Messianics Becoming Jews?

[formergothardite]

This is a very good question and one that Christians ask us all the time. Because Yeshua said to.

Matt5:17 "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness is far greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P'rushim, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

Matt23: 2 "The Torah-teachers and the P'rushim," he said, "sit in the seat of Moshe. 3 So whatever they tell you, take care to do it. "

The Rabbi's are directly descended (religiously) from the Prushim or Pharisees. I know that the Talmud and other Rabbinic teachings are anti Yeshua, but the wealth of knowledge and wisdom contained therein is priceless.

Wasn't Jesus speaking to Jewish people when he said these things? He wasn't telling a group of Gentile people that they needed to suddenly start following all the Jewish law. At least that was what I was always taught.

And I wasn't being snarky or emotional I don't think when I asked why you are so upset about your friends becoming Jewish when you have stated you don't know what is going to happen to God's chosen people. It is just confusing to me because for you to mourn that happening you must think that it isn't going to be good. If it was just a simple, "I don't know.", then there would be no mourning.

[pomology]

Also, I wanted to add TOBeliever that I didn't give a damn about your personal beliefs and practices (just the concept of Faux-Jewry in general) and would never have told you to fuck off and stop treating the my religion like shiny play thing before you stormed in here shitting on our carpet and calling Jews "non-believers" and saying that your now non-Jesus-y friends are going to hell. I generally don't tell people to fuck off unless they are shitting on our carpet. As you might notice, I didn't go to your blog and say those things to you there.

[TOBeliever-]

A shiny new toy can be 8 years old in the grand scheme of your life. It is my religion. It's not just my religion, but it is my religion and I am highly defensive of it (for what should be obvious reasons if you know a single thing about history). God gave his laws to JEWS. Only Jews. Not a multitude of God fearers. And I don't mean this in an insulting way. It's a core tenet of Judaism (the religion that you claim to know oh so much about) that the 613 mitzvot are for Jews and Jews alone and as a non-Jew you only have to follow the seven Noahide laws. You're also only suppose to follow the Noahide laws. If you are not a Jew, God doesn't CARE if you following the 613 mitzvot, it's not going to do anything for you. So, either try to develop some respect for the religion you're supposed to be practicing or STFU.

Exodus 12:37-38: "Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. A mixed multitude went up with them also."

This record of a mixed multitude was after the giving of the Torah on the Mt, it is the record of the quail incident almost a year after the first Passover. Should they have been as some commentators suggests joined together into one community at the giving of the Torah, then there would have been no need to mention them as not Israelites here at the quail story. The Jew and Jew alone concept is relatively new in the nearly 6000 year history of Judaism, as someone earlier in the thread pointed out.

[pomology]

Exodus 12:37-38: "Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. A mixed multitude went up with them also."

This record of a mixed multitude was after the giving of the Torah on the Mt, it is the record of the quail incident almost a year after the first Passover. Should they have been as some commentators suggests joined together into one community at the giving of the Torah, then there would have been no need to mention them as not Israelites here at the quail story. The Jew and Jew alone concept is relatively new in the nearly 6000 year history of Judaism, as someone earlier in the thread pointed out.

Judaism isn't 6000 years old, genius.

ETA: If you don't care about the current standards of Rabbinic Jewry, than stop dabbling in cultural appropriations of their traditions, eh?

[TOBeliever-]

Oh, hai! You're back. Can you answer the question about Jesus' death and your view of salvation? Does the crucifixion figure in there at all?

Also, if you feel like answering this: I know there are different groupings within Messianics. You quoted First Fruits of Zion above - do you align yourselves with them? What are the differences, if any, in what FFOZ believes vs. other groups?

I haven't ignored your question on the crucifixion and its meaning and all, I'm mulling over my answer.

FFOZ is a publication company not a church or denomination. I agree with a lot of what they put out, but not all of it, I find it is well researched and level headed with its assertions. They are more Orthodox in their observance and have a a majority of Jewish Believers.

Their are a number of Messianic Denominations we don't belong to any of them but we do attend a congregation the belongs to the UMJC - Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations. They are more reform in their observance.

As for my beliefs - I believe that Yeshua of Nazareth is the Messiah, that he fulfilled 200+ prophecies and will come again in glory and usher us into the Messianic Age, thus fulfilling the rest of the prophecies. I believe that Yeshua said if you believe in me (as the Messiah, the sent one of G-d), then you will have everlasting life, that it secures your place in the world to come. I'm not a scholar, I don't know all the proofs for these things but I am willing to discuss them. I very much appreciate the Jewish midrash concept of arguing out a point to the end, so that both parties learn and gain from the discussion.

[TOBeliever-]

Judaism isn't 6000 years old, genius.

ETA: If you don't care about the current standards of Rabbinic Jewry, than stop dabbling in cultural appropriations of their traditions, eh?

Isn't it 5772? and I said nearly, whats a couple of hundred years when talking about millennial?

Why don't you address the text?

And I haven't met a Jew yet that agrees with ALL the standards of Rabbinic Jewry, again I will state my opinion that it is G-d's laws and traditions, not mans or Jews, it was given to all the mixed multitudes.

