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Destiny

JinJer 51: Can't Even Sell Donuts!

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Rachel333
17 minutes ago, Charliemae said:

I would take that down. I don't know much about the law, but using someone's full name like that seems like libel. 

How would it be libel? People do that kind of thing for political figures all the time. All of the following were setup by people opposing these men:

officialmikepence.com

brettkavanaugh.com

joebiden.info (That one is setup by a Trump consultant)

And for fun:

tedcruzforhumanpresident.com

Edited by Rachel333

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Charliemae
56 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

How would it be libel? People do that kind of thing for political figures all the time. All of the following were setup by people opposing these men:

officialmikepence.com

brettkavanaugh.com

joebiden.info (That one is setup by a Trump consultant)

And for fun:

tedcruzforhumanpresident.com

Not a lawyer... Jinger's not a politician I don't think that applies.  I'm not turning you in or anything, no  need to convince me. 

Libel, from my layman's understanding, can be when you cause harm to someone's reputation or livelihood.  Using her full name is really brazen and I wouldn't do it.  I would be particularly careful as they are clearly working to brand her name.  Meaning that they could make an argument that you are intentionally damaging their income by defaming their brand ie. her name. 
 

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princessmahina

That statement from the company gives me such secondhand embarrassment for Jinger. I don’t like her all that much, but dang, that has to be humiliating. 

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Rachel333
19 minutes ago, Charliemae said:

Not a lawyer... Jinger's not a politician I don't think that applies.  I'm not turning you in or anything, no  need to convince me. 

Libel, from my layman's understanding, can be when you cause harm to someone's reputation or livelihood.  Using her full name is really brazen and I wouldn't do it.  I would be particularly careful as they are clearly working to brand her name.  Meaning that they could make an argument that you are intentionally damaging their income by defaming their brand ie. her name. 
 

I'm not the person who set up the site! I probably wouldn't do it myself, tbh, but it just sounds dubious to say that using someone's full name is libel. She's not trying to profit off of Jinger's name, and Jinger is a public figure. Why would it be different from setting up an anti-Kavanaugh site with his name?

(That said, even if you're legally in the right it's probably worth considering if you want to deal with having to prove that, if it came down to that.)

It's probably pretty pointless to have this discussion when clearly neither of us know a whole lot about these laws, though.

Edited by Rachel333

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Charliemae
2 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I'm not the person who set up the site! I probably wouldn't do it myself, tbh, but it just sounds dubious to say that using someone's full name is libel. She's not trying to profit off of Jinger's name, and Jinger is a public figure. Why would it be different from setting up an anti-Kavanaugh site with his name?

It's probably pretty pointless to have this discussion when clearly neither of us know a whole lot about these laws, though.

I'm kind of hoping someone will pop in who knows what they're talking about lol.  I also wish google would give me a better source to read up on it. The website would fit the dictionary definition of libel in more than one way that's not a legal case though: 

"2a: a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression

b(1): a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt

(2): defamation of a person by written or representational means

(3): the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures

(4): the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel

I'd say that website is a written defamatory statement that conveys an unfavorable impression.  It's whole intent is to expose the person to public contempt.   

I wasn't bad mouthing the person who created it ya'll.  I'm just offering some unsolicited advice. 

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Rachel333
1 minute ago, Charliemae said:

I'd say that website is a written defamatory statement that conveys an unfavorable impression.  It's whole intent is to expose the person to public contempt.   

But wouldn't you also have to prove that the person writing it knew it was false? I googled too and it seems like the main issue with specifically using someone's name is if you're profiting off it, like using someone's image or name to sell your own stuff, or buying a domain name with someone's name so that you can sell it to them. I'm just skeptical that the site would count as libel given that I've seen many people do similar things with public figures' names. I think saying that you might want to be careful with something like that is fair, though.

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CreatedToBeACritic

I am the person who wrote it, and I have not made a single statement other than that she and her husband are fundamentalist Christians. I did not even say that being that is bad. I just gave a description of what fundamentalism is and linked that to Jeremy's sermons which are still in the public domain. It's not defamatory if it's true and in the public domain, I think.

Also, not in the US! I do thank you for your advice and responses, solicited or not. Its something I'll have to think about.

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WarriorJane

Nothing on the page meets the legal criteria for libel.  Yet.  That being said,  I think we've all been directed to these sites that aren't what we think they are and it's annoying AF.  I'm not sure what you're trying to gain here, but to me it feels a little antagonistic to use her name in an attempt to mislead people.   It's kind of a dick move and comes off as a little obsessive.   Just my opinion.  Sorry.  

