More Wilkes/Neely engagements

[Mari2]

Perusing the Neely Team blog.  Two Neely daughters have become engaged to two Wilkes sons.  Double wedding?

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 hours ago, Mari2 said:

Perusing the Neely Team blog.  Two Neely daughters have become engaged to two Wilkes sons.  Double wedding?

Yes, someone posted on the unmarried fundies thread that two more Neely daughters got engaged to two Wilkes brothers. Their older sister married a Wilkes years ago. It looks like they got engaged at the same time so I imagine a double wedding is likely. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

So, this is the third Wilkes and Neely marriage. Jessica Neely is marrying Daniel Wilkes and Susanna Neely is marrying Adam Wilkes. Amanda Neely married Matthew Wilkes back in 2013. I am interested in seeing how the newly betrothed couples tell their story. 

[Laura2730]

Victoria neely is also now engaged: https://www.theneelyteam.com/2019/11/07/the-lords-marvelous-work-continued/

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, Laura2730 said:

Victoria neely is also now engaged: https://www.theneelyteam.com/2019/11/07/the-lords-marvelous-work-continued/

Please don’t tell me that’s another Wilkes boy!

[NancyDrewFan1989]

I just saw the post, it is definitely not another Wilkes or Staddon boy. He looks like one of David Waller's brothers though. There is no name.

Okay update, on another thread it was revealed that this is not one of David Waller's brothers, like I thought. Also, another person posted the Bed, Bath, and Beyond registries for Susanna and Jessica. It looks like there is going to be a double wedding on February 22, 2020. 

[Giraffe]

There’s nothing wrong with multiple siblings marrying multiple siblings. I know a couple brothers who married a couple sisters and thought nothing of it other than “aww, that’s sweet!” In the case of fundy families I find it creepy. It comes across more as the marriage pool is so limited that these are their options. Do they have a choice in the matter or are they pressured into it? 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Giraffe
Clarifying

[Four is Enough]

All those double first cousins! Shudder...

[AliC]

22 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

There’s nothing wrong with multiple siblings marrying multiple siblings. I know a couple brothers who married a couple sisters and thought nothing of it other than “aww, that’s sweet!” In the case of fundy families I find it creepy. 

It also seems a little desperate. Amanda (the oldest) married in 2013, and Kathryn (third oldest) married in 2016. That leaves four adult daughters still at home until these three marry. Lauren only just turned 18; I hope she's got time yet.

When a fundie family ends up with way more daughters than sons, I'm sure the pressure to marry off starts young.

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

All those double first cousins! Shudder...

I think all the Smorton double first cousins look like siblings. I guess they are just as genetically related as half siblings so it makes sense. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Back in the day, before transportation was as convenient and cheap, multiple siblings intermarrying between two families was pretty common. I have several sets of this happening in my genealogy, as recently as my great-grandparents generation.

It is, of course, 2019, however.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Back in the day, before transportation was as convenient and cheap, multiple siblings intermarrying between two families was pretty common. I have several sets of this happening in my genealogy, as recently as my great-grandparents generation.

It is, of course, 2019, however.

Marrying your second and third cousins wasn’t unheard of either. It’s probably best that the fundies haven’t resurrected that part of history. 

[uber frau]

6 hours ago, Giraffe said:

There’s nothing wrong with multiple siblings marrying multiple siblings. I know a couple brothers who married a couple sisters and thought nothing of it other than “aww, that’s sweet!” In the case of fundy families I find it creepy. It comes across more as the marriage pool is so limited that these are their options. Do they have a choice in the matter or are they pressured into it? 

In the case of Fundies, I get the impression comes from having such limited options.  There's generally such a small number of acceptably 'like-minded' families and there are generally few options for young people to meet anyone outside of their parent's approved social circle. Add in the fact that everyone seems to be in a tremenous hurry since Fundies are obsessed with sex purity and because singleness seems to pretty much be seen as a Failure to Launch and, well, it's not surprising that you get sibling sets marrying sibling sets.

