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Katie and Travis: Will It Last?


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4 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I've heard this before (and that it's incredibly difficult to buy in some European countries like Switzerland). Is it a big deal when people do buy a house? Like a large housewarming? And is there a focus on paying off your mortgage?

In my experience, it's definitely a very big deal when people buy or build a house. Building is also much more common in Germany than here in the US since people don't often sell their houses - most just get passed down in families. Because mortgages lower the income tax you owe, many people are in no particular rush to pay them off.

Home ownership rates are also much lower than in the US, especially, I think, in our generation. I'm in my early 30s and literally zero of my friends in Germany own a home. I imagine most won't until and unless they inherit one.

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Maybe its where I live in the US (Los Angeles area), but home ownership is a BIG DEAL to me and my friends. It is extremely difficult and rare to own, and when a peer buys a house its a big deal. As a millenial, the housing market has been a very difficult mountain to climb, one that very few have actually succeeded in. To see this gen z kid with a house, even in a more affordable area, is pretty unheard of for those who don't have generational wealth.

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7 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I've heard this before (and that it's incredibly difficult to buy in some European countries like Switzerland). Is it a big deal when people do buy a house? Like a large housewarming? And is there a focus on paying off your mortgage?

While it is a very big deal, big housewarming parties are not so much anymore? Or maybe that’s just my experience? Probably because you have lived in several other properties for rent before. I know there is almost always a housewarming when you move out the first time (often flat sharing community) or rent your first place by yourself. If you build or buy new (mostly in your 30s) there is more of a party than if you buy an existing property. And age might come into it too? 

Paying off your mortgage isn’t a focus in the way that people bend themselves over backwards to save up for extra payments. You generally only get a mortgage if the bank feels secure you can pay the monthly rate. So in normal circumstances, you can pay for your home (on average 15+ years) and live your life. Most (not all) people plan on living in their home till it’s time for a care home. Of course circumstances change and you won’t for whatever reason, but that is still the dominant mindset. House flipping is not common. Buying a house or plot (getting a mortgage, bureaucracy) is often a lengthy process. About 6-12 months. 
Obviously there are always exceptions but that seems to the average.

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8 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I've heard this before (and that it's incredibly difficult to buy in some European countries like Switzerland). Is it a big deal when people do buy a house? Like a large housewarming? And is there a focus on paying off your mortgage?

Yes, in Germany buying a house is a big, once-in-a-lifetime thing for most people, and the market is tight in and around cities, and is getting worse even in smallish cities. People often take several years to find a house to buy. Prices have been skyrocketing over the past 6-7 years, and in some areas, prices for houses or apartments have doubled since then.

Typically, you have about 5-10% of ancillary/closing costs on top of the price of the house, and most banks expect that as a minimum amount for buyers to have saved up. If a house costs 500,000 EUR (~550000US$ maybe?), this means you need as a minimum savings of 25,000-50,000, and haven’t even paid a cent towards the actual purchase price. That’s probably one of the reasons “starter homes” don’t make sense in Germany - that’s money you won’t recoup when selling again.

Also, the building quality is much higher in Germany, and therefore more expensive (the climate isn’t made for the type of houses often built in the US, and there are more regulatory/safety//environmental requirements).. 

And yes, the aim is usually to pay off the mortgage entirely. Banks are only permitted to give out loans which, taking into account both people’s household income and retirement age, would enable them to pay off the house before retiring. 
 

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On 2/13/2021 at 3:28 PM, irish_dancing_canadian said:

I definitely think Travis’s parents purchased the house. I wonder how Katie will adjust to life in New Jersey. 

I think they’ll be married by the end of this year. Don’t think Katie can wait much longer. 

I don't think Kelly Jo can wait any longer either.

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9 hours ago, JillyO said:

Building is also much more common in Germany than here in the US since people don't often sell their houses - most just get passed down in families. Because mortgages lower the income tax you owe, many people are in no particular rush to pay them off.

