Counting On Season 8/9/10/11 4: Babies, Babies, Babies

[Kelsey]

I think Lauren needed a more passive spouse like Joe. It's possible that Josiah was more passive during the courting phase due to being enamored with her but after marriage, the real person comes out. It appears Josiah has opinions and Lauren doesn't want to deal with that shit.

[Natalie22]

1 hour ago, Kelsey said:

I think Lauren needed a more passive spouse like Joe. It's possible that Josiah was more passive during the courting phase due to being enamored with her but after marriage, the real person comes out. It appears Josiah has opinions and Lauren doesn't want to deal with that shit.

Yeah, it was pretty clear they have terrible communication.  The only way one of them feels heard is if the other one just does exactly what they want.  While Lauren was pretty bad at communicating during the nest activity it also seemed like Josiah wasn't doing any better.  She voiced her concern and he just interrupted her and brushed her off with absolutely zero interest in why she felt that way.

[bal maiden]

Based on the marriage retreat, I can only imagine how badly Josiah and Lauren are coping with a newborn. 

[Iamtheway]

9 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I wonder if "no matter what" would extend to a spouse trying to lead the other (or the children) away from the faith?

Murder, rape and abuse is ok but considering catholicism is definitly grounds for divorce. 

[Kelsey]

4 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

Yeah, it was pretty clear they have terrible communication.  The only way one of them feels heard is if the other one just does exactly what they want.  While Lauren was pretty bad at communicating during the nest activity it also seemed like Josiah wasn't doing any better.  She voiced her concern and he just interrupted her and brushed her off with absolutely zero interest in why she felt that way.

I agree. It's telling that they were successful when one of them was blindfolded and couldn't have an opinion.

It's got to be really tense in their household right now 

[mollysmom]

This episode just confirmed my feelings about Lauren. She is a spoiled brat. She is very unlikable. I really feel for Josiah. Because of how they court, there's a good chance that he had no idea what he was getting himself into with her. She's by far my least favorite Duggar in-law. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Lauren needed about 10 more years of maturity before marrying anyone, she's right behind smuggar in the insufferable department. 

I watched part of it, and found it interesting that all the woman said they needed lots of work on being a better wife and I didn't hear any of the men say they needed lots of work to be a better husband, but I didn't see the whole thing. I turned it off after hearing Joy, Kendra and Jessa say they needed lots of work. ?

[nausicaa]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:28 PM, tabitha2 said:

If he really thinks the Duggars are such basic uneducated boors I have to wonder if he doesn’t make Jinger feel very small on a regular basis. 

It's always been 100% clear to me that this was a major appeal of marrying Jinger.

It's still strange to me that others on here think this relationship is somehow true love. I don't know if it's coming from very young posters or just people blessed to be blind to how ugly the dynamics of a lot of marriages can be. 

[CaricatureQualities]

Jeremy might be the "worldly" one as compared to the bumkin Duggars (so the show portrays so desperately) but we are also reminded that he never grew up with the all important JimBob haggling skills that Jinger and the rest have inherited from growing up cheap  frugally. I mean, he did sell like 100$ worth of paint for 15$ and is an idiot but at the same time I'm so tired of the Duggars being so proud of their  "negotiation skills". They are cheap and I feel like they'd sell you a piece of shit in a heartbeat for a buck. their whole brand is selling bullshit for money. I wouldn't buy a used car from any of them as I would expect it to break down as soon as I got it out of the lot. 

As for Lauren having to peace out for naps...I agree with y'all that it is weird and dramatic and doesn't speak well of their communication skills....but if I found myself faced with participating in such Duggar nonsense I would ALWAYS BE SICK too. "Sorry, don't feel well...just gonna pop over the the guest house for the rest of the day. Just gonna go lay down for the duration of this super cool activity". But I'd never find myself in that situation so I dunno.

