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Counting On Season 8/9/10/11 4: Babies, Babies, Babies


Coconut Flan

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Am I the only one who likes Lauren? 
 

She’s been insensitive to Joy, and needs some help processing the miscarriage- but she’s human, and young, and everyone reacts to grief differently. 
 

I think she and Josiah are likely just going to have a starter marriage with a couple kids, and then split - officially or not - but I like that she doesn’t feel obligated to keep going at silly tasks when she’s feeling like puking. She may have felt up to going, but then wasn’t, that’s how pregnancy is for lots of people. Good on her for not trying to build a nest between vomiting attacks. 
She has boundaries. She’s articulate. She seems bright. She’s condescending AF to Josiah, but he seems to dig on the mothering tone. 

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On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:52 AM, AliceInFundyland said:

Yeah. The more I learn about the "usefulness" of castor oil. I think that I too would thoroughly opt for an enema.

The idea of inducing gastric upset with the impending baby sounds hideous.

Is there any particular reason that enemas have fallen out of favor? (other than it is something being stuck up your butt)

Here in Belgium they still routinely offer enemas. I decided to go for one. I know it's normal to defecate when giving birth, but I get easily embarrassed and thought it would help me be less inhibited when pushing.

The thing is... when labour starts, it's not uncommon that it all comes out already anyway. Sorry if it's too much information, but the cramps I experience on the first days of my period often cause diarrhea. The same thing happened when I went into labour, and I have since then heard that my experience is not unusual.

Once I got to the hospital, I didn't think I really needed an enema anymore, but as mentioned above, figured I should anyway just for my own peace of mind. It didn't have any effect at all since my bowels were already empty, and once it came to pushing I was so preoccupied with the pain and the effort that I wouldn't have noticed if I had produced a turd the size of Joshley.

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Jessa. For the love of God. Just start giving birth in the hospital! She has a history of bleeding excessively after birth and having to be carted off by the squad, but still insists on giving birth on that big brown couch. If she always ends up in the hospital anyway, I don't know, her birth plans always make things way more complicated than they have to be.

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18 minutes ago, lil_secret said:

Jessa. For the love of God. Just start giving birth in the hospital! She has a history of bleeding excessively after birth and having to be carted off by the squad, but still insists on giving birth on that big brown couch. If she always ends up in the hospital anyway, I don't know, her birth plans always make things way more complicated than they have to be.

To me, Jessa has generally presented as very stubborn and at times, a know it all. I think the next delivery will really tell. If Jessa chooses another home birth, I think if would be a very selfish and irresponsible decision. Maybe she thought her first post delivery hemorrhage was a fluke? After 2 such experiences though, she no longer has the luxury of birthing outside a facility.

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I don't know if this is the right thread to ask, but do the Duggars do any baby blessings or baptisms? I saw one of the Rod kids had a baptism, and I think Willow Balka had a blessing. Do the Duggars do something similar? 

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17 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

I don't know if this is the right thread to ask, but do the Duggars do any baby blessings or baptisms? I saw one of the Rod kids had a baptism, and I think Willow Balka had a blessing. Do the Duggars do something similar? 

They sometimes do a baby dedication which is essentially a parental commitment to raise the child in church, but they're baptist and thus wouldn't do an infant baptism. 

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1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

To me, Jessa has generally presented as very stubborn and at times, a know it all. I think the next delivery will really tell. If Jessa chooses another home birth, I think if would be a very selfish and irresponsible decision. Maybe she thought her first post delivery hemorrhage was a fluke? After 2 such experiences though, she no longer has the luxury of birthing outside a facility.

I know she had a good experience with Henry's birth at home but (IIRC) still had excessive bleeding and had to be carted off. Idk... It just would make me SO ANXIOUS and scared to keep being in that danger over and over at home! Which defeats the purpose of a home birth, to feel relaxed in a familiar setting.

I absolutely understand what makes a HB appealing, and I've had friends who have done home births and loved it but their pregnancies were low risk (there's always some risk even with low risk) and had no complications post delivery. With her history, if I were in her position, I would feel MORE anxious at the idea of giving birth at home and risking losing blood.

 

I am sure she will choose another home birth with the next one.

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Bella's Birth Special

Part 1

Spoiler

Nov 7 11:25AM
Lauren's had some contractions, but they've since stopped. They're going to the Swanson's house to walk up and down the stairs to make labor progress. She also power walks on the treadmill. They head home for a bit. It's 6PM and it's been almost 24 hours since her contractions started. The contractions are getting closer and strong enough to make them decided to the hospital. She's admitted and put in a room. She's 3cm dilated. Lana and Michelle arrive to help with the labor.

Lauren's having back labor and Joisah is trying to put pressure on her back to help with the pain. Lauren gets an epidural to try help move the labor forward. She almost faints after getting the epidural due to her blood pressure dropping. Josiah tries to help her breathe through it. She's now 30 hours into labor. 