[emmiedahl]

No more so than when the Rabbi says that the charoset it mortar. During the seder we don't have to couch everything we say with "it's not really blood, mud, plagues etc" or this is just symbolism. As observant Jews in good standing at the Temple and synagogue the disciples of Yeshua knew what he was saying.

The Greek here may even mean that you are to drink this cup and remember my blood shed, or my martyrdom.

It is different to call something mortar than to call something flesh or blood. Christ was making a reference to cannibalism that is heretic. Further, he implied that eating his flesh (whether literally or figuratively) gave one forgiveness, which is a claim at divinity.

[emmiedahl]

How do you explain that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophesies? He was not a descendant of Solomon, he didn't return the Jews to Israel, he didn't rebuild the temple, he did not bring world peace, and he did not unite the world under God? The Isaiah verse you quoted was about Israel, unless Jesus lived a long life and had many children that is.

Followers of Christ claim that he fulfilled some of the smaller Messianic prophesies (there is no way of knowing either way) but he certainly did not fulfill the most definitive Messianic prophesies. I mean, any first born child can *claim* that their mother is a virgin. But Jesus did not do the other things. Further, he claimed to be divine, which totally disqualifies him for being the anointed. Because the Messiah does not lie, and the Messiah is not divine, so Jesus did one or the other.

I think your friends are becoming *real* Jewish because, from an Old Testament perspective, there is no way the Messiah has come already. You can only ignore and explain away so much of the book.

[Witsec1]

Thanks for answering my question. You didn't really address the part about Christ's death, though. Do you believe it is associated in any way with atonement for sin? Why did Jesus have to die?

[defrauding]

Isn't it 5772? and I said nearly, whats a couple of hundred years when talking about millennial?

I see that you don't understand how the Jewish calendar works; as a result, you're still off by a couple thousand years rather than a couple hundred.

(Hint: When was Abraham said to have been born?)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Also, I wanted to add TOBeliever that I didn't give a damn about your personal beliefs and practices (just the concept of Faux-Jewry in general) and would never have told you to fuck off and stop treating the my religion like shiny play thing before you stormed in here shitting on our carpet and calling Jews "non-believers" and saying that your now non-Jesus-y friends are going to hell. I generally don't tell people to fuck off unless they are shitting on our carpet. As you might notice, I didn't go to your blog and say those things to you there.

This.

Go believe whatever you want, and if it makes you happy to build a hut in the yard in October, have fun.

Calling regular Jews "observant non-believers", though, is rather obnoxious. Even if it takes some more typing, you can say "observant Jews who believe in regular Judaism, but don't believe in Christian theology". We don't lack faith - we just don't share YOUR faith.

[pomology]

Isn't it 5772? and I said nearly, whats a couple of hundred years when talking about millennial?

Why don't you address the text?

And I haven't met a Jew yet that agrees with ALL the standards of Rabbinic Jewry, again I will state my opinion that it is G-d's laws and traditions, not mans or Jews, it was given to all the mixed multitudes.

No, Judaism is not 5772 years old. Even if the world was 5772 years old (which, for the record, it's not) Jews didn't exist until, well, the first real Biblical reference to what we can possibly consider the same thing as Judaism today is in Esther.

Also, I do not address the text because quite frankly I don't have time and am more interested in issues of cultural appropriation than in the nitty gritty of Biblical text that I haven't studied, though I know many people who have and I trust their interpretations.

ETA: Even if, as defrauding pointing out, you go to Abraham, who is the first Hebrew and count that as the beginning of Judaism, you're still off by thousands of years.

[Beeks]

I just want to jump in and say this is what gets me. These fakers who claim they are SO Jewish and go so far as to claim we ACTUAL Jews are non-believers....and then to actually ARGUE something as stupid and basic as how old the religion of Judaism is? And it wasn't just a careless error because she is actually defending it! It just makes me shake my head and go "wtf?"

[FaustianSlip]

Yeah, tell me about it, Beeks. It takes a hell of a lot of chutzpah (and not the good kind) to swan in and start making obnoxious pronouncements from on high about Jews going to Hell and "Jewish non-believers" and not even have a basic understanding of how old the religion you're talking about is.

This.

Go believe whatever you want, and if it makes you happy to build a hut in the yard in October, have fun.

Calling regular Jews "observant non-believers", though, is rather obnoxious. Even if it takes some more typing, you can say "observant Jews who believe in regular Judaism, but don't believe in Christian theology". We don't lack faith - we just don't share YOUR faith.

Wordy word word. "Jewish non-believers," "observant non-believers," the degree of condescension and patronizing tone of either just takes my breath away. I can't quite decide if she's being deliberately obtuse in missing just why that would get people so angry and offended or if she's just that ignorant about this religion she claims to have been practicing for eight years. I mean, how do you claim to be an "observant" Messianic for eight years and have to mull over what the crucifixion means to you? That strikes me as quite bizarre- the significance of the crucifixion is pretty foundational to the whole Jesus story. If you don't even have that sorted out, I can't imagine why I would be likely to take any of your other opinions on Jesus very seriously.