 

[just_ordinary]

Why do people think Josiah is the only one that got the short end of the stick? Lauren possibility imagined things differently too. They do not look as if they are a good fit or that they actually really into each other. In this cult I am always a bit more sympathetic to the women. Because in a situation like this, they are the ones who are told that they are responsible  and should change and improve. Josiah doesn’t strike me as hands on (like JD is portrayed) or as a relaxed nice (even a bit simple) guy (as Joe comes across). While, thankfully, I don’t see that he is similar to his oldest brother both give off the vibe that they had different planes and hopes but those got crushed by their parents. Both pursue(d) careers in politics but I am not sure if that’s a genuine interest or more pushed by JB. Long story short, Josiah doesn’t come across as if he is ready to be good husband for anyone. People love to hate Lauren but let’s not forget that she has to live with a Duggar husband.

[marmalade]

Note that the only exercise that Lauren participated in from start to finish was the one where she got to bark orders at Josiah. She wasn't there for anything that required compromise. 

[DarkAnts]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Why do people think Josiah is the only one that got the short end of the stick? Lauren possibility imagined things differently too. They do not look as if they are a good fit or that they actually really into each other. In this cult I am always a bit more sympathetic to the women. Because in a situation like this, they are the ones who are told that they are responsible  and should change and improve. Josiah doesn’t strike me as hands on (like JD is portrayed) or as a relaxed nice (even a bit simple) guy (as Joe comes across). While, thankfully, I don’t see that he is similar to his oldest brother both give off the vibe that they had different planes and hopes but those got crushed by their parents. Both pursue(d) careers in politics but I am not sure if that’s a genuine interest or more pushed by JB. Long story short, Josiah doesn’t come across as if he is ready to be good husband for anyone. People love to hate Lauren but let’s not forget that she has to live with a Duggar husband.

Josiah spent the most time at Alert out of all the boys. I do wonder if any of that time was voluntary. It doesn't seem to be the sort of thing he would enjoy. 

[Sky with diamonds]

Watched the episode and SiRen made me cringe. She was very immature, and he was bossy. Pretty bad when Lauren had to lie to her husband and the viewers  that she wasn't feeling well. I'd rather she be honest from the start. 

[kiwi]

Note that the only exercise that Lauren participated in from start to finish was the one where she got to bark orders at Josiah. She wasn't there for anything that required compromise. 

She’s probably compromised enough in marrying him.

He still comes across super gay.

She was/is naive enough to have not realised that prior. I could see him only having sex to get pregnant and then it being off the table to not “compromise” the pregnancy. So id imagine she probably doesn’t feel like shes doing enough “wifely duties” [emoji2368]

[Peaches-n-Beans]

I'm just now sitting down to watch the episode and Jim Bob and Michelle's matching outfits are highkey pissing me off. Maybe more then Lauren's disinterested attitude. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Peaches-n-Beans
misspelled Jim Bobs name, it was bugging me

[Peaches-n-Beans]

Oof and watching Lauren with this nest project is also really pissing me off,  she missed the entire point. Josiah bugged me a little too, like, she's clearly not thrilled but he didn't go over and ask what was wrong or what happened. She is so clearly lying to me I just don't understand how you can be married to someone and not see that... These two are just so woefully unsuited for one another. 

And wow she slept in how late because of "Kids not sleeping"... not even her kids. I get that she's pregnant, but like, come on, if the parents of those children - who must have been up with them too, and correct me if I'm wrong but currently in the show Kendra and Joy would be pregnant too - can get up, make breakfast, manage their kids, and then do the activity surely Lauren could do one of those things???? And her excuses. Jesus Mary and Joseph, just be honest for once, her lying through her teeth is almost as annoying as everything else. Like literally what was the point of Josiah recording his vows, the idea of these exercises is that the couples do them together. What is the point if one of the people "can't" wont do them?

also it's extremely ironic that the commitment exercise is what she wouldn't do. 

Joy and Austin on the other hand not only seem to genuinely enjoy the activities but to be good at them and enjoy doing them with one another. I think of all the couples they're the best suited to one another. 

Kendra and Joe.... meh... Kendra kinda just... I don't know she seems really young, like super young in this episode. I know she's not but she just came off that way. I don't really like her either so maybe it's that.  That said they do seem to actually genuinely love one another, I don't know how much of that is that they're super young and new at this, but they seem relatively well suited for one another too. 

