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Duggars Raided by Homeland Security


usmcmom

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Apparently Josh confessed after touching his two older sisters, therefore admitting he knew it was wrong. He then went on to molest the two younger girls. If JB really told the Kellers and Anna the full story, and they had no problems giving their daughter to him, then they are as sick as the Duggars. A five year old for heaven's sake. I think the Keller parents got a whitewashed story, which was probably filtered even more to Anna.

BUT. We don't know that Homeland security was there for Josh. I need more information.

And Josh is still a sleaze.

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3 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I don't know enough about ALERT to say whether it crosses into militia territory, but I do know I've never noticed any of their graduates having much skill with firearms, or just being all that scrappy. The gun nut dudes I know don't fuck around. Those guys have arsenals, survival skills, and are very skilled shooters. Most had extensive military experience. Meanwhile, I'm like 90% sure I can take Josh Duggar in a fight. 

I'm more of an occasional lurker but came back for the Jed thing and now this?! Well, here I am.

On ALERT, I really don't know much about it, even from a former ATI/IBLP family. I was born with the wrong genitalia to participate and I only have a sister. I CAN tell you about some of what they offer for girls, which is basically nothing. I once did a weekend (I think in Indianapolis?) with my mom. I can't remember what it was called. We learned about setting tables for fancy occasions and why you should give your heart to your dad (gross) until you get married. That's it. 

I don't really feel sorry for Anna. Even when my parents were at their weirdest, my sister and I always talked about how we wouldn't live like that when we were older. Maybe it was because we were around non-fundie people most of the time, but we always knew that life was messed up. Surely Anna knows. Fortunately, my parents were, at "best," fundie-lite. They completely stepped away from all of that when I was about 12 years old, and to this day won't talk about it.

58 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

 

I always thought that JB could be quite formidable either by himself or with attorneys in tow when it comes with dealing with complaints / claims.   He's likely gotten away with a lot because some will not want to deal with him because of the immense hassle.  

I don't live in NWA, but if I did, I would not want to do business with any Duggar owned corporation or with any of them personally.  

I do currently live in NWA. I don't think that people in the area care for the Duggars, in general. I've seen some of them here and there, but for the most part, I do not think we are in the same circles. ;) The only things that I'm aware of are the rental properties, car lot(s) and Amy's store. What other corporations do they own?

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36 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

I have never believed that. Yes, JB talked about some kind of sexual sin with the Kellers. He had to do it, because both families were involved with ATI and there were rumours about Josh. But in no way it was the complete truth, nor the sisters were mentioned. JB needed Josh to be married urgently. Kellers were willing to marry off their daughters and were open to forgive a typical hot teenager behaviour or even worse, but molesting sisters is another level!

How do you know that though? 

The behavior of the people involved seems to contradict that notion. Her parents didn’t freak out and she kept having kids with him and stayed when that came out. 

21 minutes ago, ati_escapee said:

I'm more of an occasional lurker but came back for the Jed thing and now this?! Well, here I am.

On ALERT, I really don't know much about it, even from a former ATI/IBLP family. I was born with the wrong genitalia to participate and I only have a sister. I CAN tell you about some of what they offer for girls, which is basically nothing. I once did a weekend (I think in Indianapolis?) with my mom. I can't remember what it was called. We learned about setting tables for fancy occasions and why you should give your heart to your dad (gross) until you get married. That's it. 

I don't really feel sorry for Anna. Even when my parents were at their weirdest, my sister and I always talked about how we wouldn't live like that when we were older. Maybe it was because we were around non-fundie people most of the time, but we always knew that life was messed up. Surely Anna knows. Fortunately, my parents were, at "best," fundie-lite. They completely stepped away from all of that when I was about 12 years old, and to this day won't talk about it.

I do currently live in NWA. I don't think that people in the area care for the Duggars, in general. I've seen some of them here and there, but for the most part, I do not think we are in the same circles. ;) The only things that I'm aware of are the rental properties, car lot(s) and Amy's store. What other corporations do they own?

Except Anna has never been fundie lite and she has never been “around non-fundie people most of the time” so I’m not sure comparing your knowledge and life experience to Anna Duggar’s makes a lot of sense. You know what I mean? 

She grew up insanely sheltered and never knew different like you did. 

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47 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

That is just it, Anna doesn't get it at all. She comes off like the entitled fundie who thinks everyone will cover for her. When I said she "trusts her parents" I meant that she trusts them to help her out with decisions when Josh screws up. It's like she needs their permission for everything she does even though she is married.

