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Andrea Mills 2: Watching Tom Appear to Lose His Mind


Coconut Flan

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Being a curious sort I decided to look up the community strike stuff as I've never heard of it.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802032?hl=en

According to this page, the first time you get a warning.  The second time you get a strike and can't do stuff for 1 week as Tom described on the FB post.

I also looked up the category he said he was tapped for where is here:

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2801973?hl=en

Having not watched any of the live videos I am only guessing that maybe him talking about all the gifts or the GFM makes it fall under some type of "money-making" scam.   That's just a wild guess because based on what people have said about the videos.   Nothing else listed seems like it's happening or someone would have mentioned it.

As a side note, when Lori posts her "youtubes" about black salve being a miracle cure all, we all need to report that shit.

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18 minutes ago, HeadacheLife said:

“Just a heads up to our YouTube followers. We got a community strike against our first Live game night video because it said it violated their policy on "scams and deceptive practices." As a result we will be unable to post anything or go live for one week. This will affect of course the next game night as well as our next bible study. 

I have appealed the decision, but we will see what happens. I have taken down the rest of the live game night videos until I find out what is going on.”

Good. I hope this forced break gives him a bit of distance and perspective, and hopefully results in him spending more time with his grieving kids.

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1 hour ago, there_is_no_fun_in_fundie said:

Good. I hope this forced break gives him a bit of distance and perspective, and hopefully results in him spending more time with his grieving kids.

This. 

I watched the first few minutes of his Bible Study.  He opens by saying that he "accidentally" scheduled it for 8:00 pm bedtime, but Asher has "graciously" offered to take care of all the little kids' needs and put them to bed.  As if Asher doesn't seem to do that every night for Hannah, and the others are probably falling into bed like tired puppies all by themselves.

I call bullshit, Tommy, on the idea you are ever involved in bedtime routines.  But perhaps having to go cold turkey on youtube will get you to do some actual parenting instead of leaving so much to Asher.

The fans are going nuts on Facebook about the community strike.  Cries of intolerance and censorship by youtube.  We'll have "persecution" any second now.

Not sure whether this has to do with the community strike or not, but I (and obviously at least one fan) noticed a naked child behind on the Game Night video.  I wasn't going to draw attention to it, but the incident was mentioned on Facebook.  Not naming the minor child because I respect her privacy, but her dress rode up and she wasn't wearing any underwear.  It is reason #2,300,093 not to live stream on youtube.  

A brother pulled her dress back down very quickly, obviously aware of the camera.   Yes, those children are very aware of the camera and performing for it.

Let me quote once more from Child Advocate Paul Petersen's powerful testimony in 2010.  This is an excerpt from his testimony at the hearing for the "Gosselin Law" in 2010, but is just as relevant for youtubers.

Quote

Children are not Meerkats. They are decidedly not the same as a pride of lions being filmed by a naturalist on an African plain. They are aware…and if you’ll just close your eyes and remember when Dad took out the movie camera to film you playing in the back yard and the way you mugged for the camera…you’ll know to a certainty that even a two year old toddler knows when a camera is present. 

Cameras and microphones alter behaviors. The presence of a working film crew alters the dynamics within a home. When money is thrown into an altered reality things can become extremely complicated. For the developing child who finds themselves in the voracious maw of the media there is literally no concept of the life-long consequences they will have to live with for the next sixty, seventy of eighty years of their lives.

Let me blunt about this: There is no Delete button on the internet. Once your identity becomes public there is no going back. Images can be manipulated, and even the most innocent activity can be changed to suit the mind of the consumer of popular entertainment. It is a dangerous world out there, my friends, and all of us need to be constantly reminded that the consequences of fundamentally and publicly altering the life of a growing child will have consequences. Each of us is directly connected to every day or our lives.

Glimpses of naked bottoms aside, young Solly is obviously playing to the camera.  Eden in one video pointed out to Tom that she had "said it out loud for youtube."  And I cannot begin to express the rage I felt when Asher was told to "smile." 

On behalf of women and children everywhere, never tell us to smile.  We may not feel like f'ing smiling and we don't exist to satisfy your needs. 

Asher turned to the camera and grimaced the fakest grin ever.  Passive aggressive, perhaps, but I'm not going to blame him.  I would have flipped youtube off, myself.

Poor Asher.  That young man is so over being videoed for his parents' egos and "ministry."  IMO.