I think building just depends on where you live in US...it’s definitely not happening in LA, Orlando, or NYC, but buying land (usually several acres) and building a gorgeous “forever” home is pretty common in the south and some parts of the midwest.

 

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9 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I think building just depends on where you live in US...it’s definitely not happening in LA, Orlando, or NYC, but buying land (usually several acres) and building a gorgeous “forever” home is pretty common in the south and some parts of the midwest.

 

Maybe not within the city limits of Orlando, but the greater Orlando area is definitely booming in terms of new construction. I live a few hours from Orlando, and the entire drive from here to there is new neighborhood after new neighborhood. The builder we used also builds in Orlando, and they have more than 10 new neighborhoods under construction in the Orlando market. 

 

New building in Florida right now is insane. My neighborhood is still under construction, and every time they release a new set of lots, they're completely gone within a few days (usually 50-60 lots at a time). We're trying to figure out where all these people are moving from, because within a 10 mile radius of my house, there are thousands of new homes either under construction or approved and in the planning stages. 

6 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Also, the building quality is much higher in Germany, and therefore more expensive (the climate isn’t made for the type of houses often built in the US, and there are more regulatory/safety//environmental requirements).. 

Building quality/materials/regulations vary greatly across the US. Where I live, houses are built of concrete block and with very strict building codes due to hurricanes. My house is required to withstand debris travelling at 120 MPH, and I don't live near the coast. In areas near the coast, the requirements can go up to 150 mph. But in other parts of the country, wood frame houses are fine because they don't have the same threat of severe weather. 

 It also depends on the builder. Using a "mass market" builder who pumps out a lot of houses quickly is going to be cheaper, but they won't use as high quality materials. Whereas a custom builder is more likely to use high-end materials, but it will cost a lot more. 

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I'm also building just outside Orlando and new communities are popping up like crazy. There are waitlists for communities' new phases. So many former orange groves that are now becoming cookie cutter neighborhoods. 

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7 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

 

Also, the building quality is much higher in Germany, and therefore more expensive (the climate isn’t made for the type of houses often built in the US, and there are more regulatory/safety//environmental requirements).. 

 

I agree that building quality is probably higher in Germany, but the US is a big country and doesn't have one climate  --and environmental requirements can differ by state. For example, buildings in California may have extra earthquake requirements that most of the rest of the US does not have.  In terms of climate, houses are going to be built differently in South Florida vs. Minnesota vs. Utah vs. coastal Delaware.

PS I tried to find Travis's recently purchased house on ZIllow, but no luck yet. I looked at recently sold homes in Camden County, NJ, under 200K

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1 hour ago, OHFL2009 said:

Maybe not within the city limits of Orlando, but the greater Orlando area is definitely booming in terms of new construction. I live a few hours from Orlando, and the entire drive from here to there is new neighborhood after new neighborhood. The builder we used also builds in Orlando, and they have more than 10 new neighborhoods under construction in the Orlando market. 

 

New building in Florida right now is insane. My neighborhood is still under construction, and every time they release a new set of lots, they're completely gone within a few days (usually 50-60 lots at a time). We're trying to figure out where all these people are moving from, because within a 10 mile radius of my house, there are thousands of new homes either under construction or approved and in the planning stages. 

Building quality/materials/regulations vary greatly across the US. Where I live, houses are built of concrete block and with very strict building codes due to hurricanes. My house is required to withstand debris travelling at 120 MPH, and I don't live near the coast. In areas near the coast, the requirements can go up to 150 mph. But in other parts of the country, wood frame houses are fine because they don't have the same threat of severe weather. 

 It also depends on the builder. Using a "mass market" builder who pumps out a lot of houses quickly is going to be cheaper, but they won't use as high quality materials. Whereas a custom builder is more likely to use high-end materials, but it will cost a lot more. 

Sorry...Orlando wasn’t a good example, I was just thinking of big cities that didn’t have acres and acres of land outside of neighborhoods that people could buy and build on. I know all new neighborhoods are getting built out quickly, but I was thinking less of buying a lot in a neighborhood and building on it, and more of all the families I know in the south (who live in small towns at least an hour from a major city) and buy a large plot of undeveloped land, clear it, and custom build huge homes.

