Andrea Mills 3: Still Buying Junk Food

[under siege]

15 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Oh that does suck. I love grocery shopping by myself, pretty much because it's an hour where I can just get the stuff on the list and chill (I also tend to do it at very odd hours so it's usually quiet. Also I get a chocolate frog). As a date night though, seriously? Screw that. Go and have a coffee together somewhere, go for a walk, do something where you can reconnect without competing demands. 

Absolutely.
Their 'date nights' were always a thing. When the boys were younger that had a family member or neighbour (eg Mrs Reeves) watch them or look in on them. 
There are a few vlogs in where Andrea discusses what they did, usually a meal out, sometimes a drive. Just being together and reconnected away from the house.

Then pregnant with Hannah, they started incorporating date night with the monthly shopping which at the time made a lot of sense.

Then the youtube people bolstered the idea that it was wonderful Tom continue being with Andrea.
Someone mentioned on an earlier thread that Andrea seemed to have had some post-natal depression or at least seemed 'down' afterwards. This, though never discussed nor claimed, may have factored into Andrea's willingness to continue as was instead of going back to date night AND monthly shopping night separately.

(and yes, I admit to enjoying the shopping videos pre-Tom. Once his appearance was a permanent thing is where I started skipping them)

[can'tstopwatching]

5 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Why does he focus the camera on shampoo and conditioner and say wistfully that he wishes they could get those? Why does he focus on the price of everything before he takes it off of the shelf?

The shampoo and conditioner were the ones Andrea had used most of her life so that was just a little sad moment ? and Andrea used to also show the price before the product so I'm guessing he's just doing it like she did, but I do feel like the intention is different when he does it - she did it more to show how they came to the final total, I guess.

Honestly this shopping trip seemed especially like he was showing off all the junk food on purpose to prove the point that he doesn't care, with 'junk food' in the title and several instances of excuses for why they are going to be doing convenience food for a while. Someone in the comments kindly suggested crock pot meals, which I've seen others comment before, which are arguably even easier than microwaveable junk but he'll ignore that of course.

Edited November 1, 2019 by can'tstopwatching

[WhatAlife]

@thoughtful  He focused the camera on shampoo that Andrea used to use? I guess to evoke an emotion from his followers: “Look at me I’m still grieving “  I thought he was going to grab a bottle and take a whiff of the smell, to get a reminder of what Andrea’s hair smelled like.  That would look real, instead it looked like obligatory “ I’m still grieving” so keep feeling sorry for me. 
 

I know it is super cynical of me, but all of his behavior so far makes me feel like he is almost giddy with the attention, the outpouring of support, the power he has now, the “ fame”.  Like he gets off on it?  
And yeah, there is the reality of being the sole parent to a big brood of kids, but he just treats it like this small hassle he either ignores or delegates the work to Asher so he can be available to his “ followers” because they have a need to discuss the Bible. He has THAT important job now.

[Emory]

My guess is the kids are fixing many of their own meals thus all the easy food.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is stopping at a drive through when he is out.  That is, if they exist in the small town.

[ViolaSebastian]

16 minutes ago, Emory said:

My guess is the kids are fixing many of their own meals thus all the easy food.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is stopping at a drive through when he is out.  That is, if they exist in the small town.

I’ve thought this as well, with the added thought that some of those kiddos are way too young to be able to even forage for themselves in the kitchen, let alone use the stove to heat something up or a kitchen knife. 

[thoughtful]

5 hours ago, can'tstopwatching said:

The shampoo and conditioner were the ones Andrea had used most of her life so that was just a little sad moment

Ah, I didn't realize that - thanks.

And, as ever with people who put their whole lives online, it makes me wonder -- was this genuine grief he wants to share, or making sure his fans remember he is a grieving widower, for - ? (attention, contributions, sympathy, a new wife . . . ?). I shudder at the very idea of making something that personal public, especially in a video.

I've just been on the JillRod thread, and I am seeing so many parallels in our reactions. I think there's something about the human brain that wants to sort things out, to know why someone is doing what they are doing, what they are leaving out, what the backstory is, and why they would put it online.

