John David and Abbie 9: Yet Another Baby Watch - Grace is Here!

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, squiddysquid said:

The allergic reactions you are talking about were usually due to egg protein in the cocktail, not the vaccine itself, which is why they switched it out wherever possible and ask for allergies.

Lot of the myths stem from old live vaccines that haven't been used in a long time. Same goes for Mercury in vaccines - that was decades ago.

As a doctor myself, rest assured I'd would lose my licence if I lied about complications. In the very very unlikely event of an allergic reaction - usually mild and can be dealt with at the GP clinic - and for crying out loud:

BETTER THAN DEATH from measles, polio (wich is back thanks to anti-vaxxers) etc.

The chances of dying of the actual disease are a lot higher than having an allergic reaction to the vaccine.

As for adverse reactions in the fine print - take any medication and read that info - you'll find the most ridiculous things on there - for legal reasons.

Once a parent complains of anything even if it can't remotely be linked to that medication, before even proving the parent was wrong - they'll put it on the fine print so nobody can sue them.

Aside from money and time, I still don’t understand why the bulk  of vaccines need to be given at the exact same time. Are you saying that since a reaction is  Most likely d/t the egg protein or in the past mercury, it’s not necessary to know causation beyond that possibility? Is there any medical reason for giving many vaccines at one time, and by that I mean does DTaP potentiate Hib as an example?

[Born Skeptic]

16 hours ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

Isn't that a quack organization? Like you could submit literally anything to it and even if it doesn't get you compensation it makes the list of "things caused by vaccines". Or is that a different one? 

No.  The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program is run by the US Department of Health and Human Services.  It was established as a no-fault alternative to allowing lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers.  In the 1980's, a number of vaccine manufacturers were planning on getting out of the vaccine manufacturing business due to huge increases in the number of lawsuits filed alleging harm or potential harm.  This loss of manufacturing would have led to serious shortages of vaccines and a very real threat to public health and safety.  

It is true that filing a claim does get the alleged reaction listed on adverse reaction reports.  So does filing any complaint of adverse reaction to any vaccine or medication.  That is why most drugs and vaccines have a list of "possible side effects" that is miles long.  Even ridiculous things get listed like flu symptoms as a reaction to Tamiflu and joint pain symptoms as a reaction to arthritis medication.

Anti-Vexers use the existence of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund as "proof" that vaccines cause injury.  At the same time, they portray it as a sham because very few cases are actually awarded damages because true, provable, lasting vaccine injury is extremely rare.  It is ironic that a fund that was set up in response to increasing lawsuits by anti-vaxxers is twisted into "proof" of the dangers of vaccines. 

[Glasgowghirl]

I caught a virus some time in the past two weeks, it attacked my respiratory system and because I have asthma I ended up needing steroids and additional inhalers. My GP told me that if my peak flow had dropped any further than it had I would have needed hospitalised. I had a few horrible nights and while all viruses can't be vaccinated against, this has strengthened my belief that unless their are medical reasons for not vaccinating then you should vaccinate yourself and your children. 

 

[medimus]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Aside from money and time, I still don’t understand why the bulk  of vaccines need to be given at the exact same time. Are you saying that since a reaction is  Most likely d/t the egg protein or in the past mercury, it’s not necessary to know causation beyond that possibility? Is there any medical reason for giving many vaccines at one time, and by that I mean does DTaP potentiate Hib as an example?

I suppose there is no "need" to vaccinate together, except that like i said partial vaccination is a problem, more actual injections means more chances (tiny) of infection at the injection site and lots of them are timed to get the best immune response and the best protection.

It would actually cost more money to have all the vaccines seperately: more packaging, more syringes, more needles, more bandaids, more nurse/doctor time and visits. 

 

[squiddysquid]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Aside from money and time, I still don’t understand why the bulk  of vaccines need to be given at the exact same time. Are you saying that since a reaction is  Most likely d/t the egg protein or in the past mercury, it’s not necessary to know causation beyond that possibility? Is there any medical reason for giving many vaccines at one time, and by that I mean does DTaP potentiate Hib as an example?

