Josiah and Lauren 16: Just Another Young Fundie Couple

[squiddysquid]

Well you inevitably have to get naked during some point of the birthing process...

Even fundies have to - hell, Anna Duggar was filmed giving birth on a toilet - I challenge you to top that!

But srsly just the pre surgery process - you can't be more exposed than that - luckily in that case we can knock people out.

Bare chest for the 12 ECG, than the catheter insertion - which in males requires firmly holding the penis up with one hand at 90° - so honestly we are used to it.

[Pancakes@Tiffany's]

13 hours ago, VBOY9977 said:

Or Something along those lines. 

Thank you for the reply, this sounds complicated for me, but I'm going to give it a try. Thanks again! 

[Meggo]

17 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

It is a biological impossibility for me to be pregnant, that being said I’d rather listen to Alvin and the Chipmunks cranked up to 11 before I’d allow my MIL at my birth. I don’t want to sit next to her at thanksgiving let alone have her looking at my lady parts

I'm the opposite. My MIL is the sweetest most unobtrusive lady. She treats ALL her kids and her adult grandkids as grown ups. She would be a lovely person to be there - but she never would - that would be presuming too much on her end - to be at her DIL's side for a birth. 

MY mother - would be a nightmare. She thinks we all still need active parenting (I'm her youngest - I'm 46) and would tell me I was making too much noise and would be completely uncomfortable and embarrassed by the whole thing. 
And she takes over things. So - pass.

(when we adopted our son - he was in the NICU for a month - we could have had the grandma's go visit him - and we did sign the paperwork for it - but never told them. Because we knew my mom would MOVE IN to the NICU and claim his as hers. She even said once when he got home "I don't know why he settles for you and not me..." because I'm the MOM....) 

[Not that josh's mom]

Just in case some poor gal thinks all deliveries are hellish -        I'm so old that I was asked if I wanted my husband in delivery with me. Good God, NO! I honestly don't remember him with me much in labor. But my son was born exactly four hours after I checked into the hospital after only a couple hours of contractions at home. An ounce shy of 8 pounds. No problems with pregnancy or delivery. Sometimes it is easy.

[FluffySnowball]

18 hours ago, mollysmom said:

So if Lauren had 2 epidurals and neither one took what would happen if she had to have a c-section? Don't they use an epidural to numb you for that?

As far as I’m aware, they’d use general anesthesia in such a case. 

ETA: I just noticed some people have already answered... 

Edited December 11, 2019 by FluffySnowball

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 12/10/2019 at 11:00 AM, fluffernutter said:

Some women like to be touched in labor, and some don't. I myself wanted a 3 foot bubble around me that no one could enter. So in the throes of my last birth, my husband kept trying to pat my shoulder. That pat was making my pain 8 zillion times worse and I kept saying "Don't touch me." After about the 10th pat I slapped him. Right across the face. It wasn't intentional. Much. ?

I remember kicking someone towards the end of my labor, I think it was my MIL, she's had 6 kids so she wouldn't have been offended. I also tore off the blood pressure cuff and threw it at the stupid little nurse who didn't know what she was doing. Screaming as I did it and yelled at my sister to SHUT THAT FUCKING PHONE OFF BEFORE I RIP IT OUT OF THE WALL. 

In my defense I'd only had a 2 hour nap in 40 hours, I got up at 6 am that morning to go to work, worked all day,  went shopping came home had diner, and as we were getting ready for bed is when i realized my water broke. . I'd been laboring on pitocin for 22 of those hours pushing for and 4 HOURS and I'd had only 2 hours of pain relief, hence the 2 hour nap. 

My water broke at 36 weeks and I wasn't contracting, dilated or effaced at all so they started me on pitocin about an hour after I got to the hospital.  

[nvmbr02]

I hated being touched or having any one near me while I was laboring. I think I would have been happiest giving birth in a dark room completely unassisted. I don't feel that is safe however so I gave birth in a hospital room, with as much of the lights off as they would allow when I had the option.  Three births, the first with a epidural, the second two were unmedicated. My first and third were sunny side up and I had back labor with both of them. My last baby was the hardest labor of the three, several days of  early labor. Or perhaps it was prodromal labor though it never stopped, was just very slow but consistent. My second was a breeze, about 4 hours of labor. My son was born just 20 mins after we made it to the hospital. An ER nurse delivered in the ER. At night you could only go to L&D through the ER since the hospital was closed. I made it to the ER entry and realized the baby was coming quickly and I couldn't walk any further. They called for a wheelchair but I only made it behind the curtained area. I am thankful we only lived a couple of blocks from the hospital or he would have been born in the car. ? 