I think that urge is exacerbated when the person putting it all out there does something puzzling or suspicious (or downright heinous, as in Jill's funeral selfie).

And I am so grateful I have never been a person who wants the whole world to know the intimate details of my daily life. I think it can only lead to wasted time (that could be spent with your children, Tom!), lack of privacy, criticism, and possibly heartbreak.

[under siege]

16 hours ago, Emory said:

My guess is the kids are fixing many of their own meals thus all the easy food.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is stopping at a drive through when he is out.  That is, if they exist in the small town.

The Walmart shopping happens in Gillette so there are plenty of fast food/restaurant options for them.
Gillette's only a 30 minute drive away so it's not so far away that it couldn't be a regular thing either.

At this point in their grieving/restructuring process, it would actually be a good thing for Tom to take one or two kids every so often out for even an hour or two, even if it's to get an icecream / get a drive-through lunch and either just drive and talk or go to a park.  Since they have no aversion to junk food this wouldn't make it anyway worse for their eating.
They may live in a small town but they are not so far away from plenty of options and it would be healthier than staying at home for much of the time, all together in such a small space. 

[thoughtful]

7 hours ago, under siege said:

it would actually be a good thing for Tom to take one or two kids every so often out for even an hour or two,

Was it part of their previous tradition for either Andrea or Tom to have outings with just one child, not as part of a necessary errand, but just to spend time one-on-one?

[Renee]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

Was it part of their previous tradition for either Andrea or Tom to have outings with just one child, not as part of a necessary errand, but just to spend time one-on-one?

Not that I noted. Andrea would do an activity with one child at a time, such as sewing with Eden, or focusing her teaching time on the current kindergartener. She had one on one time with Thomas, or another older boy, driving them to work or to help at a relative's home.

I don't recall Tom doing that. Maybe when he built the shed, it was one of the older boys working with him. Tom was one on one with Thomas, to play Magic, also keeping their cars running.

Grandma Kitty, on her facebook, has special times when 1 child, or maybe 2 or 3, would visit with her and do something FUN and focused on them. 

[Giraffe]

This is such a sad situation. I’m scared for what it will take for Tom to wake up and start parenting. 

[Saywha?]

I hope he doles out some paper towels or napkins when they eat. Was Andrea against them? Every video they just wipe their mouths across their arms and don’t seem to get them. Not the kids fault, but very strange table manners to encourage. Even at a visit to gramma fern one is eating cereal and just wipes his mouth elbow to wrist. I’m sure her house is so clean and tidy she didn’t appreciate it. 

[can'tstopwatching]

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if the 4 oldest kids were girls instead of boys. Do you think Tom would be relying on them even more to take over the childcare, housework, and cooking because of their beliefs in gender roles? Even though he has Asher mostly taking care of Hannah, I wonder if it would be even worse and more explicit if the oldest were daughters.

[Renee]

In last night's bible study video, Claudia was asleep on the couch next to him. He explained that Friday is their 'sleepover' night and Justus, Eden, Sophia and Claudia were going to sleep in his office. Just for fun. Claudia came upstairs to 'tattle' on someone, and apparently fell asleep so suddenly that she was face down, laying on the sofa. She did not look comfortable at all. I think she had a dress on, not pj's. Tom was just leaving her lay there as he launched into his bible study.

Being a Mom and watching a scene like that, it makes me crazy. First, it means Claudia is so tired she's beyond exhausted, to simply fall asleep in her tracks like that.  Second, stop what you're doing and put her to bed. In pj's, in her bed, under the covers where it's warm.

It seems the kids needs are not put first, and they are not comforted and just plainly given some TLC when it's needed. Little kids need to feel safe and warm and loved and reassured.

Claudia was up past her bedtime, still in her clothes, asleep on the couch with no blanket, and clearly wanting her Dad's attention and not getting it.

I dunno ..... I'm not an expert on kids, but that scene just makes me feel sad.