My question is, why does nearly every Gothardite GYM present his would-be fiancé with a bouquet of roses (generally red) and that fluffy white stuff I grew up calling Baby's Breath .  I mean not sure what it's generally called but I do know it pretty much stopped featuring in most floral arrangements in the mid 90s. Every Gothard item proposal seems to feature a handwritten testimony, the same bunch of flowers, a Bible and a diamond ring. (I wouldn't be surprised if Gothard has published a pamphlet called, "The 7 props for a Godly Proposal".) There's no scrap of imagination, it looks like a bunch of cookie cuttered clones reading from the same script.  Creepy as hell

 

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, uber frau said:

My question is, why does nearly every Gothardite GYM present his would-be fiancé with a bouquet of roses (generally red) and that fluffy white stuff I grew up calling Baby's Breath .

They're like-minded?

Also, if it's already fundie-approved the GYM doesn't have to worry about potentially offending the Lord with daisies or some such.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, uber frau said:

In the case of Fundies, I get the impression comes from having such limited options.  There's generally such a small number of acceptably 'like-minded' families and there are generally few options for young people to meet anyone outside of their parent's approved social circle. Add in the fact that everyone seems to be in a tremenous hurry since Fundies are obsessed with sex purity and because singleness seems to pretty much be seen as a Failure to Launch and, well, it's not surprising that you get sibling sets marrying sibling sets.

My question is, why does nearly every Gothardite GYM present his would-be fiancé with a bouquet of roses (generally red) and that fluffy white stuff I grew up calling Baby's Breath .  I mean not sure what it's generally called but I do know it pretty much stopped featuring in most floral arrangements in the mid 90s. Every Gothard item proposal seems to feature a handwritten testimony, the same bunch of flowers, a Bible and a diamond ring. (I wouldn't be surprised if Gothard has published a pamphlet called, "The 7 props for a Godly Proposal".) There's no scrap of imagination, it looks like a bunch of cookie cuttered clones reading from the same script.  Creepy as hell

 

This Wilkes boy deserves a hearty side hug for this flower arrangement. Hopefully he chose something he thought she would love. 

[ViolaSebastian]

6 hours ago, uber frau said:

 

My question is, why does nearly every Gothardite GYM present his would-be fiancé with a bouquet of roses (generally red) and that fluffy white stuff I grew up calling Baby's Breath .  I mean not sure what it's generally called but I do know it pretty much stopped featuring in most floral arrangements in the mid 90s. Every Gothard item proposal seems to feature a handwritten testimony, the same bunch of flowers, a Bible and a diamond ring. (I wouldn't be surprised if Gothard has published a pamphlet called, "The 7 props for a Godly Proposal".) There's no scrap of imagination, it looks like a bunch of cookie cuttered clones reading from the same script.  Creepy as hell

 

My theory on this is that it's the influence of several factors. One, that GYM in this demographic generally lack imagination, not through any fault of their own, necessarily, but because they're stifled quite a bit. This can either be through being put to adult work too early, the expectation that they have to mature quickly, or the lack of access to fiction books, movies, and television shows. (Yes, I realize that in and of itself can stifle imagination, but it can also be the catalyst for imaginative play in some circumstances, or at least the acknowledgement and knowledge that people can create imaginative worlds). There's also an expectation, I think, that novels and other fiction writing is "girly." We have a lot of examples of fundie women going apeshit for Jane Austen and classic movies, but fewer examples of fundie teenage boys being into that sort of thing. This all translates into a lack of imagination and originality on the part of young fundie suitors.

