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Jana 10: Advertising Boredom on a Biblical Level


samurai_sarah

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10 hours ago, Scrappinmac said:

I thought the main reason Josie "got in trouble" during the art lesson was because she wasn't using the paints correctly. As in, these were water color paints that needed to be mixed with water, a very little bit of paint with a lot of water. It looked like she was using the paints like normal kid-friendly craft paints, dipping the brush into the paint. One of the other girls said she was doing it wrong, and those concentrated paints can be expensive. 

I can see why Jana wanted her to stop (since Josie wasn't following directions) and said she wasn't ready for those paints yet.

That’s why the whole scene bothered me so much - they basically set Josie up to fail at the task, then punished her for it. The lesson was not developmentally appropriate, plus it looks like there was no real instruction because Jana was absorbed in her own painting/drawing. So Josie did what kids will do when given lots of paint and little structure. It was all made for TV, which makes it even worse. 

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4 minutes ago, mpheels said:

That’s why the whole scene bothered me so much - they basically set Josie up to fail at the task, then punished her for it. The lesson was not developmentally appropriate, plus it looks like there was no real instruction because Jana was absorbed in her own painting/drawing. So Josie did what kids will do when given lots of paint and little structure. It was all made for TV, which makes it even worse. 

Meh...I’m really not seeing what the big deal is. It’s a bunch of kids aged what? 10-14 ish? Some 10 year olds are still very much little kids, some are  more mature and settled. I’d try that activity with kids that age - but also be fully aware it might end up with one or more kids not quite being settled and focused enough for the good paint.  Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t still annoy me. You don’t know until you try. It’s not like she was trying to do this with Henry and Gideon. 

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Years from now, when Josie is ready to court, how is she going feel that these incidents have been shown in tv and may still be available. Hey Josie, I saw your blowout when you were a baby, and when you had  a seizure. Remember when your mom got mad because you couldn't get the words right to the national anthem, and Jana said you didn't know how to paint right?

These kids need some privacy and dignity. It's not funny.

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12 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Meh...I’m really not seeing what the big deal is. It’s a bunch of kids aged what? 10-14 ish? Some 10 year olds are still very much little kids, some are  more mature and settled. I’d try that activity with kids that age - but also be fully aware it might end up with one or more kids not quite being settled and focused enough for the good paint.  Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t still annoy me. You don’t know until you try. It’s not like she was trying to do this with Henry and Gideon. 

I agree, I think Jana had hoped it would suit all the girls - and maybe thought she was treating them by letting them do something grown-up and classy.  Clearly the older girls were ready for it and Josie was not.

I actually don't think Jana's response was terrible at all - especially after lots of the sisters tried to correct Josie on her use of the paint - but it is very likely coloured by decades of experience of not really getting 'nice' things. With 18 siblings Jana must be so sick of having to share everything, having to compromise all activities for the least able sibling, having things precious to her destroyed or depleted or misused. I imagine nice expensive paints are something she hasn't felt she could have in the house until relatively recently, and sharing them with her siblings places a huge burden of trust on them to use them appropriately. So it was potentially more emotive and frustrating for her than it could otherwise have been. And is just another indicator of her crippling lack of autonomy aged 30.

My mother was an artist/illustrator when I was small and the temptation to raid her art supplies was overpowering. When she felt I was of an age to understand how to use them responsibly, she taught me to use things like inks, pastels, expensive watercolours, and oils. I loved that. But she was always so clear about using them sensibly, not wasting them, respecting that they were not toys and not mine. I doubt Duggar kids get much of that training.

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1 hour ago, AprilQuilt said:

I agree, I think Jana had hoped it would suit all the girls - and maybe thought she was treating them by letting them do something grown-up and classy.  Clearly the older girls were ready for it and Josie was not.

I actually don't think Jana's response was terrible at all - especially after lots of the sisters tried to correct Josie on her use of the paint - but it is very likely coloured by decades of experience of not really getting 'nice' things. With 18 siblings Jana must be so sick of having to share everything, having to compromise all activities for the least able sibling, having things precious to her destroyed or depleted or misused. I imagine nice expensive paints are something she hasn't felt she could have in the house until relatively recently, and sharing them with her siblings places a huge burden of trust on them to use them appropriately. So it was potentially more emotive and frustrating for her than it could otherwise have been. And is just another indicator of her crippling lack of autonomy aged 30.