Her blood pressure stabilizes but she still feels a little dizzy and has back pain. The doctor comes in to make sure the epidural worked. He decides to come back in bit and later gives her a second epidural since she's still in a lot of pain. The doctor moves an ice pack around her legs and she can still feel it. He wants to still wait before giving her a third dose. The nurses checks how far dilated she is and says she has awhile to go, still.

Part 2

Spoiler

38 hours into labor and Lauren rates her pain at a 7/10, which is better than the 10/10 she was before. She given something to help her relax since both of her epidurals failed. The doctor breaks her water to try and move the labor forward. Michelle is on the phone with someone and says Lauren is 8-9cm dilated and 100% effaced. She's lying down to encourage the baby to not face her back. Michelle and Lana are trying to speak her through relaxing and leaning on a pillow. Josiah sits on the bed with her and puts counter pressure on her back during contractions. 

Lauren is ready to push after 46 hours in labor. It sounds like Jill is also there. It shows almost the entirety of her pushing. Not much to really say. Bella is born, Josiah and Lauren kiss. I will say Josiah seemed to be very attentive to Lauren through the two days she was in labor.

 

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1 hour ago, llg1234 said:

Lauren's had some contractions, but they've since stopped.

Why do the reality show folks never acknowledge prodromal labor and that it doesn't actually count in the length of real labor?

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@SweetJuly

Thank you for answering!

These are the critical questions about child birth that matter to me ?

... Seriously though, I also get the tummy yucky with my periods - which prompted the question.

If possible, being emptied out seems nice. I realize that a whole lot of stuff can happen during labor and eventually you can wind up not caring what the hell is happening - just get Junior out!

 

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@AliceInFundyland

Childbirth is lots of things, it's amazing and magical, but it's also a very physical experience that can be quite raw and rough. I do think it's important to be able to ask these questions and get honest answers - after all, it's concerns many women share, and it's always better to have it all out in the open so we don't feel too embarrassed about things happening to our bodies that are natural and normal.

Edited by SweetJuly
sorry if I used women, I am a non-native speaker and unsure about the correct terminology to use "people who give birth"(?)
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With child 3 I had 2 epidurals during labour, and neither of the worked. That was an induced drip birth and tbh the pain was so extreme I dont remember very much about it. 

I has an epidural with both child 1 and 2, neither of them worked properly but just enough to take the edge off, again the were induced drip births.

Child 4 was homebirth so doesnt count in this story!

I was diagnosed Ehlers-Danlos 3 when youngest was 3, at the age of 33. One of the many issues with that syndrome is that local anaesthetic doesnt work. That explains why dental work was painful and why the epidurals dont work!

Im due to have an ablation at the end of January and because local doesnt work Im having to have it done under general.

 

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Re: the covenant marriage, at the beginning of the SiRen wedding ceremony, Dwain Swanson says:

"What you promise today is a sacred vow and a covenant between you and God and must be lived by today, tomorrow and all the tomorrows that follow thereafter until death do you part." 

He then says:

"Do you, this day before God and these witnesses, understand the weight of this covenant?" 

Does this mean it is officially a covenant marriage or is it just a thing fundies say at weddings? 

Edited by HideousGreenShirt
Riffles
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Jill & Derick were really vocal about having a covenant marriage, as if they were fucking perfect and all that crap.  I didn't hear anyone else say anything about it. I wonder if looking at the mess that was the Dillard marriage at the time Jinger, Joy & Joe got married didn't sway them away from that? The Dillard's were on a bit more stable ground when SiRen married. 

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1 hour ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

Re: the covenant marriage, at the beginning of the SiRen wedding ceremony, Dwain Swanson says:

"What you promise today is a sacred vow and a covenant between you and God and must be lived by today, tomorrow and all the tomorrows that follow thereafter until death do you part." 

He then says:

"Do you, this day before God and these witnesses, understand the weight of this covenant?" 

Does this mean it is officially a covenant marriage or is it just a thing fundies say at weddings? 

Arkansas is one of the three states that has covenant marriage. Pope County has a good website on it: https://www.popecountyar.com/covmaractandform.html

It’s probably official for them, but in other states, it’s just something fundies say at weddings.

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It's pretty common for even non-fundy Christian ceremonies to include some mention of marriage being a covenant between God and the couple.  We can't tell from what he said if they have a legal covenant marriage (as defined by the state of Arkansas).  

Does anyone know if Ben and Jessa have one?

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Finally got around to watching the last episode

1) Do Jessa and Ben know they can still go to the hospital even if their attending midwife is out of town? I mean, they'll get who ever is on call but they can do it. Also do you think the paramedics in this town keep track of the due dates? like "Oh X is due on x day, better have someone ready to take them in cause we know they won't just go on their own". I can't believe they'd risk a homebirth again after Spurgeon. Have any of the duggar girls besides Anna had a successful home-birth that didn't involve a 911 call? 

