Gwen Shamblin Lara 10: Hanging onto the Wine

[Blue]

I don't know about @rayneflower, but from the outside looking in, I do see good... not in Gwen Shamblin's teachings, but in the community. I think the way they come together and support each other is what we are called to Biblically (although I VERY MUCH disagree with how they support each other to the exclusion of everyone outside of RF). I do like they they acknowledge the Jewish feasts (though I think if you're going to make it a selling point of why you have the ONE true church, then you need to celebrate them properly... with the right customs on the correct dates). I wish more churches would do that because the feasts are a part of church history and represent the promises of God. 

I disagree with 99% of what RF stands for, and I think Gwen is a charlatan who is leading people astray and far from Biblical truth... but those few things that are good are what draw people in and hold people there, despite all the huge bright flaming red flags. They're the things RF people cling to... the things our friends and family shove in our faces day after day, year after year. I don't deny those things are good... but so is ice cream... you know, until you get to the cyanide sprinkles.

[rayneflower]

It's mostly what I see on Facebook, there are some things she posts about motivation and devotion. 

I've never actually sat and listened to one of her sermons, but the stuff I see her post on Facebook I like. 

[AmazonGrace]

IMO the best of her Fakebook posts are just Bible quotes on a pretty background but some of her own content is just as harmful as her Delusionals. 

Any self-denial is amazing, go for it with everything you have.. 

This is dangerous Pro Ana level stuff IMO. In reality there is self-denial that is good for you, or helps the people around you, and there is self-denial that serves no useful purpose and may eventually kill you. Martyrs suffered for a cause; making yourself suffer just to enjoy feelings of superiority doesn't make you a martyr. 

[AmazonGrace]

Spoiler

Today we have weird capitalization and random flattery. Probably you overeat because Satan knows you would save everyone's souls if you were skinny. 

[RFsurvivor]

7 hours ago, rayneflower said:

It's mostly what I see on Facebook, there are some things she posts about motivation and devotion. 

I've never actually sat and listened to one of her sermons, but the stuff I see her post on Facebook I like. 

So I can totally understand that as a stand-alone thing, some of her Facebook posts seem good. Thank you for explaining! This is how she sucks people into taking a weigh down class or Remnant. Little bits of the message do not sound crazy or fundie, but once you put it all together....

[Concerned1954]

This comes to mind:

https://youtu.be/unz1CGoFVMU

[SuperNova]

Quote

It is so important to remember that YOU are loved so much, and love is going to be the key that unlocks the door to permanent weight loss... 

So Michael weight loss wasn't permanent because god didn't love him enough? 

Quote

Now, This last point is key because the satanic warfare around you is amaz­ing. The enemy does not want you to be successful, so it is clear that you are very valuable. You could be a link to bringing many hurting souls to God! You must be a very likable person, a rare quality. These points will be critical to keep close to your heart as you walk out this journey!

I literally sighed when I read this. Teaching people to jump at shadows and to be afraid of whatever another person has deemed "satanic warfare" is beyond awful. There is no battle going on where you are suddenly lifted from regular life and become "very valuable". There is no enemy, you are not a link, you are not rare and set apart from others, you are just the same and ordinary as the rest of humanity. The only importance the average RF member seems to have is how much they can line Gwen's pockets.

[AmazonGrace]

But I love it how every damn person who reads this is an extremely rare breed of a likable person.

[SilverBeach]

15 hours ago, Blue said:

I wish more churches would do that because the feasts are a part of church history and represent the promises of God. 

The feasts are a part of Jewish history. I hate quasi-Judaism. 

[formergothardite]

58 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

The feasts are a part of Jewish history. I hate quasi-Judaism. 

I agree. Church history is very different than Jewish history.  I find it weird since the Christians who celebrate these Jewish feasts typically think the Jewish religion is wrong. 

Much like the trinity, I don't think Gwen thought deeply about latching onto Jewish traditions. She seems to grab anything that will make her stand out as being different than a traditional church. 

 

[Marmion]

17 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

IMO the best of her Fakebook posts are just Bible quotes on a pretty background but some of her own content is just as harmful as her Delusionals. 

Any self-denial is amazing, go for it with everything you have.. 

This is dangerous Pro Ana level stuff IMO. In reality there is self-denial that is good for you, or helps the people around you, and there is self-denial that serves no useful purpose and may eventually kill you. Martyrs suffered for a cause; making yourself suffer just to enjoy feelings of superiority doesn't make you a martyr. 