Although I suppose we should at least thank her for being honest in admitting that she thinks the same people from whom she's stealing (yes, stealing) the majority of her religious practices are going to hell. We're good enough to use as a basis for cultural appropriation, evidently, but we're not good enough for God to uphold his end of the Covenant he made with us which, as I recall, was for all time. Which is the crux of my problems with Christianity, really. If you believe that God is either replacing the Jewish people in the context of his Covenant or that he's changing the rules of the game halfway through by introducing the Jesus question (not to mention the concept of Heaven and Hell), then God's a liar. And why would I want to follow a deity who lies right to my face? Seems like a bad bet to me.

[ZebraBrains]

TOBeliever.. you're wasting your time. :)

I am also a messianic believer but don't bother getting into arguments about it here.. There are just some people who can't be convinced of anything no matter what. :) And that's fine.. they aren't going to convince me of anything either so it's not a bad thing.

It's the word from the most high.. no GROUP has claim on the torah. The Torah is for all believers, not just one specific line of people.

(and no I won't be back.. not flouncing.. just back to lurking... for the same reason I don't go onto Alex Jones forum and tell everyone to become democrats.. it would be a stupid waste of time)

[Soldier of the One]

I want to caveat the following statement by saying it's a general observation/pondering and does not necessarily have any bearing on the Messianic poster who is posting here.

Having said that:

There is an intriguing tendency among certain fundamentalist Christian groups to 'claim' Judaism as their own through severing Judaism's connection to Jews and Jewish history.

This is in part due to a controversial Christian doctrine (and God forbid, I do NOT want to paint all Christians with the same brush) known as 'supersessionism'.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism)

Supersessionism teaches that the Jewish covenant with God has been voided in order to be replaced by the 'new covenant' through Christ, in which Christian believers become the 'new Israelites'.

In the past (and even today), this theology of supersessionism has been used to justify antisemitism and delegitimize Jews and Judaism.

It is not hard to see how troubling this theology is for religious Jews.

I think that we have to do some hard thinking (and I would encourage our Messianic readers and posters to do the same) about what an extreme result of such theology and its accompanied cultural appropriation can be.

The history of antisemitism is long, dark and sordid. And it is both far more nuanced and disturbing than one little poster on an internet message board like myself can do justice. But why is it that certain non-Jews want to appropriate 'our' Bible and 'our' religious and ritual life while at the same time expressing decidedly negative opinions about the Jewish people?

We are a package deal. Judaism comes with the Jewish people. If you love our Torah, well... we come along with that ;)

And mind you: this is not to say that the Jewish community is above (fair) criticism or that we are paragons of virtue. Nor is it a way of wanting to shut out non-Jews, God forbid. Judaism thinks very highly of its righteous converts. And Judaism also has a long history of healthy self-criticism.

It is not that we Jews want to 'jealously guard Judaism and only keep it for ourselves'. On the contrary - we are supposed to be a 'Light unto the Nations'. But we also respect the families of the earth to worship (or not worship) God in the way they see fit, to honor their own (equally valid) covenants with God and we certainly do not brandish a coercive theology. Everyone is welcome to learn. But Judaism is a full-package deal of peoplehood, history, culture and faith.

Jesus is not part of that package.

Respectfully yours.

[Edited for riffles and extra information]

[formergothardite]

TOBeliever.. you're wasting your time. :)

I am also a messianic believer but don't bother getting into arguments about it here.. There are just some people who can't be convinced of anything no matter what. :) And that's fine.. they aren't going to convince me of anything either so it's not a bad thing.

It's the word from the most high.. no GROUP has claim on the torah. The Torah is for all believers, not just one specific line of people.

(and no I won't be back.. not flouncing.. just back to lurking... for the same reason I don't go onto Alex Jones forum and tell everyone to become democrats.. it would be a stupid waste of time)

Well just bless your little heart.

[Guest Anonymous]

TOBeliever.. you're wasting your time. :)

I am also a messianic believer but don't bother getting into arguments about it here.. There are just some people who can't be convinced of anything no matter what. :) And that's fine.. they aren't going to convince me of anything either so it's not a bad thing.

It's the word from the most high.. no GROUP has claim on the torah. The Torah is for all believers, not just one specific line of people.

(and no I won't be back.. not flouncing.. just back to lurking... for the same reason I don't go onto Alex Jones forum and tell everyone to become democrats.. it would be a stupid waste of time)

That could have been a positive post. Unfortunately Jews don't believe the Jman is the messiah. Honey, you really should test drive a basic world religions class before you spew such drek.

edited for spelling

[Soldier of the One]

Unfortunately Jews don't believe the Jman is the messiah.

Yes, well - quite. Even more unfortunately, this is a hard concept from proselytizing Christians to grasp.

I am always amazed at the following conversation I have with door-knockers:

Proselytizer: 'do you believe in God?'

STO: 'yes I do'

Proselytizer: 'do you read the Bible'

STO: 'daily'

Proselytizer (getting hopeful): 'do you know Jesus?'

STO: 'Not personally. That's a joke. More seriously, I am a practicing Jew'

Proselytizer: 'Oh...'

Proselytizer: '...'

Proselytizer: 'do you want to get to know Jesus?'