[Zenyatta]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:16 PM, OyHiOh said:

You know, for a good bit after Mr Oy died, my kids ate a lot of pop tarts, granola bars, chips, snack cakes, etc.  Also pre cut fruit trays, veggie platters, cheese plates . . . 

We're coming up on nine months in Nov and we still don't eat regular sit down meals more than once or twice a week, but our food choices have settled down quite a bit.  I just went grocery shopping.  Twelve or so lbs of fruit.  Another 12 or so lbs of fresh vegetables.  Hummus, beans, rice, cheese, yogurt, eggs, milk, a little pasta, some bread . . . .  We like to put out a choice of produce, proteins, and carbs and fix our own plates from what's on offer.  I'll make salads and quick pickles, simple cooked dishes to go with, things that can hold as left overs for a couple days at a time.  I eat a lot of soup when the kids are at school, either pre made or from scratch.

For us, the reliance on boxed snack food type things was a coping mechanism for a few months, before finding a new normal that still involved the produce and vegetarian proteins we like.  And during those early months, when friends brought us meals, you'd better believe my kids immediately dropped the boxed snacks in favor of something made for us!  Tom and the kids behavior suggests they haven't eaten anything approaching a balanced diet in a very long time.  If Andrea was going for some sort of Weston Price type diet, she completely missed the part where he absolutely despised sugary, floury carbohydrate sources, railed against sugar, and heartily recommended vegetables and fermented vegetables in particular . . . . . I may have bought into that diet type for a few years . . . . some of what Andrea did sounds familiar.

Let's put it this way.  World Central Kitchen, an organization that sends chefs, equipment, and ingredients into disaster and refugee zones (and also relies on local produce, local recipes and local chefs and volunteers to do 90% of the work, WCK mainly does the organization and logistics) insists that every person they serve have access to fresh fruit and salads with every meal served.  If an organization that works in disaster zones thinks produce is that important, it's certainly important for a family growing up in the western US.

Speaking of fruit and veggie platters, Andrea bought two of them on a shopping trip.  Those things are like $15 or more.  What kind of budget were they on? $30 for pre-cut veggies. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Zenyatta
To finish comment

[Zenyatta]

7 hours ago, Giraffe said:

This is such a sad situation. I’m scared for what it will take for Tom to wake up and start parenting. 

I don't think he will ever wake up.  He doesn't know how to parent and doesn't want the headache. In the last shopping video, he said he didn't even know what to buy.  Dude, you have never heard of making a list?  He also complained that after a day of work, he can't just whip up a meal for his hungry kids.  I understand that can be overwhelming.  But I did see a Stouffer's lasagna in the freezer in an Andrea video.  He can't figure out that he can buy two of those to feed the family? Instead, he buys 100 Hot Pockets. All processed food, but which is less harmful? I can't tell if he is that dense or is playing up his ineptitude for the camera. (I know he is mourning, and that makes things even harder.)

[OyHiOh]

7 hours ago, Giraffe said:

This is such a sad situation. I’m scared for what it will take for Tom to wake up and start parenting. 

Suicidal ideation . . . . his own or one of the older kids . . . .

[Escadora]

2 hours ago, Renee said:

In last night's bible study video, Claudia was asleep on the couch next to him. He explained that Friday is their 'sleepover' night and Justus, Eden, Sophia and Claudia were going to sleep in his office. Just for fun. Claudia came upstairs to 'tattle' on someone, and apparently fell asleep so suddenly that she was face down, laying on the sofa. She did not look comfortable at all. I think she had a dress on, not pj's. Tom was just leaving her lay there as he launched into his bible study.

Being a Mom and watching a scene like that, it makes me crazy. First, it means Claudia is so tired she's beyond exhausted, to simply fall asleep in her tracks like that.  Second, stop what you're doing and put her to bed. In pj's, in her bed, under the covers where it's warm.

It seems the kids needs are not put first, and they are not comforted and just plainly given some TLC when it's needed. Little kids need to feel safe and warm and loved and reassured.

Claudia was up past her bedtime, still in her clothes, asleep on the couch with no blanket, and clearly wanting her Dad's attention and not getting it.