Oh, and I would have been okay with my MIL in the delivery room had she wanted to be there. She tends to keep to herself. My mother on the other hand would have been a disaster. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by nvmbr02

[Mama Mia]

9 hours ago, squiddysquid said:

They definitely were not, a lot of what we do requires patients to be stark naked, that doesn't leave an impression on us. If staff are traumatized by people in their birth suits, they picked the wrong freaking job, cause that happens every 15 minutes. Srsly if somebody flashed me in a park i wouldn't even shrug my shoulders, business as usual.

We have An ER nurse in the family - she will post the most gruesome, detailed, graphic no holds barred photos and descriptions on social media of any of her or her kids mishaps, illnesses, injuries, surgeries, etc. -  but when she had her baby, she had on full make-up, nice nightie, mani-pedi for the photos from the hospital bed ? 

14 hours ago, squiddysquid said:

Going to the hospital earlier than a whole fucking day and getting your analgesics in a timely manner helps...

Though by the way the doc said "I don't know why your epidural isn't working and lets wait before the 2nd one." Tells me he thought she might have been exaggertating. Don't get me wrong, having a sunny side up baby sounds like hell, but Lauren is def the malingering type. (don't even get me started on the undiagnosed gluten free crowd).

Do they give opiods to labouring women in the US? I know the do in Australia (and give the babies meds to counter side effects like breathing depression - still freaks me the fuck out - Nobody in Europe would even think of doing that). She seemed really loopy/swaying/out of it - don't know how to exactly descirbe that in English- I know she kinda always speaks like that and she has been up for 2 days - it just seemed weird.

Ew... why would you want to shame a woman for the way she acts in labor? 
FYI- some labors are long. Some start and stop. Suggesting she is “malingering” or exaggerating her pain is gross. They generally won’t do an epidural early in labor anyway.  Some people don’t respond well to epidurals. Some don’t respond to them sometimes but will another. That’s normal. Same with any other medication. She knows her body. 

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, nvmbr02 said:

I hated being touched or having any one near me while I was laboring. I think I would have been happiest giving birth in a dark room completely unassisted. I don't feel that is safe however so I gave birth in a hospital room, with as much of the lights off as they would allow when I had the option.  Three births, the first with a epidural, the second two were unmedicated. My first and third were sunny side up and I had back labor with both of them. My last baby was the hardest labor of the three, several days of  early labor. Or perhaps it was prodromal labor though it never stopped, was just very slow but consistent. My second was a breeze, about 4 hours of labor. My son was born just 20 mins after we made it to the hospital. An ER nurse delivered in the ER. At night you could only go to L&D through the ER since the hospital was closed. I made it to the ER entry and realized the baby was coming quickly and I couldn't walk any further. They called for a wheelchair but I only made it behind the curtained area. I am thankful we only lived a couple of blocks from the hospital or he would have been born in the car. ? 

Oh, and I would have been okay with my MIL in the delivery room had she wanted to be there. She tends to keep to herself. My mother on the other hand would have been a disaster. 

I had 5 people there including DH, I didn't realize just how many people were there until they turned my epidural back on to take me in for my c/section. I do recall my MIL being very helpful and calming, like I said she has 6 kids all natural births, so she understood. DH said she was nice for him because he was getting upset when I pushed everyone away to be left alone, told him it was normal don't freak out.  But I was in labor so long I believe my parents, sister & MIL came and went leaving only 1 or 2 people besides DH in the room.

MIL did get a little rowdy with the OB when he came strolling in telling me that "since I was behaving like a spoiled brat in need of a nap, he'd do a c/section," I still remember this 22 years later.  Ever see a gray haired woman crawl over a hospital bed to punch a doctor?  And yes that fucker was reprimanded, he was an asshole to everyone not just me.  Jerk was standing next to the charge nurse when he said it too, I've never seen a nurse drag a doctor out of a hospital room by his tie. LOL! The charge nurse reported him as did I, our reports were his last chance. and he got an 8 week suspension and some retraining on his bedside manner. 

[nvmbr02]

@allthegoodnamesrgone It sounds like a good thing your MIL was there to advocate for you! The doctor absolutely deserved to be reprimanded. 

