Andrea Mills 2: Watching Tom Appear to Lose His Mind

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, thoughtful said:

And, since she died young, tragically and fairly unexpectedly, she is now a martyr, a fondly-remembered loving ghost. Everything she believed and taught could be immortalized, preserved in amber, made gospel. It's hard for even an independent, smart teen to rebel against that.

Also, just the fact that she made all of those videos troubles me. Even if she'd been a perfect mother otherwise, and on my wavelength about education, humanity and politics, I would still have problems with it.

I think that putting children on display for the whole world to see is always wrong. Make a private video to show the relatives your kids' first steps and Suzuki recitals - don't make your children's entire lives a show for total strangers.

 

Yes, everything you said but especially these last few paragraphs.  

@thoughtful, @formergothardite and @under siege have done a very good job of describing the content of those old videos.  I understand you would like to see them to judge for yourself, but the fact that youtube found it necessary to take many of them down should be enough to convince you that they contained hate speech.  I found those videos chilling. 

6 hours ago, under siege said:

Someone up-thread asked what Andrea specifically said in her videos that made it all so vile.
Well, it's not just what she said, it's the sickly-sweet albeit passive-aggressive why she spoke.  How was she vile? She not only spoke about horrific events being created by (mostly) Obama but used alternate news sources as proof. It's all faked so that politicians get certain Acts approved according to Andrea, (including planned parently - she was extreme in her views on that subject also).  She smiled her way through explaining how and why it was all made up and how we are all being duped for political gain.

I wish I had kept a copy of the video instead of just sharing it. It's very hard to explain what she said besides the basics. It was equality what how she said it that made it as bad as it was.

Very well put.  Sickly-sweet and passive aggressive just about sums it up.   And it didn't take Tom (or Rachael) long to swiffer that video.  It showed Andrea's true colors.

Andrea did move away from politics after getting very negative feedback.  It spoiled the pretty picture she was trying to present.

I expect at some point they will re-edit some of the less controversial videos to get rid of Andrea's more questionable woo-woo advice.  Especially if we start talking about them.  I think the mental illness can be cured by herbs (she mocked mental illness) and cavities can be "cured" by feeding children oatmeal and lots of butter video is still up.  And apparently they need to keep the money and gifts rolling in.

Seriously, did Tom really say that he wasn't asking for money and gifts?  That's quite rich.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Palimpsest

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Very well put.  Sickly-sweet and passive aggressive just about sums it up. 

Her smirking and giggling as she mocked victims was so disturbing. Andrea was not a good person because she looked at grief stricken families and her reaction was to mock and make fun of them. 

 Obviously Tom doesn't want people to be able to watch and see her say those things, so he must know that society is not going to smile on their beliefs. Better to hide the evil and and keep people sending gifts and money. 

8 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Andrea did move away from politics after getting very negative feedback. 

She said it was rude for people to disagree with her. She also taught her kids that disagreeing was rude. Mindless obedience was her thing. 

And in the original thread it was discussed how she did have the older kids monitor the comments on the live videos, so I won't be shocked if they are doing that now. 

[3splenty]

44 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

There is one where about the Paris attack where she was super awful. There was another about Planned Parenthood and the bombings and shootings that they face, she claims they are all liars. She also in one of the videos denied Ebola. Andrea jumped on ever single hateful conspiracy theory there was. If she could attack a grieving parent she would. She would smirk and laugh at the grieving families in these videos. She spoke in these videos about how it was wrong for people to use medication to treat mental illness because Jesus and herbs would cure you. Andrea was a vile, vile person. I really can't grasp the idea that we should just pretend all the evil she spouted and indoctrinated her kids with didn't happen because she had some good homemaking ideas.  

 

First of all, I believe in God, and I believe in medicine.  I take antidepressants.  If we are given the ability to use medication for good, such as insulin for a Type I diabetic, blood pressure meds to help the heart do its job, thyroid meds (levothyroxine, for example) to help regulate hormones the body requires to function...why not treat the brain?  It's an organ, like the pancreas, heart and thyroid.  I don't feel people should be medicated for staff convenience or to the point they lose their personality (if possible).  I believe this is just one more way she (and fundies) could market herself and her family as "better thans".

