Jana 10: Advertising Boredom on a Biblical Level

[MaryOrMartha]

15 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

I have to wonder if Jana is viewed in a positiveway by her circle eg she is waiting for prince charming kind of thing or if she is viewed as a cautionary tale...see what happens when you are to choosey, not godly enough you are not rewarded with a husband?

The latter. I come from a fundie lite background and that's definitely how they're viewed, with some pity thrown in for good measure.

[Tenyari]

5 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Jessa is significantly older than Ben, who was still a teenager when they were counting. I can’t imagine anyone objecting to Jana having a relationship with a 27-year-old. 

A Jana/Arendt match has been suggested many times. No way in hell. They’re both weird families, but in very different ways.

I wouldn't say that being 27 is significantly older than her 25 year old husband, but yeah, when they were still courting that was indeed a significant difference since he was still just a teenager and she was an adult. 

[nolongerIFBx]

22 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

3 years younger would certainly be a problem if it was a courtship à la Justin and Claire. But between 27 and 30, it is way more reasonable and normal. 

I dunno if it is frowned upon in fundie couples if the woman is older than her husband. But I think if Jana found someones who was maybe 3 or 4 years younger than her, people would let it pass, simply because she has been waiting for so long to find the right person.

Every branch of fundie is different, but IIRC, Gothard teaches that the man should be older. However, they don't follow that rule, i.e. Ben and Jessa.

[Daisy0322]

1 hour ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Every branch of fundie is different, but IIRC, Gothard teaches that the man should be older. However, they don't follow that rule, i.e. Ben and Jessa.

I guess I didn’t realize there were many branches? Can you go into more detail? 

[nolongerIFBx]

1 minute ago, Daisy0322 said:

I guess I didn’t realize there were many branches? Can you go into more detail? 

Gothard has his IBLP/ATI variety. Vision Forum is another variety. Then you have IFBx "camps" (some of which may also be IBLP or VF) somewhat broken up by colleges Hyles-Anderson, Bob Jones U., Tennessee Temple U., Landmarkists, Ruckmanites, Bob Gray, Sr. of TX, Bob Gray, Jr. of TX (both influenced by IBLP), Golden State, North Valley, etc. ;and then IFBxxers like Steve Anderson; non- Baptist but fundie like Pensacola Christian College; and IFB who want nothing to do with the legalism of the aforementioned IFBx or xxer churches but are still independent churches who hold the fundamentals of the Baptist denominations. Then you've also got Reformed Baptists. And Church of God Holiness. Etc., etc.

 

[Daisy0322]

6 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Gothard has his IBLP/ATI variety. Vision Forum is another variety. Then you have IFBx "camps" (some of which may also be IBLP or VF) somewhat broken up by colleges Hyles-Anderson, Bob Jones U., Tennessee Temple U., Landmarkists, Ruckmanites, Bob Gray, Sr. of TX, Bob Gray, Jr. of TX (both influenced by IBLP), Golden State, North Valley, etc. ;and then IFBxxers like Steve Anderson; non- Baptist but fundie like Pensacola Christian College; and IFB who want nothing to do with the legalism of the aforementioned IFBx or xxer churches but are still independent churches who hold the fundamentals of the Baptist denominations. Then you've also got Reformed Baptists. And Church of God Holiness. Etc., etc.

 

How different are they really though? 

[nolongerIFBx]

12 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

How different are they really though? 

I think that all are going to believe the fundamentals of the faith; the differences are mostly external. Only one of the pastors I knew while in IFBX-dom were against birth control and I don't think he preached against it but people were aware that he personally was against it. Dress is another external difference all the way from pants on women/ shorts on women and men are fine, one piece bathing suits are fine, to dresses only for women/long pants only for men, all shirts must have collars/ no T-shirts, jeans for work only, if you choose to wear a straight rather than a full skirt, the slit has to be sewn up, regular clothes for swimming, for women, nothing lower than an inch below your collar bone, no keyhole blouse/dress closures, nothing sleeveless. Bible versions KJV only to some other versions are okay, especially for study at home. No TV/never set foot in a movie theater to TV in the home is fine as long as you are careful what you watch, same with movies. No alcohol at all ever to alcohol in moderation is fine. No dancing ever to line dancing is okay. Absolutely no touching, 6 inch rule to holding hands is okay after engagement to hugging/kissing is fine just no sex prior to marriage. Music could be only hymns with only piano and organ accompaniment to a drum in the orchestra was okay as long as it was used sparingly to a full-out worship band. If you were at church any less than Sunday School, Sunday morning service, Sunday evening service, Wednesday evening service, Thursday night soulwinning, Saturday bus calling and youth activities you were less than to Sunday AM service with small groups or studies throughout the week to home church.

I could go on but I won't, LOL.

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Gothard has his IBLP/ATI variety. Vision Forum is another variety. Then you have IFBx "camps" (some of which may also be IBLP or VF) somewhat broken up by colleges Hyles-Anderson, Bob Jones U., Tennessee Temple U., Landmarkists, Ruckmanites, Bob Gray, Sr. of TX, Bob Gray, Jr. of TX (both influenced by IBLP), Golden State, North Valley, etc. ;and then IFBxxers like Steve Anderson; non- Baptist but fundie like Pensacola Christian College; and IFB who want nothing to do with the legalism of the aforementioned IFBx or xxer churches but are still independent churches who hold the fundamentals of the Baptist denominations. Then you've also got Reformed Baptists. And Church of God Holiness. Etc., etc.