Also, I believe she was estranged from Daniel for some time. A few years ago Daniel had gone on long rants blasting his parents and family for disowning him and speaking out about the dangers. Knowing the Duggars and Kellers they probably spun this into a fucked up story about Daniel going to Hell and giving into the devil. That's the way I viewed it when I found out. I don't think she was fully estranged from Rebekah and Susanna as there seemed to be some communication. But, back when Susanna was pregnant it is rumored that Jim Bob had a major issue with the family maintaining contact. While Anna is a Duggar by marriage I have a feeling Jim Bob's actions caused Anna and Josh to limit their communication as they felt it would look bad or something like that. 

As for Anna in general I think she is terrified to leave Josh and the Duggar compound. If she does it will be a highly publicized divorce in the fundie community. Plus this will be the third Keller child to go through a divorce. To add insult to injury the Duggars are going to be in damage control mode that would affect Anna in  the long run by either taking the children away or her ability to find a job. On top of that she has limited education by being raised in a bubble of doing everything everyone tells you to do and you will have a good life blessed by God. Her whole life is warped by her parents messed up beliefs.

To the bolded, can you specify where you found this information or heard or saw these rumors?  Or is this only speculation or wild guesses?

Let's just say that your claims don't jive with my recollections of what was made public at the time.  Or the photographic evidence of various Keller family reunions over the years.  Or what Keller family members have said when they visited us on FJ in the past.

 

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Someone on FJ posted a particularly soppy photo of Ma and Pa Keller and referred to them as "perpetually grinning idiots".  I think it was at the time that Josh was outed for molesting his sisters and we were discussing the Keller's choices for their daughter's spouses.  I wish I could remember who it was because they deserve a Pulitzer.

I am sorry the Kellers ever produced children.   I know that's harsh but I feel strongly about it.  They've relegated most of their daughters and daughters-in-law to lives of patriarchal servitude, zero autonomy and constant, wearing child bearing.  All in service of mean spirited, hateful god.

Edited by Carol
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Please consider the source in this - it's a Blind Item and may include fictional bits and/or exaggeration but CDAN has yet another likely Duggar BI.  (which if I'm reading this right might include the Bateseses)

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2019/11/todays-blind-items-connection.html

Guesses on the smaller family indicate the Chryslies (sp???)

 

 

 

Edited by clueliss
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7 minutes ago, clueliss said:

Please consider the source in this - it's a Blind Item and may include fictional bits and/or exaggeration but CDAN has yet another likely Duggar BI.  (which if I'm reading this right might include the Bateseses)

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2019/11/todays-blind-items-connection.html

Guesses on the smaller family indicate the Chryslies (sp???)

 

 

 

Do the Chrisleys know the Duggars? It seems weird to me that they'd be close enough to know about potential human trafficking. 

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2 hours ago, SillyDillys said:

I think if this scandal involves children (dear god I hope not) anna will leave him. It's hard to say. Something that killed me was when anna spoke about Josh's infidelity on CO how she said she didnt want to rely on her feelings cause she would turn a mess into a disaster. GIRL WTF I understand you have to stay strong for your kids, but come on! You gave this man the best years of your life! You took your vows seriously and raised his children (whether he wanted them or not) he treated you like crap. (I think josh cares for her on some degree, but he doesn't love her) he humiliated you! And her moron owners no doubt told her it was her fault. How fucked up is it that you feel you can't have your feelings because jesus?

Okay I lied.. i feel a tiny bit sorry for her

This idea, that you can’t trust or indulge your feeling, is actually taught pretty hard-core throughout all of Evangelicalism. The verse used to justify it is Jeremiah 17:9, “ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

so if, for example, your husband cheats on you, or your best friend has been telling lies about you behind your back, or your pastor has been molesting kids, you cannot choose a response based on your feelings about it. This is triple-whammy true if the perpetrator has apologized. You can actually become fearful of your emotions, knowing that if you follow your heart, it’ll lead you to Very Bad Things.

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2 minutes ago, clueliss said:

@ViolaSebastian

That was the part that I didn't get.  

Welll...here's Todd in 2015 defending the Duggars and giving advice to them...so at the very least the Chrisley's know OF them, anyway.

https://www.thewrap.com/chrisley-knows-best-todd-chrisley-duggar-family-scandal-tlc/

https://read-and-watch.github.io/videos/q3DJL0D9UFs/index.html

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Wait...is that blind item suggesting that the Bates are involved in money laundering?

Also, do the Duggars and Christley's associate with each other?  I'm having a hard time imagining that they do.