Ben and Jessa, eh, not much to say on them. I think it's good Michelle and Jim Bob will watch their kids though, I mean I'm sure Jennifer or Jordyn is doing most of the watching but at least they have somewhere the kids can go during this sort of thing. I do have to say in the previews when she's talking about her water breaking two weeks early, and Ben says "we hadn't planned for this". Is that dramatic editing or is he implying they hadn't planned on two weeks early? Because 38 weeks is considered full term and by their third I'd think they'd know that. 

Abby "It's been really fun since we're all in a similar stage of life and can kind of learn and grow together" I mean okay, That's sweet, she and John david seem nice enough, but I don't see Lauren doing much growing, so maybe "all learn and grow together" is a bit of an overstatement. 

On an unrelated note I adore that mug display Jeremy and Jinger have behind them during the Talking Heads. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

Oof and watching Lauren with this nest project is also really pissing me off,  she missed the entire point. Josiah bugged me a little too, like, she's clearly not thrilled but he didn't go over and ask what was wrong or what happened. She is so clearly lying to me I just don't understand how you can be married to someone and not see that... These two are just so woefully unsuited for one another. 

And wow she slept in how late because of "Kids not sleeping"... not even her kids. I get that she's pregnant, but like, come on, if the parents of those children - who must have been up with them too, and correct me if I'm wrong but currently in the show Kendra and Joy would be pregnant too - can get up, make breakfast, manage their kids, and then do the activity surely Lauren could do one of those things???? And her excuses. Jesus Mary and Joseph, just be honest for once, her lying through her teeth is almost as annoying as everything else. Like literally what was the point of Josiah recording his vows, the idea of these exercises is that the couples do them together. What is the point if one of the people "can't" wont do them?

also it's extremely ironic that the commitment exercise is what she wouldn't do. 

Joy and Austin on the other hand not only seem to genuinely enjoy the activities but to be good at them and enjoy doing them with one another. I think of all the couples they're the best suited to one another. 

Kendra and Joe.... meh... Kendra kinda just... I don't know she seems really young, like super young in this episode. I know she's not but she just came off that way. I don't really like her either so maybe it's that.  That said they do seem to actually genuinely love one another, I don't know how much of that is that they're super young and new at this, but they seem relatively well suited for one another too. 

Ben and Jessa, eh, not much to say on them. I think it's good Michelle and Jim Bob will watch their kids though, I mean I'm sure Jennifer or Jordyn is doing most of the watching but at least they have somewhere the kids can go during this sort of thing. I do have to say in the previews when she's talking about her water breaking two weeks early, and Ben says "we hadn't planned for this". Is that dramatic editing or is he implying they hadn't planned on two weeks early? Because 38 weeks is considered full term and by their third I'd think they'd know that. 

Abby "It's been really fun since we're all in a similar stage of life and can kind of learn and grow together" I mean okay, That's sweet, she and John david seem nice enough, but I don't see Lauren doing much growing, so maybe "all learn and grow together" is a bit of an overstatement. 

On an unrelated note I adore that mug display Jeremy and Jinger have behind them during the Talking Heads. 

I think the Duggars are the Seewalds’ backup and most, if not all of them, were in TN at Carlin’s wedding when Jessa went into labor. Ben’s family live a distance away, IIRC. But yes, poor planning is typical for this group. 

[nst]

I finally watched last week's episode

What is wrong with Abbie? The woman has no oomp and she is constantly blaming herself and she has no personality

Jessa and Ben are still being them. 

Austin and Joy are competitive 

and boy oh boy Lauren and Josiah are just to painful to watch.  I can't stand either of them. 

[FluffySnowball]

On 11/29/2019 at 4:32 AM, kiwi said:

 

She’s probably compromised enough in marrying him.

He still comes across super gay.

She was/is naive enough to have not realised that prior. I could see him only having sex to get pregnant and then it being off the table to not “compromise” the pregnancy. So id imagine she probably doesn’t feel like shes doing enough “wifely duties”

 

I’m aware of our policy of not deleting posts, but would @Curious maybe decide to do so regardless? We’ve discussed this multiple times. Even adult, married men could potentially suffer severe consequences if there’s even so much as a rumor they are gay. They could be forced into conversion therapies or what not. I don’t think it’s fair to speculate on the subject. 

