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SinkDweller

I'm not checking in on this on the regular and am not watching the show. Here's what I can tell you from what I know. I want to defend Kim's mom. She did struggle with alcohol addiction. She did put Kim in unsafe situations and didn't protect her properly. She also got sober and worked her program. Kim is living in the house that her mom built with her then husband. To Kim's credit, she helped care for her mom when Ethan was tiny and her mom was dying of breast cancer. Then her mom's husband became sick and Kim cared for her him while having two more kids and breaking her ankle. When her stepdad died she and Barry took over the farm, which was supposed to be a working garlic farm. They've put additions on the house and also moved a mobile home there and I think did some additions to an outbuilding? I don't know but the original house was built by her mother. She had some odd people living in the mobile home at some point but she kinda runs through relationships so there was a falling out of some kind. I've always been curious, too, about her willingness to allow strangers to be around her kids as long as they were "good Christians."

She was very good friends to the Mortons and their blog post is how I found out something had happened to Joshua (they sorta live blogged it?) and then heard the details after she contacted this side of the family. I think that the relationship fell apart when she was so depressed after Joshua died since she quit appearing on their blog then. They lived a little less than an hour apart so it'd be easy to lose sight of each other if both sides aren't making an effort. I remember how excited Kim was to meet them because she knew her beliefs were weird enough to set her apart from mainstream Christians. There was a time when Kim did head coverings and only long dresses and no make up but she dips in and out of her beliefs, always hardcore and rigid. I was surprised to see her singing in churches since there was a time that she was ADAMANTLY anti-organized church and only homechurch was "real" church. 

Barry spoke at one of the Vision Forums get togethers, something about the dangers of secular humanism. I also remember catching sight of them at one of the Calathora Balls, just a few pics with them there.

No one is surprised that Moriah and Micah are the ones breaking out (so far). They have always been very close. It sounds like Moriah is moving back to Barry's family. They are regular old Christians and I've always wondered what they think of Kim. 

I met Kim briefly before she was married (she was engaged) but wouldn't go to the house where she was staying when she came with Barry and the kids but I didn't want my kids around her. Bad influences and all (and frankly I couldn't stand to think how shitty Kim would be towards me and my heathen children). My husband went and mostly had stories about the family's food weirdness.

I'm sharing an old pic of the kids; they have always been gorgeous.

None of us understand why she is doing the show and again, she didn't tell this side of the family (her side of the family -- this side is all the maternal side she has, not sure about her dad but he has since died, too). I found out on here and told them (they know I'm on here and I guess she might, too, because I always assume people are reading about themselves if they're this exhibitionist). Maybe Barry's family knew. But she doesn't need the money. After all, they're not paying for college and Barry makes good money and they're frugal as hell. I can only think it's evangelical, which makes me wonder how they feel about the spin of it being family DISunity since you can watch their documentary to see the smugness there.

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Heck. My kids don’t know who the president is and that’s fine by me.  

Hell, I wish I didn't know who the president is!

How fucking sad is it that we live in a world where we have to shield children from the president. I completely understand why people do it; I'm not insulting the fact that you have to, just that damn

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JermajestyDuggar

Remember Olivia and Ethan had a very long engagement. It was about a year. That’s very long in fundie land. I’m imagining that Kim may have agreed to the relationship at first, because she came from a good fundie family. But then realized too late that Olivia was becoming much more worldly and liberal and it was too late by then. Ethan had likely already fallen in love.

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BernRul
3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Remember Olivia and Ethan had a very long engagement. It was about a year. That’s very long in fundie land. I’m imagining that Kim may have agreed to the relationship at first, because she came from a good fundie family. But then realized too late that Olivia was becoming much more worldly and liberal and it was too late by then. Ethan had likely already fallen in love.

I think on the show, Olivia says that Kim repeatedly told Ethan to break up with her.

That's got to hurt. 

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JermajestyDuggar
2 minutes ago, BernRul said:

I think on the show, Olivia says that Kim repeatedly told Ethan to break up with her.

That's got to hurt. 

Thanks. I don’t have cable so I’ve only read recaps. And I follow their social media.

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JanasTattooParlor

I just started watching the show today and while it does seem a little boring, I’m definitely going to keep watching it because I’m intrigued to see how the parents handle Moriah and Micah breaking away over the course of the season. Especially considering it looks like Moriah is now moved out. 

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neuroticcat

So I’m just watching the first episode now. I find the whole no-sugar thing confusing. They are talking about it while baking with CUPS of honey. Honey still totally jacks up your blood sugar/insulin response. Weird to think it is “healthier.” 

 

Also...why is no soda a virtue??? These seem like strange goals even for fundies... 🤔

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JermajestyDuggar
1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

So I’m just watching the first episode now. I find the whole no-sugar thing confusing. They are talking about it while baking with CUPS of honey. Honey still totally jacks up your blood sugar/insulin response. Weird to think it is “healthier.” 

