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Lori Alexander 72: Lori Quit Church?


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8 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Who knows? If more people were afraid of Hell they might not abuse their wives or children or do other sick things (looking at Josh Duggar).

I don't think that the believing of being punished in hell after death makes better people. A lack of empathy and a large dose of entitlement makes these men abuse their wives and children. The believe in heaven and hell is centuries old and was mostly used against most people and their empowerment by the powerfull and wealthy. I don't believe in heaven or hell after death, but I don't abuse other living beings and live by the motto of threating other people like I want to be threated. The believe of being punished afte death don't make a bad person good and I find it scary that another person is just behaving slithly decent for fear of hell and without that fear they would be violent.

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14 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Ah yes the old school hell, fire and brimstone preaching.

A church I used to attend years ago was big on showing teens these "Thief in the Night" rapture movies which scared the heebie jeebies out of me.  There was a lot of "fear based" conversion tactics going on back then...nothing about God's love, redemption, etc.  All 'You are going to hell" all the time. 

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4 hours ago, SongRed7 said:

A church I used to attend years ago was big on showing teens these "Thief in the Night" rapture movies which scared the heebie jeebies out of me.  There was a lot of "fear based" conversion tactics going on back then...nothing about God's love, redemption, etc.  All 'You are going to hell" all the time. 

I am constantly surprised by people claiming to be "biblical christians" who use fear tactics to manipulate people.  The most repeated command in the Bible is "Do not be afraid" (not including the variant of "Fear not" - which even makes it more frequent.  The God of the Bible says that "there is no fear in love; perfect love casts out all fear" and "by this all men will know you are my disciples, by your love for one another".  So such rampant use of fear seems exactly the opposite of the preferred approach by the God of the Bible. . . and makes me wonder if the people who use them constantly (looking at you specifically, Lori) even know Him, His grace, His son, His Spirit and His redemption.

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19 minutes ago, AuntKrazy said:

I am constantly surprised by people claiming to be "biblical christians" who use fear tactics to manipulate people.  The most repeated command in the Bible is "Do not be afraid" (not including the variant of "Fear not" - which even makes it more frequent.  The God of the Bible says that "there is no fear in love; perfect love casts out all fear" and "by this all men will know you are my disciples, by your love for one another".  So such rampant use of fear seems exactly the opposite of the preferred approach by the God of the Bible. . . and makes me wonder if the people who use them constantly (looking at you specifically, Lori) even know Him, His grace, His son, His Spirit and His redemption.

This makes me think of a song I love at church - Be not afraid -

here is a recording - it isn't the greatest recording, since it is the church singing it but this is how it sounds when a church sings it and I think it is beautiful - 

 

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Latest video is really grasping at straws.   Lori thinks if she just repeats over and over again "No, women aren't called to preach" it makes it so.   And not to harp on her looks, but wow!  She is looking worse by the day. 

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I agree! 

On 10/28/2019 at 6:51 PM, ladyicantxplain said:

Lori places herself as a mediator between women and God, and husbands as mediators between these women and God. It's no wonder the women who follow her are easily deceived. They don't believe they have access to the Throne of God without an older woman, or some man (husband, pastor, elder, deacon, etc.). 

In his letter to Timothy, Paul also said: " 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people."  

Nobody needs a mediator between him/herself and God. That's why the veil was torn as Jesus died, signifying that we all have direct access to God. We can all walk straight into the holy of holies.  And, as you said, all believers have the Holy Spirit. Do Lori and her friends believe that women have a lesser form of the Holy Spirit that can't help us discern between truth and deception? 

Whether you believe that women can preach or not, please don't tell me that Christian women are more easily deceived or otherwise still not fully redeemed.  The same Paul who said that he didn't permit women to preach or teach also had this to say: " in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

21 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

As far as Lori's divorce post, I don't know of anyone who takes divorce lightly. All of the divorced people I know of tried to make things work.  I'd also like to know where these women are that take the men to the cleaners.  Most single moms I know struggle and are worse off financially than when they were married. 

This is so insulting! Lori has no idea how much suffering usually precedes a divorce. 

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Lori is off her rocker.  She can spin it however she wants, but her platform is full of her and her followers preaching.  Logically her argument doesn't make sense, the preaching she is speaking out against didn't even exist in the Bible so Paul wasn't talking about modern-day churches or preachers.

The Bible didn't even exist back then, but to know that would mean she actualy studied the Bible and that's not going to happen.

