Counting On Season 8/9/10/11 4: Babies, Babies, Babies

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

I actually found the whole second half of the episode quite moving. I don't think the kids were taught how to deal with someone else's grief though as others have said. When Jackson and Joe were stood there crying and Joe completely broke down overcome with grief, they were all stood as stiff as statues. It seemed awkward, no hugging, nothing. I know they are taught about modesty and only to side hug etc but a hug would seem natural in that situation. 

James and Lauren Caldwell were sat together at the pre funeral viewing.

Just to note that the pregnancy photoshoot took place when Ivy was a week old as Jessa said so it would probably be the 1/2 June.

Also confirmation from the Duggars themselves that Mary died from drowning in the pool after a suspected stroke.

Edited December 18, 2019 by jillsdopplerofdoom

[singsingsing]

Joe has always seemed like the most emotionally healthy Duggar. I have absolutely no idea why that is, but I’ve seen multiple instances of it: him having a close bond with Jinger, him getting emotional about what Josh did and saying he no longer looked up to him, openly and genuinely crying as Kendra walked down the aisle, talking to and beaming at his newborn son. I don’t really watch the show anymore, but I’m absolutely not surprised that Joe was one of the ones displaying genuine emotion.

Now Joe has plenty of issues, he also seems like one of the biggest kool-aid drinkers and has apparently encouraged various siblings to stay loyal to the cult. But for some reason he seems to have an easier time actually processing emotion in a healthy way than most of his family.

[SassyPants]

Aside from vocalization  about closeness to a sibling by both Jana (about her twin) and Jessa about Jinger, the actions reflecting such are really slim to none. I would think that Jessa would talk a bit more about missing Jinger and how fun it would be to get together with their daughters. We did see Jana go all out for JDs wedding and engagement activities.

If these people are all best friends, it really doesn’t translate well in the show. No one is an individual in this group. They do not know how to relate to others, not even their own family members.

[Peaches1981]

3 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

Yeah, she did say that women who give birth in a hospital are routinely given Pitocin after delivery. I wasn’t given Pitocin. In fact, most women I know didn’t get it after delivery. Sounds like another one of their made up statistics.

Maybe she means Vitamin K shot? I was given one in my thigh after delivery and I think that may be routine although I am not completely sure. My midwife did say it was optional but I said go ahead as I would rather be safe than sorry. 

[purple_summer]

They’re showing the actual funeral planning??? I know I’m still reeling from the loss of my own grandma but this just feels like too much. 

[MamaMia02]

1 hour ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I actually found the whole second half of the episode quite moving. I don't think the kids were taught how to deal with someone else's grief though as others have said. When Jackson and Joe were stood there crying and Joe completely broke down overcome with grief, they were all stood as stiff as statues. It seemed awkward, no hugging, nothing. I know they are taught about modesty and only to side hug etc but a hug would seem natural in that situation. 

James and Lauren Caldwell were sat together at the pre funeral viewing.

Just to note that the pregnancy photoshoot took place when Ivy was a week old as Jessa said so it would probably be the 1/2 June.

Also confirmation from the Duggars themselves that Mary died from drowning in the pool after a suspected stroke.

I thought it was a genuine display from Joe and Jeremiah. Jeremiah was closest when Joe was breaking down and he put his arm around him and Joe actually leaned his head in. I've been an absolute mess this episode as yesterday was 1 month since I lost my grandpa and I can feel the grief

[Jana814]

Watching the funeral of Grandma Duggar. I really felt bad for the younger kids. This was their first experience with the death of someone they saw all the time.  I lost all my grandparents & my uncle by the time I was 12. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Jana814

[SassyPants]

22 minutes ago, Peaches1981 said:

Maybe she means Vitamin K shot? I was given one in my thigh after delivery and I think that may be routine although I am not completely sure. My midwife did say it was optional but I said go ahead as I would rather be safe than sorry. 

I know babies get a Vit K shot after birth, but are you saying they are now giving Vit K to recently delivered mothers?

[MamaMia02]

I noticed at the funeral not only was James sitting by Lauren but he and Joe were the only ones showed getting true hugs from Pastor Caldwell 

[Peaches1981]

35 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I know babies get a Vit K shot after birth, but are you saying they are now giving Vit K to recently delivered mothers?