I dunno ..... I'm not an expert on kids, but that scene just makes me feel sad.

But, but... Tom's Bible study was soooooo much more important than caring for his exhausted child, how dare you even suggest otherwise! 

(was obvious sarcasm obvious? I hope so! Really, I agree with you 100%)

I think Tom's made it very clear how he feels about his parental responsibilities. His children were a blessing to him when Andrea was alive because she mostly saw after their needs (I know, I know... barely) and he got to be the cool, fun dad who played games with them and occasionally had dad talks with the boys and snuggled his baby girls when the inclination struck. Now that Andrea's gone I think Tom is struggling with the reality that he's now solely responsible for all of the children (including the ones he didn't really want to have, not that he didn't have a choice) and can't find it within himself to deny a few of his wants in favour of meeting his children's needs. 

I do wonder if a part of him resents Andrea for pushing to have so many children (again, not that he didn't have a choice) and then leaving him to do the majority of the raising of most of them (not that she had a choice, also,  what with the type of cancer she had and all). To that end, it makes perfect sense that he's so eager to replace her presence with his toy Alexa and not wave off the idea of a new partner as being ludicrously soon. Tom needs an enabler to function, and as long as he has something  or someone to delegate to, he'll chose that over putting in any hands-on effort. 

I suppose it just goes to show that fundamentalism doesn't always work in a man's best interests also, as he's been absolved from the dirty work of parenting he also never got to form a meaningful, emotionally healthy relationship with his children. I can't imagine that any of them are going to make it out of this unscathed. To lose a parent at such a young age is one thing, but to be repeatedly and publicly neglected and brushed aside by the one they have left must be just awful.

Their diet of convenience food 'for now' isn't going to end any time soon because 'for now' will remain forever until Tom starts making better choices, and that's simply not going to happen.

Tom's fucked, and I think he knows it. 

[WhatAlife]

1 hour ago, Escadora said:

But, but... Tom's Bible study was soooooo much more important than caring for his exhausted child, how dare you even suggest otherwise! 

(was obvious sarcasm obvious? I hope so! Really, I agree with you 100%)

I think Tom's made it very clear how he feels about his parental responsibilities. His children were a blessing to him when Andrea was alive because she mostly saw after their needs (I know, I know... barely) and he got to be the cool, fun dad who played games with them and occasionally had dad talks with the boys and snuggled his baby girls when the inclination struck. Now that Andrea's gone I think Tom is struggling with the reality that he's now solely responsible for all of the children (including the ones he didn't really want to have, not that he didn't have a choice) and can't find it within himself to deny a few of his wants in favour of meeting his children's needs. 

I do wonder if a part of him resents Andrea for pushing to have so many children (again, not that he didn't have a choice) and then leaving him to do the majority of the raising of most of them (not that she had a choice, also,  what with the type of cancer she had and all). To that end, it makes perfect sense that he's so eager to replace her presence with his toy Alexa and not wave off the idea of a new partner as being ludicrously soon. Tom needs an enabler to function, and as long as he has something  or someone to delegate to, he'll chose that over putting in any hands-on effort. 

I suppose it just goes to show that fundamentalism doesn't always work in a man's best interests also, as he's been absolved from the dirty work of parenting he also never got to form a meaningful, emotionally healthy relationship with his children. I can't imagine that any of them are going to make it out of this unscathed. To lose a parent at such a young age is one thing, but to be repeatedly and publicly neglected and brushed aside by the one they have left must be just awful.

Their diet of convenience food 'for now' isn't going to end any time soon because 'for now' will remain forever until Tom starts making better choices, and that's simply not going to happen.

Tom's fucked, and I think he knows it. 

You make such a great point. 
In a way he acts really immature, I am sure he hears a little voice in his head saying “ you should first put your daughter in bed before you start the Bible study video” but he ignores it and says “ screw it “ to himself.  Like, I’m tired of having all these kids with their endless needs, I’m not even going to find a blanket to cover her up with.”
Like he is petulant. 
There is no adulting from him and doing the right thing even if it’s the harder thing. He just does whatever is easier and pleases him more. 
He wants a new wife so he doesn’t have to worry about the kids’ emotional and physical needs any more. 
I worry that the kids are so detached from their own feelings that they don’t even show their grief around him, they just put on a brave face and soldier on. 