2) 10 points to Lauren for making her sister in laws new baby about her, again. 

3) Really really loved how Kendra and Joe's doctor said "lets look at the sex of the baby". I mean I'm sure he shares their prolife views and what not, but I did catch that little bit of phrasing. 

4) It totally was the season of girls but I really hate the phrase "All us pregnant girls". I don't know why it just seems infantalizing of grown women. 

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7 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

Spurgeon: "If you take the bow off she turns into a boy." Brilliant.

In my head he says it with sarcasm and an eyeroll. :laughing-rollingred:

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13 hours ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

Finally got around to watching the last episode

1) Do Jessa and Ben know they can still go to the hospital even if their attending midwife is out of town? I mean, they'll get who ever is on call but they can do it. Also do you think the paramedics in this town keep track of the due dates? like "Oh X is due on x day, better have someone ready to take them in cause we know they won't just go on their own". I can't believe they'd risk a homebirth again after Spurgeon. Have any of the duggar girls besides Anna had a successful home-birth that didn't involve a 911 call? 

2) 10 points to Lauren for making her sister in laws new baby about her, again. 

3) Really really loved how Kendra and Joe's doctor said "lets look at the sex of the baby". I mean I'm sure he shares their prolife views and what not, but I did catch that little bit of phrasing. 

4) It totally was the season of girls but I really hate the phrase "All us pregnant girls". I don't know why it just seems infantalizing of grown women. 

1 -A family member hemorrhaged after her 1st child’s birth in the hospital. She had her second at home, and the mid-wife gave her some sort of shot - I think- when she was bleeding too much after the birth, so they were prepared for the possibility. I wonder if that’s not a thing in Arkansas? Or maybe she was bleeding too much and it didn’t help enough? 
 

2- Lauren and Jessa had shared the exact due date, I can’t blame her for getting emotional. She appeared to try to keep it low key at the hospital.

 


 

 

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@Mama Mia The difference is your family member had a TRAINED Certified NURSE MIDWIFE, Jessa had a fundy trained midwife, meaning a woman who's been to a shitton of births, nothing more. 

@VeryNikeSeamstress I DIED when Spurgeon said that, I was like YES little boy, that is the truth, that bow keeps the penis from growing. 

@Peaches-n-Beans I rolled my eyes when Jessa gave the same excuse as Anna about having the baby at home "their attending" was off. BULL SHIT, you'd always planned a home birth, stop it. 

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The CPM midwives and not even licensed midwives the Duggars have used in the past are not allowed to prescribe medications.  Anything they give must be prescribed by a real licensed medical professional and obtained in advance.  That means the patient has to be actually seen by a doctor or nurse midwife who isn't going to hand over a prescription for pitocin to be given by a lay midwife. They're going to tell the person to give birth in the hospital where they can obtain proper care.

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1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

1 -A family member hemorrhaged after her 1st child’s birth in the hospital. She had her second at home, and the mid-wife gave her some sort of shot - I think- when she was bleeding too much after the birth, so they were prepared for the possibility. I wonder if that’s not a thing in Arkansas? Or maybe she was bleeding too much and it didn’t help enough? 
 

2- Lauren and Jessa had shared the exact due date, I can’t blame her for getting emotional. She appeared to try to keep it low key at the hospital.

 


 

 

Firstly I just want it out there that postpartum hemorrhage is one of the leading causes of maternal death in America.  I think it's deeply irresponsible to go for a homebirth if you have a history of PPH They have an incredibly high rate of recurrence as well (I've heard 50% chance for uterine atony).  It is not a complication, or level of risk, that people should be so comfortable ignoring.  (Source had a PPH and needed 6 units of blood, almost died- choosing a c-section this time because of the risks of it happening again). I'm surprised that a midwife could consider someone with that history low risk enough for a homebirth. 

Midwives can sometimes use pitocin for hemorrhage.  This is controversial because midwives are not allowed to use pit for induction or to help contractions.  So in some states midwives have no access to pit, in others they can have a small quantity for PPH.  Which means that some midwives are legally barred from being properly prepared for a PPH.  Those midwives absolutly shouldn't be taking on patients with a history of PPH.    

A shot of pit is only going to work if your uterus needs a little help contracting back down.  It wont do any good for a severe bleed, and it can't replace the blood you already lost.  In the hospital it's one of the first things they do for PPH, they also have a lot of other resources if the pit isn't enough.  If I had had a homebirth, with the PPH I had, I would have died. 


For those wondering usually the bleeding is from where the placenta detaches.  This wound is the size of a dinner plate until the uterus contracts back down.  If everything is going well the uterus will contract on it's own.  If that doesn't happen it's pitocin and very painful uterine massage to try and get it right.  If that doesn't work they shove a balloon and/or sponges in there and stanch the bleeding that way.  If that doesn't work you're off to surgery.
 https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/postpartum-hemorrhage

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