M is for Mama 5: Praying for Lunch

[mango_fandango]

She’s coming to London?? Oh no!! Stay away from my home city, Braggie!! 
(I know the Duggars have been there too, but I was blissfully unaware of the family back then). 

[imokit]

5 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Just the plane tickets has got to be 10K, or close to it.  I'd say 15K would be a conservative trip estimate.  Probably more like 20.

10 people staying in London city centre for a few days.  If they stay central and have 3 rooms (boys, girls, parents), they'll struggle for anything less than a few thousand in London for accommodation alone.

That's not including food or transport within the city.  I'd budget 5k for a few days in London for all of them and that's if they go really cheap and basic (and I can't imagine Abby being cheap and stingy on her own comfort or things like accommodation).

[MomKB]

She also made sure to point out that she and Shaun had been there twice already. ?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’ve never been to Europe so I have no idea exactly how expensive it is. I want to go one day. However I’ve always thought we would have to really save up as a family of 4. I can’t wtap my head around saving enough money for a family of ten.

[tankgirl]

How long are they going for? That many stops is going to be hell! I was naive once and took one child to Europe,  a pretty well traveled kid mind you, but young so still, we did Ireland, London, a work stop in Cardiff, and Paris and it was too much. Unless they go for 2+ months they are going to be miserable. Even pawning off kids, travelling with a group that large is a lot of work. 

 

There are ways to save like I know basic, bare bones rooms in London, that sleep up to 5, can be found for £150-£200 a night, we find 4 people rooms sometimes as cheap as £80-£100, but they are small and doubt to her standard, I suspect she will find Air BnB places which can be good for large groups, but are pricey. 

 

This trip will be so expensive, no matter what, I suspect the kids will be done fast, she will bore them with what she wants to do and I wonder how fun it will be, for the kids.

[Ozlsn]

8 minutes ago, tankgirl said:

How long are they going for? That many stops is going to be hell!

I can see it working with reasonable time and some rest days where they just hang out in parks or at the beach or somewhere. Whether Abbie is likely to plan time for that though... hm. I'm also curious about how they're going to get to all these points - rail is an option but with that many people it's not cheap! Hiring a car ditto, especially given the size they'd need for the entire family. The logistics of the whole trip would be so complicated. 

[unholypoledancer]

But you guys!!! Will Braggie fly coach? Or first class? First class for herself and hubby while putting the kids in coach?? These are the questions I need answers to!

Totally see you humble-brag about going twice, Braggie. Who cares. If you have gone twice, why do you need suggestions for anything?

 

ETA: Go to the bakery and buy you precious croissants there, Braggie. My god. That's an expensive trip for some baked goods. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by unholypoledancer

[tankgirl]

16 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

I can see it working with reasonable time and some rest days where they just hang out in parks or at the beach or somewhere. Whether Abbie is likely to plan time for that though... hm. I'm also curious about how they're going to get to all these points - rail is an option but with that many people it's not cheap! Hiring a car ditto, especially given the size they'd need for the entire family. The logistics of the whole trip would be so complicated. 

The issue is jet lag, kids often get hit hard, they can bounce part of the day, my eldest was fine in the day, but suddenly had hideous night terrors at night. Also they can suddenly start waking for the day at 3am, despite going to bed at 10pm, despite being normally scheduled at home. With 10 people you are guaranteed that 6-8 hour time difference (depending which country they are in) is going to hit some of them hard, and that can take for some people days to sort, my eldest took about 5 days. A few grumpy not sleeping kids, in a small space, means no sleep for everyone.

Also flying takes a long time, so even if they took a month, each new location is going to take at least 1/2 a day in the airport, flying, customs checks, then getting to the new location, it is tiring. Or the do long drives, which while they are used to driving in the US, it can be harder in Europe, because they will struggle finding a car to fit them all, which is more work. And the roads can be so much more difficult to manage, as they are so differently laid out, which means longer drives too.

I was naive like I said, the reality is doing 2 kids is too much money for us right now to travel, and though mine can do it, we still learned our lesson and would not do more then two countries again in a single trip, without a lot of time to travel. Two adults is miles different when travelling, and with all the ages and needs, 8 kids sounds like hell to me, to travel with.

[Ozlsn]

10 minutes ago, tankgirl said:

Also flying takes a long time, so even if they took a month, each new location is going to take at least 1/2 a day in the airport, flying, customs checks, then getting to the new location, it is tiring. Or the do long drives,

Or rail, but then you have to get from the station to your accommodation - London to Paris might not be as tricky but depending on where in the French countryside you'd almost certainly need your own bus or multiple taxis to get there from the closest station. Same with Switzerland and Italy - rail could work well for large urban centres but less well if they're staying at a farm outside of Florence (for example). 

OK, I am way too interested in the travel logistics of this trip, heh. I love travel planning!