 

Y'all should see the time I made a map, a la Charlie Day, for my now-fiance trying to explain the fundie branches.

[Marionette]

1 hour ago, nolongerIFBx said:

I think that all are going to believe the fundamentals of the faith; the differences are mostly external. Only one of the pastors I knew while in IFBX-dom were against birth control and I don't think he preached against it but people were aware that he personally was against it. Dress is another external difference all the way from pants on women/ shorts on women and men are fine, one piece bathing suits are fine, to dresses only for women/long pants only for men, all shirts must have collars/ no T-shirts, jeans for work only, if you choose to wear a straight rather than a full skirt, the slit has to be sewn up, regular clothes for swimming, for women, nothing lower than an inch below your collar bone, no keyhole blouse/dress closures, nothing sleeveless. Bible versions KJV only to some other versions are okay, especially for study at home. No TV/never set foot in a movie theater to TV in the home is fine as long as you are careful what you watch, same with movies. No alcohol at all ever to alcohol in moderation is fine. No dancing ever to line dancing is okay. Absolutely no touching, 6 inch rule to holding hands is okay after engagement to hugging/kissing is fine just no sex prior to marriage. Music could be only hymns with only piano and organ accompaniment to a drum in the orchestra was okay as long as it was used sparingly to a full-out worship band. If you were at church any less than Sunday School, Sunday morning service, Sunday evening service, Wednesday evening service, Thursday night soulwinning, Saturday bus calling and youth activities you were less than to Sunday AM service with small groups or studies throughout the week to home church.

I could go on but I won't, LOL.

Exactly! The core beliefs are essentially the same, but there are lifestyle differences. 

[BeccaGrim]

15 hours ago, MaryOrMartha said:

The latter. I come from a fundie lite background and that's definitely how they're viewed, with some pity thrown in for good measure.

So I know she is sometimes controversial on here, but Pickles (on FB) has said for years that Jana was once promised to a fundie guy when they were young and it fell apart (the guy backed out) and so I can see her quite seriously being a cautionary tale. I'm wondering they blamed her for that. 

[Daisy0322]

2 hours ago, nolongerIFBx said:

I think that all are going to believe the fundamentals of the faith; the differences are mostly external. Only one of the pastors I knew while in IFBX-dom were against birth control and I don't think he preached against it but people were aware that he personally was against it. Dress is another external difference all the way from pants on women/ shorts on women and men are fine, one piece bathing suits are fine, to dresses only for women/long pants only for men, all shirts must have collars/ no T-shirts, jeans for work only, if you choose to wear a straight rather than a full skirt, the slit has to be sewn up, regular clothes for swimming, for women, nothing lower than an inch below your collar bone, no keyhole blouse/dress closures, nothing sleeveless. Bible versions KJV only to some other versions are okay, especially for study at home. No TV/never set foot in a movie theater to TV in the home is fine as long as you are careful what you watch, same with movies. No alcohol at all ever to alcohol in moderation is fine. No dancing ever to line dancing is okay. Absolutely no touching, 6 inch rule to holding hands is okay after engagement to hugging/kissing is fine just no sex prior to marriage. Music could be only hymns with only piano and organ accompaniment to a drum in the orchestra was okay as long as it was used sparingly to a full-out worship band. If you were at church any less than Sunday School, Sunday morning service, Sunday evening service, Wednesday evening service, Thursday night soulwinning, Saturday bus calling and youth activities you were less than to Sunday AM service with small groups or studies throughout the week to home church.

I could go on but I won't, LOL.

Thank you, I find all the rules fascinating. As a evil catholic there’s “rules” but like no one usually follows them so harshly. For instance the church says no birth control... well I know a few people with 4 or 5 kids and many with 2-3  but I don’t know anyone who forgoes birth control altogether.just these grown ass adults just blindly following because someone said or you’ll go to hell is crazy to me. And the whole revival thing totally freaks me out they sound scary ?. 

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

So I know she is sometimes controversial on here, but Pickles (on FB) has said for years that Jana was once promised to a fundie guy when they were young and it fell apart (the guy backed out) and so I can see her quite seriously being a cautionary tale. I'm wondering they blamed her for that. 

funny pickles mentioned that the other day and was teasing with releasing the guys name. I am guessing she was full of shit and didnt do it? I know there was rumours of Turd and a holt girl maybe Janna and a holt boy?

I am actually curious to know who the boy is?

Were the holts the ones that helped in the early specials with building house/s maybe duggar and bates ones? Has anyone been able to prove the falling out of the families (prehaps over the josh thing)? Was the holt dad the one that was dying of cancer awhile back they were asking for donations for?

[becky_m2001]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

was the eldest girl meant to marry Josh?

What is the eldest holt boy up to now? 

I am assuming the families no longer see each other? Is it hard to do in their circles?