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CreatedToBeACritic
22 minutes ago, WarriorJane said:

Nothing on the page meets the legal criteria for libel.  Yet.  That being said,  I think we've all been directed to these sites that aren't what we think they are and it's annoying AF.  I'm not sure what you're trying to gain here, but to me it feels a little antagonistic to use her name in an attempt to mislead people.   It's kind of a dick move and comes off as a little obsessive.   Just my opinion.  Sorry.  

Well initially I just wanted to hog the domain name to be a nuisance to them since I am gay and they are homophobic. Then someone in the previous thread suggested I wrote something about extremism on it there which I thought was fair, just as long as any reader knows it's not actually Jinger.

So what I'm trying to gain is to inform the public on Jingers views and fundamentalism and to cause people to have to search a little better to support her. Kind of like a boycott.

It's fine if you think it's a dick move. Personally I find it more of a dick move to unironically say that marriage for everyone can only be between a man and a woman and put political power in that statement by saying it in places to convince others but that's why we're all unique.

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PennySycamore

Getting back to vegetarianism/veganism/eating animals for a  moment,  I recently visited Tanzania for 10 days.  About half the time, we were in towns and villages west of Mwanza Gulf on Lake Victoria.  I am normally a vegetarian, but if I hewed to that while I was visiting that very poor part of Tanzania, I would have little to eat but rice.  They did have hard boiled eggs sometimes and there were sometimes potatoes and usually fruit to eat.  (It was all fruit like bananas, mangoes, and pineapples where you do not eat the peel.)   I ate meat during those days, but those goats and chickens had lived out their useful lives as givers of milk and producers of eggs.  I remembered what the late Antony Bourdain had said about veganism being a developed world problem.

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AliceInFundyland
1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

Getting back to vegetarianism/veganism/eating animals for a  moment,  I recently visited Tanzania for 10 days.  About half the time, we were in towns and villages west of Mwanza Gulf on Lake Victoria.  I am normally a vegetarian, but if I hewed to that while I was visiting that very poor part of Tanzania, I would have little to eat but rice.  They did have hard boiled eggs sometimes and there were sometimes potatoes and usually fruit to eat.  (It was all fruit like bananas, mangoes, and pineapples where you do not eat the peel.)   I ate meat during those days, but those goats and chickens had lived out their useful lives as givers of milk and producers of eggs.  I remembered what the late Antony Bourdain had said about veganism being a developed world problem.

My brother had a similar experience in Africa. He was doing a volunteer program. (Like me, he's pretty much stayed with the born vegetarian thing)

The village he helped out had a feast. They cooked a goat. Well... What was he gonna do? He had some goat. Not doing so would have been terribly rude.

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AliceInFundyland

@CreatedToBeACritic

With no concrete knowledge I believe as long as you are clear on what are facts versus your own opinions. (and verification is always good) I think it's ok.

You inspired me to go buy my own domain name 😂 I've been meaning to do it for some time now. There are two married versions of me and one Jamaican version. But now I have the   . Com MWAHAAA!!

When I conquer the world that detail is in hand.

 

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WarriorJane
2 hours ago, CreatedToBeACritic said:

Well initially I just wanted to hog the domain name to be a nuisance to them since I am gay and they are homophobic. Then someone in the previous thread suggested I wrote something about extremism on it there which I thought was fair, just as long as any reader knows it's not actually Jinger.

So what I'm trying to gain is to inform the public on Jingers views and fundamentalism and to cause people to have to search a little better to support her. Kind of like a boycott.

It's fine if you think it's a dick move. Personally I find it more of a dick move to unironically say that marriage for everyone can only be between a man and a woman and put political power in that statement by saying it in places to convince others but that's why we're all unique.

I completely agree with you; the ultimate dick move* is telling people how to live and condemning them to hell for being who they are.   I think my post came off a little harsh sounding.   I just winced a bit at the webpage because for the most part,  FJers shy away from brushing up against the fundies.   Using her full name just struck me as getting a little close to the line, but of course that's open to interpretation.  I certainly don't make the rules.   

*I sometimes get on kicks with words and phrases and that one just came out. Didn't mean it to sound harsh by saying "dick move".  This week's word is "twat waffle."  I don't know why.   

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TuringMachine
5 hours ago, Charliemae said:

I'd say that website is a written defamatory statement that conveys an unfavorable impression.  It's whole intent is to expose the person to public contempt.  

Nope, you're missing some key requirements for defamation

From here:

Quote

If you believe you are have been "defamed," to prove it you usually have to show there's been a statement that is all of the following:

published

false

injurious

unprivileged

Most importantly, in order to be defamation, the statement must be false. Calling Jinger a fundamentalist and repeating her husbands sermons are not false statements, so they can not possibly be considered libelous. 

