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samurai_sarah

Dillards 81: Volunteering for God

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Melissa1977
12 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

get this vibe too. JB said on the show(s) about having kids "I've always left that up to Michelle." and that seemed to give the power balance away. 

I don't think it's that simple. Could Michelle have stopped the babymaking? Maybe. But even before the TV show, the enormous family was JimBob's political brand and what gived him prestige in Gothard circles. And then, the TV money. Michelle was raising 14 kids in a 3 bedroom little house and at that point, having more kids meant having more money to maintain the whole family.

Also, they are in a cult. A real cult. It's no joke. Michelle can wear the pants at home, but cultish members are not free to decide.

When Michelle was pregnant with Jordyn, she said all the time it could be her last baby. I felt that she was somehow hoping it was true. After Jordyn, her life was endangered twice (preeclamsia is very dangerous and a late miscarriage also is).

JimBob can claim that keeping having babies was all a Michelle's decision, but we all know (including them!) that after 15 births a woman's body is put in danger. So JimBob is not an innocent partner, he pushed the baby factory, he put pressure on her and he didn't stop despite the real danger.

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Idlewild

And I recall it was JB that used to give the ‘ a Christian doctor told use the contraceptive pill causes miscarriages ‘ explanation as to why they stopped using birth control. The huge family was their USP- there are lots of large Christian families out there- they needed a ‘ freak’ element to sustain TV interest. And despite what they and their devotees claim- they like being on TV and the privileges it’s brought them . I fully expect a concerted social media campaign about getting the series renewed - not directly by them but using their leg humpers to fuel it.

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Tired
clueliss

As far as JB wanting the, to even be in Central America, I personally doubt it.  I keep flashing back to the previews for the next season of the original show just before Joshgate 1 broke. The Dillard’s had a big announcement (which I assume was the we’re gonna be missionaries one) and the shot they showed on JB was one of squeamishness.  Since Joshly killed that show, we’ll never really know what the filmed reactions to that were.

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JenniferJuniper
5 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

JimBob can claim that keeping having babies was all a Michelle's decision, but we all know (including them!) that after 15 births a woman's body is put in danger. So JimBob is not an innocent partner, he pushed the baby factory, he put pressure on her and he didn't stop despite the real danger.

They absolutely should have stopped after Josie.  Josiah's endlessly dissected and debated filmed reaction to the Jubilee pregnancy announcement is proof enough to me that even the older kids knew this.  

I'm in the Jim Bob Controls It All Camp.  Maybe Michelle wanted more babies, but I suspect Jim Bob was insistent.  He wanted a 20 Kids and Counting show, 10 girls and 10 boys being ideal.  Plus, he's a sex pest in his own way and probably never gives Michelle a night off. And she's said she never says no. 

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BernRul

Personally I think they're equal partners. They are both heavily invested in the cult and brand, and they've always given me "team" vibes. Which would make it harder for the JKids, because both parents are always (or usually) on the same terrible page.

@JenniferJuniper Michelle seems obsessed with pregnancy and little babies. She was not unwilling in the 20 Kids and Counting plan. I think she said Jordyn could be the last baby because she was getting older and 18 is a huge number of kids, so it's a safe bet to say that might be it. I also don't see a reason why we should assume that she isn't also interested in having sex. As a fundies wife she of course won't say that bluntly, but I feel like it's kind of sexist to assume a wife is not as interested in sex as her husband.

Maybe unrelated, but I feel like Michelle loves Josh way more than JB does. He's her golden child, while JB seems to prefer the older girls. So I wonder if the idea to protect Josh, while a joint decision, wasn't influenced by her. 

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Xan
2 minutes ago, BernRul said:

Personally I think they're equal partners. They are both heavily invested in the cult and brand, and they've always given me "team" vibes. Which would make it harder for the JKids, because both parents are always (or usually) on the same terrible page.

I agree.  I think this is true of most of the fundie mega-families.  It doesn't really work unless the husband and wife are on the same page.  The husband has to figure out a way to work (or grift) to provide for the growing family and the wife has to deal with a lot of little kids born close together.  

I do think there is a tipping point where this became much easier for Michelle.  As soon as the older girls were able to do the cooking and child care, she was able to step back.  We've noticed how the little ones ran to older sisters for help and comfort instead of Michelle.  She opted out but still got the full "mother of the year" treatment just for having given birth so many times.  