For my first birth I had the OB, a nurse and a nurses aid along with 2 nurses for the baby, my husband, my husband's best friend and his wife in the room. Originally, it was supposed to be the friend's wife who was almost done with Doula training and interested in being a midwife. She volunteered with the clinic (it was an overseas military clinic) and knew my OB well and asked me if she could be present. She actually ended up "catching" my daughter. It was her first delivery. We aren't super close but we are friendly with each other. Her husband is one of my husbands closest friends and while I consider him a friend now he isn't someone I planned on being in the room. It ended up fine, he took some great pictures and video after the birth when the rest of us were too caught up in emotion or busy. And he stayed up near my shoulders so hopefully didn't get too much of a show. He had come to the hospital to drop stuff off and was visiting with us since I had the epidural and was feeling pretty comfortable. Next thing I knew I was pushing and he was still there. ? 

With my second, it was just my husband and one nurse. And a packed ER on the other side of the curtain.  With my third, it was just myself, my husband, one nurse and my OB for the actual birth. The had called for an additional nurse but she didn't make it up to the room before the baby was born. My daughter had difficulty breathing after birth though so the room was pretty filled with people within minutes of me having her. 

[squiddysquid]

4 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

We have An ER nurse in the family - she will post the most gruesome, detailed, graphic no holds barred photos and descriptions on social media of any of her or her kids mishaps, illnesses, injuries, surgeries, etc. -  but when she had her baby, she had on full make-up, nice nightie, mani-pedi for the photos from the hospital bed ? 

Ew... why would you want to shame a woman for the way she acts in labor? 
FYI- some labors are long. Some start and stop. Suggesting she is “malingering” or exaggerating her pain is gross. They generally won’t do an epidural early in labor anyway.  Some people don’t respond well to epidurals. Some don’t respond to them sometimes but will another. That’s normal. Same with any other medication. She knows her body. 

 

Because 24h without monitoring is not advised, I'm a doctor, you would check for fetal distress (or things like breech position as in Joy who Jill and her "midwive" let Labour for 10 hours and  didn't even notice) a long time before that. FYI if you wait too long you can't do an Epidural anymore

The Anaesthesiologist did test her, pricking her arm and then her legs and asked her if she feels any difference. She said "a little" now epidurals are pretty much hit or miss - either you hit the spot or you didn't - dermatomes are a wonderful thing. That's why he didn't do a new one straight away.

You could also give other pain medication before that (they said they gave her a muscle relaxant though I wonder what kind) . Of course her body was already cramped up and labouring for a day without help def isn't advised and of course fucking painful.

She faked migraines before to get out of a fucking game laying down smiling on the sofa right there in the light noisy room - having migraines myself - nope never going to happen

And of course the Duggars have an awful track record for going to the hospital only when shit hits the fan. In Jessas birth episode like Jill she used castor oil to speed up labour. That's a a dangerous old wive's tale - it stresses the baby out and they pass meconium like it happened in Jill's case. Meconium aspiration can lead to life threatening respiratory infections.

Now with pain management you always treat on the side of caution, generally they way the patient subjectively experiences it determines the treatment. Unless the patient is obviously faking - a few choice questions about pain quality exact site radiation of the pain can often tell you.

Graphic added; spinal vs epidural

Edited December 11, 2019 by squiddysquid
Ah yes, then there is her undiagnosed gluten issue - I feel comfortable calling her the malingering type.

[fluffernutter]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:53 PM, Dandruff said:

Did he stop?

Oh yeah. He stopped. ?

[Satan'sFortress]

9 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

Just in case some poor gal thinks all deliveries are hellish -        I'm so old that I was asked if I wanted my husband in delivery with me. Good God, NO! I honestly don't remember him with me much in labor. But my son was born exactly four hours after I checked into the hospital after only a couple hours of contractions at home. An ounce shy of 8 pounds. No problems with pregnancy or delivery. Sometimes it is easy.

I also had an easy delivery---my second baby was a 4 hour labor, unmedicated.  Intense but somehow not painful. He was just short of 9 lbs.  Hubby was there, but honestly, I kind of wish he weren't    The midwives & nurses were just so good I was digging the all women vibe.

My first labor was more like Lauren's, though, so I've gone both ways! 