I'm saying if you have an egg allergy we'll take precautions

Yes there is a reason. If you have live vaccines in the mix and you don't give all at once, you'd have to wait 1 month after each to give the next... That would take years.

Edited February 28, 2020 by squiddysquid
If you have doubts like that just ask your doctor - rather than deciding to go Anti-vaxx without the info

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, squiddysquid said:

I'm saying if you have an egg allergy we'll take precautions

Yes there is a reason. If you have live vaccines in the mix and you don't give all at once, you'd have to wait 1 month after each to give the next... That would take years.

Is rotavirus now a part of routine childhood immunizations in the US? Otherwise, what other attenuated vaccine is given to infants? The other attenuated vaccines are given in the toddler years, when the number of vaccines given diminishes, right? 

[squiddysquid]

Rotavirus causes severe gi symptoms like diarrhoea and can be deadly especially in small children since it doesn't take much fluid loss for them to become dehydrated.

The thing is young kids look fine one moment and collapse the next - that is due to their blood vessels being a lot more elastic - they'll constrict to keep the blood pressure up (though never underestimate diarrhoea in adults - people do die from dehydration)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/rotavirus.html

[just_ordinary]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Aside from money and time, I still don’t understand why the bulk  of vaccines need to be given at the exact same time. Are you saying that since a reaction is  Most likely d/t the egg protein or in the past mercury, it’s not necessary to know causation beyond that possibility? Is there any medical reason for giving many vaccines at one time, and by that I mean does DTaP potentiate Hib as an example?

Here you absolutely can opt to give them all as singles. We actually opted to have the pneumococcal and the varicella (chickenpox) separate from their normal mix. Pneumococcal because it was a extra shot anyway and our child was fine with the sixfold vaccinator and only felt bad more for 24h when the extra shot was on to, so we changed that.
But if you vaccinate everything on its own that’s 34 shots with 4 weeks between each shot ideally. We have eleven (normally it would be 7) and even that is complicated to schedule if you don’t vaccinate if your child has a bad cold (and if they are in contact with other children a lot they almost always have a cold in winter). And that’s without flu or fsme shots. 
Thankfully we are almost done. But my daughter already recognises the doctors office as something not positive and starts crying as soon as I put her on the table.I am relieved when we are done. No way I would put her through this 34 times.

 

[squiddysquid]

Thanks for that @just_ordinary

And you can still give vaccines to kids when they have a mild cold

"Because a mild illness does not affect how well the body responds to a vaccine, your child can still be vaccinated if he or she has:

A low grade fever (less than 101 degrees Fahrenheit)

A cold, runny nose, or cough

An ear infection (otitis media)

Mild diarrhea"

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/visit/sick-child.html

 

[SweetLaurel]

5 hours ago, medimus said:

It would actually cost more money to have all the vaccines seperately: more packaging, more syringes, more needles, more bandaids, more nurse/doctor time and visits. 

And when you have to take off work to go, or have to wait for hours for your apt, people would start skipping them.   

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, SweetLaurel said:

And when you have to take off work to go, or have to wait for hours for your apt, people would start skipping them.   

Oh absolutely.

It just seems like there needs to be a better, safer way. What other pediatric medical treatment would we use those parameters for? I might have to miss work, so let’s just do it all today. Admittedly, I’m guessing most kids do absolutely fine with the cocktails injected all at once. My kids are adults, so back in the day, the schedule was different. My youngest was always sick, had his first set of tubes as an infant and went on to have 1 more set as a pre-schooler, along with removal of both tonsils and adenoids. He was on antibiotics for like 4 years straight ( did attend center based care from infant- school age), and had a standing Wednesday afternoon (one of my days off from work) doctor’s appointment. I’m sure he wasn’t fully vaccinated until he was in middle school. Interestingly enough, once he started regular school he was never sick and as a 29 YO man, is healthy as a horse-

[candygirl200413]

They give "all those shots" roughly at the same time because of a set schedule aimed at helping an infant/child develop their immune system to a certain disease. 

[crancraz]

2 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

They give "all those shots" roughly at the same time because of a set schedule aimed at helping an infant/child develop their immune system to a certain disease. 