Edited by Palimpsest
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So Mileena, Juddah, and Eden all have YouTube channels now. This is just my opinion, but I think it's wrong for kids to 1). Be put on YouTube by their parents. 2) to start their own and have it public for all to see. Your childhood is when you are learning and growing. You make mistakes. I know I did some really cringeworthy things that I'm glad wasnt filmed and immortalized for all the world to see. I went through awkward stages.  And that's just normal kid/adolescent stuff. My mom didnt die in front of me and my dad didn't film it so it could be viewed forever.. They now all seem to be seeking comfort in how they see their dad seeks it.  I was suprized to see that he had a strike, but I'm honestly thankful that he's forced to take a break. If he post a bunch of finished videos, we'll know he didnt spend that time with his kids.

Tom, if you are reading this, please just take a step back for a moment. You seem to be so deep in grief that you can't see farther than the nose on your face. And I get that. No one but you knows what you are truly going through. If you find such solace in live streaming, then allow yourself a set time and limit it. Try to set it for once a week and then spend the other time with your kids. You said that trip with Asher did you both a world of good and, even though he didnt want to at first, he was happy he did. Make some more one on one times like that. Take a kid for a walk, just the two of you. Even if you dont want to. Even if they say they dont want to. It's ok to not be ok. None of you are supposed to be. Take this time to build your relationships with your children..not with random YouTube people.  

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10 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

On behalf of women and children everywhere, never tell us to smile.  We may not feel like f'ing smiling and we don't exist to satisfy your needs. 

I wanted to give you a hundred upvotes for this part. 

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10 minutes ago, catlady said:

I wanted to give you a hundred upvotes for this part. 

I do feel rather strongly about it!

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2 hours ago, can'tstopwatching said:

It sometimes occurs to me how much space of the small house is taken up by Tom's office. I understand they run a home business, but to use up all that space for the office while 5 boys share one tiny room seems really selfish, it is quite big. I hope he considers that in his house renovation plans that he hopes to do so that the kids can have some more breathing room.

Ed: the pantry is also the size of a bedroom and used to be a bedroom ??...

I was thinking the same about the pantry. It could be a good room for two of the boys, in two rooms, now that Thomas is considering to move out. Finally he'll be free at last...

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1 hour ago, there_is_no_fun_in_fundie said:

Good. I hope this forced break gives him a bit of distance and perspective, and hopefully results in him spending more time with his grieving kids.

Isn’t Facebook live a thing? I’m sure he’ll find a way especially if everyone is begging for it. He also has his own channel. 

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51 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

This. 

I watched the first few minutes of his Bible Study.  He opens by saying that he "accidentally" scheduled it for 8:00 pm bedtime, but Asher has "graciously" offered to take care of all the little kids' needs and put them to bed.  As if Asher doesn't seem to do that every night for Hannah, and the others are probably falling into bed like tired puppies all by themselves.

I call bullshit, Tommy, on the idea you are ever involved in bedtime routines.  But perhaps having to go cold turkey on youtube will get you to do some actual parenting instead of leaving so much to Asher.

The fans are going nuts on Facebook about the community strike.  Cries of intolerance and censorship by youtube.  We'll have "persecution" any second now.

Not sure whether this has to do with the community strike or not, but I (and obviously at least one fan) noticed a naked child behind on the Game Night video.  I wasn't going to draw attention to it, but the incident was mentioned on Facebook.  Not naming the minor child because I respect her privacy, but her dress rode up and she wasn't wearing any underwear.  It is reason #2,300,093 not to live stream on youtube.  

A brother pulled her dress back down very quickly, obviously aware of the camera.   Yes, those children are very aware of the camera and performing for it.

Let me quote once more from Child Advocate Paul Petersen's powerful testimony in 2010.  This is an excerpt from his testimony at the hearing for the "Gosselin Law" in 2010, but is just as relevant for youtubers.

Glimpses of naked bottoms aside, young Solly is obviously playing to the camera.  Eden in one video pointed out to Tom that she had "said it out loud for youtube."  And I cannot begin to express the rage I felt when Asher was told to "smile." 

On behalf of women and children everywhere, never tell us to smile.  We may not feel like f'ing smiling and we don't exist to satisfy your needs. 

Asher turned to the camera and grimaced the fakest grin ever.  Passive aggressive, perhaps, but I'm not going to blame him.  I would have flipped youtube off, myself.

Poor Asher.  That young man is so over being videoed for his parents' egos and "ministry."  IMO.