We lost two area teens (and the third will have lifelong complications) in a car crash this past spring (no alcohol involved, everyone assumes this).  I drive by the memorial at the accident scene every time I do to/from work--and I choke up every time.  Christ-like behavior does not mean bragging that my kid (not in the accident) is still alive, or that they "deserved" what happened, or shoving my beliefs in their faces.  It means comforting them, helping them, easing what burdens we can.  Or just being there, nonjudgementally.

That's not what I see in Andrea.

[Koala]

This is a screenshot of one of our members @under siege linking a video in which Andrea reveals that she is COMPLETELY off the rails.  It totally changed the way I saw her.  She was almost unhinged, and the things she was talking about were pure crazy.  

When @under siege posted the video on Oct. 11th, I had no trouble viewing it.  Now it is listed as "removed by user".  

I guess after Tom took to Facebook, he realized he needed to cover their asses so no one would catch on to the level of OVER.THE.TOP crazy they were putting out there.

Screen shot:

So, yeah.  Grieving Tom is very busily scrubbing anything that might make people think twice about donating money/sending the never ending shit load of candy & gifts.

As a side note, in the comments of his Facebook whine fest about snark sites, someone said something like, "Lots of people think that just because you put your family on Youtube, you are opening yourself up for critique.  That's not true!" (paraphrase, and I am not prepared to wade through the crazy to find it again...that was the gist of it, though).  

I want to say that I am stunned that anyone would be stupid, but this is the Internet, and anything's possible.

[SilverBeach]

6 hours ago, Curious said:

I can understand being republican, just not loving Trump. 

I can undertand being what republicans used to stand for, but not now. 

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

There is one where about the Paris attack where she was super awful. There was another about Planned Parenthood and the bombings and shootings that they face, she claims they are all liars. She also in one of the videos denied Ebola. Andrea jumped on ever single hateful conspiracy theory there was. If she could attack a grieving parent she would. She would smirk and laugh at the grieving families in these videos. She spoke in these videos about how it was wrong for people to use medication to treat mental illness because Jesus and herbs would cure you. Andrea was a vile, vile person. I really can't grasp the idea that we should just pretend all the evil she spouted and indoctrinated her kids with didn't happen because she had some good homemaking ideas.  

 

I wish I could select a bunch of reactions for this. Very well said. Leghumpers are going to leghump, but there is no way to pretend you don't know what Andrea was and what Tom is. Gut-wrenchingly vile and delusional on top of it. 

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes, everything you said but especially these last few paragraphs.

Thanks. I've always been uncomfortable with children being put on TV and online for their parents' egos and incomes, but FJ, and you specifically, have made me more adamant about it.

 

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

@formergothardite and @under siege have done a very good job of describing the content of those old videos.  I understand you would like to see them to judge for yourself, but the fact that youtube found it necessary to take many of them down should be enough to convince you that they contained hate speech.  I found those videos chilling. 

Oh, no! I didn't say I wanted to see them, and the fact that Youtube took them down was enough to convince me they were hateful (I think I said that, at some point). I was asking for people to tell me what their subject matter was. Thanks to all who did.

It was very clear to me that Andrea was hateful in her belief that massacres were faked. Since people had said that the other videos were worse, and since Youtube took them down but left the Sandy Hook one, I was wondering if they were about other subjects, rather then the false flag conspiracy shit.

I wanted to know whether Tom and Andrea had ever expressed themselves specifically on subjects like race (other than the Obama-hate, which I always suspect of being badly-masked racism), immigration, non-Christians, LGBT and transgender issues, etc. - the usual bigoted bullshit of many of the people we discuss on FJ.

It is tempting to assume - the urge to think "they're that kind of judgemental, rigid fundie, so of course they also hate ______ " (insert non-fundie group here), but I don't want to. I know you're a "stick to the facts" person, @Palimpsest, so I hope that makes my intent clear.

I read through the oldest thread about the Millses, and got a little more information, but nothing about those subjects. Not sure if I have the intestinal fortitude to watch Tom's videos to find out if he ever was explicit about his hates.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

Here we go. Livestream: RIP Knuckles.