I’m thinking a lot of the newcomers to Florida are probably from California. I’ve known at least five life-long California families who’ve left the state in the last few years because they could get so much more house for their money elsewhere. Not sure what the difference in the housing market is, though.

Edited by DalmatianCat
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1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

PS I tried to find Travis's recently purchased house on ZIllow, but no luck yet. I looked at recently sold homes in Camden County, NJ, under 200K

May need to search above $200k. I know that area is more rural, but NJ real estate is no joke.

1 hour ago, DalmatianCat said:

Sorry...Orlando wasn’t a good example, I was just thinking of big cities that didn’t have acres and acres of land outside of neighborhoods that people could buy and build on. I know all new neighborhoods are getting built out quickly, but I was thinking less of buying a lot in a neighborhood and building on it, and more of all the families I know in the south (who live in small towns at least an hour from a major city) and buy a large plot of undeveloped land, clear it, and custom build huge homes.

I’m thinking a lot of the newcomers to Florida are probably from California. I’ve known at least five life-long California families who’ve left the state in the last few years because they could get so much more house for their money elsewhere. Not sure what the difference in the housing market is, though.

I'm from the Northeast, and while I definitely see a decent amount of people from the Tri-state area (NY,NJ,CT), most people I've come across are from the midwest. I've met someone from Hawaii, California, New Hampshire, etc. However, so much Ohio and Michigan! 

**My experience in Central Florida. I'm sure South Florida could be different.**

 

Edited by front hugs > duggs
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3 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I'm from the Northeast, and while I definitely see a decent amount of people from the Tri-state area (NY,NJ,CT), most people I've come across are from the midwest. I've met someone from Hawaii, California, New Hampshire, etc. However, so much Ohio and Michigan! 

**My experience in Central Florida. I'm sure South Florida could be different.**

 

We used to joke that 95 stayed on 95 and 75 stayed on 75, so New England and the Mid-Atlantic people ended up on the Atlantic coast and the Midwesterners and Ontarioians (I made that word up) ended up on the Gulf coast, but I think it's changing a little and it's a little more mixed now. We still have more Midwesterners than anything else, but the number of East Coasters is growing. I don't know anyone from California or the West Coast though. 

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2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I agree that building quality is probably higher in Germany, but the US is a big country and doesn't have one climate  --and environmental requirements can differ by state. For example, buildings in California may have extra earthquake requirements that most of the rest of the US does not have.  In terms of climate, houses are going to be built differently in South Florida vs. Minnesota vs. Utah vs. coastal Delaware.

 

Both you and @OHFL3000 are completely right. I have to apologize. My post was too much of a generalization. I guess that’s something I have to keep reminding myself of whenever I post on FJ - there isn’t such a thing as “the US”, and your mileage may vary greatly depending on geographical location, social and cultural background, personal experience etc. 
 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wood-framed house in Germany though. I think the range of building styles may not be as broad in Germany (maybe because for the most part, the climate doesn’t vary too much across Germany).

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I do NOT want to come off as out of touch or unaware of my privilege, so I'm going to make these parameters very clear.

My husband and I bought a house at ages 25. Here's how we did it, and my thoughts on Travis. 

- We lived at home for one year after college and saved almost all of our first year salary 

- We were both employed with ok benefits 

- Rented below our means in the meantime

- We had minimal college loans that we paid off first 

- We created a 2 year plan and budget to reach our remaining down payment + closing costs goal 

