Duggars Raided by Homeland Security

[ViolaSebastian]

Apropros of nothing at this point, it would be immensely satisfying to see Josh Duggar perp walked.

[JenniferJuniper]

The story made People.  Huge. Couple that with the "to the best of our knowledge" no one in the family is being investigated, and I think odds are high that Josh has been a very bad boy. Again.

[OGEmoji]

40 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Do we know for sure where Josh and his family live?  If he has his own separate place on the compound, the Duggars' "as far as we know" comment may make some sense as a dodge.  They didn't raid "our" house, but who knows what goes on over "there". 

I just think that there is no way Jim Bob doesn't know what went down. He keeps a close watch on all his childrens' goings-on and he has to know that one of his kids and their business were raided.

[Limepickle]

The caveat 'to the best of our knowledge' really stood out to me too. It feels like it was very deliberately placed there to give them some wiggle room later if anything is uncovered. 

[neuroticcat]

4 minutes ago, Limepickle said:

The caveat 'to the best of our knowledge' really stood out to me too. It feels like it was very deliberately placed there to give them some wiggle room later if anything is uncovered. 

I think it also totally makes sense given the last go round when they all defended Josh and then the Ashley Madison news broke. 

I do think whatever else is going on they probably learned from that to hedge their answers a bit.

[Iamtheway]

Dammit! I have work to do today! 

[Buzzard]

So, as much as I would LOVE to gather my popcorn and scrutinize courtroom sketches of Joshly, I think this ultimately will be a big nothingburger.  

Homeland Security (if that even is the correct agency) is a very large umbrella that encompasses agencies from  Border Protection and ICE all the way to the more mundane (for our snark purposes) Plum Island Animal Disease Center (see also - lyme disease theories).  They also include the Secret Service, FEMA, and TSA.

Unlike in the movies, unless they were executing significant warrants, they dont show up with Humvees and vans that say "HOMELAND SECURITY" on the side of them, block of streets and take people's cell phones to prevent them from posting on Reddit.  

If we believe the rumors, an agent of some federal sort showed up at a Duggar property.  If they had conducted a "raid" people would have noticed.  Its not like they are low profile and local law enforcement would have known about it.  The Duggars have been involved with campaigns in the past.  We're gearing up for another doozy.  It would not be out of the realm of possibility that Smuggles or other J'whatevers are being vetted/interviewed with respect to security clearance.  It is also not out of the realm of possibility that there is a vehicle on one of their car lots, purchased at auction, that any one of the agencies under the HLS umbrella is interested in.  They may have been asking for documents, pictures, or the car itself.  I think those possibilities or something of that sort are a lot more plausible than Joshly running a human trafficking ring out of his basement,  having anything to do with child porn, money laundering, or any of the other rumors we've heard.  He's a piece of work but I think thats a bit far fetched.

NO ONE WAS ARRESTED. Thats huge for the Feds.  They dont come investigate you for any of the crimes I just mentioned, take your computers,  and tell you to have a nice day and they'll be back if they find something.  It just doesnt work like that.  At the very least he would have been detained/questioned and again, that would have gotten out.   As for the fact that local media is covering it... I've seen local media report things as fact based entirely on facebook posts which turned out to be as close to fact as the Duggars stick to timelines on their show. 

 

[CarrotCake]

I have been trying to find more news all day but I hate how I have to wait until my evening before we actually get more.

And then tomorrow morning I know I have so much reading to catch up on.

Sometimes I really hate the time difference ?

[Scrabblemaster]

I consider to quit my language cours this evening. I am only on page three of the thread and I have to work. Do I need to sleep? I don't think so. Who needs sleep...

[JenniferJuniper]

18 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

NO ONE WAS ARRESTED. Thats huge for the Feds.  They dont come investigate you for any of the crimes I just mentioned, take your computers,  and tell you to have a nice day and they'll be back if they find something.  It just doesnt work like that.  

 

When my cousin's home was raided in the middle of the night by the FBI a few years back, his wife was not arrested until a number of months later.  It was all part of the investigation that led to her arrest.  Computers were seized but everything else in the house was just catelogued.   Granted, every situation is different and she was charged with white color crimes, but it was a long time. 