And because people stop taking their kids to the doctor as regularly after a year. A big push is “Done By One” which gives shots at the shortest recommended intervals during the first year to be able to finish most vax series by one. They know from research that parents are very very good at bringing children in during their first year of life but that adherence drops off pretty significantly at a year. If you can get all the major series and the first MMR completed by one, they don’t need shots again until kinder. 

[OyToTheVey]

On 2/27/2020 at 9:21 PM, squiddysquid said:

 

As for adverse reactions in the fine print - take any medication and read that info - you'll find the most ridiculous things on there - for legal reasons.

Once a parent complains of anything even if it can't remotely be linked to that medication, before even proving the parent was wrong - they'll put it on the fine print so nobody can sue them.

 

 

As a pharmacy owner, I can attest to this. We just recently had a recall on Tramadol 50MG because the folded up information insert attached to manufacturers bottles( not the one that prints out for patients but the one for pharmacy staff) had the dosage wrong in ONE area. It's like a 5000 word insert and in one area it was wrong(stated 25MG instead of 50MG). They took all of the Tramadol off the shelves. These people don't mess around. If anyone took the time to read them, their heads would explode. But I'm 100% certain that at one point or another someone complained and that's why all the warnings are written out. 

Best example I can give is all the hot cups of coffee actually say they're too hot to handle and to be careful because someone in a McD drive thru decided that 180 degree coffee was a good idea to have on her lap and sued McDs.

Oh and none of the vaccines have mercury in them anymore. We're not even allowed to sell old school mercury thermometers because a few people broke them and hurt themselves. So anti-vaxxers are definitely getting the wrong information.

On 2/28/2020 at 10:55 AM, SassyPants said:

Aside from money and time, I still don’t understand why the bulk  of vaccines need to be given at the exact same time. Are you saying that since a reaction is  Most likely d/t the egg protein or in the past mercury, it’s not necessary to know causation beyond that possibility? Is there any medical reason for giving many vaccines at one time, and by that I mean does DTaP potentiate Hib as an example?

Nope, I truly believe it was insurance and big pharma decisions. The kickbacks and lobbying in this country is crazy.

[llg1234]

16 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Best example I can give is all the hot cups of coffee actually say they're too hot to handle and to be careful because someone in a McD drive thru decided that 180 degree coffee was a good idea to have on her lap and sued McDs.

This is a simplification of what happened. She was not driving, but parked in the parking lot. The coffee was so hot that she sustained 3rd degree burns and needed skin grafts. She took responsibility for it not being a good idea to have put the coffee in between her thighs, but keeping coffee at 180-190 degrees is ridiculous and dangerous. Handing a customer a liquid so hot that it could cause such serious burns is negligent.  She originally wanted compensation for the medical costs, but McDonalds only offered her $800, hence the lawsuit.

Source: https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

There's nothing wrong with holding large corporations responsible, imo.

[SassyPants]

The only time we ever buy hot coffee/ tea is when we are traveling. My husband always instructs the person to add ice to the top of his hot tea. He says it’s the only way you can drink it. Why does the tea have to be so scalding hot? Not everyone puts milk in it. I usually opt for coffee, and again instruct them to leave room at the top for milk.

Walking around or driving in your car with a scalding hot beverage is a recipe for disaster.

[OyToTheVey]

35 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

The only time we ever buy hot coffee/ tea is when we are traveling. My husband always instructs the person to add ice to the top of his hot tea. He says it’s the only way you can drink it. Why does the tea have to be so scalding hot? Not everyone puts milk in it. I usually opt for coffee, and again instruct them to leave room at the top for milk.

Walking around or driving in your car with a scalding hot beverage is a recipe for disaster.

Apparently FDA requires tea to be 195 degrees. I looked it up earlier. I didn't see what the temperature for coffee was.

[grandmadugger]

4 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Apparently FDA requires tea to be 195 degrees. I looked it up earlier. I didn't see what the temperature for coffee was.

The water needs to be between 195 and 205 for the brewing coffee per the national coffee council. 

