Josiah and Lauren 16: Just Another Young Fundie Couple

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I don’t think she specifically meant calling out people’s grammar mistakes ratchets up the anxiety, I think she meant calling out people’s mistakes in general. 
 

My point stands that she can't possibly state definitively anything about the ~ 8 million adults with ADHD.  We don't have a spokesperson.

Edited January 28, 2020 by HerNameIsBuffy

[fraurosena]

I can't stand grammar, spelling, syntax or any other linguistic mistakes. They just grate my innards when I read them. But hey, that's my problem. As long as I can understand the meaning, I won't start correcting people. Typo's, riffles, and honest mistakes happen to everyone. Why be difficult about it?

However, somebody who is shilling their stuff and/or religion on social media and who doesn't take the trouble to proof read is fair game. 

[mango_fandango]

51 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My point stands that she can't possibly state definitively anything about the ~ 8 million adults with ADHD.  We don't have a spokesperson.

Fair enough - I have ADHD too as a matter of fact. Just like with ASD (it also me), not everyone with ADHD is the same. 

[bal maiden]

3 hours ago, llg1234 said:

 

What is concerning is that Lauren is (most likely) going to be homeschooling her child(ren). If she's going to be their math, science (lol), English, etc. teacher she should have a good grasp on these subjects. It's okay to have weaknesses, but it's also important to be able to recognize them. I think that's wehre some of the concern comes from when people correct these fundies' grammar. Do they know their own limitations? Probably not, and their kids will suffer because of that.

I'm bad at spelling and grammar, but I'm not attempting to teach these skills to anyone. 

QFT. For those who are taking criticism of fundies’ poor grammar personally, the issue here is that they consistently fuck up on these things, yet will be their kids’ primary (perhaps sole) educator. Not that people in general make typos and mistakes. If my kids’ schoolteachers were making similar errors, I would also be concerned. 

[church_of_dog]

I was raised by the grammar police -- my dad had a proofreader brain and he passed it on to me -- not just the ability to notice mistakes but the belief that details matter.  Dad used to audibly cringe when I was a kid and visiting friends would said "let's play X instead; it's funner!"  And his entire life he snarked on used car ads that claim "runs good!"

But honestly, FJ has been one primary factor in teaching me to relax about it, due to the large number of non-native English speakers here, most of whom have impressive language skills!  So minor mistakes seem extra minor and not a concern, as long as the meaning is clear.

Also my attitude has been forced to chill in recent years by the appearance of thumb typing, not to mention autocorrect as a thing.

I do get, however, that concern over fundie SODRT education causes us to home in, out of sincere concern, on fundie language mistakes, and I think it's a valid concern.

It's just that going off only the occasional social media post, there is no way for us to say whether the errors we see are poor education or just frazzled parent combined with tiny phone keyboard and autocorrect etc.

And that's all I have to say about that. 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

I don’t think she specifically meant calling out people’s grammar mistakes ratchets up the anxiety, I think she meant calling out people’s mistakes in general. 
 

But that poster certainly doesn't hesitate to call out others' mistakes, including making fun of another poster for not realizing there was more than one Instagram photo in a post. So her argument falls a bit flat. 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

 It is BEC and it can make others feel bad about themselves. But hey, you do you princess perfect. 

Yeah, wouldn't want people to feel bad about themselves. Unlike calling people Nazis and princess perfect, and giving the "fuck you" reaction. Self-awareness really is not your strong suit, is it?

Also, I have ADD and work as a professional editor. So yeah, you definitely don't speak for the entire ADD/ADHD community. 

[feministxtian]

I've made posts on here that were probably grammar/spelling/coherency nightmares. Honest to God I've written professionally! Here though, I feel it's more informal and most of the time my posts are knee jerk reactions and brain dumps. I'm not getting paid enough to proofread everything I post on here or on FB. 

[Eponine]

Calling out grammar and spelling mistakes on a casual forum is one thing and probably BEC. But to me, when a public figure - and more importantly, someone who wants to be a public figure, like Lauren - is consistently making those mistakes, it's fair game. It's also relevant to what we discuss here, as others have said. This woman is planning to homeschool her (probably numerous) children and AFAIK we have never seen any evidence that the Duggar clan seeks out educational help with subjects they aren't familiar with/aren't good at. Lauren's mistakes don't seem to me like the result of careless typing or slang usage, they look like evidence that she doesn't understand the concepts.

My side-side gig entails a lot of proofreading, particularly of things written by non-native English speakers, so my brain pings a lot on all kinds of errors. On forums like this, as long as I can understand what's being said, I don't care at all. When it's on someone's public-facing or professional platform it bugs the shit out of me.

[WarriorJane]

What bothers me about this caption is that it doesn't hit the ear right.   Even if she struggles with spelling and grammar, she should realize it just sounds wrong. 

[Not that josh's mom]

I had a supervisor who said two things consistently that bothered me. "This here one" and when telling me to do something, he said "I'm going to let you do this". Why not just say "this one", and "do this, please"? Both grated on my nerves. My grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't perfect by any means, but I do love finding errors in novels that should have never made it though a proofreader.

[libgirl2]

What bugs me.... I work at a library, not a libarry. And I ask you a question, not axe you a question. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

What bugs me.... I work at a library, not a libarry. And I ask you a question, not axe you a question. 

When it comes to the "ask" "axe" this can be a sign of speech apraxia,  One of my sons has this along with another speech impediment and if he's tired and not focused on self correcting it's more apparent.  

He can self correct as an adult because of an entire childhood of speech therapy.  As a kid no matter how hard he tried it was "axe" and his th sounds all came out as fs.