STO: 'no thank you. I already have my covenant with God. Have a nice day, God bless'

I know there is a subset of Christian proselytizers who 'mean well' because they genuinely believe it is their Christian duty to reach out to the 'unsaved', but... thanks but no thanks. It is ultimately theologically coercive.

I believe in a loving God Who is very much capable of making up His (or Her, if you prefer) mind about what constitutes 'a mensch - good person'. Believing in Jesus is not a requirement.

[TOBeliever-]

Wasn't Jesus speaking to Jewish people when he said these things? He wasn't telling a group of Gentile people that they needed to suddenly start following all the Jewish law. At least that was what I was always taught.

And I wasn't being snarky or emotional I don't think when I asked why you are so upset about your friends becoming Jewish when you have stated you don't know what is going to happen to God's chosen people. It is just confusing to me because for you to mourn that happening you must think that it isn't going to be good. If it was just a simple, "I don't know.", then there would be no mourning.

I would have to agree that the majority would have been Jews. I get that they will now join in with the chosen ones, and I shouldn't mourn over that...and I don't...I mourn because they have rejected Mashiach. Even though I am not sure what all that means for them in the world to come, it doesn't seem good.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes, well - quite. Even more unfortunately, this is a hard concept from proselytizing Christians to grasp.

I am always amazed at the following conversation I have with door-knockers:

Proselytizer: 'do you believe in God?'

STO: 'yes I do'

Proselytizer: 'do you read the Bible'

STO: 'daily'

Proselytizer (getting hopeful): 'do you know Jesus?'

STO: 'Not personally. That's a joke. More seriously, I am a practicing Jew'

Proselytizer: 'Oh...'

Proselytizer: '...'

Proselytizer: 'do you want to get to know Jesus?'

STO: 'no thank you. I already have my covenant with God. Have a nice day, God bless'

I know there is a subset of Christian proselytizers who 'mean well' because they genuinely believe it is their Christian duty to reach out to the 'unsaved', but... thanks but no thanks. It is ultimately theologically coercive.

I believe in a loving God Who is very much capable of making up His (or Her, if you prefer) mind about what constitutes 'a mensch - good person'. Believing in Jesus is not a requirement.

As a woman from a Jewish background who went through a liberal conversion and lived as a Jew for many years, and is now an atheist, these pretenders can kiss my 60 year old ass.

[TOBeliever-]

TOBeliever.. you're wasting your time. :)

I am also a messianic believer but don't bother getting into arguments about it here.. There are just some people who can't be convinced of anything no matter what. :) And that's fine.. they aren't going to convince me of anything either so it's not a bad thing.

It's the word from the most high.. no GROUP has claim on the torah. The Torah is for all believers, not just one specific line of people.

(and no I won't be back.. not flouncing.. just back to lurking... for the same reason I don't go onto Alex Jones forum and tell everyone to become democrats.. it would be a stupid waste of time)

I'm not evangelical. I'm not trying to convince anyone that they are wrong. Just having a discussion.

[TOBeliever-]

It is different to call something mortar than to call something flesh or blood. Christ was making a reference to cannibalism that is heretic. Further, he implied that eating his flesh (whether literally or figuratively) gave one forgiveness, which is a claim at divinity.

I think you are adding to the text, he clearly says to do this in remembrance of me. I think a very good case can be made for it being purely symbolic. And like I posted before the Rabbis say that the wine is in remembrance of blood and on the seder children's blood!!

[TOBeliever-]

Each one of the prophecies and their fulfillment. Sorry for the alignment issues.

Genesis Prophecy Fulfillment

The Messiah would be born of the "seed" of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Luke 1:34-35

The Messiah would defeat Satan. above 1 John 3:8

The Messiah would suffer while reconciling men to God. above 1 Peter 3:18

The Messiah would be a descendant of Shem. Genesis 9:26 Luke 3:36

The Messiah would be a descendant of Abraham. Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 17:19 Luke 3:34

The Messiah would be a descendant of Abraham. Genesis 18:17-18 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would come for all nations. above Acts 3:24-26

The Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34

Messiah to be sacrificed on the same mountain where God tested Abraham. Genesis 22:14 Luke 23:33

The Messiah would be a descendant of Abraham. Genesis 22:18 Galations 3:16

The Messiah would come for all nations. above Galatians 3:14

The Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 26:4 Luke 3:34

The Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Genesis 28:14 above

The Messiah would come for all people. above Galatians 3:26-29

The Messiah would be a descendant of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:33

The Messiah would be a King above John 1:49

The Jew's capitol punishment authority would be gone when the Messiah arrived. above John 18:31

Numbers

The Messiah would be a King. Numbers 24:17 John 19:19

Deuteronomy

The Messiah would be a Prophet. Deuteronomy 18:15-19 John 6:14

The Messiah would speak with words of authority given to Him from God. above John 12:48-50

Those who refused to listen to the Messiah would be judged. above above

The Messiah would be worshiped by angels at his birth. Deuteronomy 32:43 Luke 2:13-14

Ruth

The Messiah would be a descendant of Boaz & Ruth. Ruth 4:12-17 Luke 3:32

1 Samuel

The Messiah would be exalted by God with power and strength. 1 Samuel 2:10 Matthew 28:18

2 Samuel

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. 2 Samuel 7:12-13 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be the Son of God. above Matthew 3:16-17