1. Knuckles had a vet appointment yesterday and they recommended that he be put to sleep. The kids didn't want him to be put to sleep. He wasn't in pain, but the vet still recommend it because he didn't have much quality of life and probably had dementia and was deaf. Some of the smaller kids were confused and thought that they were going to put him to bed. Tom did not want to be in the room when Knuckles was euthanized, but looked in on him afterwards. Knuckles was 15 years old. Tom has (wisely, imho) decided to not get another dog for awhile.

2. The kids "okay." They're still sad sometimes. Tom says they don't know what to do sometimes.

3. The haters aren't getting to Tom too much. He feels terrible for Rachel Day. He found "this snark page" that was "disgusting." He says that there were "4 pages" talking about how obsessive Rachel is, but that "someone" (hmm...) did a 25-point list of his video that that was "obsessive."  Tom mentions that these lists post when the kids are crying and when the Alexa breaks in. He also says that the lists say "what the kid was crying from"...which no. No it does not. I know this because I wrote it. I did write the children are grieving. And they are. I did not insinuate that's what they were crying from--just that they were grieving and it might be best to check on them if you think they might be crying. I stand by that statement. He says there's always been haters even before Andrea passed and that CPS has been called on his family several times. 

He says that "the haters" don't bother him, but honestly it's very clear to me that it is. I just don't think I'm comfortable doing the Livestream recaps anymore, particularly because I feel as though I'm causing him extra pain and I don't want that for him or the kids right now. 

 

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, thoughtful said:

It is tempting to assume - the urge to think "they're that kind of judgemental, rigid fundie, so of course they also hate ______ " (insert non-fundie group here), but I don't want to.

With extreme conspiracy nuts like this, the odds are high that the umbrella of hate covers a lot. Rabid Dump lovers, like the Mills, typically agree with all of his hate-spewing diatribes. So, unless these folks specifically exempt someone or something from their hate, I'm not going to assume they have any love for the typical targets, such as minorities, immigrants, non-cis-het people, liberals, etc. It's a one note song. 

[formergothardite]

20 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

wanted to know whether Tom and Andrea had ever expressed themselves specifically on subjects like race (other than the Obama-hate, which I always suspect of being badly-masked racism), immigration, non-Christians, LGBT and transgender issues, etc. - the usual bigoted bullshit of many of the people we discuss on FJ.

They are die-hard Trump supporters, the curriculum they use is filled with racism. My memory of looking at Tom's page when more of his stuff was public is that they are average fundies who also worship Trump and buy into crazy conspiracy theories. 

[thoughtful]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

the curriculum they use is filled with racism

I knew I forgot to say something in that last post.

I had heard that the ACE curriculum is shoddy educationally, but it was reading your previous posts that made me realize that it is also incredibly racist and sexist. Thanks, @formergothardite.

So, if Andrea taught from ACE and didn't contradict anything it said, that gives us a clearer picture of the likelihood that those kids have been taught to be racist and sexist.

I also remember reading, in the old threads, that people who'd watched more of her videos said she never seemed to picture her daughters as anything other than wives and homemakers, with no thought that they might work for pay someday.

 

[Curious]

I know no one has brought this up, but with the way this thread is going, I want to clarify that the trumpers I am still friends with do not rigidly follow all his beliefs.  They are not racist, homophobes, xenophobes, etc.   I actually haven't talked about any of the newer stuff that has come up (Ukraine, rudy etc) to see if they have had a change of heart about him.

Tom, when people aren't bothered by something they don't start deleting things and professing things don't bother them.  They just carry on.

If you put your life on the WORLD WIDE WEB for the public to see (and you to make money off of) you are absolutely going to have people disagreements and differing opinions.  We have a site dedicated to "snarking" on us and we don't scrub the site because of things said there.

