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samurai_sarah

Josiah and Lauren 16: Just Another Young Fundie Couple

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JesSky03
6 hours ago, scoutsadie said:

Childfree-by-choice here (though quite a few of my friends have had babies, whom I've mostly enjoyed in small-to-medium doses, and have often gone out of my way to help with), and I've never heard of "back birth" before. 

Why is it so much more painful? (Serious question, not snark...I'm just kinda afraid to google it...)

I appreciate hearing birth stories; it's not something I ever want to experience firsthand, but it still interests me, and the resilience and strength of you mommas is amazing.

PS - totally unrelated, but seeing @mango_fandango's name reminded me: I was in Michael's craft store the other day, and next to the checkout line was a display of Beanie Babies. One was a wee guinea pig!! who was tri-colored, and I would have gotten a photo for you but my phone battery died!

It was really cute, though. If I knew of some way to get it to you without asking for your personal info, I would have! (I forget our other piggie lover here - will you please tag her?)

PPS - Sis @pook! For you, too! ^^

Basically baby's head is pushing on your spine causing intense back pain. To add to that, babies in that position are likely to result in longer labors(something about their head not fully engaging in the birth canal) so there is a higher likelihood of having interventions like forceps or vacuum delivery, and mom is more likely to to tear or require an episiotomy. The good news is something like 90% of babies will turn and be born in the preferred position, the bad news is my son was not one of them (and has a large head to boot) 😆

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WarriorJane

You wouldn't think childbirth could get more painful, but back labor just takes it up a level.  It's like you're in the most intense pain of your life and someone comes along and says "Now I'm going to hit you in the back with this sledgehammer about every 10 seconds.  "Okay?"

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Wine time!
Whooping_Butt

@squiddysquid Oh my, what a time for a spoiler tag fail! 😂

Thank you though! That’s fascinating, if terrifyingly illustrated. 😋

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Satisfied
scoutsadie

Gaaaaah - that's kinda horrifying!

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Sullie06

Sullie 1 was "sunny side up". 21 hours of labor was enough for me. Thank god the pushing only lasted 40 minutes. My epidural only half worked so it was a very odd feeling. My right side was numb completely, my left side not at all. With Sullie 2 I needed a CSection and the spinal worked great, first time with no issue. Epidurals are finicky. It's very much up to placement and even the doc. 

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allthegoodnamesrgone

@JMO, I think you hit the nail on the head, Lauren is a manipulator. She whines, and acts like a petulant child to get her way.  That little stunt at the marriage retreat. No way, If I was Josiah, I would have been pissed and ripped her a new ass. Someone needs to tell her to grow the F up, she CHOOSE to get married at 18 and have babies, she could have said no to the courtship, she had to know she wasn't compatible with Josiah after a few "getting to know you dates" You choose this Lauren, now put on your big girl pants and make it work. 

Edited by allthegoodnamesrgone
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tabitha2

What happened to the FJ mantra of Fundie girl being brainwashed into not having  all that much agency in courting? Are we not doing that with Lauren now? 
 

You can’t  very well say its all a Fundie girls choice, she obviously knew what she was getting into , she could have just said no and she just a manipulative big baby who needs to suck it up  on one hand and turn right around well say she is very sheltered, brainwashed to obey her parents, to see marriage as the only correct  Godly option, is trained to believe In God sending her her soul mate so she deserved some leeway and sympathy and deserves to be free. 
 

I just think this is an awful lot of Haterade poured on a relatively unworldly young woman of not yet 21. 

 


 


 

 

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Peaches-n-Beans
5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

@JMO, I think you hit the nail on the head, Lauren is a manipulator. She whines, and acts like a petulant child to get her way.  That little stunt at the marriage retreat. No way, If I was Josiah, I would have been pissed and ripped her a new ass. Someone needs to tell her to grow the F up, she CHOOSE to get married at 18 and have babies, she could have said no to the courtship, she had to know she wasn't compatible with Josiah after a few "getting to know you dates" You choose this Lauren, now put on your big girl pants and make it work. 

I mean I don't think she really did have a choice. She's a pawn in her parents "move up the fundie ladder" game. But if I was her spouse I'd be seriously done with this now. I really don't think it's in Josiah's nature to get that upset and "rip her a new ass" but I wonder if away from camera's he's a lot more angry with her then he is on camera. Given how Lauren acts on camera I can only assume she's much worse behind closed doors. 

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tabitha2

So I guess it just peachy and completely appropriate for a husband to sternly discipline and remind his wife who the lord and master is when she has been judged a horrible non compliant  Person who deserves it ;)  

You  go Josiah and Rip your women a new Ass. She has to learn her place right?  