I do teach the kids and youth at church about hell.  But, it's mentioned as a place that is opposite of Heaven and only God can decide who goes there, neither the pastors nor I are able to say who specifically goes there or not.  I remember the first time I said Hell, one of the little kids gasped and told me it was a bad word.  So, then I told all the parents when they picked up the kids that I did mention it and assured them it was used as a place and not the bad word way.   We do teach that following Jesus is required to get to Heaven and stress that Jesus=Love and if you have someone who says they are a Christian, but doesn't love then don't believe their teachings.  Our denomination has women, divorced and homosexual pastors.  I can't imagine going to a denomination that doesn't.

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Stephen Colbert, a Catholic who has children and who has taught catechism to kids, describes “hell” and “sin” as things that separate you from God’s love. In Catholic teaching, “sin” consists of a conscious decision to do something you know to be wrong and hurtful to yourself or others.

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1 hour ago, koalawatch said:

I do teach the kids and youth at church about hell.  But, it's mentioned as a place that is opposite of Heaven and only God can decide who goes there

In his book "He Loves Me", former pastor Wayne Jacobsen says that there's not one person in hell whom God doesn't love. He's very strongly against hell as a threat because he says that God has always wanted a relationship with us, not for us to be afraid of him.

I teach Sunday school too and I much prefer to focus on God's love and his desire to have every person come to know Him. 

I think about hell as the ultimate separation from God.

Here are some quotes from the book: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1438408-he-loves-me-the-relationship-god-has-always-wanted-with-you 

Edited by onemama
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I'm coming out of the belief in ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment, aka "Hell"). 

I cannot reconcile a God who tells us to bless those who curse us and pray for those who despitefully use us - a God who says He is love, and says that Love keeps no record of wrongs - condemning anyone at all to "hell" to burn for all eternity.

My studies thus far have been guided by those who are already Universalists (those who believe ALL persons will eventually, though not without judgement (for a time), be reconciled to God. I'm not talking about the denomination of Unitarian Universalism. That is different.

I'm not a Calvinist, and haven't been for years. I've come out of Arminianism. That leaves Universalism of some kind...

I should note that I was invited to church as a child by the neighbors, and shown those awful videos someone spoke about upthread: the ones with the kids getting beheaded for refusing to deny Christ.

Great choice for a kid: head chopped off, or hell.

I was tormented at night, every night, for DECADES after seeing that crap.

God didn't do that. Not the God I now know. He is love.

The mom of the kid I knew who invited me to this shit-show in that church asked me at the end: "Are you saved, honey?"  I just nodded my head, yes, silently. She said, "Good because if you're not we can go upfront and make sure you are."

Hell to the no. I didn't want to be "saved" if that is what it meant.

 

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12 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

I should note that I was invited to church as a child by the neighbors, and shown those awful videos someone spoke about upthread: the ones with the kids getting beheaded for refusing to deny Christ.

Great choice for a kid: head chopped off, or hell.

I was tormented at night, every night, for DECADES after seeing that crap.

That was me, and I had the same reaction and I was 22 when I saw them in a "young persons" Bible study group.  I had nightmares about that one in particular (the head chopping off scene...where teen after teen waited in line for this). I am a believer, but finally at age 55 I can't believe God wants us to come to him that way. 

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My faith took the last train for the coast the day my husband died (apologies to Don McLean). Well, y'all know the story and I just can't reconcile a "loving God" with a 100lb cancer ridden skeleton of a husband (he weighed 98 lbs when he died). All the biblical bullshit people are trying to throw at me to "comfort" me just makes me want to punch people. 

So...I'm not quite atheist now, but I'm sliding down the wall to it. I'm just pissed at the medical malpractice and how he suffered. I can't reconcile that to a "loving God"...why the fuck would you let someone suffer like that if you "love" the human race? 

I have a feeling my Catholic, guilt ridden upbringing is playing a part in that...I was taught that God was just waiting for you to fuck up to punish you...like "oops, you died in a car crash on your way to confession...off to hell with you" sort of shit. 

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13 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

My faith took the last train for the coast the day my husband died (apologies to Don McLean). Well, y'all know the story and I just can't reconcile a "loving God" with a 100lb cancer ridden skeleton of a husband (he weighed 98 lbs when he died). All the biblical bullshit people are trying to throw at me to "comfort" me just makes me want to punch people. 

So...I'm not quite atheist now, but I'm sliding down the wall to it. I'm just pissed at the medical malpractice and how he suffered. I can't reconcile that to a "loving God"...why the fuck would you let someone suffer like that if you "love" the human race? 

I have a feeling my Catholic, guilt ridden upbringing is playing a part in that...I was taught that God was just waiting for you to fuck up to punish you...like "oops, you died in a car crash on your way to confession...off to hell with you" sort of shit. 

What you were taught is not the teaching of the church.  I’m sorry ignorant people destroyed things for you. 