My mother was an artist/illustrator when I was small and the temptation to raid her art supplies was overpowering. When she felt I was of an age to understand how to use them responsibly, she taught me to use things like inks, pastels, expensive watercolours, and oils. I loved that. But she was always so clear about using them sensibly, not wasting them, respecting that they were not toys and not mine. I doubt Duggar kids get much of that training.

I agree with all of this, which makes me circle back to the idea that successfully and healthfully raising, nurturing, encouraging  that many kids is not doable. There are only 24 hours in a day, so all but the very needs of everyone is turfed. Most sane people realize and accept this fact, and stop at a reasonable number. People who really love and cherish children stop having more children for the health, safety and sanity of all concerned.

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On 8/4/2020 at 9:05 AM, AprilQuilt said:

I agree, I think Jana had hoped it would suit all the girls - and maybe thought she was treating them by letting them do something grown-up and classy.  Clearly the older girls were ready for it and Josie was not.

I actually don't think Jana's response was terrible at all - especially after lots of the sisters tried to correct Josie on her use of the paint - but it is very likely coloured by decades of experience of not really getting 'nice' things. With 18 siblings Jana must be so sick of having to share everything, having to compromise all activities for the least able sibling, having things precious to her destroyed or depleted or misused. I imagine nice expensive paints are something she hasn't felt she could have in the house until relatively recently, and sharing them with her siblings places a huge burden of trust on them to use them appropriately. So it was potentially more emotive and frustrating for her than it could otherwise have been. And is just another indicator of her crippling lack of autonomy aged 30.

My mother was an artist/illustrator when I was small and the temptation to raid her art supplies was overpowering. When she felt I was of an age to understand how to use them responsibly, she taught me to use things like inks, pastels, expensive watercolours, and oils. I loved that. But she was always so clear about using them sensibly, not wasting them, respecting that they were not toys and not mine. I doubt Duggar kids get much of that training.

But somehow I doubt that your mother, who was an actual artist, gave you lessons where she sat you down and told you to "paint this flower" without any instruction in technique or how to use the mediums and tools.. My son's (a successful artist) first lesson (not from me, lucky him) was reproducing a painting of flowers in a vase. The teacher taught them HOW to do it, in detail. Either let the kids mess around with what you give them to explore themselves, teach them how to accomplish what you want them to do, or do something else.

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15 minutes ago, patsymae said:

But somehow I doubt that your mother, who was an actual artist, gave you lessons where she sat you down and told you to "paint this flower" without any instruction in technique or how to use the mediums and tools.. My son's (a successful artist) first lesson (not from me, lucky him) was reproducing a painting of flowers in a vase. The teacher taught them HOW to do it, in detail. Either let the kids mess around with what you give them to explore themselves, teach them how to accomplish what you want them to do, or do something else.

This is kind of what I mean, I think the activity was ill-conceived on Jana's behalf. If you're going to introduce children to materials that are expensive and you feel strongly about, supervise them, make damn sure they are ready for it, and be prepared to suffer some losses.  To be totally fair we don't know that she didn't explain how to use the paints - all the other girls seemed to understand, and who knows what gets lost in the edit - and she did say they could do what they wanted, not necessarily copy flowers. You could see one child had painted a cartoony pig?

I think the issue was a combination of her being overly precious about the paints (because reasons outlined above), maybe not taking the time to ensure that all the girls understood the task and were capable of it, but also Josie doing whatever the hell she likes. I strongly suspect there's a tricky dynamic between Jana and Josie as eldest and youngest daughters - Josie I think is indulged by JB and M by virtue of her Precious Miracle status, and seems to monkey around and make a nuisance of herself more than the other girls do. I don't think she gives a crap about Jana's discipline. And I bet her silliness chafes with Jana who has had to be responsible, obedient and controlled since day one.

What I'm curious about is they seem to have filmed this themselves during lockdown? So they chose to send it over to the production company as potential material. Clearly they are not uncomfortable with it being televised: maybe they see it as innocuous, maybe to them it's just another facet of rambunctious family life, maybe they are shaming Josie's naughtiness, maybe Jana rejects the sin of pridefulness and wishes this to be a teachable moment. Maybe they just thought the whole watercolours-in-a-greenhouse setup was too Pinterest to waste. I would love to know what the Duggars themselves thought they were communicating here.