Ok. It looks like I am totally remembering wrong! I think I authorized midwife to give my baby Vitamin K after he was born. I apologize for misremembering! My mistake ?

[justmy2cents]

18 minutes ago, Peaches1981 said:

Ok. It looks like I am totally remembering wrong! I think I authorized midwife to give my baby Vitamin K after he was born. I apologize for misremembering! My mistake ?

That's probably what you're remembering. Jessa was definitely referring to the Pitocin since she was at the hospital getting Pitocin after the delivery to help her uterus contract more to stem the excessive bleeding.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

Yeah, she did say that women who give birth in a hospital are routinely given Pitocin after delivery. I wasn’t given Pitocin. In fact, most women I know didn’t get it after delivery. Sounds like another one of their made up statistics.

I don’t know if it is or isn’t but I was given pitocin after both of my vaginal births. 

[SportsgalAnnie]

I think it's just tacky and sad to show a funeral like that. Allow your kids a chance to grieve in private. 

[Nargus]

I wasn't given any Pitocin after my vaginal birth but I was also induced so I was on a drip of it for 5 hours prior. So I likely had enough in me to not need another.

[neuroticcat]

I’ve been given pitocin with all my births to help uterus contract afterward. Only once with the shot because IV came out during transition. 

I agree with the sibling disconnect. A friend of mine has a grandfather who was one of 21 children. He’s expressed that he didn’t even know many of his siblings and certainly not his parents. Instead there were sibling groups that became close. I think that would have to be the case, even in a smaller family. 

I have five children and the older three are a pack and the younger two are buddies. There’s a thirteen year age gap between youngest and oldest, so I imagine my oldest will always feel more like an uncle to the youngest two. How much more with the Duggar numbers! It’s impossible to have connected relationships at that size...even with buddy groups!

[Anna Bolinas]

7 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

My main takeaway from this episode is that this is the most the Duggar family has looked like a cult in recent years. 

 

I remember someone either here or on Reddit compared that photoshoot to the movie Midsommar. They definitely weren't wrong.

Spoiler

Now if only Anna would do to Josh what Dani does to Christian...........I'm half-kidding.

 

[Sky with diamonds]

I'm so conflicted about the most recent  episode. It wasn't easy for me to watch. I knew I could not speak at my father's service in May, because I would have cried, or fainted. My sister wrote a beautiful  eulogy about him, and it took every I had to keep it together. I did not she'd a tear because I tried to be strong for my mother. All this time later, I tend to fall apart in private. I known I walked and walked this past summer and fall tracing the steps that my father and I walked. Sometimes  I still can't believe  he is gone. Yesterday  was my birthday, and it was my first birthday  without him. It was difficult.

I better stop now, I know I'm all over the place, but this hit home.

My heart genuinely  goes out to the Duggars. Mary seemed to be a lovely, caring woman. 

[mstee]

L&D nurse here... we regularly give pitocin drips to moms after birth. I’d say my hospital is about 5-10 years behind the curve of what’s best practice so maybe larger hospitals have fazed it out, but it’s what our docs order. When I gave birth (different hospital) with a more progressive Nurse midwife, my uterus struggled to clamp down so I was given a shot of pit in my muscle and that helped. So it’s pretty routinely used and it sounds like Jessa sees the benefit in having it. Hopefully that means she’ll have a hospital birth with her next one. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

The lack of physical support from family members was very telling. That and watching all the Duggar kids struggle to verbalize what they were feeling, none of them seemed to have the ability to explaine what they were feeling because they weren't taught how to. 

[Glasgowghirl]

Amy tweeted that it's ok to grieve privately, suggesting that she was not in favour of Mary's service being filmed. I am on the fence about it being filmed personally, Mary was a key part of the show and many fans of the show may have wanted to say bye to her but Amy and maybe some of the others were not comfortable with it being on TV and I think that should have been taken into consideration. If Joy and Austin choose to discuss Annabell's loss on the show and even show some of her funeral, I will have no issue with it either but it should be their decision and their decision only. 