[SassyPants]

21 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

So, as much as I would LOVE to gather my popcorn and scrutinize courtroom sketches of Joshly, I think this ultimately will be a big nothingburger.  

Homeland Security (if that even is the correct agency) is a very large umbrella that encompasses agencies from  Border Protection and ICE all the way to the more mundane (for our snark purposes) Plum Island Animal Disease Center (see also - lyme disease theories).  They also include the Secret Service, FEMA, and TSA.

Unlike in the movies, unless they were executing significant warrants, they dont show up with Humvees and vans that say "HOMELAND SECURITY" on the side of them, block of streets and take people's cell phones to prevent them from posting on Reddit.  

If we believe the rumors, an agent of some federal sort showed up at a Duggar property.  If they had conducted a "raid" people would have noticed.  Its not like they are low profile and local law enforcement would have known about it.  The Duggars have been involved with campaigns in the past.  We're gearing up for another doozy.  It would not be out of the realm of possibility that Smuggles or other J'whatevers are being vetted/interviewed with respect to security clearance.  It is also not out of the realm of possibility that there is a vehicle on one of their car lots, purchased at auction, that any one of the agencies under the HLS umbrella is interested in.  They may have been asking for documents, pictures, or the car itself.  I think those possibilities or something of that sort are a lot more plausible than Joshly running a human trafficking ring out of his basement,  having anything to do with child porn, money laundering, or any of the other rumors we've heard.  He's a piece of work but I think thats a bit far fetched.

NO ONE WAS ARRESTED. Thats huge for the Feds.  They dont come investigate you for any of the crimes I just mentioned, take your computers,  and tell you to have a nice day and they'll be back if they find something.  It just doesnt work like that.  At the very least he would have been detained/questioned and again, that would have gotten out.   As for the fact that local media is covering it... I've seen local media report things as fact based entirely on facebook posts which turned out to be as close to fact as the Duggars stick to timelines on their show. 

 

While I agree with most of this, if this visit was tangentially related to the Duggars, like authorities wanting to get info about a car in one of their many lots, wouldn’t the Duggars have responded differently? If this was something benign and not directly related to the family, I think the Duggar response would have been less scripted.

[church_of_dog]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

My advice is to never take what random people on the internet have to say at face value. So many people have no problem asserting their misconceptions or fantasies as fact.

[DarkAnts]

27 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

So, as much as I would LOVE to gather my popcorn and scrutinize courtroom sketches of Joshly, I think this ultimately will be a big nothingburger.  

Homeland Security (if that even is the correct agency) is a very large umbrella that encompasses agencies from  Border Protection and ICE all the way to the more mundane (for our snark purposes) Plum Island Animal Disease Center (see also - lyme disease theories).  They also include the Secret Service, FEMA, and TSA.

Unlike in the movies, unless they were executing significant warrants, they dont show up with Humvees and vans that say "HOMELAND SECURITY" on the side of them, block of streets and take people's cell phones to prevent them from posting on Reddit.  

If we believe the rumors, an agent of some federal sort showed up at a Duggar property.  If they had conducted a "raid" people would have noticed.  Its not like they are low profile and local law enforcement would have known about it.  The Duggars have been involved with campaigns in the past.  We're gearing up for another doozy.  It would not be out of the realm of possibility that Smuggles or other J'whatevers are being vetted/interviewed with respect to security clearance.  It is also not out of the realm of possibility that there is a vehicle on one of their car lots, purchased at auction, that any one of the agencies under the HLS umbrella is interested in.  They may have been asking for documents, pictures, or the car itself.  I think those possibilities or something of that sort are a lot more plausible than Joshly running a human trafficking ring out of his basement,  having anything to do with child porn, money laundering, or any of the other rumors we've heard.  He's a piece of work but I think thats a bit far fetched.

NO ONE WAS ARRESTED. Thats huge for the Feds.  They dont come investigate you for any of the crimes I just mentioned, take your computers,  and tell you to have a nice day and they'll be back if they find something.  It just doesnt work like that.  At the very least he would have been detained/questioned and again, that would have gotten out.   As for the fact that local media is covering it... I've seen local media report things as fact based entirely on facebook posts which turned out to be as close to fact as the Duggars stick to timelines on their show. 

 

Washakie Renewable Energy (Kingston clan) was raided by a federal agency. They took computers and documents.  No one was arrested at the time. The arrests came about a year later. 