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3 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Wait...is that blind item suggesting that the Bates are involved in money laundering?

Also, do the Duggars and Christley's associate with each other?  I'm having a hard time imagining that they do.

The Chrisleys are the obvious choice for a reality family involved in money laundering, but I can't imagine them knowing the Duggars. I don't think they mean the Bates, as the Bates would be a similarly sized family and not a "smaller" one, as the item suggests. Maybe the Duggars are doing the shell corporation thing the Chrisleys did, though. I wouldn't be shocked at that.

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3 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Wait...is that blind item suggesting that the Bates are involved in money laundering?

Also, do the Duggars and Christley's associate with each other?  I'm having a hard time imagining that they do.

Yes, I think the ‘other’ family with ‘issues of their own’ = Bates

I have a hard time believing there is a link between the Duggars and the Chrisleys, but that would be epic if there was ?.

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Here's the blind item. It says "not the family most closely identified" with the Duggars, which I take to mean the Bates:

Quote

This massive reality family ultimately has only themselves to blame for the world of hurt they find themselves in. This is what happens when you bring in people from other countries and broker them to your friends in return for payment. However, a lot of this only came to light because of a different reality family. Not the reality family most closely identified with the massive one, although they have their own set of issues going on related to money laundering. No, it is the family that is much smaller in scale but has been beset by their own legal issues as of late. When investigators started in on the smaller family, the smaller family mentioned the larger family. That, in turn led to one branch of the government going in which opened the huge trafficking can of worms.

It's poorly written, though, so I can see where people get to thinking the Bates are money laundering.

Edited by ViolaSebastian
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3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Josh publicly admitted to cheating on Anna.

Yeah it always felt very vague to me, though. Cheating/unfaithfulness can be a whole range of things, and in conservative circles even more so. I didn’t follow the fallout much. Did he every publicly say he had sex with someone else?

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1 hour ago, ati_escapee said:

I do currently live in NWA. I don't think that people in the area care for the Duggars, in general. I've seen some of them here and there, but for the most part, I do not think we are in the same circles. ;) The only things that I'm aware of are the rental properties, car lot(s) and Amy's store. What other corporations do they own?

They might just be on paper as a buffer. In the town I grew up in a fundie family business did that. One of their employees got horribly injured and sued (I think for medical bills but idk) because they weren't up to osha standards. They stayed afloat by passing all the liability onto one of the brothers who had to go bankrupt and iirc lost his house. Not 100% clear on the details, but their company was a tangle of self-made titles and unprofessional family/church members doing mostly untrained manual labor. I'll never hire a company that looks even remotely fundie for all those reasons. A lot of times they're shady folks who play loose with rules and regulations they don't like. 

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15 minutes ago, Coco said:

Not 100% clear on the details, but their company was a tangle of self-made titles and unprofessional family/church members doing mostly untrained manual labor. I'll never hire a company that looks even remotely fundie for all those reasons. A lot of times they're shady folks who play loose with rules and regulations they don't like. 

This is one of the reasons why I don't go with any businesses that advertise as "Christian".   Sure, some may be totally legit but I don't want to take any chances dealing with some shady so-called "Christian" company that cuts corners and skirts the rules.

 

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11 minutes ago, 16strong said:

Josh scandal 3.0 has Google trying to sell me cars.

 

Screenshot_20191122-153346_Chrome.jpg

Joshgate 3: The Joshening Returns

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The used car lot has me confused.  Those in the know, is Champion Motorcars the name of the car lot, now that the other two brothers run it?  When I looked the other day for Wholesale Motorcars the website was different from today, and I did find a cached page with the other information.  Are these two separate or one in the same?  The Facebook pages has them linked to the same address, which is why I am confused. 

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I'm so tired of this and all the speculation (not everything here is speculation, but still). If it turns into something, I'm sure we'll find out about it. But for the sake of making myself feel better after reading all 24 pages of this.... Here are some FACTS:

  • Age 14-15  (2002-2003) Josh molested 5 girls, based on police reports there were some incidents early in that time frame and JB/M became aware of that through Josh confessing and did nothing. Later in that time frame Josh offended again and was discovered. One incident involved a victim reporting it to JB/M
  • Josh went to his first Jesus rehab in 2003
  • Josh and Anna met in 2006 when they were 18 and started courting under the expressed permission of both sets of parents
  • Anna's dad spends all his time as a minister to inmates in Florida and she was raised in strict fundamentalism
  • Rumors of Josh's molesting reached the Oprah Show in December 2006 (after he was courting)
  • Springdale police questioned the Duggars about the molestation rumors in 2006, but declined to press charges and the statute of limitations was conveniently just passed
  • Anna and Josh marry in September 2008 after a June 2008 proposal
  • Josh's name was discovered in the Ashley Madison hack in 2015 and had two accounts including one that gave an affair guarantee. At the time, his initial apology admitted to this:
    • "I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife."
  • That apology was later updated and omitted that line (https://ew.com/article/2015/08/20/josh-duggar-ashley-madison-statement-infidelity/)

