When Your Dad and Brother Don’t Approve of Your Marriage

[Howl]

I sure feel sorry for any of the men in the group that can't grow a robust and very bushy patriarch beard! Ratty skimpy beards just wouldn't cut it! 

I'm sure these guys also style themselves as latter day prophets, and are SUPER pissed when the world doesn't go along. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Howl

[yeahthatsme74]

On 11/16/2019 at 3:16 PM, justwatching said:

This thread should come with a “don’t read while eating” warning because my jaw keeps dropping and my lunch falls out.

Unbelievable!!

I'm sitting in the waiting room while little yeah has OT...I hope nobody minds the intermittent snorting laughter! ?

[CyborgKin]

Ugh, that daughters-slavery comparison is ridiculous.

Talking with my own family about the question of "could a father annul a daughter's marriage?" we came to a very quick "no way" conclusion, followed by "historically, it made sense that a father could veto vows a daughter makes because she could be making business deals on his behalf with his property".

I've also seen explanations of that law (the passage in Numbers chapter 30) about fathers cancelling daughters' vows actually being a limitation to an existing practice.  A man would have a daughter make a vow on his behalf, and then later if he wanted to get out of the vow would pull the "she's a woman" excuse to cancel it.  Numbers 30:4 prevents fathers (and verse 6, husbands) from weaselling out of vows if they don't overrule them on the day they hear about them: if he doesn't say anything right away, then her vow stands just as any man's vow stands.  Plus a husband can even get his wife out of a 'rash utterance', which is a nice perk.

As for annulling marriage vows, I'm pretty sure that would be a completely different category of vow or covenant which can't be invalidated just on a father's say-so.  (Though in those days in that society it would probably have been difficult for a marriage to occur against a father's wishes.)  It probably doesn't fit the conditions of being a vow made "in her father's house in her youth".

That anyone can draw a line between cases where woman can be released from their vows, and slavery is baffling... but part for the course with people like this.  Daughters were dependants and the law went to a lot of trouble to make sure they were taken care of.

[JermajestyDuggar]

You know what’s beyond fucked up? James Manderino willingly and enthusiastically joined this fucked up belief system. Tommy Washburn was born into it. He was indoctrinated young. But James was not raised in this scary garbage. He chose to believe his daughter has less rights than a slave. It’s incredibly disturbing. Just like Tom Washburn, he wants to have power over women and children.

[Rachel333]

Even if there are real issues with the guy Sarah married (it's certainly possible, though absolutely nothing about Tom Washburn makes me inclined to trust him on this), they've seriously damaged their relationship with their daughter. If worse came to worse in that relationship wouldn't you want your daughter to feel safe coming to you for help? But Tom and the rest seem too into the power struggle to consider the future of their relationship with Sarah.

[FecundFundieFundus]

Parents like this (fundie or mainstream) it's always about the power struggle, never the kid. I see authoritarian apologist crap all the time about how totally controlling your child is actually in their best interest because otherwise they'll go to prison or be rude to old people. You really see it come out when you're with a child who stims. The number of people who think you should be punishing them for acting differently is really quite astonishing. (And no, you can't "discipline" autism out of someone, so fuck off and let him rock in peace. I wouldn't let you even if it did, jeez louise let the kid live his life)

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, FecundFundieFundus said:

Parents like this (fundie or mainstream) it's always about the power struggle, never the kid. I see authoritarian apologist crap all the time about how totally controlling your child is actually in their best interest because otherwise they'll go to prison or be rude to old people. You really see it come out when you're with a child who stims. The number of people who think you should be punishing them for acting differently is really quite astonishing. (And no, you can't "discipline" autism out of someone, so fuck off and let him rock in peace. I wouldn't let you even if it did, jeez louise let the kid live his life)

My child rocks although he doesn’t have autism. It’s just his way of self soothing when he’s tired. But if someone told me to punish him for it I would go off. It’s not hurting anyone so who cares. And I honestly don’t know if I could punish it out of him if I tried. 

[FecundFundieFundus]

Just now, JermajestyDuggar said:

And I honestly don’t know if I could punish it out of him if I tried. 

Probably not. It was a battle to redirect from chewing on hands until they were hurt to chewing on an acceptable object (child chew toy, blanket, etc). He pretty much grew out of it, I don't think our efforts did much. ?‍♀️ No one's ever actually said anything to me, most likely because I generate a potent "crazy mama bear" vibe and you can feel that energy hit when you bring up my kids in any capacity lmao. They'll mention his stimming in a judgemental tone once in a while... and then shut it and move away after I agree he is doing X because he likes it/is uncomfortable/whatever and stare at them. 