Edited by AprilQuilt
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24 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

This is kind of what I mean, I think the activity was ill-conceived on Jana's behalf. If you're going to introduce children to materials that are expensive and you feel strongly about, supervise them, make damn sure they are ready for it, and be prepared to suffer some losses.  To be totally fair we don't know that she didn't explain how to use the paints - all the other girls seemed to understand, and who knows what gets lost in the edit - and she did say they could do what they wanted, not necessarily copy flowers. You could see one child had painted a cartoony pig?

I think the issue was a combination of her being overly precious about the paints (because reasons outlined above), maybe not taking the time to ensure that all the girls understood the task and were capable of it, but also Josie doing whatever the hell she likes. I strongly suspect there's a tricky dynamic between Jana and Josie as eldest and youngest daughters - Josie I think is indulged by JB and M by virtue of her Precious Miracle status, and seems to monkey around and make a nuisance of herself more than the other girls do. I don't think she gives a crap about Jana's discipline. And I bet her silliness chafes with Jana who has had to be responsible, obedient and controlled since day one.

What I'm curious about is they seem to have filmed this themselves during lockdown? So they chose to send it over to the production company as potential material. Clearly they are not uncomfortable with it being televised: maybe they see it as innocuous, maybe to them it's just another facet of rambunctious family life, maybe they are shaming Josie's naughtiness, maybe Jana rejects the sin of pridefulness and wishes this to be a teachable moment. Maybe they just thought the whole watercolours-in-a-greenhouse setup was too Pinterest to waste. I would love to know what the Duggars themselves thought they were communicating here.

So much of what has been filmed has been edited. We don’t know if Jana explained and demonstrated the technique. We don’t know if Josie had several attempts. That could have been the third or fourth she tried. Jana spoke calmly but firmly. I think she was fine with Josie. Josie perhaps prefers more active pursuits. She might as well run and play now as it will soon be curtailed. 

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13 minutes ago, Markie said:

So much of what has been filmed has been edited. We don’t know if Jana explained and demonstrated the technique. We don’t know if Josie had several attempts. That could have been the third or fourth she tried. Jana spoke calmly but firmly. I think she was fine with Josie. Josie perhaps prefers more active pursuits. She might as well run and play now as it will soon be curtailed. 

Well, from this and from what other people have said, I'm remembering that Jana as a 20s something adult had to share her bed with baby (Josie?), respond to the medical emergency for Josie because their actual parents were out of the country, etc. Fucked up back story for a painting "lesson"

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I remember getting really frustrated with my preschool-aged cousins when they couldn’t just sit still and follow the story I was reading them, or play as structurally as I was playing. Then again, I was 7-9 at the time. I was unable to see they were younger and thus not yet ready for those things. The fact that I started reading at four and essentially used my parents to distinguish words (I’d always follow what they read to me, and would ask them to change a word in a story such as a character’s name, while still keeping my eyes on the printed text) didn’t help me empathize. Eventually we all grew up and the problems went away. They’re in college now.

My point being, Jana has been stunted and kept away from knowledge regarding child development. Throw in the obvious difference in expectations between her and Josie. Josie’s no one’s buddy, she even plays while her early teenage sisters arrange her sister-in-law’s nursery. At her age, Jana was responsible for some of her siblings and running the house. She could do that, she could be serious, she could follow instructions, why can’t Josie?

Jana’s life hasn’t changed much since she was six years old. She must be bitter deep down, while simultaneously unable to and refusing to really understand why.

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14 minutes ago, FreeTheScapegoats said:

I remember getting really frustrated with my preschool-aged cousins when they couldn’t just sit still and follow the story I was reading them, or play as structurally as I was playing. Then again, I was 7-9 at the time. I was unable to see they were younger and thus not yet ready for those things. The fact that I started reading at four and essentially used my parents to distinguish words (I’d always follow what they read to me, and would ask them to change a word in a story such as a character’s name, while still keeping my eyes on the printed text) didn’t help me empathize. Eventually we all grew up and the problems went away. They’re in college now.

My point being, Jana has been stunted and kept away from knowledge regarding child development. Throw in the obvious difference in expectations between her and Josie. Josie’s no one’s buddy, she even plays while her early teenage sisters arrange her sister-in-law’s nursery. At her age, Jana was responsible for some of her siblings and running the house. She could do that, she could be serious, she could follow instructions, why can’t Josie?

Jana’s life hasn’t changed much since she was six years old. She must be bitter deep down, while simultaneously unable to and refusing to really understand why.