I'd also say that misogyny plays a role in it as well, but it's a subtle kind. I think there's the tendency to think of women as this monolith in fundiedom, all wanting the same thing and having the same needs. All the courtships that they've seen before had the red roses, diamond, Bible, written testimony--and THOSE ladies were happy with it, so why wouldn't the woman in question? It's possible they don't even conceive of the idea that maybe their special gal wants lilies instead of roses, or her birthstone instead of a diamond because her favorite color is green. An inability to express their wants to their partners may also play a role. They're taught to be happy, grateful, and satisfied with whatever they get--and not that I'd turn up my nose at red roses and a diamond ring--but my point is that that's all they see, and in fundiedom, it becomes what it takes to be romantic. 

Then there's outside social expectations, which fundies, despite their efforts, aren't immune from. It's taken a long time to start to move away from diamond rings in society-at-large, so I imagine it's the same in fundiedom. Most people in my circle still get a diamond ring upon engagement, although there are quite a few that go with something different or chose to forgo it all together. It's a classic symbol, and although people are shaking it up more now in terms of engagement rings, it's still considered the go-to. Fundies also tend to be behind the times, just as their nature, so I imagine it'll take quite a few more years for that trend to start to change. The same with red roses--it's a classic flower to give a partner, even if it is tired and boring. I'll admit my current boyfriend sent me red roses for my birthday, and I loved them. 

[Four is Enough]

My practice husband gave me a cocktail ring with my birthstones and diamonds in it for my engagement ring. Green is my favorite color.. and my birthstone is green. I had it made into a stickpin after my disastrous first marriage, but I still love the set!

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

My theory on this is that it's the influence of several factors. One, that GYM in this demographic generally lack imagination, not through any fault of their own, necessarily, but because they're stifled quite a bit. This can either be through being put to adult work too early, the expectation that they have to mature quickly, or the lack of access to fiction books, movies, and television shows. (Yes, I realize that in and of itself can stifle imagination, but it can also be the catalyst for imaginative play in some circumstances, or at least the acknowledgement and knowledge that people can create imaginative worlds). There's also an expectation, I think, that novels and other fiction writing is "girly." We have a lot of examples of fundie women going apeshit for Jane Austen and classic movies, but fewer examples of fundie teenage boys being into that sort of thing. This all translates into a lack of imagination and originality on the part of young fundie suitors.

I'd also say that misogyny plays a role in it as well, but it's a subtle kind. I think there's the tendency to think of women as this monolith in fundiedom, all wanting the same thing and having the same needs. All the courtships that they've seen before had the red roses, diamond, Bible, written testimony--and THOSE ladies were happy with it, so why wouldn't the woman in question? It's possible they don't even conceive of the idea that maybe their special gal wants lilies instead of roses, or her birthstone instead of a diamond because her favorite color is green. An inability to express their wants to their partners may also play a role. They're taught to be happy, grateful, and satisfied with whatever they get--and not that I'd turn up my nose at red roses and a diamond ring--but my point is that that's all they see, and in fundiedom, it becomes what it takes to be romantic. 

Then there's outside social expectations, which fundies, despite their efforts, aren't immune from. It's taken a long time to start to move away from diamond rings in society-at-large, so I imagine it's the same in fundiedom. Most people in my circle still get a diamond ring upon engagement, although there are quite a few that go with something different or chose to forgo it all together. It's a classic symbol, and although people are shaking it up more now in terms of engagement rings, it's still considered the go-to. Fundies also tend to be behind the times, just as their nature, so I imagine it'll take quite a few more years for that trend to start to change. The same with red roses--it's a classic flower to give a partner, even if it is tired and boring. I'll admit my current boyfriend sent me red roses for my birthday, and I loved them. 