[louannems]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

There is one where about the Paris attack where she was super awful. There was another about Planned Parenthood and the bombings and shootings that they face, she claims they are all liars. She also in one of the videos denied Ebola. Andrea jumped on ever single hateful conspiracy theory there was. If she could attack a grieving parent she would. She would smirk and laugh at the grieving families in these videos. She spoke in these videos about how it was wrong for people to use medication to treat mental illness because Jesus and herbs would cure you. Andrea was a vile, vile person. I really can't grasp the idea that we should just pretend all the evil she spouted and indoctrinated her kids with didn't happen because she had some good homemaking ideas.  

 

I saw the Paris attacks video showing covered dead bodies, all set to cutesy, circus-like music.  Andrea claimed they were all actors. All shootings and violence we're fake news to Andrea.

My take on it, besides Andrea having a weird tendency towards conspiracy theories, is she lived in la-la land. She seemed ultra naive and just could not believe that horrible things happen.  She was born and raised in Moorcraft, Wyoming, in a town of about 2,000 people. It seems to be a safe, friendly little town and she lived a very sheltered existence.

She also had the strange belief that her mom, a tiny town news reporter, was approached by FBI people and told to make up news stories,  including 9-11!

Who knows, perhaps Andrea was already suffering from brain mets from her cancer and that affected her judgement.

I started watching her videos a year and a half ago when I was off my feet recovering from surgery for 3 months.  Andrea was an extremely prolific video maker, and she was good at it.  I watched many, many, most of them.

Of course I was appalled at the ACE, unassisted homebirth, wacky religious beliefs that could only lead to home churching, lack of medical/dental for the kids, etc.

Only a very few of the videos were about conspiracy theories, and I agree, it was like a mask being removed.  Even her fans were appalled at them.

As an insomniac, watching her drive down snowy, flat endless highways to Walmart, set to soothing music, did a lot to help me sleep!

Edited October 19, 2019 by louannems

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

seemed ultra naive and just could not believe that horrible things happen. 

I don't know. A lot of it, to me, seemed to stem from her hatred of Obama. She really hated him. Combine her hatred of Obama and liberals with paranoia that they were going to take guns then we get the people, like Andrea, who decided Obama faked this stuff to pass strict gun laws. There was almost a cruel streak with her and how she mocked victims and their families. She seemed to enjoy the nasty videos when she made them. 

 Her 9/11 stuff was just insane. Did her Mom tell her that stuff and if she did, then her Mom is pretty out there too. 

[SIngingforsupper]

Tom and Andrea certainly have their own world view. It is very different from mine. They believe that Biblical teaching comes first above all else. The world they live in is very traditional in regards to marriage and child rearing. It goes beyond traditional with the bible playing 24/7 in some rooms, ACE education, conspiracy theories, wearing the same clothes, home church, disdain for modern medicine and isolation. I certainly could not live that way and I think the more isolated they became the crazier everything got. I think Andrea truly loved her children and was in her world a very traditional Mom. Tom liked it that way. He did 'manly" things around the house. He has no idea what to do without her. In Tom's world he is a great father (church elder) and provider. I find it sad that he can't  go to  counseling simply because he thinks he can't open up. I do hope things get better for the kids soon. I feel awful for the little ones. They must just wander around the house while the others are trying to get school done.  They all must feel lost and alone. It's one big mess that may never change.

[mollysmom]

38 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Her 9/11 stuff was just insane. Did her Mom tell her that stuff and if she did, then her Mom is pretty out there too. 

Good question for Rachel since she knows everything. ?

[Dandruff]

Sounds like what was spewed came back to bite...Andrea died (in part) of poisonous bile and now her husband and children are the ones grieving.

I didn't watch many of her videos before things hit the fan, because both Andrea and Tom struck me as a bit creepy, but the Walmart trips and family stuff were pleasantly distracting.  Helpful for the insomnia.

I'm glad Knuckles is at peace.  I hope the children can find peace.  I think Tom is going to be remarried sooner rather than later.

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

With extreme conspiracy nuts like this, the odds are high that the umbrella of hate covers a lot. Rabid Dump lovers, like the Mills, typically agree with all of his hate-spewing diatribes.

I have also seen, and been disgusted by, a fair amount of consistency in bigots. But I have also seen exceptions.