You're also missing the injurious part. Jinger would have to prove that this website caused her some sort of damage. I think she'd be hard pressed to prove it was this website, and not say, any of the other shit her and her family do.

Now, I am not a lawyer, and I don't know enough about filing lawsuits to know where she'd have to file, but if she were to file where she lives, California, she'd also likely be subject to California's anti SLAPP laws, meaning the burden of proof would be on her.

 

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patsymae

I just find the whole Jinjer grifting thing so fascinating, and mystifying. Are they really that naive that they thought they would go to Los Angeles and become huge "influencers" (still can't believe that's really a job; I might really be too old to live). Jinger wears pants! Jeremy orders frogs legs! How much cooler can you get?

Even in LA, they are up against some fundies who are way more sophisticated: the Boones, Candace Cameron Bure, Lisa Welchel come to mind, others should but I can't think of them now. But these people are professional performers who know the system and have leveraged their professed conservative Christianity into book deals, TV appearances, infomercials and commercials (even if some, like some of the Boone stuff early on, didn't work out so well), personal appearances and other sources of income that allow them to be Hollywood and fundie at the same time.
Jinjer just seem to live in a bubble that they thought would follow them wherever they go. It would be nice if this experience were genuinely humbling, rather than just humiliating, but I agree with others that it will probably just feed a persecution complex. Fed by their fans--as someone said, the outrage is that a business would decide not to pay Jinjer for existing because of her beliefs. Because, she is part of Jinjer, and they are entitled.
I won't be suprised if after Jer completes his "studies," the couple find they, like Jill and Dwreck, discover that God actually wants them back in Arkansas where Jinjer can model a line of modest soccer wear.

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CreatedToBeACritic

Hi all, I've decided to just remove mentions of Jinger from the website (beside the title and the disclamer that I'm not her). people will get the message anyway. I seriously doubt they could do anything with me as I am not in America nor an American, but I did not feel comfortable. I'm gonna switch some words up.

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Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues
5 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Getting back to vegetarianism/veganism/eating animals for a  moment,  I recently visited Tanzania for 10 days.  About half the time, we were in towns and villages west of Mwanza Gulf on Lake Victoria.  I am normally a vegetarian, but if I hewed to that while I was visiting that very poor part of Tanzania, I would have little to eat but rice.  They did have hard boiled eggs sometimes and there were sometimes potatoes and usually fruit to eat.  (It was all fruit like bananas, mangoes, and pineapples where you do not eat the peel.)   I ate meat during those days, but those goats and chickens had lived out their useful lives as givers of milk and producers of eggs.  I remembered what the late Antony Bourdain had said about veganism being a developed world problem.

I visited Argentina and was invited to lunch with a family.  They had cooked up a meat stew and served it to us without serving themselves - they didn't have enough to eat themselves!  The house was cobbled together with old bricks and tin with a dirt floor.  I made the decision to eat the meat - my partner was on the verge of saying something but I stopped him.  I've had other vegetarians make negative comments about my decision but all I say is: when the poorest people you have ever met offer you their food and hospitality, then I think you should accept with grace and leave everything else behind.

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theotherelise

I don’t really care one way or another about the partnerships, but I do have sympathy for one aspect. Jinger isn’t really hiding any part of her background. Jeremys affiliations are public, she’s still actively on the show, and she’s never disavowed a single belief of her family besides saying she was personally not convicted to wear skirts.

So I would be frustrated if a brand reached out and offered a deal and then later backed out even though I’d not done anything new.

I do marketing as part of my job, and reviewing everything to make sure it meets your brand identity is pretty basic. You shouldn’t be waiting for public response or backlash to dictate these decisions, you should be ahead of it.

It is embarrassing and I think it’s fine for brands not to want to work with her. But they shouldn’t be reaching out without some due diligence. Kind of crappy to say “we want you” and then “never mind, you’re exactly the same person with no new scandal but we changed our mind after someone complained.”

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Dizzy
tankgirl
On 12/6/2019 at 10:59 PM, FluffySnowball said:

True! A diet still needs to be practical. But I just fairly recently (like a year ago or so) learnt that there’s vegan wine. So apparently when the liquid gets filtered or something, a cow blather is sometimes used, making the product not acceptable for consumption according to the standards of many vegans. However, when another, not animal-based filter is used, the wine is vegan. Who’d have thought about that? I certainly didn’t! (I’m not vegan btw, I’m vegetarian, but I find the whole topic quite interesting) Now, let’s continue with duvets 😂

For wine it's actually a certain fish's swim bladder that they use to filter some wines and beers, they also use egg whites sometimes, which is why some can be vegetarian but not vegan. Not all beers and wines are filtered this way though.