[Pretzel]

I'm surprised some people here found the episode tacky. I thought it was well done all things considered.

They showed some of the funeral planning rather than showing too many details of the actual funeral, which I thought was smart and kept the funeral a bit more private. As sad as it is, death is a part of life and such is the planning of saying goodbye to someone you loved. The show is supposed to be about the Duggars/offspring's lives so there's that. I think we shouldn't forget that this show is also highly edited and they put the events of several days into less than half an hour.

All things considered, they explained that grandma's health had declined 6 months prior to her death, they had JB&M talk about how they assumed grandma passed away. Then they showed Michelle and Jinger talking to the funeral director and he said something I thought was very kind. Sth. along the lines of "the grieving and crying means that you loved, and that the person was someone who was loved" or something like that and Michelle said that his support was "such a blessing". Also, Jinger comforted Michelle when she cried after talking to said director. They had JB&M talk about how much Mary meant to them, the kids were shown lovingly recalling memories of her and grieving her loss, and the episode made it very clear that everyone was devastated by Grandma Mary's passing. Some Duggars were more vocal and open about their grief and some had more trouble expressing what they felt and finding the right words. Considered how many people are in that family, it's just not surprising that the more emotionally reserved among them would struggle more with the emotions. 

They had JB&M say that Grandma had been their role model all her life and that she set an example of what a good grandparent looked like, and they were striving to be more like her. Then collage of happy memories with grandma towards the end of the episode.  It is clear she was loved by everyone. 

I don't know what others find tacky about it but of all the 19KaC and CO episodes, I thought this really tragic event was kept as tasteful as possible considered that it's a reality show and the Duggars aren't exactly known for doing things tastefully. 

@Glasgowghirl To be fair, I don't think that is what Amy meant to say in her post. I think she was referring to why she wasn't shown in the episode. Some leghumpers probably contacted her about it and she said she had been a mess that day and, I guess, opted not to be filmed. Which is totally fine. However, if Amy is criticizing the Duggar's about having some parts of the funeral filmed...oh my. Meh. Amy has posted a lot about Grandma Mary since her passing, which is also totally fine but isn't exactly grieving in private either. ?

Edited December 18, 2019 by Pretzel

[lumpentheologie]

I don't think showing a funeral at all is necessarily tacky but I do have a problem with TLC (and the Duggars) exploiting the raw grief of minor children for profit. They cannot consent to this, and it's a very private thing. I feel similarly about them showing it when the kids are hurt or sick or having a poop explosion. I also don't like them featuring the kids' medical issues on the show. 

[CarrotCake]

It makes sense that they put something on the show but I would have thought it would be only the talking heads and some shots of the (pre)funeral. The whole speeches and the emotional reaction of the kids was unnecessary. I turned it off because it felt not good to watch it, especially the younger children.

[Timetraveler]

16 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

My main takeaway from this episode is that this is the most the Duggar family has looked like a cult in recent years. 

The pastel pregnancy photoshoot and JB and Michelle's TH where she says (in reference to the pregnancies/grandbabies) "I have a feeling that this is just the beginning." just screamed cult. Joy, Kendra and Lauren were all what, 20-21 at the time?

Joe and whichever brother completely breaking down at the pre-funeral gathering was interesting. None of the brothers who were literally standing next to them offered any comfort (except Jer because Joe basically ran into him). Not even a hand on their brother's shoulder, a simple basic gesture. Nothing. Michelle and Kendra rushing up to the stage to help out showed how restricted and emotionally stunted the Duggar children are. 

Good job, TLC. 

I think, not sure in this case though, that it can also be a personal preference. I prefer not to be touched when I am sad or grieving. I prefer some personal space and some space to just....breathe and....well, to just be.

[SassyPants]

I’ll bet that JB and Mary spoke about this before she died, and she agreed to have her services filmed and aired. It has always been said that Mary was a $hrewed business woman. Plus after what they showed during her husband’s illness and passing, I thought this episode was much more tastefully done. My GM passed away suddenly and in an unfortunate circumstances ( on the morning of her 50th wedding anniversary party). She was my first major loss. It is very hard. I feel for the kids.