[quiversR4hunting]

I went to bed when the server was checking stuff, my clue to take a night-time Tylenol, get rid of my pain and sleep. So now I am well rested to watch this unfold

The search of Josh's business - I agree with others, everything in the Duggar world seems to link back to Jim Bob and all his dealings. Josh's business could hold the server(s) (if they have them) for all of the Duggar enterprises. The Duggars have been on TV long enough that them having their own servers for their businesses is not out of the realm of possibilities. Homeland is a big organization so it is interesting to see that they are the ones doing the "ongoing investigation". 

5 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

When my cousin's home was raided in the middle of the night by the FBI a few years back, his wife was not arrested until a number of months later.  It was all part of the investigation that led to her arrest.  Computers were seized but everything else in the house was just catelogued.   Granted, every situation is different and she was charged with white color crimes, but it was a long time. 

I agree, things in the court system and in the investigation period takes time. It isn't fast and quick like NCIS, Blue bloods, Law & Order, etc. 4 teens got arrested in my area for making threats to area schools. One teen is 17 and went to adult jail (all others went to juvie), that teen bonded out for $500. People are up in arms saying the punishment isn't strict enough. The people don't know the difference between bond and hearing and sentence. I also don't get how people thought the 17 yo was sent to trial and convicted within 48 hours of being arrested. Long story to say, I agree, we could be waiting awhile for any arrests (if any happen).

[forgetmenow]

11 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

When my cousin's home was raided in the middle of the night by the FBI a few years back, his wife was not arrested until a number of months later.  It was all part of the investigation that led to her arrest.  Computers were seized but everything else in the house was just catelogued.   Granted, every situation is different and she was charged with white color crimes, but it was a long time. 

A friend of a friend's house was raided, stuff was taken and the husband wasn't arrested until months later for a federal (non-white collar) crime.  Not saying this is the case here, at all, though.

[nelliebelle1197]

58 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

When my cousin's home was raided in the middle of the night by the FBI a few years back, his wife was not arrested until a number of months later.  It was all part of the investigation that led to her arrest.  Computers were seized but everything else in the house was just catelogued.   Granted, every situation is different and she was charged with white color crimes, but it was a long time. 

I tend to trust what @Buzzard says about criminal matters, to be honest.

[Glasgowghirl]

I think whatever is being investigated is going to be a long investigation and we probably wont see any charges anytime soon, if ever. I wonder what Jim Bob and Michelle will do to take media attention off this, they may try and announce a courtship to divert attention. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Could this be the Duggars playing fast and loose with definitions again? Being a person of interest isn't the same as being a suspect.. Being questioned isn't the same as being arrested. I feel like there's wiggle room in his statement for things related to an investigation to have happened or still be happening.

ETA: I have to admit, I'm out for blood on this one, and it may be affecting my ability to judge the situation. I *want* Josh Duggar to have accountability for his actions, as I imagine many of us do.

Edited November 20, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Cleopatra7]

I agree that if charges are pending, we won’t get any news about it for a couple of months or so. However, the Duggars’ behavior this past weekend has been very suspicious for absolutely nothing out of the ordinary to be happening and they’re still oddly cagey. Part of this could be that they are still terrible at PR despite being in the public eye for 15+ years, and have to play the persecuted fundie part when a more neutrally worded statement would have been better. I think something big is about to go down, but we the public won’t know what that is for a while.

[MadameOvary]

Is this the storm Derick said was coming when he advised TLC to "lawyer up"?

Edited November 20, 2019 by MadameOvary

[Hashtag Blessed]

6 minutes ago, MadameOvary said:

Is this the storm Derick said was coming when he advised TLC to "lawyer up"?

Doubt it. I think Derick barely knows his elbow from his asshole so I really can’t believe he had any knowledge about anything shady. If he did I think he would have blabbed long before now, since he’s been openly bitter towards JimBob for years now. But who knows! Maybe he did have info and was bitter enough to tip off the feds? 
 

39 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Could this be the Duggars playing fast and loose with definitions again? Being a person of interest isn't the same as being a suspect.. Being questioned isn't the same as being arrested. I feel like there's wiggle room in his statement for things related to an investigation to have happened or still be happening.