This just brought to mind these two songs I first heard at a Nazarene singspiration .  

 

So unfortunately it would seem that the belief that one must suffer , and die to self , is not just limited to the likes of Remnant Fellowship .   I am not sure how other Christians would interpret this , but Holiness people , and more generally Bible based cults , cite these as proof texts  .  John 3 :30   , Matt. 16 : 24   

[Blue]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I agree. Church history is very different than Jewish history.  I find it weird since the Christians who celebrate these Jewish feasts typically think the Jewish religion is wrong. 

Much like the trinity, I don't think Gwen thought deeply about latching onto Jewish traditions. She seems to grab anything that will make her stand out as being different than a traditional church. 

 

I guess I view it differently? I think teaching about the feasts and acknowledging them is a good thing... do I think Christians need to full on celebrate the Jewish Holy Days? No, and I don't think they NEED to even acknowledge them, but I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging the feasts and the why and how of them. I know that Christianity is based on the New Testament, but that doesn't mean the Old Testament, and it's traditions and culture, don't have value. Just like I don't think there's anything wrong with churches hosting a Seder meal at Passover. Then again, we also teach our kids about the Islamic holidays, so maybe we're just weird like that. 

But I 100% agree that Gwen just latches onto things that make her and her group "special." It makes her followers feel more set apart and unique because they do things SO differently. I think that's why they have their special dances (can someone PLEASE find me a copy of the purity dance? I saw it years and years ago on a webcast and haven't been able to find it since) and their special phrases and their special marriage covenant they sign... it really solidifies the idea that you're special and better than those around you.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Blue

[AmazonGrace]

I thought that it's a sin to try to control one's eating but that's so two days ago, today we need to fine tune our eating 

Spoiler

 

[formergothardite]

9 hours ago, Blue said:

I think teaching about the feasts and acknowledging them is a good thing...

I can see if it is done with respect and learning about a religion. It just feels icky to me when Christians co-op Jewish celebrations while also claiming the Jewish people are wrong in their beliefs and need to convert to the "one true religion". 

I don't think it is wrong to teach about the celebrations in a way that explains the history and importance to the Jewish people. But I have found that Christians and churches that typically celebrate the Jewish feasts are not doing it in that way. It is more celebrating, tossing in some Jesus, and still maintaining Christians are the only ones going to heaven. 

And I can't believe Gwen is using The Growl again! She has dropped if for so long. Her Growl worship makes it so obvious her focus is on hunger. Hunger is a connection to God? Pretty sure that isn't in the Bible. Jesus fed people when they got hungry, he didn't say to worship hunger. 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Pretty sure Jesus didn't fast because it's so much fun to weigh less than yesterday either.

[SilverBeach]

10 hours ago, Blue said:

I know that Christianity is based on the New Testament, but that doesn't mean the Old Testament, and it's traditions and culture, don't have value.

I certainly never said this. But full-on appropriating Jewish feasts and festivals for the purpose of  appearing holier than though like Gwod does is just pimping Judaism, not showing respect for it.. 

 

10 hours ago, Blue said:

Just like I don't think there's anything wrong with churches hosting a Seder meal at Passover. Then again, we also teach our kids about the Islamic holidays, so maybe we're just weird like that. 

I like that UUs teach children about various spiritual traditions. Nothing wrong with that either. I have not ever seen a church hosting a Seder meal at Passover, as that occurs during Easter season which is the holiest time of year for many Christians.  We don't live in a Christian only world, that's the problem with fundies who adhere to such a narrow world view. It leads to ignorance and intolerance. It does sound like you are advocating UU type practices, but I think that most churches don't full-on celebrate the traditions of other faiths.

I wish Jesus had plainly stated whether or not his followers needed to practice Judaism as he did.  The decision to make Christianity separate from Judaism was an executive decision made long after Jesus was gone. While Jesus was alive, his followers were also known as "the Nazarene sect", sect of Judaism that is. That's one reason I have never understood purported Christians who hate Jewish people, when Christ himself was one. 

[formergothardite]

20 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

That's one reason I have never understood purported Christians who hate Jewish people, when Christ himself was one. 