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. 2 Samuel 7:16 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would come for all people. 2 Samuel 22:50 Romans 15:8-9

The Messiah would be the "Rock." 2 Samuel 23:2-4 1 Corinthians 10:4

The Messiah would be as the "light of the morning." above Revelation 22:16

1 Chronicles

The Messiah would be a descendant of Judah. 1 Chronicles 5:2 Luke 3:33

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. 1 Chronicles 17:11-12 Luke 3:31

The Messiah's throne would be everlasting. above Luke 1:32-33

The Messiah would be the Son of God. 1 Chronicles 17:13-14 Matthew 3:16-17

Psalms

The Messiah would be rejected by Gentiles. Psalm 2:1 Acts 4:25-28

Political and religious leaders would conspire against the Messiah. Psalm 2:2 Matthew 26:3-4

The Messiah would be a King. Psalm 2:6 John 12:12-13

The Messiah would be the Son of God. Psalm 2:7 Luke 1:31-35

The Messiah would declare that he was the Son of God. above John 9:35-37

The Messiah would be resurrected and crowned as King. above Acts 13:30-33

The Messiah would ask God for His inheritance. Psalm 2:8 John 17:4-24

The Messiah would receive authority over all. above Matthew 28:18

The Messiah would be the Son of God. Psalm 2:12 Matthew 17:5

The Messiah would reject those who did not believe in him. above John 3:36

Infants would give praise to the Messiah. Psalm 8:2 Matthew 21:15-16

The Messiah would be given authority over all things. Psalm 8:6 Matthew 28:18

The Messiah would be resurrected. Psalm 16:8-10 Matthew 28:6

The Messiah's body would not be subject to decay. above Acts 13:35-37

The Messiah would be exalted to the presence of God. Psalm 16:11 Acts 2:33

The Messiah would come for all people. Psalm 18:49 Ephesians 3:4-6

The Messiah would cry out to God. Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46

The Messiah would be forsaken by God. above Mark 15:34

The Messiah, anguished, would pray without ceasing. Psalm 22:2 Matthew 26:38-39

The Messiah would be despised. Psalm 22:6 Luke 23:21-23

The Messiah would be mocked by people shaking their heads. Psalm 22:7 Matthew 27:39

Mockers would say of the Messiah, "he trusted God, let him deliver him." Psalm 22:8 Matthew 27:41-43

The Messiah would be aware of his Father from his youth. Psalm 22:9 Luke 2:40

The Messiah would be called to God's service from the womb. Psalm 22:10 Luke 1:30-33

The Messiah would be abandoned by the disciples. Psalm 22:11 Mark 14:50

The Messiah would be surrounded by evil spirits. Psalm 22:12-13 Colossians 2:15

The Messiah's heart would burst, flowing with blood & water. Psalm 22:14 John 19:34

The Messiah would be crucified. above Matthew 27:35

The Messiah would thirst. Psalm 22:15 John 19:28

The Messiah would thirst shortly before his death. above John 19:30

The Messiah would be surrounded by Gentiles at his crucifixion. Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:36

The Messiah would be surrounded by Jews at his crucifixion. above Matthew 27:41-43

The Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. above Matthew 27:38

None of the Messiah's bones would be broken. Psalm 22:17 John 19:32-33

People would stare at the Messiah during his crucifixion. above Luke 23:35

The Messiah's garments would be divided. Psalm 22:18 John 19:23-24

Lots would be cast for the Messiah's clothes. above above

The Messiah's atonement would enable believers to be his brethren. Psalm 22:22 Hebrews 2:10-12

None of the Messiah's bones would be broken. Psalm 34:20 John 19:32-33

The Messiah's offering of himself would replace all sacrifices. Psalm 40:6-8 Hebrews 10:10-13

The Messiah would say the scriptures were written of him. above Luke 24:44

The Messiah would come to do God's will. Psalm 40:7-8 John 5:30

The Messiah would not conceal his mission from the congregation. Psalm 40:9-10 Luke 4:16-21

The Messiah's betrayer would be a friend whom he broke bread with. Psalm 41:9 Mark 14:17-18

The Messiah would speak with a message of grace. Psalm 45:2 Luke 4:22

The Messiah's throne would be everlasting. Psalm 45:6-7 Luke 1:31-33

The Messiah would be God. above Hebrews 1:8-9

The Messiah would act with righteousness. above John 5:30

The Messiah would ascend into heaven. Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51

The Messiah would give gifts to men. above Matthew 10:1

The Messiah would be hated by many without cause. Psalm 69:4 Luke 23:13-22

The Messiah would bear reproach, for God's sake. Psalm 69:7 Matthew 26:65-67

The Messiah would be rejected by the Jews. Psalm 69:8 John 1:11

The Messiah's brothers would disbelieve him. above John 7:3-5

The Messiah would be angered by disrespect toward the temple. Psalm 69:9 John 2:13-17

The Messiah would bear reproach, for God's sake. Psalm 69:9 Romans 15:3

The Messiah's disciples would fail him in his time of need. above Mark 14:33-41

The Messiah would be offered gall and vinegar. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34