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RainbowSky
On 12/11/2019 at 3:13 AM, squiddysquid said:

They definitely were not, a lot of what we do requires patients to be stark naked, that doesn't leave an impression on us. If staff are traumatized by people in their birth suits, they picked the wrong freaking job, cause that happens every 15 minutes. Srsly if somebody flashed me in a park i wouldn't even shrug my shoulders, business as usual.

Or maybe the don't want to be touched and looked at by random ass strangers no matter the random ass strangers feelings?

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moreorlessnu
19 hours ago, squiddysquid said:

Still it's like squeezing a melon through a garlic press - a lot of things can rip. Still a lot of taboo around it. A not that small number of mums end up with urinary/anal incontinence - yep, both...

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "Still a lot of taboo around it"?

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Waffle Time
JMO

I think both of them went naively into marriage believing that God has chosen them to be together. Then they were married and finally alone and the honeymoon wore off quickly. I would not doubt that they fight a lot. I would even bet they fought a lot at the retreat and that's why Lauren chose to stay in bed sick. Compare all this to John and Abbie in the recent episode.  Also newlyweds. She has terrible hyperemesis and would actually have all of the reasons to be crabby and lying down and skipping things but she has nothing but smiles and adoring eyes for John and agrees to be filmed not only on her couch but at the TTH.

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Wine time!
squiddysquid
1 hour ago, RainbowSky said:

Or maybe the don't want to be touched and looked at by random ass strangers no matter the random ass strangers feelings?

I was replying to @Iamtheway s post:

Quote

I feel bad now for the midwife and the nurses (for some reason my room was packed with people) they were all probably traumatized over the fat, naked lady.

Hey I don't even feel comfortable sitting next to strangers

59 minutes ago, moreorlessnu said:

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "Still a lot of taboo around it"?

permanent anal incontinence after birth

Edited by squiddysquid
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Scrappinmac
15 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Basically baby's head is pushing on your spine causing intense back pain. To add to that, babies in that position are likely to result in longer labors(something about their head not fully engaging in the birth canal) so there is a higher likelihood of having interventions like forceps or vacuum delivery, and mom is more likely to to tear or require an episiotomy. The good news is something like 90% of babies will turn and be born in the preferred position, the bad news is my son was not one of them (and has a large head to boot) 😆

Yep- I had 37 hours of back labor with DD#1 and 23 hours of back labor with DD#2. DD#1 needed 3 hours of pushing and finally forceps and stitches, while #2 was like 10 minutes of pushing.  The epidural with DD#1 didn't work very well, so I didn't bother with one for #2.

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Cheetah

Josiah and Lauren both, from the little I've seen of them, strike me as people who need to be the dominant one/ center of attention in the relationship.  If they'd had a longer time to date they would have figured this out but since they never got past that stage where everything is new and everyone is on their best 'new relationship' behavior before they were married they both seem to be stuck with someone who needs to be the needy one. 

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Giraffe
15 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

Josiah and Lauren both, from the little I've seen of them, strike me as people who need to be the dominant one/ center of attention in the relationship.  If they'd had a longer time to date they would have figured this out but since they never got past that stage where everything is new and everyone is on their best 'new relationship' behavior before they were married they both seem to be stuck with someone who needs to be the needy one. 

I saw a lot of what my older siblings went through with dating & marriage and consciously made different choices, even before I left fundamentalism. I can see the younger kids doing the same thing because of the couples like Lauren & Si. They’ll either marry after a long time of real one-on-one dating (with no accountability partners* overseeing any texts or emails, either) or not marry at all. 
 

* I misspelled it initially and my phone suggested “probers.” Not what I was going for but certainly accurate!

Edited by Giraffe
Missed a word

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Dandruff

I can imagine, within a year or two, that a smiling teenager from a Duggar leghumping family will come to help out at the Sirens.  The teen will provide adoring company and domestic help for Lauren while Josiah spends lots of time working and otherwise not being home.  When together, they'll do their best to get along and be kind to each other.  Their children will have two loving parents.  Appearances will be maintained.

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AprilQuilt
On 12/11/2019 at 10:06 PM, squiddysquid said:

She faked migraines before to get out of a fucking game laying down smiling on the sofa right there in the light noisy room - having migraines myself - nope never going to happen

You didn't watch the episode very carefully. She didn't lie about having a migraine in order to get out of the task, in the talking heads she admitted she was suffering from morning sickness. Either she was still keeping her Bella pregnancy quiet from the family, or more likely the cameras. Josiah will have known that and supported her in it; most likely the other couples did too which is why it was such a slim charade and she was allowed to just bail.