[Mama Mia]

8 hours ago, squiddysquid said:

Because 24h without monitoring is not advised, I'm a doctor, you would check for fetal distress (or things like breech position as in Joy who Jill and her "midwive" let Labour for 10 hours and  didn't even notice) a long time before that. FYI if you wait too long you can't do an Epidural anymore

The Anaesthesiologist did test her, pricking her arm and then her legs and asked her if she feels any difference. She said "a little" now epidurals are pretty much hit or miss - either you hit the spot or you didn't - dermatomes are a wonderful thing. That's why he didn't do a new one straight away.

You could also give other pain medication before that (they said they gave her a muscle relaxant though I wonder what kind) . Of course her body was already cramped up and labouring for a day without help def isn't advised and of course fucking painful.

She faked migraines before to get out of a fucking game laying down smiling on the sofa right there in the light noisy room - having migraines myself - nope never going to happen

And of course the Duggars have an awful track record for going to the hospital only when shit hits the fan. In Jessas birth episode like Jill she used castor oil to speed up labour. That's a a dangerous old wive's tale - it stresses the baby out and they pass meconium like it happened in Jill's case. Meconium aspiration can lead to life threatening respiratory infections.

Now with pain management you always treat on the side of caution, generally they way the patient subjectively experiences it determines the treatment. Unless the patient is obviously faking - a few choice questions about pain quality exact site radiation of the pain can often tell you.

Graphic added; spinal vs epidural

 

Never mind. Not worth the aggravation. Thank God Patients have review sites now so they know who to avoid.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Mama Mia

[mango_fandango]

I haven’t given birth ever, but my mother has. Her first birth was me, I was sunny side up/spine-to-spine... She had pethidine. I’m not sure about her labour with my brother, she may have had the same. My cousin was born in something like four hours, I assume that’s active labour. He also required both forceps and a ventouse. His younger brother was induced. 

I would like kids in the future, and can imagine myself getting an epidural (period pain sucks enough and my periods aren’t even that bad...) although obviously I’ll wait till I actually get pregnant (which won’t be for a long time since I’m currently single!!) and see how that progresses before making any definite decisions. Basically, I’m open to anything. 

[DuggarJudger]

I didn't watch Lauren/Bella's birth and I most likely won't.  I came here to bitch about her behavior at Jessa/Ivy's birth. 

I get she had a miscarriage and figured the due date to be around Jessa's, but she made that moment all about her and her loss. Crying while she held Ivy and talking about her loss. If she couldn't handle it she should have left the room, but that would have stolen her moment. 

I think the whole family has issues, they have horrible beliefs that are damaging to others. But some members of the family are more tolerable than others and sometimes I am even happy for them. Lauren and Siah are now on the same level with DimBulb, J'chelle, and Molester. 

Oh, as for J'chelle being at all grandbaby births, I'm sure it is made quite clear to all daughters and daughters in law that J'chelle and film crew are to allowed in that room or risk being punished in some way. When Jessa went into labor early the first thing Ben did was text J'chelle and Jana to tell them to get back. Why? Its Jess's 3rd and it's the 13th or 14th grandchild! J'chelle is still addicted to babies! Jinger has it right, get far away from them. I'm sure Anna loved being in DC far away from them.

[Chewing Gum]

I just watched the birth episodes on YouTube and have to say Lauren did so amazing... as did Josiah, the way he supported her. As much as I dislike Lauren for various reasons, that birth was no joke, having back labor for so long. I have nothing but a whole lot of respect for her, for the way she handled that birth. 

[SassyPants]

A couple of things about Lauren’s birth episode:

1) I’m glad that L and J left her parents noisy home when L was in early labor. Why would you leave your quiet home to go into chaos? Stairs, treadmill or company, or NOT, I’d have stayed in my quiet domain. 

2) I had Lauren’s exact labor scenario with my first, with the exception of my baby being unable to tolerate the high doses of Pitocin, necessitating a c-section at the the 30 hour mark. 

3) Lauren was fortunate that her baby was on the smaller size.

4) Lauren was very unfortunate in the fact that none of the pain remedies, including multiple epidurals and IV meds, seemed to relieve her pain.  I just can’t imagine not getting any relief-

Edited December 12, 2019 by SassyPants

[xenobia]

4 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

I just watched the birth episodes on YouTube and have to say Lauren did so amazing... as did Josiah, the way he supported her. As much as I dislike Lauren for various reasons, that birth was no joke, having back labor for so long. I have nothing but a whole lot of respect for her, for the way she handled that birth. 

I just watched it as well, and I really can't snark about anything. Not even Josiah. It seems like he did a great job at supporting her during the whole process, to my big surprise. 