The Messiah would thirst. above John 19:28

The potters field would be uninhabited. Psalm 69:25 Acts 1:16-20

The Messiah would speak in parables. Psalm 78:2 Matthew 13:34-35

The Messiah would be at the right hand of God. Psalm 80:17 Acts 5:31

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Psalm 89:3-4 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would call God his Father. Psalm 89:26 Matthew 11:27

The Messiah would be God's "firstborn." Psalm 89:27 Mark 16:6

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Psalm 89:29 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Psalm 89:35-36 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be eternal. Psalm 102:25-27 Colossians 1:17

The Messiah would be the creator of all. above John 1:3

The Messiah would be accused by false witnesses. Psalm 109:2 John 18:29-30

The Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34

The Messiah's betrayer would have a short life. Psalm 109:8 Acts 1:16-18

The Messiah's betrayer would be replaced. above Acts 1:20-26

The Messiah would be mocked by people shaking their heads. Psalm 109:25 Mark 15:29-30

The Messiah would be Lord. Psalm 110:1 Matthew 22:41-45

The Messiah would be at the right hand of God. above Mark 16:19

The Messiah would be a Priest in the order of Melchisedec. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 6:17-20

The Messiah would be at the right hand of God. Psalm 110:5 1 Peter 3:21-22

The Messiah would be the "stone" rejected by the Jews. Psalm 118:22 Matthew 21:42-43

The Messiah would come in the name of the Lord. Psalm 118:26 Matthew 21:9

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Psalm 132:11 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Psalm 132:17 above

Proverbs

The Messiah would be from everlasting. Proverbs 8:22-23 John 17:5

The Messiah would ascend and descend from heaven. Proverbs 30:4 John 3:13

God would have a Son. above Matthew 3:16-17

Isaiah

The Jews would have a hardened heart against the Messiah. Isaiah 6:9-10 John 12:37-40

The Messiah would speak in parables. Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:13-15

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Isaiah 7:13-14 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14 Luke 1:34-35

The Messiah would be Immanuel, "God with us." above Matthew 1:21-23

The Messiah would be God. above John 12:45

The Messiah would be a "stumbling stone" for the Jews. Isaiah 8:14 Matthew 21:43-44

The Messiah would minister in Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:12-17

The Messiah would be a light to the Gentiles. above Luke 2:28-32

The birth of the Messiah. Isaiah 9:6 Luke 2:11

The Messiah would be the Son of God. above Luke 1:35

The Messiah would be the "Wonderful Counselor." above John 7:46

The Messiah would be both God and man (the "Mighty God"). above John 10:30

The Messiah would be from everlasting (the "Everlasting Father"). above Revelation 1:8

The Messiah would be the "Prince of Peace." above Colossians 1:20

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Isaiah 9:7 Matthew 1:1

The Messiah would be a descendant of Jesse. Isaiah 11:1 Luke 3:23-32

The Messiah would grow up in a poor family. above Luke 2:7

The Messiah would have the full Spirit of God upon him. Isaiah 11:2 Matthew 3:16-17

The Messiah would have the Spirit of Wisdom. above Luke 2:40

The Messiah would have the Spirit of Understanding. above above

The Messiah would have the Spirit of Counsel. above Matthew 7:28-29

The Messiah would have the Spirit of Might. above Matthew 8:27

The Messiah would have the Spirit of the Knowledge of God. above John 7:29

The Messiah would have the Spirit of the Fear of God. above Hebrews 5:7

The Messiah would have a quick understanding in the fear of the Lord. Isaiah 11:3 Luke 2:46-47

The Messiah would not judge on the basis of external representations. above John 7:24

The Messiah would judge the poor with righteousness. Isaiah 11:4 Mark 12:41-44

The Messiah would be a descendant of Jesse. Isaiah 11:10 Luke 3:23-32

The Messiah would come for all people. above Acts 13:47-48

The Messiah would have the key of David. Isaiah 22:22 Revelation 3:7

The Messiah would defeat death. Isaiah 25:8 Revelation 1:18

Others would rise to life at the resurrection of the Messiah. Isaiah 26:19 Matthew 27:52-53

The Messiah would be the cornerstone. Isaiah 28:16 1 Peter 2:4-6

The Messiah would heal the blind. Isaiah 35:5 Mark 10:51-52

The Messiah would heal the deaf. above Mark 7:32-35

The Messiah would heal the lame. Isaiah 35:6 Matthew 12:10-13

The Messiah would heal the dumb. above Matthew 9:32-33

The forerunner of the Messiah would live in the wilderness. Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:1-4

The forerunner would prepare people for the coming of the Messiah. above Luke 1:17

The Messiah would be God. above John 10:30

The Messiah would be as a shepherd. Isaiah 40:11 John 10:11

The Messiah would be God's servant. Isaiah 42:1 John 4:34

The Messiah would have the Spirit of God upon him. above Matthew 3:16-17

The Messiah would please God. above Matthew 3:16-17

The Messiah would provide "justice" to the Gentiles. above Matthew 24:14

The Messiah would not draw attention to himself. Isaiah 42:2 Matthew 12:15

The Messiah would have compassion for the poor and needy. Isaiah 42:3 Matthew 11:4-5