I couldn't agree more with you. If there is one thing that makes me upset it is if someone tells me to smile. If I don't feel like it I wont. Now Asher had to force a grim, even after his father asked what was going on, like why was Asher speaking for the camera... OMFG, really, poor kid, he has all my sympathy… He's not forced to smile just to please the "money giving Youtube people" and the sewing ladies who give their stuff from "their hearts" with no second intentions... There's a few of them that are for sure fishing themselves a husband...

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Tom left this (public) edit:

Quote

EDIT: It actually isn’t our first live stream, it was a FUTURE live stream that I just scheduled and hasn’t happened yet. I had scheduled the next 4 of them, I am guessing the system was thinking I was spamming. Hopefully it is resolved soon.

 

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That is one thing I did like about Andrea, she let Asher just be Asher. He always liked to not smile for as long as he could. And she'd just laugh and say that it was just part of his personality. There's a lot I didnt and dont agree with this family. But Andrea did seem to truly love her kids.  She could describe them and even changed her entire way of doing something if she saw it wasnt working (like Juddah). I think about the Bates and Duggars who describe their kids like they were reading a fortune cookie.

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29 minutes ago, Nothankyou said:

But Andrea did seem to truly love her kids.  She could describe them

Low bar, most parents love their kids and can do this, we just don't do it on YouTube.

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On 10/19/2019 at 6:30 AM, thoughtful said:

Can anyone who knows the subjects of the videos that were removed from Youtube tell us what they were? I'm taking people's word for it that they were hateful, but would like to know more.

I've been trying to learn more about this family, and what their lives were like when Andrea was alive. So I've watched some of the everyday videos.

It struck me, reading through the previous thread, how often the word "calming" was used for Andrea. And I think that's part of the issue, part of how she came off as so benign when she was not.

In the videos I watched, I could see that she had the abilities of a good primary-grade classroom teacher. She kept her voice moderated, her expression kind and often amused (she really noticed when any of the kids were trying to make her laugh, and rewarded them with a chuckle), and she had a great rhythm for moving her attention around the room and making sure everyone knew they were noticed.

She let the kids express negative opinions about things, and really listened to them. She touched them often, and seemed open to being interrupted, grabbed or hugged at any time. She tailored the decorative parts of their homeschool materials to their tastes, could engage the little ones with activities and manipulatives, and seemed to be teaching them some real skills (whether it was the fault of ACE or her, it struck me the older kids were still getting a little-kid curriculum, though).

The videos were edited for maximum cuteness, and all of that cheerful music was added. That alone could hypnotize most people.

And, of course, all of that is even more reason, to me, to find her chilling. Those kids were being held back educationally, trapped in so many ways, and raised with lies, hate and woo, in a cheerful, calm atmosphere.

It seems to me that it would be easier for kids to give up on a screamer like PP, a whiner like JIll Rod, or a zoom-crash bipolar like John Shrader. If a hateful parent has a troublesome way of behaving, it might help a child see the flaws faster if they grow and learn more about the world and if they want to make other choices.

But Andrea was so patient, so calm, so kind to them. Unless there was some yelling or Pearl-like crap we didn't see, the control was exerted, and the hateful beliefs taught, with a velvet glove.

And, since she died young, tragically and fairly unexpectedly, she is now a martyr, a fondly-remembered loving ghost. Everything she believed and taught could be immortalized, preserved in amber, made gospel. It's hard for even an independent, smart teen to rebel against that.

:scared-whoa:

Also, just the fact that she made all of those videos troubles me. Even if she'd been a perfect mother otherwise, and on my wavelength about education, humanity and politics, I would still have problems with it.

I think that putting children on display for the whole world to see is always wrong. Make a private video to show the relatives your kids' first steps and Suzuki recitals - don't make your children's entire lives a show for total strangers.

 

And in comparison to a very unavailable father they will remember her even more as only loving and kind. It's hard to lose a parent as it is, but these children really got the short end of the stick.

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All the Game Night games have been taken down now. I bet it does have something to do with the opening gifts/GFM mention-I remember another you tuber having issues when fundraising for something.

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26 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Low bar, most parents love their kids and can do this, we just don't do it on YouTube.

I agree. It's a crazy low bar. It's a crazy low bar that the only "space" those teenage boys have is a built in bed with a curtain. Unfortunately, with all these crazy fundies, the bar is on the ground. But when CPS has been called dozens of times (by their own admission) and doesn't deem it unacceptable of what they're doing...there's nothing any of us can do about it. 

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Amen on leaving the poor girl be. What an absolutely horrible life she’s had as a kid. Oh and Rachel was answering her comments too. Get a life Rachel. Or get yourself some comments in YOUR OWN channel to talk to. Bud out of a teen girl’s life and stealing her light.  Super weird. 