The stunting of the older girls began when they were in adolescence. JB has this uncanny parenting approach where he has youngsters performing adult tasks, likely as a way to lighten his and Michelle’s work load, while at the same curtailing developmentally appropriate educational, emotional and social activities for young adults. He makes adults out of 8 year olds and retards the intellectual growth and curiosity of young adults. IMO, it is pathological. Jana could leave the TTH. She could secure a job as a live in nanny or perhaps work in a restaurant, and live with one of her brothers; Jed and Jer have a spare room...it’s criminal that a 30 YO single woman doesn’t realize that she has options.

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2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The stunting of the older girls began when they were in adolescence. JB has this uncanny parenting approach where he has youngsters performing adult tasks, likely as a way to lighten his and Michelle’s work load, while at the same curtailing developmentally appropriate educational, emotional and social activities for young adults. He makes adults out of 8 year olds and retards the intellectual growth and curiosity of young adults. IMO, it is pathological. Jana could leave the TTH. She could secure a job as a live in nanny or perhaps work in a restaurant, and live with one of her brothers; Jed and Jer have a spare room...it’s criminal that a 30 YO single woman doesn’t realize that she has options.

Quoting myself here because it just dawned on me that JB stunts the older kids, females in particular, for the same reason he makes 8 YOs shoulder adult responsibilities, to keep them around and dependent to lighten his load-

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13 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Quoting myself here because it just dawned on me that JB stunts the older kids, females in particular, for the same reason he makes 8 YOs shoulder adult responsibilities, to keep them around and dependent to lighten his load-

I believe that lightening the load is only a small part of it. JB seems to have the need to be the supreme controller over as many people as possible to feel good about himself. He's got to be the most important person everywhere he goes. His obedient and dedicated-to-him children serve as proof to JB's supremacy (in his mind.) 

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I think being the unquestioned, fawned over headship is what sold JB on fundamentalism. On many issues, I think Michelle is more the true blue believer. I think JB came and stayed for being large and in charge. 

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We need to discuss Jana’s “form a line” picture on Instagram ? Trying to be funny but kind of painfully awkward...

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Well I see f***head Lawson was quick to reply. He just couldn’t resist typing. He just couldn’t bare the thought of people not bringing him into the convo. God I hate him. 

Edited by AnnaRuk09
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That's just, so....oooof.  ?

And of course Lawson had to comment.  You're not even remotely funny, dude.  

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Honestly that episode made me realize how young Josie acts/looks. I can hardly believe she’s 10, I’d have said maybe 8? If she was in evil public school, she’d be about to go into middle school, but she acts much younger. 
 

TLC has spent all season acting like they have some big announcement. I’m not gonna speculate, for the millionth time, on it. 

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1 hour ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

That's just, so....oooof.  ?

And of course Lawson had to comment.  You're not even remotely funny, dude.  

Yeah Lawson is so desperate for attention, it’s so gross. I can see how some women might find him attractive, and maybe it’s bc he’s not my type, but he just seems so weaselly with all his attention seeking.

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33 minutes ago, Ever said:

Yeah Lawson is so desperate for attention, it’s so gross. I can see how some women might find him attractive, and maybe it’s bc he’s not my type, but he just seems so weaselly with all his attention seeking.

He reminds me JB Duggar. I wonder if down deep, he is as insecure as the former?

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On 8/8/2020 at 4:41 PM, FreeTheScapegoats said:

Josie’s no one’s buddy, she even plays while her early teenage sisters arrange her sister-in-law’s nursery. At her age, Jana was responsible for some of her siblings and running the house. She could do that, she could be serious, she could follow instructions, why can’t Josie?

Jana’s life hasn’t changed much since she was six years old. She must be bitter deep down, while simultaneously unable to and refusing to really understand why.

This reminds me of a friend I had in high school, who had to raise her ten-years-younger half-sister because their parents had various unnamed problems. I remember once my friend told her sister (who was then around 12), "When I was your age, I was taking care of YOU."

To which the sister replied, "I don't care."

Then decades later, when their mom fked up her finances to the point where she was almost homeless, my friend took care of everything while the sister didn't do a damn thing. But guess who the mom's favorite kid was?

So yeah, I can understand how Jana must feel.

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Jana is wearing pants in her latest Instagram pic. The commenters are all very excited (except for Jessa, who focuses on what Grace is wearing.)

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