The "blame the Jews" can even be seen in the NT where it is the awful Jews who call for death of Jesus while poor, helpless Pilot wanted to release him.  We don't know a lot historically about Pilot but from the little we do know he doesn't see like someone who would helplessly sit wringing his hands while a man he views as innocent is killed and a man who killed a Roman is set free. Setting free a rebel who killed a Roman would not have happened and the custom of setting a prisoner free isn't one that seems to have actually existed. So it is interesting to think about why the writers of the Gospels decided to blame the Jews and the long term impact of that decision. I am not really informed about what was going on during the period when the Gospels were written between the Early Christians and the Jews if anyone happens to know. But based on the "blame the awful Jews" plot in the Gospels I'm assuming there were some hard feelings. 

Have we discussed this picture? Joe writes: She has my heart and my total support! Best view in the house! I’m a blessed man! But he  looks like he is plotting her murder. I would say it is all his bad plastic surgery, but there is a video of him playing the guitar and singing with a friend where he manages to look happy during parts of it. When he is with Gwen he always looks like he is miserable and just barely holding it together. 

How long can he last being with her before he realizes the money isn't worth trying to pretend he likes Gwen?

Spoiler

 

[Blue]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I don't think it is wrong to teach about the celebrations in a way that explains the history and importance to the Jewish people. But I have found that Christians and churches that typically celebrate the Jewish feasts are not doing it in that way. It is more celebrating, tossing in some Jesus, and still maintaining Christians are the only ones going to heaven. 

I see what you're saying, and I can see where it would be easy for a church to slip into just being condescending about it... the way Gwen has most definitely done. I personally haven't ever gone to a church that did anything other than the Seder meal, so I haven't experienced that personally (though we, as a family, spend time at the Jewish holidays "celebrating" them with our kids... not necessarily following all the customs, but enjoying some of the traditions and learning WHY those things are traditions).

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I certainly never said this. But full-on appropriating Jewish feasts and festivals for the purpose of  appearing holier than though like Gwod does is just pimping Judaism, not showing respect for it.. 

I agree 100%... she uses it for no reason other than to show that HER group is REALLY following God and REALLY doing what He says. But please know, I know that you were not saying that those things didn't have value, but I have come across many Christians who have NO idea what the Jewish feasts are about (because in my experience, most churches fully live in the NT) and who truly have no desire to learn because that's the old covenant and it doesn't matter anymore. I just personally disagree with them... just because we don't live under the old covenant doesn't mean learning about it isn't important... Christianity is based on Jesus who was a Jew, so Jewish history should be important to us.

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I like that UUs teach children about various spiritual traditions. Nothing wrong with that either. I have not ever seen a church hosting a Seder meal at Passover, as that occurs during Easter season which is the holiest time of year for many Christians.  We don't live in a Christian only world, that's the problem with fundies who adhere to such a narrow world view. It leads to ignorance and intolerance. It does sound like you are advocating UU type practices, but I think that most churches don't full-on celebrate the traditions of other faiths.

I wish Jesus had plainly stated whether or not his followers needed to practice Judaism as he did.  The decision to make Christianity separate from Judaism was an executive decision made long after Jesus was gone. While Jesus was alive, his followers were also known as "the Nazarene sect", sect of Judaism that is. That's one reason I have never understood purported Christians who hate Jewish people, when Christ himself was one. 

That honestly surprises me because we've lived in many states over the decades and have seen multiple churches host a Seder meal. It wasn't always our church, but local churches would often extend the invitation to the other congregations to join them. I knew it wasn't crazy common to host one, but I truly didn't realize that it was something super unique. To be honest, that's why we were always so surprised that they refused to put really any time into the other Jewish holidays. When I worked in kids ministry I asked to do Sunday School lesson on one of the feasts (don't remember which) that was happening at that time, and they looked at me like I had two heads. They truly didn't understand why we would do that... and I (still) truly don't understand why we wouldn't.

And don't get me wrong... I'm NOT saying Christian churches should dump Christmas and pick up Hanukkah... but it's always been interesting to me how the feasts just pass by like they didn't happen. We're studying Jesus, and these MAJOR holidays that he most definitely would have celebrated are happening, and most of our congregation doesn't have any idea. I think there is a fine line between educating and honoring holidays that may not fully belong to our faith... and cherry picking the "fun" and "pretty" parts of these holidays to appear better than everyone else (as Gwen does). 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Blue

[Blue]

40 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I am not really informed about what was going on during the period when the Gospels were written between the Early Christians and the Jews if anyone happens to know. But based on the "blame the awful Jews" plot in the Gospels I'm assuming there were some hard feelings. 

I'd have to do a lot more research because it's been a LONG time, but I remember that it was a very dangerous and chaotic time. After Stephen was martyred everyone scattered, and Christians (and maybe Jews? I'm sorry, I really need to educate myself more on this) were being persecuted fairly heavily.