The Messiah would receive guidance from God. Isaiah 42:6 John 5:19-20

The Messiah would be ministered to by God. above John 8:29

The Messiah would be the new covenant. above Matthew 26:28

The Messiah would be a light to the Gentiles. above John 8:12

The Messiah would heal the blind. Isaiah 42:7 Matthew 9:27-30

The Messiah would be from everlasting. Isaiah 48:16 John 1:1-2

The Messiah would be sent from God. above John 7:29

The Messiah would come for all people. Isaiah 49:1 1 Timothy 2:4-6

The Messiah would be called to God's service from the womb. above Matthew 1:20-21

The Messiah would be called by his name before he was born. above Luke 1:30-31

The Messiah's words would be as a sharp sword. Isaiah 49:2 Revelation 2:12-16

The Messiah would be protected by God. above Matthew 2:13-15

The Messiah would be responsible for the judgment of mankind. above John 5:22-29

The Messiah would be God's servant. Isaiah 49:3 John 17:4

The Messiah's work would glorify God. above Matthew 15:30-31

The Messiah would be distressed over the Jews unbelief. Isaiah 49:4 Luke 19:41-42

The Messiah would be rejected by the Jews. above John 5:43

The Messiah would be God's servant. Isaiah 49:5 John 6:38

The Messiah would come to bring Israel back to God. above Matthew 15:24

The Messiah would be God's servant. Isaiah 49:6 John 12:49-50

The Messiah would be a light to the Gentiles. above Acts 13:47-48

The Messiah would be despised. Isaiah 49:7 John 10:20

The Messiah would speak with knowledge given to him from God. Isaiah 50:4 John 12:49

The Messiah would not be rebellious to God's will. Isaiah 50:5 John 12:27

The Messiah's back would be whipped. Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 27:26

The Messiah's face would be beaten and spit upon. above Matthew 26:67

The Messiah would steadfastly set his face toward his mission. Isaiah 50:7 Luke 9:51-53

The Messiah would be justified by his righteousness. Isaiah 50:8 1 Timothy 3:16

The Messiah would place his trust in God. Isaiah 50:8-10 John 11:7-10

The Messiah would be God's servant. Isaiah 52:13 John 9:4

The Messiah would be highly exalted. above Philippians 2:9-11

The Messiah's face would be disfigured from severe beatings. Isaiah 52:14 Matthew 26:67-68

The Messiahs blood would be shed to make atonement for all. Isaiah 52:15 Revelation 1:5

The Messiah's own people would not believe he was the Christ. Isaiah 53:1 John 12:37-38

The Messiah would grow up in a poor family. Isaiah 53:2 Luke 2:7

The Messiah would have the appearance of an ordinary man. above Philippians 2:7-8

The Messiah would be despised. Isaiah 53:3 Luke 4:28-29

The Messiah would be rejected. above Matthew 27:21-23

The Messiah would have great sorrow and grief. above Luke 19:41-42

Men would hide from being associated with the Messiah. above Mark 14:50-52

The Messiah would have a healing ministry. Isaiah 53:4 Luke 6:17-19

The Messiah would bear and carry upon himself the sins of the world. above 1 Peter 2:24

The Messiah would be thought to be cursed by God. above Matthew 27:41-43

The Messiah would bear the penalty for mankind's transgressions. Isaiah 53:5 Luke 23:33

The Messiah's sacrifice would provide peace between man and God. above Colossians 1:20

The Messiah's back would be whipped. Isaiah 53:5 Matthew 27:26

The Messiah would be the sin-bearer for all mankind. Isaiah 53:6 Galatians 1:4

It was God's will that the Messiah would be the sin-bearer for all mankind. above 1 John 4:10

The Messiah would be oppressed and afflicted. Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:27-31

The Messiah would be silent before his accusers. above Matthew 27:12-14

The Messiah would be as a sacrificial lamb. above John 1:29

The Messiah would be confined and persecuted. Isaiah 53:8 Matthew 26:55

The Messiah would be judged. above John 18:13-22

The Messiah would be killed. above Matthew 27:35

The Messiah would die for the sins of the world. above 1 John 2:2

The Messiah would be buried in a rich man's grave. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57

The Messiah would be innocent and had done no violence. above Mark 15:3

The Messiah would have no deceit in his mouth. above John 18:38

It was God's will that the Messiah would die for all mankind. Isaiah 53:10 John 18:11

The Messiah would be an offering for sin. above Matthew 20:28

The Messiah would be resurrected and live forever. above Mark 16:16

The Messiah would prosper. above John 17:1-5

God would be fully satisfied with the suffering of the Messiah. Isaiah 53:11 John 12:27

The Messiah would be God's servant. above Romans 5:18-19

The Messiah would justify man before God. above Romans 5:8-9

The Messiah would be the sin-bearer for all mankind. above Hebrews 9:28

Because of his sacrifice, the Messiah would be greatly exalted by God. Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 28:18