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2 hours ago, Nothankyou said:

That is one thing I did like about Andrea, she let Asher just be Asher. He always liked to not smile for as long as he could. And she'd just laugh and say that it was just part of his personality. There's a lot I didnt and dont agree with this family. But Andrea did seem to truly love her kids.  She could describe them and even changed her entire way of doing something if she saw it wasnt working (like Juddah). I think about the Bates and Duggars who describe their kids like they were reading a fortune cookie.

You know, I don't think anyone here will deny that Andrea loved her children.  To pieces.

But Asher had Resting Sad Face in many of the early videos.  And refusing to smile may not just have been part of his personality.  It may have been an indication of revulsion and rebellion at the video..

Andrea also said about Asher that his idea of a nightmare was to be forced to interact with strangers. 

Now that is not surprising in a (horrendously "sheltered" and isolated from normal schooling)  naturally introverted and shy kid.  But part of a parent's responsibility is to prepare a shy and introverted sweet and caring kid to interact with the outside world.  In person.

And you don't do that through forcing a kid to interact with youtube fans. 

Asher's fake grins at the camera still chill me.  The fake smiles and grins both before and after Andrea's death.

But Asher is an astounding young man who has always taken enormous care of his siblings.  When both Mom and Dad have passed the parenting responsibility over to him far too frequently. 

 I wonder what Asher's dreams for his future entail. 

And he is not a "young man."  He is a 15 year-old child who has had too much responsibility on his shoulders for years.

Asher is Brother-Mom.

 

Edited by Palimpsest
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Asher will end up supporting a family on his lawn and snow plowing business. Andrea made him a planner, business cards and she did his billing for him. She also gave him a book about growing your lawn care business. That is what is expected and I think he will do it. Andrea expected them to be ready to care of themselves by 18. I can't remember which video it was in but I shocked  when she said that.I was also shocked when she said in the same video that the kids will take care of them in their old age because she and Tom provided for them and for that reason they have no retirement savings. So Mills kids get to work and be ready to care for Dad in his old age. Hopefully better than he cared for Knuckles in his!

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37 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

You know, I don't think anyone here will deny that Andrea loved her children.  To pieces.

But Asher had Resting Sad Face in many of the early videos.  And refusing to smile may not just have been part of his personality.  It may have been an indication of revulsion and rebellion at the video..

Andrea also said about Asher that his idea of a nightmare was to be forced to interact with strangers. 

Now that is not surprising in a (horrendously "sheltered" and isolated from normal schooling)  naturally introverted and shy kid.  But part of a parent's responsibility is to prepare a shy and introverted sweet and caring kid to interact with the outside world.  In person.

And you don't do that through forcing a kid to interact with youtube fans. 

Asher's fake grins at the camera still chill me.  The fake smiles and grins both before and after Andrea's death.

But Asher is an astounding young man who has always taken enormous care of his siblings.  When both Mom and Dad have passed the parenting responsibility over to him. 

 I wonder what Asher's dreams for his future entail. 

And he is not a "young man."  He is a 15 year-old child who has had too much responsibility on his shoulders for years.

Asher is Brother-Mom.

 

Brother- Mom is such a sad a true depiction. I have a huge soft spot for Asher because I was very similar as a kid. I had to raise my siblings because my mom was a single mom and I was the oldest and was very responsible. It's hard to see that he's taken advantage of so bad. It's in his nature to step up and be responsible, and Tom takes full advantage of that. He knows if he doesnt do anything, that kid has got it covered. Tom thinks that because he's not being directly asked to do so that it's some how better than commanding it, but it's not. Tom is basically being purposely neglectful and not stepping up and sitting back and watching his sons be forced to. I vaguely remember one of her sons (Justus maybe?), breaking down at an amusement park and balling his eyes out that Andrea was going to ride one of the rides because he didnt want her to die. But those kids are all totally "fine" guys ?.

Rachel Day is also at an entirely different level of freaking creepy. I went and looked at her responses to the oldest daughters videos after someone mentioned it here. Yikes! She could just about have her own thread at this point. She's got some crazy eyes going on in that profile pic of hers.

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26 minutes ago, SIngingforsupper said:

Asher will end up supporting a family on his lawn and snow plowing business. Andrea made him a planner, business cards and she did his billing for him. She also gave him a book about growing your lawn care business. That is what is expected and I think he will do it. Andrea expected them to be ready to care of themselves by 18. I can't remember which video it was in but I shocked  when she said that.I was also shocked when she said in the same video that the kids will take care of them in their old age because she and Tom provided for them and for that reason they have no retirement savings. So Mills kids get to work and be ready to care for Dad in his old age. Hopefully better than he cared for Knuckles in his!