Jet lag sounds like something she hasn't factored in at all - unless she plans on giving them melatonin or similar, which I guess is a possibility. She may be like me and not get jet lag (well not from long haul travel anyway, daylight savings on the other hand throws me out badly) but she should probably not assume her kids won't! I can see her not putting in any rest time - even with trips in the same time zone kids (and adults) need some chill time. I get the sense that she will want to see and do All Of The Things, without factoring in that those things are not likely to be interesting for some (or all!) of the kids. 

26 minutes ago, tankgirl said:

Two adults is miles different when travelling, and with all the ages and needs, 8 kids sounds like hell to me, to travel with.

Totally agree - I wouldn't want to do more than one place, preferably with a beach, with that many kids tbh. As you said, with enough time the multi-place trip could work - but it'd still take a lot of work and planning. A friend travelled last year to London, along the Rhine in Germany, and to Paris with her two primary school aged children and had a great time - but they spent a lot of time planning what they wanted to see (with the kids) and built in chilling out times. And of course they still had days where everyone was tired so the plan changed to "let's have a look at the foreign supermarket and find a park to wander around in before having an early night". I think they did it over a month. 

[tankgirl]

29 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Or rail, but then you have to get from the station to your accommodation - London to Paris might not be as tricky but depending on where in the French countryside you'd almost certainly need your own bus or multiple taxis to get there from the closest station. Same with Switzerland and Italy - rail could work well for large urban centres but less well if they're staying at a farm outside of Florence (for example). 

OK, I am way too interested in the travel logistics of this trip, heh. I love travel planning!

Jet lag sounds like something she hasn't factored in at all - unless she plans on giving them melatonin or similar, which I guess is a possibility. She may be like me and not get jet lag (well not from long haul travel anyway, daylight savings on the other hand throws me out badly) but she should probably not assume her kids won't! I can see her not putting in any rest time - even with trips in the same time zone kids (and adults) need some chill time. I get the sense that she will want to see and do All Of The Things, without factoring in that those things are not likely to be interesting for some (or all!) of the kids. 

Totally agree - I wouldn't want to do more than one place, preferably with a beach, with that many kids tbh. As you said, with enough time the multi-place trip could work - but it'd still take a lot of work and planning. A friend travelled last year to London, along the Rhine in Germany, and to Paris with her two primary school aged children and had a great time - but they spent a lot of time planning what they wanted to see (with the kids) and built in chilling out times. And of course they still had days where everyone was tired so the plan changed to "let's have a look at the foreign supermarket and find a park to wander around in before having an early night". I think they did it over a month. 

See school age kids can be easier, it's the little one's that can be the hardest, my eldest was under 2 years when we traveled the first time to Europe, now at school age, we have other things we need to figure in, but I was thinking her youngest are going to be what make the trip trickest, both with sleep issues, travel issues, general stuff they need, including car seats alone, that all being a nightmare. 

 

In the UK rail can be so much more expensive then flying I forgot to figure it in, was thinking one of the discount airlines might be a better option, but forgot them not having to pay for younger kids on rail, but them needing tickets on flights could make a difference, to there end choice. But I forget how old Braggie's kids are, do who knows.

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, tankgirl said:

But I forget how old Braggie's kids are, do who knows

I think the oldest is 13, the youngest is nearly 1. That would be difficult under any circumstances.

[JermajestyDuggar]

The kids are all around 2 years apart. So the kids are around 13, 11, 9, 7, 7, 5, 3, and 1.

Speaking of around 2 years apart, if she keeps her schedule, she will likely be pregnant on this summer trip through Europe. 

[danvillebelle]

If I were in her shoes (had that many kids and could somehow swing taking them to Europe), I would split it into two trips several years apart.  I'd take the 3 oldest now and the 5 youngers in the future when they were older.  I know a lot of people disagree with me on that point, but I personally would not spend that kind of money to take wee ones on a trip that they will not remember.  

ETA:  I fully admit that part of my reasoning for the above is selfish - *I* would not enjoy the trip as much if I were constantly having to soothe/nurse/change diapers. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by danvillebelle
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[SassyPants]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:55 AM, danvillebelle said:

Just the plane tickets has got to be 10K, or close to it.  I'd say 15K would be a conservative trip estimate.  Probably more like 20.

Only if they don’t eat!

 

i also wonder how many helpers will also go. No way are these 2 handling all those kids on a trip of this size! What about weekly date nights? 

[danvillebelle]

7 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

i also wonder how many helpers will also go. No way are these 2 handling all those kids on a trip of this size! What about weekly date nights? 

Sadly, a lot of that burden will likely fall on Ezra and Simon - who should be able to enjoy a trip to Europe at their ages without having to freaking parent their siblings.  ?

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, danvillebelle said:

Sadly, a lot of that burden will likely fall on Ezra and Simon - who should be able to enjoy a trip to Europe at their ages without having to freaking parent their siblings.  ?