I think most of us suspect the Duggars use a fair amount of creative bookkeeping and property shifting to minimize their tax obligations. Aside from property records and business registrations, we have very little actual information about what their businesses look like. 

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3 hours ago, SillyDillys said:

Something that killed me was when anna spoke about Josh's infidelity on CO how she said she didnt want to rely on her feelings cause she would turn a mess into a disaster. 

To me this always felt like a line she was fed by JB/Michelle/people in her life that were trying to manipulate her to make sure she stayed with Josh. Something about it seems so coached to me. It’s sad. 

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3 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Agree, because it's insanity to rest of us, it's hard to imagine, but in her world it's not.    While I think that Anna has been abused both via her fundie upbringing and obviously during her marriage, in her world she sees everything can be fixed because Jesus.  She's not going to see her children as being in any sort of danger.  They may not be, but the possibility will never occur to her because it's all in her father in law's words "all taken care of". 

It’s sad but every time I see him with a child I cringe. He’s so creepy to me and anyone who crossed boundaries like that as a teen, not once, but on multiple occasions over a span of at least a year, and then crossing boundaries again by seeking rough sex outside of marriage while hypocritically fighting against the rights of others based on “family values” that tells me a lot about future risk of boundary crossing. 

I think he’s a danger. Especially now that he’s older and in positions of power over small kids, as an adult. I think he could probably realize he can silence them a lot easier than silencing a sibling. 

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3 hours ago, Xan said:

I looked on the Arkansas Secretary of State website and they're right.

Jim Bob has 5,  Michelle (2). Jana (1), Jason (1), John David (2), Josiah (1), Jedididah (1), Anna (1), Jeremiah (1).  That's a lot of corporations.  I'm sure he did it as a vehicle to save on taxes and expense lots of stuff to the corporations.  And Jim Bob put things in the other names to shield himself from liability.   The one with Anna as registered agent was just formed this September.  And another one, Duggar Processing, had it's corporate status revoked but it doesn't say when.  Four of the corporations were formed in 2019.

If anyone is coming for them about financial stuff, Jim Bob has built of layers of protection between himself and any claims or complaints.  And if Jim Bob sensed any trouble coming his way, you better believe he's gotten lawyers to protect him, the family, and its assets. It's a pity that their fans don't understand how much Jim Bob is all about the money.

I only wish that the recent investigation has something to do with that now-defunct Duggar Processing because that had Jim Bob's fingerprints all over it.

Interesting that one is named in Anna's name, not Josh's...that says a lot right there!

I'm also wondering if these recent corporations are a result of Derik's concerns regarding monies and TLC/JB and contracts. 

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9 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

It’s sad but every time I see him with a child I cringe. He’s so creepy to me and anyone who crossed boundaries like that as a teen, not once, but on multiple occasions over a span of at least a year, and then crossing boundaries again by seeking rough sex outside of marriage while hypocritically fighting against the rights of others based on “family values” that tells me a lot about future risk of boundary crossing. 

I think he’s a danger. Especially now that he’s older and in positions of power over small kids, as an adult. I think he could probably realize he can silence them a lot easier than silencing a sibling. 

Yep. This is the thing. 'Pedophile' has a clinical definition, and whether anyone likes it or not, we cannot say whether or not Josh is a pedophile. But the unfortunate truth is that Josh is clearly a sick individual who has had major issues with sexual deviancy and lack of self-control since his early teens at least, that he never got professional help for these issues, and that the "help" he did receive likely only exacerbated his issues. He is also a patriarch in a patriarchal religious cult where abuse runs rampant, is regularly swept under the carpet, abusers are excused and victims blamed, shamed and punished. 

Whether or not he has a sickness, whether or not he's a pedophile, whether or not he or his parents are most to blame, the truth remains that he is a dangerous person. If Pa Keller knew at least the basic details of what Josh did, he should never have encouraged the marriage with Anna. And whether or not Josh is actually at risk to re-offend as an adult, he has already proven that children are not safe in his care. It should be assumed that that's still the case until something proves otherwise.

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