- We put 20% down 

- We bought a home below our means, it's not a new build 

- Our monthly mortgage is WAY cheaper than rent for a 2 bed, 2 bath 

These Bible "colleges" are often cheaper than secular or Jesuit private colleges.  Travis family may have paid for his college or he had minimal loans. This means he only had to save up for a down payment. 20% plus the closing costs may be perfectly feasible if he has been saving up his money his whole life (remember, he probably didn't spend it on rent, partying, spring break, alcohol, a car in college or high school). His parents might have gifted some money to him and Katie since it's traditional for bride's family to pay for wedding, so the groom's family might have given a gift here. Even it was small, it makes a difference. Finally, the area in which he is buying has an average home price of 72k. Camden is known to be "not the nicest area," so it makes sense that home values there are lower than other New Jersey suburbs. However, the housing market is going up there as it is an "up and coming" neighborhood . . . probably a good housing investment if they need a large house down the road. Katie Bates also probably does not have college loans (Crown being cheap + religion not allowing debt + working as hair dresser).

So all in all, it to me it is not surprising he was able to purchase a home. 

 

Edited by kmachete14
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He might of not had college bills, his family owns the college, but regardless of how much money he put down, if he got his mortgage and taxes down to around 1000 a month and if he actually has some sort of job to pay for this, he could possibly pull it off. The house is definitely not new and probably a two bedroom 3 at most, I can't find the listing to see, but it definitely was under 200 grand.

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3 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

Katie Bates also probably does not have college loans (Crown being cheap + religion not allowing debt + working as hair dresser).

Crown doesn't participate in federal loan programs, as it is part of their "values" for students to graduate debt free. On their financial page it lists private loans as a last resort. This is part of their excuse for not becoming SACS accredited, as they claim they would be forced to participate in loan programs. That is false, but the truth doesn't play a big role in fundy-life. 

From reading it, they appear to offer "scholarships" to most students or work study programs. 

Edited by rebeccawriter01
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I am also jealous of Travis owning a home for a price that is significantly cheaper than anything I could hope to buy where I live. My husband and I are in our mid-20s and in the middle of house hunting now and the market is insane! First, there’s nothing even decent for under $250K. Second, there’s no way that despite the fact that I got two degrees loan free, that we will have 20% for any home, which means we’ll have to have private mortgage insurance on any place we buy. Third, the market where I live is so hot that places aren’t even on the market 48 hours before they’ve been sold for over list price. My husband and I looked at a house this weekend that was listed the day before. It already had three offers in, and with the offer we put in, they had TEN total offers and ours wasn’t picked. I hate seeing all these fundies being able to buy houses, but then I have to remind myself that I don’t live in these lower socioeconomic areas where house prices are cheaper and that I love the city I’m in. 

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5 hours ago, artdecades said:

Oh wow I totally missed that his family owned his fundie college

I find that terribly frightening. Those fundie bible colleges produce people like Steve Anderson and David Rodrigues. 

Edited by nelliebelle1197
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Many in my friend group come from privilege and were all able to purchase their houses with 20% down. I almost felt like there was shame put on having to pay the mortgage insurance. I agree it isn't ideal, but we felt it was better for us to be paying towards ownership each month after seven years of renting/paying off someone else's mortgage. I can't help that my parents weren't able to provide college/weddings/cars for me, allowing me to save all that money. (Not that I'm blaming them that their parents were! Just no need to shame the fact that 20% down payment isn't realistic for everybody)

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As far as I can tell, Travis DOES have a car--and didn't he also recently acquire a trendy designer puppy? (a Labradoodle, just like Carvan)  Do we see any evidence of him having any sort of job beyond his family's singing group?  And do we know if this singing group turns a profit?  I do know that they had a song recently make the gospel Top 40 for one week, so maybe they actually recoup their recording costs.

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23 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wood-framed house in Germany though. I think the range of building styles may not be as broad in Germany (maybe because for the most part, the climate doesn’t vary too much across Germany).

I grew up with wood-framed houses as the default (in Alaska, so they are fine for a cold climate). When my husband came the US and saw them he called them "paper houses" and couldn't believe they were real.  German housing does strike me as more "solid" than a lot of what I've seen in the US--walls seem to be mostly solid brick and even indoor doors are solid wood. And the kind of windows they have really seal a living space off from the outside, so drafts are very rare. I wouldn't be surprised if houses are generally more expensive to build here. 