I totally agree. I believe she’s also turning Della into a sister mom these days. 

[SuperNova]

Oh god, Abbie's traveling circus is going overseas. Bad idea for someone with OCD and a need for fastidious control. And why, WHY would she build in so many stops with 6 children under ten?? Abbie won't have any eyelashes left by the time they get home. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by SuperNova

[Ozlsn]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

if she keeps her schedule, she will likely be pregnant on this summer trip through Europe. 

Well that can only improve things, right?

12 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

If I were in her shoes (had that many kids and could somehow swing taking them to Europe), I would split it into two trips several years apart.  I'd take the 3 oldest now and the 5 youngers in the future when they were older.  I know a lot of people disagree with me on that point, but I personally would not spend that kind of money to take wee ones on a trip that they will not remember.  

ETA:  I fully admit that part of my reasoning for the above is selfish - *I* would not enjoy the trip as much if I were constantly having to soothe/nurse/change diapers. 

Same. Well actually I'd give the kids money and send them off on a trip by themselves/with friends/with school as they hit 18ish, and then go by myself (ok perhaps with husband) so I could see All The Things. With that many kids spread over that age range I'd much rather do a resort, particularly with a kids club and the "kids eat free" buffet option. Bonus if the resort has babysitting! Not that I have the money to do that either, even with considerably fewer children - but I'll keep dreaming!

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Well that can only improve things, right?

I’m guessing you are being sarcastic. Braggie HATES being pregnant. I really hope she won’t be pregnant on this trip. Because she will be miserable and make her kids miserable as well. 

[Ozlsn]

11 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m guessing you are being sarcastic. Braggie HATES being pregnant. I really hope she won’t be pregnant on this trip. Because she will be miserable and make her kids miserable as well. 

Oh yes that was sarcasm, sorry. Even if she loved being pregnant and had routine, feel fantastic pregnancies it would add another layer of organisation to the trip - yes the croissants are fine, but the cheese? The ham? The food that I need to check the ingredients for? Also where are the toilets? I actually hope she isn't pregnant on this trip because I kind of want the kids to have some fun and to want to go back - not to remember it as a terrible time.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Ozlsn

[klein_roeschen]

On 1/10/2020 at 10:08 PM, Ozlsn said:

I can see it working with reasonable time and some rest days where they just hang out in parks or at the beach or somewhere. Whether Abbie is likely to plan time for that though... hm. I'm also curious about how they're going to get to all these points - rail is an option but with that many people it's not cheap! Hiring a car ditto, especially given the size they'd need for the entire family. The logistics of the whole trip would be so complicated. 

I don't think the trip will be more than 10- 14 days in total, her husband is employed. It's doable for Teens and older with a lot of planning or book a guided roundtrip where everything is taken care of. But planning it yourself with 8 children, it sounds totally insane.
But I want to know when in spring she want's to come over. March and april can have very unpredictable weather and cold spells still even happen in may. London and Italy are different climate zones, so different clothes for 10 people, you have to carry around Europe and I don't think she will be ok with only 2 or 3 outfits for anyone and hitting a laundromat mid- travel to wash clothes.
If she choose the 2 weeks around easter, she will find herself in some extra fun, that's the first major holiday in the year and many people choose to take either the week before or after easter of to either visit family in other parts or travel themselfes. So no matter how she travels between the places, she will get increased traffic on the road as well as a lot more people in the allready very crowdy major railway stations and on the trains. And while Europe may be smaller for her, the distance between the spots she want's to visit is long.
I think we can look forward to some nice, staged insta pics of the with major touristy sides in the background and some passive- aggressive texts about how her small children didn't appreciate the Louvre and had meltdowns right there or else.

[danvillebelle]

5 minutes ago, klein_roeschen said:

But I want to know when in spring she want's to come over. March and april can have very unpredictable weather and cold spells still even happen in may.

::::nods vigorously::::  My one trip to Germany and Austria back in the day was in early May and it was COLD.  I remember wearing a warm coat most if not all the time and there was still snow on the ground at lots of the sites we visited.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Braggie posted a video on her insta stories. She was recording her 9 year old giving the baby a bath in the kitchen sink. The baby stood up and turned on the cold water on himself and wailed. That’s why you don’t have your 9 year old giving a baby a bath. 

[danvillebelle]

I swear, this bitch makes me so stabby it hurts.  PUT THE PHONE DOWN, STOP FEEDING YOUR EGO WITH INSTAGRAM AND PARENT YOUR FUCKING KIDS! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

What if the baby had turned on scalding hot water? We don’t keep our water heater on a high temp just in case. But who knows if Braggie does. She might like having very hot water for doing dishes. If he was able to turn on the cold, he could have turned on the hot while Braggie recorded away. Poor kid.