[lizzybee]

Tea does typically need to be brewed hotter than does coffee which is why it’s not so good to use something like a Keurig to make a cup of tea taste like it should. That said, I agree that ordering tea out is like ordering a container of molten lava that takes an eternity to be drinkable. I had a sore throat last night and seriously thought about ordering some from Starbucks,  but ultimately did not because we were driving home and the drawbacks outweighed the positives. 

[Belugaloo]

On 2/23/2020 at 4:34 PM, Shiny said:

Anti-vax "science" is definitely junk but I think that doctors really helped fuel it. I thought anti-vax people were ridiculous until I had an immune compromised kid and had to space out/omit certain vaccinations. It took years and several doctors before I found one who understood. They couldn't answer basic questions about the vaccinations, if there were drug interactions, if there were contradictions with my kids disease. Thankfully we were able to find a specialist who helped us, but I certainly understand how these mothers turn to Dr. Google and become anti-vax. I say this as someone who NEEDS the people (and my other children) to be vaccinated. 

Agree with you so much! I had an allergic reaction to the meningitis vaccine in 6th grade. while ive been so lucky to have a primary care doc who was adamant about putting it in my chart and writing a medical exemption, I see over and over how some docs aren't well educated on vaccines or adverse reactions. My least favorite are the people who attempt to share their pro vaccine opinions by stating "vaccines are 100% safe" to concerned parents. GUYS!! DONT SAY THAT! its not true. there are risks and side effects. some of us have reactions to them. some kids need to avoid certain vaccines. you aren't going to convince a parent to vaccinate by lying to them. IMO they'd be far less afraid of medicine and doctors if they were told the truth (they arent 100% safe) and given real statistics.

[Peaches-n-Beans]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:12 AM, OyToTheVey said:

Best example I can give is all the hot cups of coffee actually say they're too hot to handle and to be careful because someone in a McD drive thru decided that 180 degree coffee was a good idea to have on her lap and sued McDs.

So my understanding of this is that the coffee was so hot her labia fused together and she required extensive surgery and skin grafts... which yeah... if a liquid is that hot then there really should be some kind of warning. 

12 hours ago, lizzybee said:

Tea does typically need to be brewed hotter than does coffee which is why it’s not so good to use something like a Keurig to make a cup of tea taste like it should. That said, I agree that ordering tea out is like ordering a container of molten lava that takes an eternity to be drinkable. I had a sore throat last night and seriously thought about ordering some from Starbucks,  but ultimately did not because we were driving home and the drawbacks outweighed the positives. 

Actually this depends on the tea, Black tea yes, between 208 and 212 degrees is ideal, then steep for 3 to 5 minutes and take the tea leaves out. But for white and green tea you want between 170-185, and for herbal it's 180-190. Unfortunately most coffee shops fail to make this distinction and it can result in some pretty bitter white and green teas. Black goes bitter pretty quickly in most coffee shops too, I usually take my tea bag out by 2 or 3 minutes rather then the 4 or 5 I would at home because of it. I'm a bit of a tea snob though.

[AliceInFundyland]

Her labia fused together??? Seriously?

(insert emoji of female clutching legs together)

In my recollections of that infamous incident that detail is definitely absent! And I am not googling.

[Peaches-n-Beans]

4 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Her labia fused together??? Seriously?

(insert emoji of female clutching legs together)

In my recollections of that infamous incident that detail is definitely absent! And I am not googling.

That's my recollection of it, but much like you I am not googling it either. XD And I'm really hoping to be wrong

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

And this shit is why I HATE hot beverages especially coffee. Why would anyone want to drink something that burns their mouth, and tastes like coronavirus toilet licking challenge (that is a Russian fake out BTW) 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:44 PM, Peaches-n-Beans said:

That's my recollection of it, but much like you I am not googling it either. XD And I'm really hoping to be wrong

You're not, she had 3rd degree burns on her thighs and vagina that required several surgeries and extended hospitalization.  Here is a nice article of the case with out going into grotesque details.  What I was most floored by the fact that with all her injuries and surgeries she initially only asked for $20k to cover her medical bills AND lost wages. this was 1992 this injury know would cost closer to a million dollars in the US.