[OyHiOh]

2 hours ago, Zenyatta said:

Speaking of fruit and veggie platters, Andrea bought two of them on a shopping trip.  Those things are like $15 or more.  What kind of budget were they on? $30 for pre-cut veggies. 

Good question.  When people wanted to buy us groceries, I told them pre cut platters because it was easier to say that than to give a list of fruits and veggies we like.  And also because for a couple months at the beginning, it was such a blur I couldn't work through the process of turning a bag of carrots into carrot sticks.  But more or less on my own two feet now, my personal budget absolutely does not allow for buying pre cut trays regularly.  I get the one that's mostly melon once in a while when I want melon but don't want to deal with that many enormous round things in my fridge at the same time.

[Giraffe]

2 hours ago, OyHiOh said:

Suicidal ideation . . . . his own or one of the older kids . . . .

This was exactly what I was thinking and didn’t want to type it out. Sadly I think it’s going to take something that extreme. 

[under siege]

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Escadora said:

 

I think Tom's made it very clear how he feels about his parental responsibilities. His children were a blessing to him when Andrea was alive because she mostly saw after their needs (I know, I know... barely) and he got to be the cool, fun dad who played games with them and occasionally had dad talks with the boys and snuggled his baby girls when the inclination struck.

I do wonder if a part of him resents Andrea for pushing to have so many children

I suppose it just goes to show that fundamentalism doesn't always work in a man's best interests also, as he's been absolved from the dirty work of parenting he also never got to form a meaningful, emotionally healthy relationship with his children.

Their diet of convenience food 'for now' isn't going to end any time soon because 'for now' will remain forever until Tom starts making better choices, and that's simply not going to happen.

Tom's fucked, and I think he knows it. 

THIS!  This is why I am so harsh when it comes to Tom.
If it was just him, a widower, trying to get on with life after the love of his life passed, I wouldn't even give him a second thought apart from empathizing with his grief.

However. Nine children have lost their mother. In the two months since her passing it has become very obvious how little Tom was involved in their day-to-day lives. H

[under siege]

Apologize for the last unfinished post. My laptop is being weird and won't let me edit.
Probably a good thing as I was able to do another rant about Tom not ever having to be a parent before and now he's confronted with the fact he has to get to know the children Andrea convinced him to have (aka 'God's will)

I just hope that this downwards spiralling mess gets the help needed to turn things around before another tragedy strikes.

[Petronella]

8 hours ago, Zenyatta said:

He also complained that after a day of work, he can't just whip up a meal for his hungry kids.  I understand that can be overwhelming.

Wow. Okay. Yeah, it’s tiring, but millions of people do it—especially women. Does he think there’s some special female hormone required?

Actually, I can see if someone has never cooked before, it is harder than for someone experienced. He has a big learning curve ahead. But then maybe he should have been a little more appreciative of the meal train, instead of nitpicking it.

I really don’t understand his attitude towards the Go Fund Me. I would have thought it would be meant for getting through the challenging first year, in which case a meal delivery service is something to consider.

I’ve noticed that it seems to be psychologically common for people to not want to use windfall money for “ordinary” things. But sometimes that’s the very best use.

 

[can'tstopwatching]

Mileena posted a video about how her adoptive father abused her. Someone asked what Tom thinks of this and she said she never told him. I can’t stop thinking about how  uninvolved he seems to be in her life and how much she clearly wants a relationship with him. He claims to have wanted custody of her but now he doesn’t even bother with her. Just more of his kids that he is neglecting (even if he isn’t legally responsible for her and she’s an adult, it still makes me sad)

[raspberrymint]

Do you think Tom would allow Mileena to move in with his second family?

(I don't think even suicidal ideation can change certain people's minds, unless it's their own.  Even then, they can often rationalize it away with the threat of displeasing God.)

Edited November 3, 2019 by raspberrymint
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