Just throwing it out there as those can be remnants of treated speech impediments and not always due to not knowing the correct pronunciation.

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by HerNameIsBuffy

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

When it comes to the "ask" "axe" this can be a sign of speech apraxia,  One of my sons has this along with another speech impediment and if he's tired and not focused on self correcting it's more apparent.  

He can self correct as an adult because of an entire childhood of speech therapy.  As a kid no matter how hard he tried it was "axe" and his th sounds all came out as fs.

Just throwing it out there as those can be remnants of treated speech impediments and not always due to not knowing the correct pronunciation.

 

Thank you, I was unaware of that. 

[seraaa]

27 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

When it comes to the "ask" "axe" this can be a sign of speech apraxia,  One of my sons has this along with another speech impediment and if he's tired and not focused on self correcting it's more apparent.  

He can self correct as an adult because of an entire childhood of speech therapy.  As a kid no matter how hard he tried it was "axe" and his th sounds all came out as fs.

Just throwing it out there as those can be remnants of treated speech impediments and not always due to not knowing the correct pronunciation.

 

Isn't it also a dialect or regional pronunciation? That isn't wrong, it's just not "standard"

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, seraaa said:

Isn't it also a dialect or regional pronunciation? That isn't wrong, it's just not "standard"

 

In my sons case it was part of his speech impediment which was comprised of multiple issues. as no one around him pronounced it that way.  But I looked it up and you're right...

Here's a quick history going back to Chaucer that's interesting.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/people-have-been-saying-ax-instead-ask-1200-years-180949663/

 

[LacyMay]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

and his th sounds all came out as fs.

This was me! Add in issues with S (snake), sh (sheet) and ch (chair)

And I was a bit of a disaster. Thank you universe for access to speech therapy in school. 

 

[scoutsadie]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Here's a quick history going back to Chaucer that's interesting.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/people-have-been-saying-ax-instead-ask-1200-years-180949663/

 

Well, that took me down a three-browser-tabs, two-hour rabbit hole! (I love linguistics, and history!) Thanks!

[kmachete14]

I taught in the Bronx and is was thought of to be very culturally insensitive to penalize kids for saying "axe" a question. As long as they were using it grammatically correct, it was just regarded as a regional thing. Only the white savior volunteers from upstate Bronx felt the need to badger the kids about it.

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

I taught in the Bronx and is was thought of to be very culturally insensitive to penalize kids for saying "axe" a question. As long as they were using it grammatically correct, it was just regarded as a regional thing. Only the white savior volunteers from upstate Bronx felt the need to badger the kids about it.

I never realized it was such an issue. I guess in the midwest, I never really heard it used that much. Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Still, I don't like to hear libarry, but if they are using the library, I guess its good. 

[ModestisHottest]

34 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I never realized it was such an issue. I guess in the midwest, I never really heard it used that much. Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Still, I don't like to hear libarry, but if they are using the library, I guess its good. 

I think something important to remember here is that ALL speakers of English (but also probably speakers of every language) have shortcuts or ways to make words easier to say in quick, fluent speech.  For example, if you listen you'll probably notice that you often drop the k in "asked" when you are using the word quickly in a sentence i.e. "I asked Sam if he's coming" becomes "I assed Sam if he's coming."  Similarly, I know I almost never hear people pronounce the "i" in "family." Usually, when it's used in a sentence people just say "famly." So then we have to ask ourselves, why are these shortcuts ok but ones like "libarry" and "axe" are not?  These two examples specifically are strongly associated with African American Vernacular English (consciously or not on the part of the hearer) and so, because of systemic racism, are stigmatized while "famly" or "assed" aren't.  I am 100% not saying this to judge you in anyway.  I had NO IDEA about any of this for a long time.  We are often totally unaware of ways the racism in the culture has seeped into our brains and I'm sure I have a ways to go in many areas. 

[Tangy Bee]

Growing up, I got confused about when to use passed and past.

[wastingcandles]

20 hours ago, seraaa said:

Isn't it also a dialect or regional pronunciation? That isn't wrong, it's just not "standard"

 

Yes it is! It is commonly heard in African American English (AAE).

Also can be due to Apraxia of Speech or another speech disorder. (I’m a speech-language pathologist for reference)

[Giraffe]

Just now, Tangy Bee said:

Growing up, I got confused about when to use passed and past.

I still have to think about that one.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, ModestisHottest said:

I think something important to remember here is that ALL speakers of English (but also probably speakers of every language) have shortcuts or ways to make words easier to say in quick, fluent speech.  For example, if you listen you'll probably notice that you often drop the k in "asked" when you are using the word quickly in a sentence i.e. "I asked Sam if he's coming" becomes "I assed Sam if he's coming."  Similarly, I know I almost never hear people pronounce the "i" in "family." Usually, when it's used in a sentence people just say "famly." So then we have to ask ourselves, why are these shortcuts ok but ones like "libarry" and "axe" are not?  These two examples specifically are strongly associated with African American Vernacular English (consciously or not on the part of the hearer) and so, because of systemic racism, are stigmatized while "famly" or "assed" aren't.  I am 100% not saying this to judge you in anyway.  I had NO IDEA about any of this for a long time.  We are often totally unaware of ways the racism in the culture has seeped into our brains and I'm sure I have a ways to go in many areas. 

The unconscious racism is an serious issues, as is the ability to switch between registers which is class based, rather than based on race or ethnic group.

People who are clearly capable of speaking in more formal registers get a pass for the casual register or gramtically incorrect colloquialisms because it's seen as a code choice.  When people are limited to more casual registers that's where a harmful bias comes in.