[Charliemae]

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

I’m aware of our policy of not deleting posts, but would @Curious maybe decide to do so regardless? We’ve discussed this multiple times. Even adult, married men could potentially suffer severe consequences if there’s even so much as a rumor they are gay. They could be forced into conversion therapies or what not. I don’t think it’s fair to speculate on the subject. 

You may not think it's not fair but the only rule I'm aware of has to do with minors and adults living at home.  We need more frank honest discussions about the closeted men and women in this culture.  Speculating can get real sketchy real quick, but that's a discussion worth having as well, not worth censoring. 

Wither Josiah is gay or not, he is openly supportive of anti-LGBT politics and toxic religious beliefs.  If he is gay, his life probably sucks in ways I can't even imagine.  But he's now as an adult actively creating and/or supporting the environment to perpetuate the abuse you talk about.   FWIW I don't think that Josiah ever fit well in the world he was raised in and to see him preparing to raise kids the same way makes me sick. 

[Coconut Flan]

Requesting or discussing rule changes properly goes in community discussion.  Thank you!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

7 hours ago, nst said:

I finally watched last week's episode

What is wrong with Abbie? The woman has no oomp and she is constantly blaming herself and she has no personality

Jessa and Ben are still being them. 

Austin and Joy are competitive 

and boy oh boy Lauren and Josiah are just to painful to watch.  I can't stand either of them. 

Is it just me or does anyone else think Joy plays the "good Gothard wife" for the cameras only & maybe her parents? I think Austin was totally trolling the TV audience last week when he said something kind of flippantly about keeping Joy in line and said "JUST KIDDING" in a snarky way after, because he knows the majority of leg humpers don't understand sarcasm.  Sure they are neck deep in the Kool aid, they just aren't your typical Gothard/fundy husband and wife. 

I think Jessa got lucky with Ben too because he lets her be how she wants to be not what he wants her to be, it could also have to do with how YOUNG Ben was when they married and how much younger he is than Jessa, that and her domineering personality and his laid back chill one mean she's in charge.  

As for Abbie, she's turning out to be just like Jinger, a wet noodle that will do and be what ever her husband demands her to be, 

I also think Josiah is trying to make Lauren be the wife he wants her to be but she's having none of it. For which I would say good for her, but shes such an insufferable little brat, but it is still good for her.

As for Derick and Jill, I think Derick wants Jill to have a bit more backbone, but he also wants her to be a submissive wife, and he wants her to know which one he wants when he wants, because he's an asshole like that. 

Jess & Joy seem to have gotten lucky in the husband department. Joy gets to run around with the guys and play i the mud and Jessa gets to boss Ben around they both seem very happy at the moment. 

[Coconut Flan]

As I said, rules discussions go in Community Discussion:

 

[Peaches-n-Beans]

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I also think Josiah is trying to make Lauren be the wife he wants her to be but she's having none of it. For which I would say good for her, but shes such an insufferable little brat, but it is still good for her

I haven't got this sense from the two of them at all, I've gotten the sense that neither one of them is exactly what the other wanted or hoped for in a spouse - I think Lauren would like someone a little less Aloof then Josiah, someone maybe more attentive to her emotional needs (case and point he didn't even seem to pick up on her being angry at him, and while I do think Lauren should've just come out and said he's frustrating her, he seemed oblivious to the fact that he was domineering the activity.). I think Josiah would've liked someone a little more laid back and chill, someone less... controlling isn't really the word, I guess spoiled works? She's just so set in her ways and likely to throw a fit when it doesn't go the way she wants it. Case and point, she sat out two activities for various BS reasons. 

And I maintain that second reason was BS, Kendra is pregnant too and her kid was one of the kids supposedly keeping Lauren up. If she can get up for a mid morning/early afternoon activity then Lauren can. I think Lauren was still pissy about something myself but that's just speculation. Frankly I hope that's what it was because how in the hell is she gonna manage her own kid while pregnant if she can't handle someone elses kid. 

[fluffernutter]

I just had a random thought. Does anyone know why we never hear about baptisms? I can't remember ever seeing anything with the Bates or Duggars regarding this.