3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

 So, unless these folks specifically exempt someone or something from their hate, I'm not going to assume they have any love for the typical targets, such as minorities, immigrants, non-cis-het people, liberals, etc. It's a one note song. 

I'm not going to assume in either direction.

I guess it can come off sounding like I'm "going easy" on people like this. I'm not.  Here are my reasons for not wanting to spout off about the Millses, or anyone else, hating people and things they haven't actually mentioned.

It runs the risk of my stooping to their level.

It is not as interesting. Even haters have variety, and I find discussing the details more interesting than just dismissing them all as one monolithic lump.

Most of all, assuming anyone has ALL of the bigotry (as the Hyperbole and a Half cartoon figure might say!) leaves me open to being dismissed as unreasonable. That can negate all of my arguments. I want to have a leg to stand on (and I want the same for FJ), to be able to say "these are the facts and your own words and actions prove them" to bigots.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

Tom's face and eyes in the last Livestream were just filled with so much pain. His affect was flat. It's clear he's suffering a lot right now. Yes, he and Andrea had some hateful views, but right now Tom is the singular parent for nine children and he is not doing well, at all. If he's not doing well, those kids don't have a chance of doing well either. I just hope that he relents and seeks out a counselor--it could do him so much good. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Saywha?]

Ok I have two questions I’m hoping someone can  Enlighten me on;

1. Are the videos she made about conspiracy theories around Sandy Hook and 9:11 true? Is that real she really did that?

 

2. The Papa Gary stuff. A quick search online does show that he’s a registered sex offender. Does that explain why in one video he couldn’t go to Chuck E. Cheese with the family? Does anyone know what the crimes were and why he was still around the children? I’m assuming he didn’t affect the children.

 

I follow this family and continue to even though they are nothing like my own just out of interest. I find the homeschool situation very sad so that does pull at my heartstrings but I’m also very sad that the family doesn’t have a mother, a very important figure in their world anymore. But in order to know if I can support them anymore I would like some clarity especially on the above two things!

 

[ViolaSebastian]

6 minutes ago, Saywha? said:

Ok I have two questions I’m hoping someone can  Enlighten me on;

1. Are the videos she made about conspiracy theories around Sandy Hook and 9:11 true? Is that real she really did that?

 

2. The Papa Gary stuff. A quick search online does show that he’s a registered sex offender. Does that explain why in one video he couldn’t go to Chuck E. Cheese with the family? Does anyone know what the crimes were and why he was still around the children? I’m assuming he didn’t affect the children.

 

I follow this family and continue to even though they are nothing like my own just out of interest. I find the homeschool situation very sad so that does pull at my heartstrings but I’m also very sad that the family doesn’t have a mother, a very important figure in their world anymore. But in order to know if I can support them anymore I would like some clarity especially on the above two things!

 

Yes, the denier stuff is all real. Here's someone talking about it in May, 2018. The videos, it appears, have been removed.

I don't believe we know anything about Papa Gary other than the it was "immoral and indecent acts with a minor" and that he's a lifetime sex offender registrant. 

[mollysmom]

24 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Tom's face and eyes in the last Livestream were just filled with so much pain. His affect was flat. It's clear he's suffering a lot right now. Yes, he and Andrea had some hateful views, but right now Tom is the singular parent for nine children and he is not doing well, at all. If he's not doing well, those kids don't have a chance of doing well either. I just hope that he relents and seeks out a counselor--it could do him so much good. 

I noticed his countenance right away too. But to me he looked angry/hardened which is probably a weird thing to say but that's exactly what I thought when I saw him on the live stream this morning. I do agree that the worse he's doing the worse those kids will be doing. They need him. He is the only parent figure that they have left. I really wish he would swallow his pride & get some help. It helps so much just to be able to talk to someone outside of the situation. 

[Curious]

10 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

I noticed his countenance right away too. But to me he looked angry/hardened which is probably a weird thing to say but that's exactly what I thought when I saw him on the live stream this morning. I do agree that the worse he's doing the worse those kids will be doing. They need him. He is the only parent figure that they have left. I really wish he would swallow his pride & get some help. It helps so much just to be able to talk to someone outside of the situation. 