It's not revealing of some deep-down mendacity in her character, or a lack of commitment to the counselling weekend. She was genuinely feeling like crap. I'm sure most women in the first trimester have told similar white lies; I know I have.

Edited by AprilQuilt

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Chewing Gum

@scoutsadie, i think @squiddysquid explained it well. I'd just like to add that with contractions on the front/belly, you can do much more about natural pain relief  than with back labor. With normal contractions most woman like to be in a hanging position as it creates more relaxation (something you can't do on your back), and in a later stage, apply counter-pressure through breathing and using your muscles in the abdomen at the same time (breath in = relax them,  breath out = tighten them (sorry, bad English)). That's why you saw Josiah press his fists hard in her back, it is the only thing that works as counter pressure for the contractions. Mind you, he would have had to do that for hours and hours in an unnatural position, pressing harder and lower as contractions got harder. I was glad to see he understood what he had to do, I think they went to birth classes so I'm happy for Lauren. Nothing worse with back labor than having a partner who doesn't know what to do. He was wonderful. 

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fluffernutter

Was it her dad leading that retreat? Maybe she's off due to that? Like for example- one of my kids always acted bratty and show-offy when I would be in her classroom or chaperoning a field trip. Anyone else ever see that type of behavior? Granted Lauren's an adult. Barely.

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mollysmom
10 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Was it her dad leading that retreat? Maybe she's off due to that? Like for example- one of my kids always acted bratty and show-offy when I would be in her classroom or chaperoning a field trip. Anyone else ever see that type of behavior? Granted Lauren's an adult. Barely.

It was Kendra's dad. (Joe's wife's dad)

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apandaaries
6 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

@scoutsadie, i think @squiddysquid explained it well. I'd just like to add that with contractions on the front/belly, you can do much more about natural pain relief  than with back labor. With normal contractions most woman like to be in a hanging position as it creates more relaxation (something you can't do on your back), and in a later stage, apply counter-pressure through breathing and using your muscles in the abdomen at the same time (breath in = relax them,  breath out = tighten them (sorry, bad English)). That's why you saw Josiah press his fists hard in her back, it is the only thing that works as counter pressure for the contractions. Mind you, he would have had to do that for hours and hours in an unnatural position, pressing harder and lower as contractions got harder. I was glad to see he understood what he had to do, I think they went to birth classes so I'm happy for Lauren. Nothing worse with back labor than having a partner who doesn't know what to do. He was wonderful. 

Haven’t seen the episode, but it sounds like he’s doing the right thing. During my back labor, my mom pushed on my back while I dug my nails into my ex’s hands and arms and breathed with him. It was a special kind of hellish pain. But I was glad they were there with me and she arrived, eventually, in a healthy fashion.

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fluffernutter
16 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

It was Kendra's dad. (Joe's wife's dad)

Ahhh ok. Well, there goes my theory. 🤷‍♀️

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Dizzy
EyesOpen

I had to have a nurse put her hand/ fist up t o stop my daughter from coming. I had a 90% abruption. Thank God I was at a hospital. I would have died at home and so would she. Every year we give thanks for the doctor and many nurses who saved our lives.

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AridityOfHeaven

Back in my bed, early hours on a Sunday morning, resuming FJ, after hugging my 19yo daughter as she miscarried.

The Duggars are meaningful to me because watching their show was part of my eventual exit from fundieism. My daughter and I were partial to young Josiah and I am dismayed at how growing up has gone for him. I'm not a Lauren fan and I didn't care for her insistence that they were parents during her first miscarriage.

I don't have personal experience with miscarriage, this was my first. Now I understand a lot better why she felt that way and I feel a lot more grace about it.

My daughter was told, at a crisis pregnancy center, that she was 11 weeks based on LMP. Last night, at the ER, they said her HCG was at the level of 6weeks and she was likely miscarrying. 

What I want to say is that for the six weeks or so that she was pregnant, she and her boyfriend became a family. He moved into our home, which only happened bc she was pregnant. They had known each other in high school but had only been dating a  month when she became pregnant. It was just so easy to accept the boyfriend as family.

So I feel like I understand Lauren a lot better. Of course being pregnant for a short time isn't the same as raising a child, but my daughter and her boyfriend were convinced it was a girl. I think they were just deciding to call her Chanel. I was advocating for her to be named Cooper and they listened politely but it was going be Chanel.

 

For those six weeks, they were a family, and now they are not. It's a strange feeling that hearing "I'm pregnant" changes the whole mode of life and then all that life is gone. I cannot even begin to imagine the grief of Joy and Austin, but I did want to speak up a little bit for Lauren. 

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