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3 hours ago, ladyicantxplain said:

I'm coming out of the belief in ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment, aka "Hell"). 

I cannot reconcile a God who tells us to bless those who curse us and pray for those who despitefully use us - a God who says He is love, and says that Love keeps no record of wrongs - condemning anyone at all to "hell" to burn for all eternity.

My studies thus far have been guided by those who are already Universalists (those who believe ALL persons will eventually, though not without judgement (for a time), be reconciled to God. I'm not talking about the denomination of Unitarian Universalism. That is different.

I'm not a Calvinist, and haven't been for years. I've come out of Arminianism. That leaves Universalism of some kind...

I should note that I was invited to church as a child by the neighbors, and shown those awful videos someone spoke about upthread: the ones with the kids getting beheaded for refusing to deny Christ.

Great choice for a kid: head chopped off, or hell.

I was tormented at night, every night, for DECADES after seeing that crap.

God didn't do that. Not the God I now know. He is love.

The mom of the kid I knew who invited me to this shit-show in that church asked me at the end: "Are you saved, honey?"  I just nodded my head, yes, silently. She said, "Good because if you're not we can go upfront and make sure you are."

Hell to the no. I didn't want to be "saved" if that is what it meant.

 

I myself have come to be convinced by the doctrine of universal reconciliation   .  For one thing , I believe that it is the view that is most in keeping with the original Jewish understanding of hell .  https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1594422/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-Hell.htm    And in addition , as I have mentioned elsewhere , I have been troubled by the doctrine of entire sanctification  , and the related doctrine of conditional security  , as I grew up in various Holiness churches  .  When I was a young teen I felt rather uneasy in my relationship with God , as I was in ongoing fear of falling away , and subsequently loosing my prior state of saving grace .  I had even gone through a period of agnostic atheism   , motivated in part by my wanting to reject God , rather than continuing to be afraid of Him rejecting me , for not being perfectly good enough to remain in His good graces .  Now of days though , for various personal reasons , by faith ,  I tend to lean more in the direction of religious naturalism  , and am even interested in Unitarianism  .  But point of view on religion has admittedly been in a continuous state of flux , throughout my entire adult life .  

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So I've made it like 2 mins. into her kazillionth diatribe about how she's totally NOT a preacher because she hasn't knocked on her neighbor's door and demanded they repent.  :my_confused:

I don't know if she's just having a complete come-apart, but like I said, only 2 mins. in, and so far we have:

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But everything is TOTALLY fine in Lori Land.  A-Okay.  

 

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Edited by Koala
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2 hours ago, feministxtian said:

My faith took the last train for the coast the day my husband died (apologies to Don McLean). Well, y'all know the story and I just can't reconcile a "loving God" with a 100lb cancer ridden skeleton of a husband (he weighed 98 lbs when he died). All the biblical bullshit people are trying to throw at me to "comfort" me just makes me want to punch people. 

So...I'm not quite atheist now, but I'm sliding down the wall to it. I'm just pissed at the medical malpractice and how he suffered. I can't reconcile that to a "loving God"...why the fuck would you let someone suffer like that if you "love" the human race? 

I have a feeling my Catholic, guilt ridden upbringing is playing a part in that...I was taught that God was just waiting for you to fuck up to punish you...like "oops, you died in a car crash on your way to confession...off to hell with you" sort of shit. 

I was well on my way to atheism before Mr Oy died and his death pretty much solidified my belief that God never existed, and if God did once exist they are now dead.

I do, however, believe in the strength of community and the goodness of people, both as individuals and as groups united with a purpose.  So I attend services, oddly more regularly now than before Mr Oy died.  A very strange thing.  Whatever choices you make, wherever you go, I hope you are able to find acceptance and purpose.

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Favorite comment:  

"I wouldn't preach to the lady in the supermarket.  I wouldn't preach to my friends.  Most people don't want to be preached at."

Really, Lori?  REALLY?  

She also says that it's very clear in God's word that preaching involves, "standing up, loud voice, and...saying emphatically, preaching the word of God-repent like Jesus, John the Bap...Baptist, the disciples, and the elders, the preachers in the churches, or in arenas when they're preaching- pre...and women are preaching.  They haven't been called to preach.  In fact, Michael Pearl calls them women screechers.  They don't have that low, loud, physical voice that men were given to preach.  Women are disobeying God." <---Nope, that's not a typo.  That's the word salad that Lori just vomited all over YouTube.  I can't figure out WHAT THE EVERLASTING HELL she was trying to say, but there it is.

She continues:

"I don't stand up anywhere *dumb laugh* and say *shakes fists* "Women, you MUST be keepers at home!"