42 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

 She has my heart and my total support! Best view in the house! I’m a blessed man!

I refuse to believe that post was ANYTHING but 100% scripted... this was written directly to pander to their followers who always felt bad for poor, poor Gwen for having a husband who just didn't see her spiritual genius... and look, NOW she has a husband who gives her his heart and his total support! -- insert a fake happy "praise God!!" in here --

[formergothardite]

9 minutes ago, Blue said:

I personally haven't ever gone to a church that did anything other than the Seder meal,

How did they present the Seder meal? Was it to learn about another religion? Because I don't see an issue with teaching about other religions and celebrating their holidays as long as it is done in a respectful manner and not in a "we are taking this and adding it to our religion and those folks are going to hell" way. What Gwen does is not respectful and we have discussed so many people here of FJ who become "fake Jews" and none of it is ever respectful. They always push taking the Jewish customs while claiming the Jewish religion is wrong because they rejected Jesus. 

This is not something I experienced growing up.  Christians latching onto Jewish customs while saying Jews rejected Jesus seems to be becoming more common, but I personally don't know of people in my real life who do that. 

 

[Insightful]

12 hours ago, Blue said:

But I 100% agree that Gwen just latches onto things that make her and her group "special." It makes her followers feel more set apart and unique because they do things SO differently.

I certainly agree with you, Blue but I think there is more to it as well...I think this is another example of the BITE model.  She is creating a division among families.  "Um, sorry, we can't go to your Christmas celebration, we're doing the Festival of Lights. We don't recognize Easter, we are celebrating Passover."  No Thanksgiving either? "Well, we have Feast of the Harvest!"  I truly believe she has created a substitute holiday for each traditional Christian one (well, even non-Christians celebrate Thanksgiving!).  I know that certain ones (FOTH) may fall at a different time but it's still a substitute IMO.

[formergothardite]

9 minutes ago, Blue said:

and Christians (and maybe Jews? I'm sorry, I really need to educate myself more on this) were being persecuted fairly heavily.

I'm sure there was persecution but I find it interesting that the writers of the Gospel decided to create a story where they blame the Jews for the death of Jesus while making a man who, according to historical writing tended to persecute Jews, into an innocent person who fought to save Jesus.

And we should all know that we have thought more deeply about all these subjects than Gwen has. Can anyone see her even attempting a discussion like this? 

[Blue]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

How did they present the Seder meal? Was it to learn about another religion? Because I don't see an issue with teaching about other religions and celebrating their holidays as long as it is done in a respectful manner and not in a "we are taking this and adding it to our religion and those folks are going to hell" way. What Gwen does is not respectful and we have discussed so many people here of FJ who become "fake Jews" and none of it is ever respectful. They always push taking the Jewish customs while claiming the Jewish religion is wrong because they rejected Jesus. 

This is not something I experienced growing up.  Christians latching onto Jewish customs while saying Jews rejected Jesus seems to be becoming more common, but I personally don't know of people in my real life who do that. 

 

We only went once (it wasn't kid friendly and pretty expensive for us poor newlyweds) but it was incredibly respectful. It was a very somber time. They did their best to do every custom exactly right, and at each point in the meal they explained why something was done. The Bible (obvs OT) was read throughout to highlight the reasons behind specific customs and foods that were shared. At no point was it ever "WE'RE doing this because we actually respect Jesus... THEY do it because they hate and killed Jesus..." but again, I've never actually seen that mentality in a church I've attended. One year they partnered with a Messianic Jewish congregation, and I heard great things about that meal, but we didn't attend so I can't speak to it.

[AmazonGrace]

I don't know about anybody else's church but knowing Gwen I'd be shocked if there wasn't an element of getting a rush from thinking that you're  so much better at being the chosen people than the chosen people.

Jews aren't all skinny you know.

[SuperNova]

Quote

Many of you have struggled with the scales—with a fear of weigh­ing, a fear of the “number” and a panic to get a certain size or weight.

I don't think that most people feel fear and panic around scales. This sounds related to eating disorders and body dismorphia.

Quote

There is going to be noth­ing like it, followed by getting up the next day and weighing less than you did the day before. It is so fun!

Weight can fluctuate by several pounds from day to day. No one should be losing weight at a pace that allows them to see a difference from one day to the next.*

 

*Barring weight loss from health issues, gastric bypass, starving yourself, etc.