Tom should get counseling, but if he doesn't want to that's on him.  The kids, however, SHOULD be getting therapy regardless of whether Tom does or not.  He should be able to separate his needs from the kids and realize they need help.   I still find it really odd that he is devastated and grieving, but thinks the children who lost their mother are "fine."

Someone said that Tom didn't really want that many kids, but he loved Andrea and Andrea loved babies.  I wonder if the fact that now he's alone raising all of them makes him a little resentful and that is why he is refusing to see they have needs that are not being met.

[Zenyatta]

Is is okay by the Bible to seek grief therapy?  Do the kids have to be "fine" because the Bible tells them their mother is in paradise? From what I know of fundie families, the Bible leads to strange things. Tommy is master of his domain and whatever he does or says is absolutely correct even if he doesn't know what he is doing. 

43 minutes ago, Curious said:

Tom should get counseling, but if he doesn't want to that's on him.  The kids, however, SHOULD be getting therapy regardless of whether Tom does or not. 

Did molester Josh get therapy?  Did his sisters? Seems like being a Bible-thumper alters reality. 

[Nothankyou]

I've lurked here for a bit, The Mills family has been upsetting to watch..enough that I felt the need to make an account. It really is upsetting to watch Tom constantly dismiss that his kids are "doing just fine" any time someone asks about them but he is in such grief he apparently needs to have complete strangers aka "the youtube people" to blow smoke up his ass to be ok for the day. He constantly post about him not being ok, but without a glimmer of  thought, shows absolutely no concern for his kids. With how much he is uploading and is on live, it seems pretty evident that he is spending little to no time with them. It's heartbreaking to watch his two young sons (Judah and Asher) try to raise their sister Hannah. From one of the live videos, someone asks to see Hannah and he has one of the sons hand her to him as he says "she just screams if I hold her" as predicted Hannah cries her head off as you seen a grown ass man with 9 kids not know how to hold his kid.  He doesnt attempt to comfort or soothe,  just throws her back to his son- that shows how little that bloody man has done and does for that baby. And they're not allowed to have therapy because he apparently had to have therapy as a kid when his dad died and he wont do that to his kids. Ignoring his kids and making them take care of each other with no parents, while filming and putting it all on YouTube definitely feels like the better choice- great job, Tom ?.

[Pleiades_06]

6 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Here we go. Livestream: RIP Knuckles.

1. Knuckles had a vet appointment yesterday and they recommended that he be put to sleep. The kids didn't want him to be put to sleep. He wasn't in pain, but the vet still recommend it because he didn't have much quality of life and probably had dementia and was deaf. Some of the smaller kids were confused and thought that they were going to put him to bed. Tom did not want to be in the room when Knuckles was euthanized, but looked in on him afterwards. Knuckles was 15 years old. Tom has (wisely, imho) decided to not get another dog for awhile.

2. The kids "okay." They're still sad sometimes. Tom says they don't know what to do sometimes.

3. The haters aren't getting to Tom too much. He feels terrible for Rachel Day. He found "this snark page" that was "disgusting." He says that there were "4 pages" talking about how obsessive Rachel is, but that "someone" (hmm...) did a 25-point list of his video that that was "obsessive."  Tom mentions that these lists post when the kids are crying and when the Alexa breaks in. He also says that the lists say "what the kid was crying from"...which no. No it does not. I know this because I wrote it. I did write the children are grieving. And they are. I did not insinuate that's what they were crying from--just that they were grieving and it might be best to check on them if you think they might be crying. I stand by that statement. He says there's always been haters even before Andrea passed and that CPS has been called on his family several times. 

He says that "the haters" don't bother him, but honestly it's very clear to me that it is. I just don't think I'm comfortable doing the Livestream recaps anymore, particularly because I feel as though I'm causing him extra pain and I don't want that for him or the kids right now. 

 

I also wrote a list. And I googled it and Tom Mills. It is NOT at the top of any searches-you have to really scroll down to see anything. He went digging and let his kids dig in the Internet too, which is not ok. Although I do kind of hope the older ones see this and realize people are thinking of them and there is more than one way to live a life beyond what your parents believe