That's just...a lie.  A flat out lie.  A lie's lie.  The lie to beat ALL lies.  

"I don't even teach in our churches."

? Riiiiighhht!  Not for lack of trying, huh Lori? 

Seriously, does she think we don't remember the fact that she was BANNED from teaching in at least 2 local churches.  It's not that she doesn't do it because she feels it violates scripture.  She doesn't do it because they told her to keep her loud yap shut!

 

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In her IG stories, Alyssa listed things that were helping her feel better with a newborn in the house. Sleep training made the list. Her baby is eight weeks old and is sleeping nine hours at night because he has been trained to do so.  

So. I’m just going to say it. 

I can’t believe that after Alyssa waited seven years for a baby, she has followed the teachings of her horrid mother and lets that baby cry himself to sleep when he is just weeks old.  Lori must be giddy. 

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Her eyes speak volumes to her mental instability.  I can't watch the video because I'll probably have chest pain.

 

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So, Lori is like 60, right? My 70-something mother-in-law looks younger than she does. Girlfriend looks ROUGH!

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This must be how Lori looks when she tells her grandkids that snakes will bite them when they complain, or when she hears that one of them was force fed or denied food, or when a newborn is left to cry himself to sleep. 

Shame on her kids for leaving those children with her. 

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49 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

In her IG stories, Alyssa listed things that were helping her feel better with a newborn in the house. Sleep training made the list. Her baby is eight weeks old and is sleeping nine hours at night because he has been trained to do so.  

So. I’m just going to say it. 

I can’t believe that after Alyssa waited seven years for a baby, she has followed the teachings of her horrid mother and lets that baby cry himself to sleep when he is just weeks old.  Lori must be giddy. 

This breaks my heart. I cannot fathom letting my baby cry itself to sleep. And neither would DH. I used to babysit when I was in high school/early college, and I didn’t let those little ones cry themselves to sleep. 
i guess my perception is different. Yes- I like sleep- but those nightly routines of rocking to sleep and midnight feeding/soothing come to an end so quickly. And while we had routines, it wasn’t about us. It was about what each of our kiddos needed at the time. 
I think it paid off. We have two intelligent, confident, kind, empathetic, and independent kids. 
I’ll add- I took 12 weeks with each kid but DH only got a week. He still would get up in the middle of the night to do diaper changes and feedings. 

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Boo Alyssa! I can’t believe that she’s sleep training a 2 month old. Does that mean she doesn’t change his diaper, if he takes a poop in the middle of the night? 
 

Yea Lori is/has been looking rough the past few years.  I get that skin sags and wrinkles happen as we age, but damn, Lori looks like she’s wasting away. At least she combed her hair for her latest nonsensical video. 

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@Frog99, it breaks my heart, too.   One of the major reasons I left Lori's teachings and especially the infamous ALCR was because of her ideas regarding breastfeeding, child "training", whipping children, etc.  I realize we've discussed it all here prior, so no need to get into it.

I couldn't reconcile this once we had little ones with special needs. My son had a heart defect: serious. A large, transitional AV canal defect (for those CHD heart nerds out there). Until he was seven months old, he slept with a heart rate and apnea monitor. This is because he tried to DIE in my foyer, and I had to give him CPR at three weeks old. We insisted on the monitor at his second homecoming from the ICU. Never, ever in a million years would I have left him alone to "cry it out"...

After that thing came off post-op, I slept next to him. I wanted to hear him breathing. He was tube fed every three to four hours, round the clock. By hand. No pump. I pumped breastmilk every three to four hours while pushing syringes into the g-tube. I did this for seven months, and then it slowed to every five or six hours. When he was fourteen months old, I gave birth to his baby sister. And it started all over again, only with her, because she was critically ill at birth with pulmonary hypertension. Tube fed. Round the clock. I was spared the serious heart defect with her.

Lori is too comfortable.

When people are too comfortable, they have no idea what the mother of two critically ill babies thinks about sleep training or whipping nine-month-olds. My son is six, and he has cognitive delays, and he has no concept of "pain being an excellent teacher", as Lori would say, thank God. If I spanked him, he would be terribly confused. He doesn't know danger. I am his advocate. And his sister's advocate. I breastfeed with my bare chest open because he was too weak to latch without optimal conditions (breathing had to be clear, no blankets, no wraps, etc.). I co-slept with him so I could silence the deafening apnea/heart-rate alarm when it went off at night. Lori has no compass for this. She's too insulated. She's never helped a young mother like this. 

I've seen the advice Lori has given to mothers of children with special needs or different abilities. It is abhorrent.

I continue to pray her blog taken down and her chat room shuts down until she changes her message and her mind.

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