods of the year when politicians can actually take a decent period of time off).  Here is a non-paywalled version: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/nsw-emergency-services-minister-david-elliott-heads-on-holiday-mid-bushfire-season .  I do have an issue with how he appears to act.  The wikipedia controversies section is interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Elliott_(politician) .

The Murdoch press have been showing their bias for years though they claim to not be biased.

I take your point and agree that Elliott has done things better than Morrison did. His behaviour (from that controversies link you posted) does not surprise me at all. Australian politics seems to me to be chock-full of entitled middle-aged white men. Ugh. 

On another note, please be safe today all of the Australian FJ-ers, particularly those in Victoria, NSW and SA but not excluding anywhere else that hasn't been as widely publicised.

Victoria braces for day of extreme fire danger

Catastrophic bushfire conditions thunderstorms forecast for SA

NSW fires BoM expects weather in Sydney to deteriorate

[Ozlsn]

All Australian states have hit temperatures over 40oC today

This is not normal. Where I am we also have high northerly winds (part of what is driving the high temperatures) which is of course great for fires. There are fires burning in pretty much every state and territory right now (OK, not the Antarctic territory, just the main ones).

We are fortunately expecting a cool change here overnight, hopefully with some rain. A lot of other places don't have that luxury. 2020 looks like being an "interesting" year, climactically speaking.

 

[adidas]

We got a text saying to prepare our home in case we need to evacuate. It’s a bit scary ? 

[adidas]

I should say - we’ve been ready for 3 months - depending on how much notice we get, we have a 5 minute plan, a 15 minute plan and a 30 minute plan, but I seriously doubt thatwe will have to leave. We’ve been packed and on notice once. 

[fraurosena]

5 hours ago, adidas said:

I should say - we’ve been ready for 3 months - depending on how much notice we get, we have a 5 minute plan, a 15 minute plan and a 30 minute plan, but I seriously doubt thatwe will have to leave. We’ve been packed and on notice once. 

Stay safe, @adidas! 

[Ozlsn]

@adidasI hope you are still safe at home. We had a fire get out of control 5km to the north of us - fortunately we only had smoke impact as the fire was moving on a diagonal front to us. Still got to watch Elvis making repeated runs across us. It was a weird day weatherwise, the winds were insane and now we have slightly random thunderstorms. I hope everyone is safe, and they can contain the ongoing fires. Two more killed near the NSW/Vic border.