In that Christmas video, Michelle was on screen talking more than any videos I've seen of the family for quite some time.  Now that the baby factory is closed, she needs to pull the spotlight back onto herself.  I guess she thought sitting on Jim Boob's lap and yakking on about her Jesus banner accomplished that.

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Wine time!
allthegoodnamesrgone
1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

They absolutely should have stopped after Josie.  Josiah's endlessly dissected and debated filmed reaction to the Jubilee pregnancy announcement is proof enough to me that even the older kids knew this.  

I'm in the Jim Bob Controls It All Camp.  Maybe Michelle wanted more babies, but I suspect Jim Bob was insistent.  He wanted a 20 Kids and Counting show, 10 girls and 10 boys being ideal.  Plus, he's a sex pest in his own way and probably never gives Michelle a night off. And she's said she never says no. 

I think JB is in control as well, but Michelle has a lot of authority, a lot more than they let on. I think most of us have read about how NO ONE crosses JB/tells JB no, or how ever it was worded. JB controls the boys & the business/family brand in that family & Michelle controls the girls. Everything in this cult is gender specific, and they adhere to strict gender norms.

Michelle was the girls authoritarian, and JB was the loving doting dad. You can tell with the boys & Joy that they have little attachment to Michelle, while there seems to be some affection for JB. But even Joy and a couple of the howlers seem to have little of that for him either. I remember how emotional JB was at Jill, Jessa & Jinger's weddings even's Josh's but he had to really work to squeeze out some tears for Joy and Josiah. Kids 8 - 14/15 were totally lost in the crowd. 

The lost girls are now FINALLY getting that attention from Michelle, now that the number of kids needing supervision is down, even the howlers are getting more attention from JB. Josiah & Joy were the two that were most affected/neglected and the two most likely to bolt as a result, hence another reason to marry Joy off so fast and the determination to get Josiah married to ANYONE quickly as well. Joy & Josiah were also very close, and there is safety in numbers so leaving with a sibling would be much easier than leaving on your own. 

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theotherelise

It seems pretty clear to me that JB controls the money, real estate, and housing decisions. He also seems to control the courtship options for at least the women.

Michelle on the other hand seems to control children decisions and discipline. Clothing options, hair options, school options, and activity options are all limited and controlled by Michelle. She *purposed* to get pregnant, not just be *joyfully available.* 

At this point, they both benefit from the cult and they both would lose a lot of power if the house of cards came down.

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JenniferJuniper
54 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

It seems pretty clear to me that JB controls the money, real estate, and housing decisions. He also seems to control the courtship options for at least the women.

Michelle on the other hand seems to control children decisions and discipline. Clothing options, hair options, school options, and activity options are all limited and controlled by Michelle. She *purposed* to get pregnant, not just be *joyfully available.* 

True, but if she was even slightly ambivalent after what she and Josie went through, he'd have insisted anyway.  He wanted those 20 kids.  💰

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Satisfied
HerNameIsBuffy
Just now, JenniferJuniper said:

True, but if she was even slightly ambivalent after what she and Josie went through, he'd have insisted anyway.  He wanted those 20 kids.  💰

I see it differently.  I rarely classify JB as fully human, but I do recall thinking when the whole Josie thing was happening that he looked scared as hell about the prospect of losing Michelle.  

I could be wrong, I could be reading him in far too charitable a light...but I do think she means more to him than any of the kids or hitting a number or even the money.  Don't get me wrong, I think the number and the money mean a lot to him but I do think he adores her.  And he enforces what she dictates.

I have never gotten a vibe that it was mutual.  I just have the feeling he loves her far more than she's capable of loving anyone...but this is based on TV and I could be way off.  

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JenniferJuniper
3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I see it differently.  I rarely classify JB as fully human, but I do recall thinking when the whole Josie thing was happening that he looked scared as hell about the prospect of losing Michelle.  

I agree that losing her would be devastating for him. And yet he got her pregnant again.  He's the headship. He had much more control over the situation.  I think at the end of the day greed trumps everything with JB, and he saw 20 Kids as a way of maintaining interest in the show and keeping it going longer.  Fate (aka Josh)l later intervened and should have ended the Duggars' run, but he still found ways to keep it going.  

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Meh
Maggie Mae
Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Wow - Derick has his own humpers, huh?  

Someone made Jill's chicken soup and liked it!

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