I totally agree with everything you said and this is why Michael and Elizabeth Staddon’s engagement was so surprising. He just proposed to her while they were doing chores in the barn. He didn’t have a ring or a plan. It was just spur of the moment! Which is completely unacceptable in fundie land. When it comes to courtship, romance, marriage, and love, it’s all to be very planned out. You have to follow all the rules. Then you must fervently pray about all of it before you make any decisions. Michael just up and proposed out of nowhere. He had to tie a string on her finger instead of a ring. They were in their work clothes. And you know what? Good for them. They are in their mid to late 30s and jumping through all those stupid hoops meant for impulsive children (late teens) is ridiculous for people their age. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[ViolaSebastian]

32 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I totally agree with everything you said and this is why Michael and Elizabeth Staddon’s engagement was so surprising. He just proposed to her while they were doing chores in the barn. He didn’t have a ring or a plan. It was just spr of the moment! Which is completely unacceptable in fundie land. When it comes to courtship, romance, marriage, and love, it’s all to be very planned out. You have to follow all the rules. Then you must fervently pray about all of it before you make any decisions. Michael just up and proposed out of nowhere. He had to tie a string on her finger instead of a ring. They were in their work clothes. And you know what? Good for them. They are in their mid to late 30s and jumping through all those stupid hoops meant for impulsive children (late teens) is ridiculous for people their age. 

In all honesty, this is WAY more romantic a scenario to me than the red roses, diamond ring, Bible set up. But I'm also a pretty introverted and private person in my real life, so having it happen with just the two of them is preferable to me.

56 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

My practice husband gave me a cocktail ring with my birthstones and diamonds in it for my engagement ring. Green is my favorite color.. and my birthstone is green. I had it made into a stickpin after my disastrous first marriage, but I still love the set!

My grandmother left me a diamond ring, so that was my engagement ring for my first marriage. I also had a diamond band, which I pawned after the divorce and purchased a shitload of booze with the proceeds and threw a big, blow-out party. 

If I ever do it again (we'll see, haha), I just want a plainish sapphire and diamond band, which are the colors of my alma mater. I'm left handed, so having a big ring on my left hand is really irritating when I'm writing and doing chores. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Another thought—in some cases, these kids barely know each other. How do you pick out a gift for someone you barely know? You go generic. I think that may play a role, too. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Another thought—in some cases, these kids barely know each other. How do you pick out a gift for someone you barely know? You go generic. I think that may play a role, too. 

Remember when Nurie’s first beau sent her a basket of everything purple? Who knows if she even liked anything in the basket. He just knew that her favorite color was purple so he sent her a bunch of purple stuff. I bet that’s how a lot of these guys are. They know her favorite color and maybe a favorite food/drink and they run with it. 

[catlady]

49 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They know ... maybe a favorite food/drink and they run with it. 

Like Arby’s?  

(I’ll be in the prayer closet....)

[ViolaSebastian]

28 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Remember when Nurie’s first beau sent her a basket of everything purple? Who knows if she even liked anything in the basket. He just knew that her favorite color was purple so he sent her a bunch of purple stuff. I bet that’s how a lot of these guys are. They know her favorite color and maybe a favorite food/drink and they run with it. 

And to be fair, I think this was one of the more original courtship gifts we’ve seen. 

[NancyDrewFan1989]

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I totally agree with everything you said and this is why Michael and Elizabeth Staddon’s engagement was so surprising. He just proposed to her while they were doing chores in the barn. He didn’t have a ring or a plan. It was just spur of the moment! Which is completely unacceptable in fundie land. When it comes to courtship, romance, marriage, and love, it’s all to be very planned out. You have to follow all the rules. Then you must fervently pray about all of it before you make any decisions. Michael just up and proposed out of nowhere. He had to tie a string on her finger instead of a ring. They were in their work clothes. And you know what? Good for them. They are in their mid to late 30s and jumping through all those stupid hoops meant for impulsive children (late teens) is ridiculous for people their age. 

That is the one thing that I liked about Michael and Elizabeth Staddon's engagement story. Many people snarked on them, but (call me crazy) I actually liked their engagement photos done in the barn because they weren't all dressed up and staged awkwardly like the other fundie engagement photos. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

FEW conference this weekend with the Neelys in attendance. Who wants to bet there is at least one picture taken of the three newly engaged couples.