The Messiah would give up his life to save mankind. above Luke 23:46

The Messiah would be grouped with criminals. above Luke 23:32

The Messiah would be the sin-bearer for all mankind. above 2 Corinthians 5:21

The Messiah would intercede to God in behalf of mankind. above Luke 23:34

The Messiah would be resurrected by God. Isaiah 55:3 Acts 13:34

The Messiah would be a witness. Isaiah 55:4 John 18:37

The Messiah would come to provide salvation. Isaiah 59:15-16 John 6:40

The Messiah would be the intercessor between man and God. above Matthew 10:32-33

The Messiah would come to Zion as their Redeemer. Isaiah 59:20 Luke 2:38

The Messiah would have the Spirit of God upon him. Isaiah 61:1-2 Matthew 3:16-17

The Messiah would preach the good news. above Luke 4:17-21

The Messiah would provide freedom from the bondage of sin and death. above John 8:31-32

The Messiah would proclaim a period of grace. above John 5:24

Jeremiah

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Jeremiah 23:5-6" Luke 3:23-31

The Messiah would be God. above John 13:13

The Messiah would be both man and God. above 1 Timothy 3:16

The Messiah would be born of a virgin. Jeremiah 31:22 Matthew 1:18-20

The Messiah would be the new covenant. Jeremiah 31:31 Matthew 26:28

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Jeremiah 33:14-15 Luke 3:23-31

Ezekiel

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Ezekiel 17:22-24 Luke 3:31

The Messiah would be a descendant of David. Ezekiel 34:23-24 Matthew 1:1

Daniel

The Messiah would ascend into heaven. Daniel 7:13-14 Acts 1:9-11

The Messiah would be highly exalted. above Ephesians 1:20-22

The Messiah's dominion would be everlasting. above Luke 1:31-33

The Messiah would come to make an end to sins. Daniel 9:24 Galations 1:3-5

The Messiah would be holy. above Luke 1:35

The Messiah enters Jerusalem 483 years, after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. Daniel 9:25 John 12:12-13

The Messiah would be killed. Daniel 9:26 Matthew 27:35

The Messiah would die for the sins of the world. above Hebrews 2:9

The Messiah would be killed before the destruction of the temple. above Matthew 27:50-51

A vision of the Messiah in a glorified state. Daniel 10:5-6 Revelation 1:13-16

Hosea

The Messiah would defeat death. Hosea 13:14 1 Corinthians 15:55-57

Joel

The Messiah would offer salvation to all mankind. Joel 2:32 Romans 10:12-13

Micah

The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1-2

The Messiah would be God's servant. above John 15:10

The Messiah would be from everlasting. above Revelation 1:8

Haggai

The Messiah would visit the second Temple. Haggai 2:6-9 Luke 2:27

The Messiah would be a descendant of Zerubbabel. Haggai 2:23 Luke 3:27

Zechariah

The Messiah would be God's servant. Zechariah 3:8 John 17:4

The Messiah would be Priest and King. Zechariah 6:12-13 Hebrews 8:1

The Messiah would be be greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem. Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:8-10

The Messiah would be beheld as King. above John 12:12-13

The Messiah would be just. above John 5:30

The Messiah would bring salvation. above Luke 19:10

The Messiah would be humble. above Matthew 11:29

The Messiah would be presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey. above Matthew 21:6-9

The Messiah would be the cornerstone. Zechariah 10:4 Ephesians 2:20

At the time of Messiah's coming, Israel would have unfit leaders. Zechariah 11:4-6 Matthew 23:1-4

The Messiah's rejection would cause God to remove His protection of Israel. above Luke 19:41-44

The Messiah would be rejected in favor of another king. above John 19:13-15

The Messiah would have a ministry to the "poor," the believing remnant. Zechariah 11:7 Matthew 9:35-36

The unbelief of Israel's leaders would force the Messiah to reject them. Zechariah 11:8 Matthew 23:33

The Messiah would be despised. above Matthew 27:20

The Messiah would stop ministering to the those who rejected Him. Zechariah 11:9 Matthew 13:10-11

The Messiah's rejection would cause God to remove His protection of Israel. Zechariah 11:10-11 Luke 19:41-44

The Messiah would be God above John 14:7

The Messiah would be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver. Zechariah 11:12-13 Mathew 26:14-15

The Messiah would be rejected. above above

Thirty pieces of silver would be thrown into the house of the Lord. above Matthew 27:3-5

The Messiah would be God above John 12:45

The Messiah's body would be pierced. Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34-37

The Messiah would be both God and man. above John 10:30

The Messiah would be rejected. above John 1:11

It was God's will that the Messiah would die for all mankind. Zechariah 13:7 John 18:11

The Messiah would die a violent death. above Matthew 27:35

The Messiah would be both God and man above John 14:9

Israel would be scattered as a result of rejecting the Messiah above Matthew 26:31

Malachi

A messenger would prepare the way for the Messiah. Malachi 3:1 Matthew 11:10

The Messiah would make a sudden appearance at the temple. above Mark 11:15-16

The Messiah would be the messenger of the new covenant. above Luke 4:43

The Messiah's forerunner would come in the spirit of Elijah. Malachi 4:5 Matthew 3:1-2

The Messiah's forerunner would turn many to righteousness. Malachi 4:6 Luke 1:16-17

This list was adapted and edited from a list I found on the Internet somewhere.

[TOBeliever-]

Further, he claimed to be divine, which totally disqualifies him for being the anointed. .

Where did he do this? What reference?