 

Also...why is no soda a virtue??? These seem like strange goals even for fundies... 🤔

Kim is a “naturopathic doctor.” I’m guessing none of her beliefs about health are backed by any kind of science. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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Natalie22
4 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

So I’m just watching the first episode now. I find the whole no-sugar thing confusing. They are talking about it while baking with CUPS of honey. Honey still totally jacks up your blood sugar/insulin response. Weird to think it is “healthier.” 

 

Also...why is no soda a virtue??? These seem like strange goals even for fundies... 🤔

I'm guessing because honey is "natural" and less processed than other sugars.  It's one of those things where there are benefits to limiting the amount of sugar you are consuming, but by having an absolute ban on any processed sugar you make it a temptation and don't show your children how to moderate their consumption.

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SinkDweller
22 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

 

@SinkDweller, I creeped back through your posts after I saw that you had been friends with Kim and noticed an old comment about your friend whose kids didn't have social security numbers-- was that her? If so, is it still the case?

Not friends, related by marriage. We talked everyday for awhile after her mom died; I think she was very lonely and bored. I've since found out that she did the same thing when one of her other cousins married, talking to his wife everyday for awhile. 

I think Ethan was born in a hospital but am not positive. The rest were, I believe, homebirths (I have no idea if there were any emergency transports) and at least one was delivered by Barry because the midwife didn't get there soon enough. When I was talking to her she was saying she wished they'd never been legally married because the government has no place in her marriage and that she was not getting documentation for the kids but the government had no business knowing they existed. But I've always wondered how Joshua's death may have changed things (assuming she did actually not get social security cards for the kids and given there was a midwife, the midwife has to document the births even if the parents don't so I believe there at last birth certificates). Anyway, all accidental deaths of children are investigated so Joshua's was, too, which  means they had some CPS involvement (they were cleared, it was clearly an accident) so it may be if they didn't have paperwork before perhaps they did after. Someone on here mentions Moriah talks about getting her birth certificate so at least she has that. 

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neuroticcat
17 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

I'm guessing because honey is "natural" and less processed than other sugars.  It's one of those things where there are benefits to limiting the amount of sugar you are consuming, but by having an absolute ban on any processed sugar you make it a temptation and don't show your children how to moderate their consumption.

I’m with you. It just seems a strange thing to be proud of: no refined sugar cane but tons of refined honey from Sams Club...

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neuroticcat
22 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

I'm guessing because honey is "natural" and less processed than other sugars.  It's one of those things where there are benefits to limiting the amount of sugar you are consuming, but by having an absolute ban on any processed sugar you make it a temptation and don't show your children how to moderate their consumption.

And I agree that this concept of no moderation is huge with all kinds of over-sheltering. For example, the oldest son’s drinking. I get experimenting, but with a family history of alcoholism, introducing moderation and modeling social drinking would have been so much more helpful long term than banning alcohol and now leaving kids who may be genetically prone to addiction to go all in.

I also never get the fundie surprise when the older kids finally gain independence a bit and introduce “outside” ideas to the younger kids. What do they think is going to happen long term? All the kids will stay on the compound like a commune? Why is teaching how-to-cook seen as responsibility but they ignore independent thought or tools to actually become functional adults? It seems so often fundies overthink the small things...no sugar! No pop! No jeans! But don’t give thought to their long term parenting goals...that must be a rude awakening.

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On 11/4/2019 at 11:56 AM, HarryPotterFan said:

I know this is probably the wrong takeaway from all this, but what happened with Ethan seeing nipples?

He saw some strapless bras,I think that are worn so your nipples don't show.

He thought it was a nursing bra.Then asked if it was something naughty,then said he'd like to see,Olivia,with those.

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Four is Enough

I saw the first episode of this show. Kim is a complete controlling bitch. Her husband isn't very bright,or else he is trying to explain her to the world.I get the idea he goes along with her ideas.

That oldest boy? Creepazoid! Is he really that naive?

I hope Moriah gets clear away..

Dunno if I'm going to watch another episode or not..

On 10/17/2019 at 9:08 AM, redsmomma29 said:

I worked with a Naturopath once, . This guy would introduce himself a "Hi, I'm Dr. Woo Woo." To everyone, including colleagues and random people.

Mr.Four is a REAL physician. We have the diploma and medical school tuition receipts to prove it. He NEVER introduces  himself as "Dr."  He's very secure in his own skin.. and doesn't need to prove it to anyone.

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JermajestyDuggar

I’m wondering if this show was more of Olivia, Ethan, Micah, and Moriah agreeing to it first. Then they basically said to Kim and Barry, “we are doing this show and if you want to explain your side of it, you can be on the show too.” They May have felt they had no choice but to explain themselves. Thinking they would come off better than they actually did. 