I'm not actually sure if it's autism over here, either. If it is we're throwing a party, though. The stigma is sooo pervasive! Eff that. 

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

Ahem.... *clears throat* 

Tom and Tommy Washburn, James Manderino meet Proverbs 16:18 as written in KJV:

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing

[meee]

13 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

That anyone can draw a line between cases where woman can be released from their vows, and slavery is baffling... but part for the course with people like this.  Daughters were dependants and the law went to a lot of trouble to make sure they were taken care of.

YES EXACTLY. 

(This is what I wanted to say the other day when I first read this thread and left an "I'm spluttering incoherently" post here.)

[ViolaSebastian]

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

*cough* Tommy Washburn *cough*

[PianoGal]

Thanks for the new rabbit hole! ? I didn't think anything could drag me away from JRod!

[Iamtheway]

I have been on FJ for a while and I have read some things on here that I have found hard to believe. But this thread and the Facebookposts in it is the craziest shit I have ever encountered. How can these people be real? Please tell me they are not real!

I’m going to climb back in to my liberal Swedish bubble now and rock myself to sleep.

 <— Me reading this thread. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

I have been on FJ for a while and I have read some things on here that I have found hard to believe. But this thread and the Facebookposts in it is the craziest shit I have ever encountered. How can these people be real? Please tell me they are not real!

I’m going to climb back in to my liberal Swedish bubble now and rock myself to sleep.

 <— Me reading this thread. 

I only believe it because I live in America. I’ve seen a lot of extreme behavior in real life. Especially on Facebook. I have a personal rule to never participate. Even if the drama is between people I know well or family members. That’s why I gave James the advice of keeping his nose out of it. The more opinions, the more drama.

[ViolaSebastian]

I am something of a beard connoisseur (beards becoming trendy has been very, very nice for this young lady), and I’m here to tell you both Tom and James’ beards are tragic. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I am something of a beard connoisseur (beards becoming trendy has been very, very nice for this young lady), and I’m here to tell you both Tom and James’ beards are tragic. 

I’m most definitely not a beard connoisseur. However my husband did go through a handlebar mustache phase ? and one thing I learned from that tragic era of our lives is that you have to actually take care of your facial hair. Like with products and shit. I have a feeling these faux Jewish men are not taking care of their beards. And it shows. 

[ViolaSebastian]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m most definitely not a beard connoisseur. However my husband did go through a handlebar mustache phase ? and one thing I learned from that tragic era of our lives is that you have to actually take care of your facial hair. Like with products and shit. I have a feeling these faux Jewish men are not taking care of their beards. And it shows. 

Bearfriend (for the uninitiated, pop on over to the Mrs. Midwest thread) is threatening to go back to muttonchops, which  . But he shampoos it, puts beard oil on it, and gets it trimmed. Otherwise it’d look, well, like James’.  

[Gothard is a perv]

If you notice poppa surf , his son and fellow idiot James Manderino use absolutely NO SCRIPTURE to back up their supposedly biblical assertions. There is good reason for this as there is NO scripture to support the views they have made fools of themselves showcasing on Facebook. 

I feel horrible for this young couple. I truly hope they stay far away from her crazy family. Poppa Smurf reminds me of Poppa Pilgrim / Robert Allen Hale. I pray the circumstances are NOT totally similar but I wonder. 

[nokidsmom]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:37 PM, bea said:

It’s just so creepy. “I have control over my legally competent and adult child for the REST OF HER LIFE unless I pick a guy to give her to, like a gift of livestock, or maybe a tea set. And if my child goes and contracts a fully legal marriage with another adult, and I don’t like it, then it doesn’t exist.”

No joke, but my own Dad came pretty close to this exact same attitude.     Down deep, he didn't like my getting married without his "permission" and while he didn't dispute the legality of my marriage, he did treat Mr. No like he didn't want him to exist.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I believe most of the Washburns live in TN and Sarah has Georgia listed as her current home. Therefore it seems there quite a bit of distance between the feuding family members. Which is probably a very good thing right now. 

[hamish]

This is a great rabbit hole, jaw dropping!

[SoSoNosy]

I just found this, and my jaw is hurting from hanging open for seven pages.  Holy cow!  Those people are almost criminally crazy.

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

I just found this, and my jaw is hurting from hanging open for seven pages.  Holy cow!  Those people are almost criminally crazy.

The sister in the middle of it all (Abigail) had a baby boy right after Christmas named Angus. He was a homebirth and seems healthy based on their reports of him. I’m now hoping Hannah has a boy because no more girls should be born into this extremely sexist family.

[raspberrymint]

Well, girls have a better track record of breaking free than boys.