ETA: I have to admit, I'm out for blood on this one, and it may be affecting my ability to judge the situation. I *want* Josh Duggar to have accountability for his actions, as I imagine many of us do.

Same! I want so badly to see Joshly and his horrible parents actually held accountable for SOMETHING. ANYTHING!

While my head says @Buzzard and everyone else who says it’s probably nothing big are right, my heart says PLEASE LET HIM BE ARRESTED I WANT THIS EVIL FAMILY TO BE PUBLICLY SHAMED FOR THEIR CRIMES

*ahem* but we should keep our heads and not jump to conclusions yet. We know almost nothing so far. 

[ViolaSebastian]

14 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

And from their website, the types of crimes HSI covers include:

International art and antiquity theft.

 

Okay. Clearly what's going on here is that Jim Bob and the Hobby Lobby/Museum of the Bible people managed to sneak the Ark of the Covenant out of war-torn Syria and keep it in the storage building where Ben stayed before he married Jessa. 

There. I solved it. We can all go home now. 

10 minutes ago, Hashtag Blessed said:

Doubt it. I think Derick barely knows his elbow from his asshole so I really can’t believe he had any knowledge about anything shady. If he did I think he would have blabbed long before now, since he’s been openly bitter towards JimBob for years now. But who knows! Maybe he did have info and was bitter enough to tip off the feds? 
 

Same! I want so badly to see Joshly and his horrible parents actually held accountable for SOMETHING. ANYTHING!

While my head says @Buzzard and everyone else who says it’s probably nothing big are right, my heart says PLEASE LET HIM BE ARRESTED I WANT THIS EVIL FAMILY TO BE PUBLICLY SHAMED FOR THEIR CRIMES

*ahem* but we should keep our heads and not jump to conclusions yet. We know almost nothing so far. 

Exactly! My rational side tells me that this could take awhile or be nothing at all. My id, though, wants to pass out the pitchforks and burn the place down. 

 

[Xan]

41 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I agree that if charges are pending, we won’t get any news about it for a couple of months or so. However, the Duggars’ behavior this past weekend has been very suspicious for absolutely nothing out of the ordinary to be happening and they’re still oddly cagey. Part of this could be that they are still terrible at PR despite being in the public eye for 15+ years, and have to play the persecuted fundie part when a more neutrally worded statement would have been better. I think something big is about to go down, but we the public won’t know what that is for a while.

I think they're being cagey because Counting On is still airing weekly.  Jim Bob wants to keep that sweet television money coming in for as long as he can.  If there's a chance that anyone gets indicted, he knows that the network will pull the show pretty quickly.

[Buzzard]

Lets say you have a friend, a church member, or a prayer partner who runs a questionably sketchy missioncation "ministry."  Maybe you've flown said friend and their "donations" somewhere.  Maybe you sold them a car.  Who knows.  Lets say instead you have another church friend that maybe sponsors "exchange students" for their homeskool and maybe doesnt do the paperwork right...  There are a million different shenanigans that the Duggars could be involved in that would elicit the vague response we've seen.  They arent going to come out and say "ICE agents investigating our friend came by and asked us if we knew anything about his federal crimes."

If a search warrant was executed I have to believe SOMEONE would have seen a federal presence and taken a picture.  Could they get implicated in something later?  Sure, but I doubt it.  I truly believe this was either an interview or a request for cooperation and will not result in any Duggars wearing silver bracelets. 

[Alisamer]

My first thought was "Well, JB has always seemed sleazy..." followed by "Ugh, maybe it's Josh again."

13 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Well. There are some wack a doo and very militant as well as heavily armed End times “Christian” militia groups out there. With the Duggar’s love for Guns and Jesus and playing soldier There might well be connections that way as to Red Flag HS.

That's where my brain went about third down the line - there are so many of them now that if JB started leaning farther and farther that way they'd have their own militia in no time. That's probably also affected by a show I watched last night about a couple brothers who were raised strict fundamentalist and became arsonists and murderers for God (read: a two man nazi-style hate group), though.

I suspect this will turn out to be little or nothing, but I kind of hope it's Jim-Bob getting busted for some financial shenanigans. It's probably Josh, though. It's always Josh.

And I bet Michelle thinks Josh's problems are the result of the couple years as a baby they were just regular Christian and not as crazy fundie.