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, xenobia said:

I just watched it as well, and I really can't snark about anything. Not even Josiah. It seems like he did a great job at supporting her during the whole process, to my big surprise. 

And Lauren was really tolerant of his attention. I don’t think my husband touched me when I was in labor...he knew who he was dealing with. In fact, I think the only thing I said during those hours was, “I’ll take that epidural now.” 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I didn't watch Lauren's birth episode, and won't, can't stand her but it sounds like she had a baby and didn't turn into a raging psycho, so good for her?  

I can attest to the back labor sucking big fat dicks, i had pitocen induced labor and a sunny side up baby. UGH. Thank Rufus #2 was a scheduled c/section. 

An old friend of mine had issues with her epidural when she had her son, she said it only worked on one side of her body. she later found out she has a mild case of scoliosis in her lower back, that was never diagnosed, until she started seeing a chiropractor for back pain after her son was born.  They don't always work. 

[JMO]

I've been thinking about weighing in.  I have worked/do work in a hospital with newborns and I've had two kids so I have an opinion.  I truly dislike Lauren and think that she's a whiner who learned as a child to use her complaints to get extra attention and special treatment.  That being said.... her labor looked like it sucked and I'm glad that she and baby were fine.  The extra people/attention/touching/talking from everyone during labor (Michelle/Lana/Josiah/Jill) would have driven me batshit but it seemed to help her.  And Josiah was really attentive.  The endless in her face talking and kisses would have sent me over the edge but again to each her own.  I do think that there is something manipulative about her and her complaints.  The lying down at the retreat and then not coming to the vow renewal the next day was bullshit and she admitted it (at least for the nest exersize).  She took advantage of being pregnant to escape from a fight with Josiah rather than being an adult and working through it.  She's going to be doing that for the next 30 yrs if they stay together. 

[scoutsadie]

Childfree-by-choice here (though quite a few of my friends have had babies, whom I've mostly enjoyed in small-to-medium doses, and have often gone out of my way to help with), and I've never heard of "back birth" before. 

Why is it so much more painful? (Serious question, not snark...I'm just kinda afraid to google it...)

I appreciate hearing birth stories; it's not something I ever want to experience firsthand, but it still interests me, and the resilience and strength of you mommas is amazing.

PS - totally unrelated, but seeing @mango_fandango's name reminded me: I was in Michael's craft store the other day, and next to the checkout line was a display of Beanie Babies. One was a wee guinea pig!! who was tri-colored, and I would have gotten a photo for you but my phone battery died!

It was really cute, though. If I knew of some way to get it to you without asking for your personal info, I would have! (I forget our other piggie lover here - will you please tag her?)

PPS - Sis @pook! For you, too! ^^

Edited December 13, 2019 by scoutsadie
postscript to postscript

[squiddysquid]

Long story short; it fucks up that choreography nature designed to squeeze babies out; They do a lot of twisting and turning in the birth canal, head first, than develop one shoulder, than the other. If it is a small preemie they might do the hamburger grip baby bent, hands and feet toghether- gahhh! If it is breech / feet first and you can't do a C-section and want to get the shoulders unstuck, you might rotate the baby slowly while doing a up and down movement...

(a friend of mine is training to be a OBS/GYN - she had a scheduled C-section... - which isn't a walk in the park either. Consultant quote : "One of the bloodiest surgeries" - I assisted on one where the blood suddenly started squirting out like in a Tarantino movie - scary shit - so vaginal/C-section - pick your poison...)

Still it's like squeezing a melon through a garlic press - a lot of things can rip. Still a lot of taboo around it. A not that small number of mums end up with urinary/anal incontinence - yep, both...

A picture I always like to show those home birth advocates, is the ultima ratio when a kid gets stuck. The medic pushing their fist through your holy place holding the baby's head up - rolling your bed into surgery like that, keeping the position until the C-section is done -

Obviously that can't take more than a few minutes, a home hospital transfer would end in death - one of many scenarios where a ambulance transfer will be too late.

They also might put their fist up there if the Uterus inverts or there is severe postpartum bleeding - again you have a few minutes to get into the operating theatre in order for the mum to survive.

(Johnson Maneuver for those brave enough to google... the very graphic graphic is under the SPOILER.)

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

)

Edited December 13, 2019 by squiddysquid
Punctuation

[squiddysquid]

For those of you who were brave enough to look under the spoiler:

Soon after posting this, I saw this picture on an English exam website...  Oh deer ?