I don't think the eldest girl was meant to marry Josh. I've heard that she was a babysitter during the time of the scandal. The eldest Holt boy got married and then got divorced. I'm pretty sure he's left the fundie life. I haven't seen the Holts/Duggars pictured together in probably 4-5 years.

[AussieKrissy]

6 minutes ago, becky_m2001 said:

I don't think the eldest girl was meant to marry Josh. I've heard that she was a babysitter during the time of the scandal. The eldest Holt boy got married and then got divorced. I'm pretty sure he's left the fundie life. I haven't seen the Holts/Duggars pictured together in probably 4-5 years.

well they must have kissed and made up then I would not expect to have seen them together in about 15 years then. were the holts ever on the show or am I still confusing them with the wilsons?

 

[Marionette]

27 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

well they must have kissed and made up then I would not expect to have seen them together in about 15 years then. were the holts ever on the show or am I still confusing them with the wilsons?

 

The Holts were in the Duggars’ original tv special.  Josh and the eldest Holt girl are seen chatting.... even though I believe it was filmed around/after the incident. Or wasn’t there a “second wave”? Can’t remember. 

The Wilsons were a part of the Duggars’ home church at the same time, before they moved back to Mississippi (they are mentioned in JB&M’s first book in this context). They have been featured on the show before, but I’m not sure when. 

ETA: JB & Mr. Holt were childhood friends, and somehow the whole thing didn’t cause a complete falling out. But I do think the Holts distanced themselves a bit as a family — while the parents still hang out on occasion (and maybe the girls?). The Holt family has not attended any of the weddings or large events in the last 5-6 years. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Marionette

[marmalade]

I seem to recall hearing that Josh and the oldest Holt daughter (Kayleigh?) were betrothed by their parents. The babysitter has never been identified, and we're not supposed to guess her identity here. However, it's my understanding that when the molestations became public knowledge in their church, the betrothal was broken off by Jim Holt. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by marmalade
Needed a space

[becky_m2001]

11 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I seem to recall hearing that Josh and the oldest Holt daughter (Kayleigh?) were betrothed by their parents. The babysitter has never been identified, and we're not supposed to guess her identity here. However, it's my understanding that when the molestations became public knowledge in their church, the betrothal was broken off by Jim Holt. 

Sorry if I posted something I wasn't supposed to. I was just repeating what I heard on Pickles.

[marmalade]

Pickles is an unreliable narrator. ?

[WarriorJane]

Didn't Jim Holt run for office and lose around the same time Jim Bob did and blame the loss on "sin in the camp"?  I might be thinking of something else entirely. 

[clueliss]

@WarriorJane - based on  my memories from reading at TWOP back in the day - yes.

[Johannah]

The Holts were featured playing broomball with the Duggars on one of the early specials. And during that outing JB was answering producer questions about rules for kids engaging with the opposite sex. It is odd that the Holts have not really been seen or mentioned since then. I think in that special they were described as their closest family friends. 

[OrchidBlossom]

19 hours ago, marmalade said:

Pickles is an unreliable narrator. ?

Holden Caulfield is more reliable than Pickles

 

1 hour ago, Johannah said:

The Holts were featured playing broomball with the Duggars on one of the early specials. And during that outing JB was answering producer questions about rules for kids engaging with the opposite sex. It is odd that the Holts have not really been seen or mentioned since then. I think in that special they were described as their closest family friends. 

The Duggs don't have close family friends, so I'm sure that was true in the moment. They go through acquaintances like I go through socks.

[Mabel]

2 hours ago, Johannah said:

The Holts were featured playing broomball with the Duggars on one of the early specials. And during that outing JB was answering producer questions about rules for kids engaging with the opposite sex. It is odd that the Holts have not really been seen or mentioned since then. I think in that special they were described as their closest family friends. 

I actually just rewatched the early episodes out of boredom, and you're right! The first special they did, the Holts have a decent amount of screen time. They also say how they would go over to the Duggars for their home church. I think for the special it was probably played up as being close friends, but really it was probably just friends by proxy.

[Cults-r-us]

Haha! I almost flunked out out of nursing school because of PE. I took bowling. That should be do-able, maybe even fun, right? Well those little Nazarenes where I went to college: no movies or cards or dancing or smoking or sex or partying or wearing shorts or any normal teenage things. So what did they do for fun? They bowled! And this teacher graded on the curve. So you see I scraped by with a C-.

Also they vehemently opposed speaking in tongues. One teacher was fired for saying while he didn't believe in it, each to their own. Apparently holiness denominations differ from penacostal in this area.

As a side note, the other day I went to a garage sale and met some nice fundie women whose head coverings were a small starched, 2 creased scarf affair. As another side note, they reminded me vaguely of little chapel veils (or kleenex or trash from the ground) you pinned on your head to go to mass 60's Catholic church. 

[Cults-r-us]

5 hours ago, WarriorJane said:

Didn't Jim Holt run for office and lose around the same time Jim Bob did and blame the loss on "sin in the camp"?  I might be thinking of something else entirely. 

That was Josh's boss at the Family Research Council who ascertained (correctly) lost because "sin in the camp".