 

Also want to add, not all sugars use bone char. It is a whitening process and many brands do not use this process, C & H I know do though.

As to cheese more US makers are going to microbial rennet as its supposed to be easier to work with, but countries like French and Italy can not due to laws about what constitutes certain variations of cheese and they have no wiggle room, all Parmigiano from Italy will have calf rennet, or will be labelled something else like "hard cheese".

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neuroticcat
1 hour ago, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:

I visited Argentina and was invited to lunch with a family.  They had cooked up a meat stew and served it to us without serving themselves - they didn't have enough to eat themselves!  The house was cobbled together with old bricks and tin with a dirt floor.  I made the decision to eat the meat - my partner was on the verge of saying something but I stopped him.  I've had other vegetarians make negative comments about my decision but all I say is: when the poorest people you have ever met offer you their food and hospitality, then I think you should accept with grace and leave everything else behind.

Yep. When I was a vegetarian I visited a refugee family. They had made s really special meal. To me it looked like a giant ball of ground meat. But no way was I going to refuse their generosity and hospitality. I ate it. 

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church_of_dog

I haven't eaten beef in 15 years (at least not intentionally) but I did make one intentional exception.  When some friends returned from their honeymoon to South America and held a housewarming party featuring a beef dish they had learned on their trip (and which was made using meat from a cow the bride's ranching parents raised), I went ahead and had some.

I was among friends and no one would have blinked or taken offense if I had skipped the meat dish, but I decided it was more important to me to share in their celebratory focus on this cultural dish than it was to avoid beef that one time.  

 

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SuperNova
2 hours ago, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:

I visited Argentina and was invited to lunch with a family.  They had cooked up a meat stew and served it to us without serving themselves - they didn't have enough to eat themselves!  The house was cobbled together with old bricks and tin with a dirt floor.  I made the decision to eat the meat - my partner was on the verge of saying something but I stopped him.  I've had other vegetarians make negative comments about my decision but all I say is: when the poorest people you have ever met offer you their food and hospitality, then I think you should accept with grace and leave everything else behind.

 

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

Yep. When I was a vegetarian I visited a refugee family. They had made s really special meal. To me it looked like a giant ball of ground meat. But no way was I going to refuse their generosity and hospitality. I ate it. 

I lurk here but rarely comment but I wanted to say good on both of you!!

I worked in the import food industry for many years. I got to travel cool places and have some really interesting meals. Sharing food with others is an incredible way to bond and bring people together...and the one of fastest ways to offend. I've found that the poorer someone is, the more readily they give a guest the best of what they have. And if their best is cured monkfish livers or entrail stew then by god you eat it with a smile.

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RainbowSky
22 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

Until this moment, I had no clue how many CA peeps OR plastic bags OR vegetarians were near.  Welcoming all.

DO NOT EAT EACH OTHER.   Soylent Green Is People!

I've been pretty sick lately. My husband asked if I'd thought of trying this to try to get vitamins. I said "Um, no. No, I don't need human in my diet to get vitamins. That's a bit extreme!"

I am aware that there is a shake called Soylent (that should not have human!) But that's not what he said lol

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Waffle Time
DarkAnts
On 12/6/2019 at 5:02 PM, Destiny said:

The 10 cent ones are what they make the terrible plastic wrapped American "cheese" from. This is fact! 😛

In Salem, Oregon we can buy paper bags for $0.05. I know we get our cheese like our produce from California so I guess our cheese is still plastic.

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SassyPants
17 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Getting back to vegetarianism/veganism/eating animals for a  moment,  I recently visited Tanzania for 10 days.  About half the time, we were in towns and villages west of Mwanza Gulf on Lake Victoria.  I am normally a vegetarian, but if I hewed to that while I was visiting that very poor part of Tanzania, I would have little to eat but rice.  They did have hard boiled eggs sometimes and there were sometimes potatoes and usually fruit to eat.  (It was all fruit like bananas, mangoes, and pineapples where you do not eat the peel.)   I ate meat during those days, but those goats and chickens had lived out their useful lives as givers of milk and producers of eggs.  I remembered what the late Antony Bourdain had said about veganism being a developed world problem.

My daughter was a vegetarian for years when she moved to So American for a graduate school internship. She was living with a family and they provided her meals. She had to eat meat lest she insult her hosts and subside on rice or potatoes alone. Now she mainly eats fish, but will eat whatever she is served. She hates cooking.

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