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On 11/16/2019 at 10:45 AM, Natalie22 said:

I found this video that summarizes Olivia's background and how things happened before the show.  I know people have brought up the video she was part of when she was still living at home, but it sounds like her perspective has changed drastically since. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD6jjr6-Glk

 

Thank you! This video lifts the lid off Kim's lies and answers a lot of questions that are being asked here. I highly recommend it! 

Edited by fluffy
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JermajestyDuggar

It makes ZERO sense to me that Kim approached Olivia and Ethan to do the show. She had to know that Olivia would spill all the tea on the family. Is Kim so obsessed with fame and money that she would pursue this show knowing she and her family would look bad? I just don’t understand at all. 

And it’s so sad that all of Olivia’s siblings are out of the quiverful except for Elijah. His wife seems like such a sweet person and hate for her to be trapped in that world. Plus they already have two daughters. Maybe aunt Olivia can be a positive influence in their lives ;)

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Marmion
On 11/16/2019 at 5:59 PM, neuroticcat said:

So I’m just watching the firJUB episode now. I find the whole no-sugar thing confusing. They are talking about it while baking with CUPS of honey. Honey still totally jacks up your blood sugar/insulin response. Weird to think it is “healthier.” 

 

Also...why is no soda a virtue??? These seem like strange goals even for fundies... 🤔

In addition to what others have mentioned , honey is specifically mentioned in the Bible , so it would be contrary to scripture if honey were to be outright banned for being a sweetener , the way that processed sugar might be .  So it is permissible to enjoy honey , and other whole organic sugars , in moderation .  For example , 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+24%3A13&version=JUB  ,  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+25%3A16&version=JUB , https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverbs+25%3A27&version=JUB , https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverbs+27%3A7&version=JUB , 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm+81%3A16&version=JUB  ,  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+7+%3A+14-15&version=JUB  , https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+1%3A6&version=JUB   , https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekial+16%3A13&version=JUB  

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Grimalkin
On 11/17/2019 at 4:58 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It makes ZERO sense to me that Kim approached Olivia and Ethan to do the show. She had to know that Olivia would spill all the tea on the family. Is Kim so obsessed with fame and money that she would pursue this show knowing she and her family would look bad? I just don’t understand at all. 

And it’s so sad that all of Olivia’s siblings are out of the quiverful except for Elijah. His wife seems like such a sweet person and hate for her to be trapped in that world. Plus they already have two daughters. Maybe aunt Olivia can be a positive influence in their lives ;)

       I think Kim thought she would come off looking like an angel and Olivia would look like a monster who ruined her family. They keep taking shots at her by calling her bitter and angry. They said things like Ethan used to be nice, like she did something to him. Lots of passive aggressive comments towards her. They are delusional.

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BlessingsVonFundiePants

Deconstructing fundie malignant narcissists is my favourite hobby. This show is filling a gap in my life that’s been their since Erika Shupe stopped her blog. I hope these kids invest their TLC money, they’re going to need it to pay for the therapy.

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BernRul

This is so much more entertaining than Counting On (which is not saying much at all).

Ethan's growing on me. His naivete seemd creepy at first, but now I think he's sweet and free spirited.

But not letting the kids see Ethan and Olivia alone wtf. Kim keeps implying that Olivia is the one tearing the family apart and that their were no problems before her...while the kids admit that they always did things behind their mom's back. 

I feel so bad for the kids. 

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JermajestyDuggar

I imagine Ethan has changed a lot in his first year of marriage. I’m actually kind of scared that these two could end up growing apart as they explore themselves and change over time. What if they become two very different people with two very different future goals?

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On 11/6/2019 at 12:41 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I love Jack McBrayer. It amazes me he is my husband’s age. He always seems so much younger because he plays naive so well. 

I read through all the comments before I watched the two episodes. Ethan seems like a character based on Kenneth from 30 Rock. Since Ethan enjoys Friends, it would be interesting to see what he would think about the comparison of himself to Kenneth if he watched 30 Rock.

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JanasTattooParlor

I watched the third episode tonight and I agree that it is WAY better than Counting On it BUB. I like getting to see fundie kids rebelling while the parents are away and that they are supporting each other through it. It hurt my heart to watch Lydia cry at the end though because she seems like the textbook perfect fundie daughter and I can’t imagine how hard it is to see everything you’ve ever been taught crumble around you. Mariah and Micah were so kind in talking to her and discussing their differences in perspective of the Olivia and Ethan vs. their parents situation. I agree with @BernRul that Kim continuing to talk bad of Olivia and not trusting her own son to be around his siblings just makes them look horrible and shows that she’s really the one creating the rift. While talking to Lydia, Mariah said that she thinks it’s a control thing for her parents and it makes me so glad to see that she sees that and is making sure her siblings see that as well. 

Edited by JanasTattooParlor
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CarrotCake

I am now watching the third episode and I am wondering: do they practice the courtship model? And does it also include chaperoned dates and no kissing until marriage?

 

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