Germans do have a lower rate of homeownership than the US, but I think that also has to with how amazing the renter protections are here. Leases aren't a thing--they have rental agreements that don't expire, meaning that landlords can't kick you out or raise your rent at the end of the year. You also have a right to stay in your apartment even if the building is sold. Evictions are very rare, in part because if you lose your income and don't have much savings, the welfare program will pay your rent. Coming from the US this seems like renter utopia. 

 

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32 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I grew up with wood-framed houses as the default (in Alaska, so they are fine for a cold climate). When my husband came the US and saw them he called them "paper houses" and couldn't believe they were real.  

TBF to your husband, I'm often concerned about the general lack of "give a shit" in regards to housing standards in Alaska. ? I love it here, but we have some seriously substandard (ugly) architecture and (lack of) building codes that the R's think are "too restrictive." Houses in the Anchorage area seem to start at 350K and that's for a split level 70s abomination thrown up to house pipeline workers. New construction is all cookie cutter zero lot lines. Or in a literal (former) gravel pit.  

I love the A-Frame houses down in Girdwood though. Give me a cozy mountain home!

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In Travis' case I'm sure it just has a lot to do with family help and not having any bills so everything he has earned working has been able to just be saved. Plus the house looks really small and if it's a fixer upper it likely wasn't outrageously expensive. It also wouldn't surprise me if his parents helped with a down payment.

We do have a lot of friends who were able to get ahead simply by having their family pay for college/expenses, and it allowed to them to save up. BUT, Home buying at a young age is definitely possible, even if you don't have family help. My husband and I bought our home at 23 & 26. We both came out of college with student loans, his were significant (over 100k). That being said, he had been working in his profession all through college (although not what he went to college for, that was just a backup degree), making good money for his age and that he was technically part time. When we finished up college he'd already secured a well-paying job. I got a job shortly after making OK money. Aside from student loans my car was paid off, and I really didn't have other major bills.

For us it was a matter of living somewhere that rentals were already scarce, and rent was more than a mortgage. We opted for an FHA loan, and had saved enough for the down payment on it - which wasn't a high amount even though we bought a house in the mid 300's, because that's just the market in our area. As he continued to move up in jobs and receive bonuses we were very fortunate to be in a position to pay off our student loans in full and refinance to get rid of the PMI required when you do an FHA loan. 

Honestly, I think a huge key in helping young people get ahead in life starts with how we guide them into education. I'm of a generation where college was absolutely the end-all-be-all and you were told if you didn't go to college you'd never find a good job. We both have degree that serve us absolutely nothing in our professions, and got them because we were led to believe that's the only way to succeed in life. While my degree does go with my job it's 100% not required at all and most people do not have one. We both have untraditional jobs that pay very well and come with a lot of perks. Every one of my friends who opted for some sort of trade school are also doing very well for themselves. And then I have friends who went for the generic business degree, or decided to become a teacher, who are saddled with student loan debt and low-paying jobs. It makes it almost impossible to get ahead. 

We will absolutely be talking with our kids about trades and other things that interest them when it comes to post-graduation. If they have a desire to work in a field that requires a college degree we will encourage them and champion them through college. We already have college funds set up but are just as fine if they use it towards any kind of schooling, and provided they aren't just goofing off and not taking life seriously, they will be free to use the extra money towards a house, wedding, etc. I think college is a great experience, and I met some of my best friends but there are smart ways to do it. Unfortunately a lot of kids fall into the trap of not having the guidance and knowledge to know their options. 

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4 minutes ago, LillyP said:

In Travis' case I'm sure it just has a lot to do with family help and not having any bills so everything he has earned working has been able to just be saved. Plus the house looks really small and if it's a fixer upper it likely wasn't outrageously expensive. It also wouldn't surprise me if his parents helped with a down payment.

Have we seen Travis doing any working? I haven't seen him do anything except playing in the family band, so I'd be surprised if there's any money for that house that didn't come from his family. 

Edited by lumpentheologie
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