First of all, hahaha to Tom getting out in YouTube jail. I am sure the detox is not a pleasant experience for him. But I worry even more about how Rachel will handle the break... Probably why she has moved on to Mileena's channel. 

On the subject of retirement, Tom mentioned putting some of the donations towards retirement savings because he didn't feel people would want to hire an 80 year old to fix their computers. So hopefully he isn't expecting his kids to support him in his golden years.

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52 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

First of all, hahaha to Tom getting out in YouTube jail. I am sure the detox is not a pleasant experience for him. But I worry even more about how Rachel will handle the break... Probably why she has moved on to Mileena's channel. 

On the subject of retirement, Tom mentioned putting some of the donations towards retirement savings because he didn't feel people would want to hire an 80 year old to fix their computers. So hopefully he isn't expecting his kids to support him in his golden years.

I feel a little bit squicky about this. On one hand, the donations are gifts and he can do with them what he pleases. On the other hand, I have to imagine people gave either to help with medical bills or help the children in some tangible, immediate to semi-immediate way (e.g. current or future educational expenses, medical bills for the children, etc.). Heck, even providing enough money so that Tom could close down the shop one more day a week and spend time with them. Heck, I even think it'd be a good idea to hire a part-time nanny at this point to come in in the afternoons and do dinner and bedtime for the littlest ones. The idea of Tom using that money to finance his retirement makes me uncomfortable. I don't feel as though that money was given so that he could have a comfortable old age.

Edited by ViolaSebastian
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4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

 

Not sure whether this has to do with the community strike or not, but I (and obviously at least one fan) noticed a naked child behind on the Game Night video.  I wasn't going to draw attention to it, but the incident was mentioned on Facebook.  Not naming the minor child because I respect her privacy, but her dress rode up and she wasn't wearing any underwear.  It is reason #2,300,093 not to live stream on youtube.  

I'm much more unruffled by childhood nudity including family pictures than many people. I don't think seeing your kid's name on a backpack will lead some random bad guy to kidnap, I don't check Halloween candy because it's fine, and I think funny parenting stories about how annoying your little darling was last weekend won't cause lifelong trauma if the kid sees it someday. 

Posting a video where your small child's genitals were exposed to 7,000 strangers who have no boundaries (but DO have your home address) and know you let your children spend time with a registered sex offender is just absolutely insane. Those kids are going to be so at risk for grooming and abusive relationships when they get a little older. At least keep them off the creepy radar now... 

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1 hour ago, SIngingforsupper said:

Asher will end up supporting a family on his lawn and snow plowing business. Andrea made him a planner, business cards and she did his billing for him. She also gave him a book about growing your lawn care business. That is what is expected and I think he will do it. Andrea expected them to be ready to care of themselves by 18.

And you know something, this really makes me want to puke! 

Sorry, I am about to blow my top.  Not at the person I quoted but at the Millses.

Dreadful parenting. 

Asher is a 15 year-old child and Andrea (and Tom by default) have limited all his options for him.  He is shy.  He obviously lacks social skills.  And his homeschooling pretty much sucks.

Andrea decided he should do lawn care.  I doubt she ever asked him what he wanted to do.   And Andrea gave him business cards and a stupid book on growing a lawn care business. 

BFD!

Wake up and smell the coffee.  Asher has been very badly educated.  He has spent a huge amount of his childhood already caring for his siblings.  And the caregiving burden on him got even greater when Andrea died, because Tom seems to have the parenting skills of the average flea.

And Andrea and Tom (by default) decided the kids all should be self-supporting at age 18.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with having a lawn care business, although that needs the business skills you have to develop for yourself, not rely on Mom.  And there is nothing wrong with young Thomas wanting to work his way up in a grocery store.  If that is what these kids actually want.

They are so young.  And Andrea (and Tom by default) have so limited their options.  I ask, did you know what career you wanted at 15?  I didn't, but at least I was being decently educated and had options.

And now Tom seems to be saying that his children should support his sorry ass in old age.  Get real, Tom.  Your children are not your future caregivers.  Especially when your parenting skills are patently so f'ing inadequate.   They owe you nothing.

Really, what does Asher want to do with his life?  Has anyone ever asked him?  I doubt it.

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8 hours ago, Tekas_76 said:

I was thinking the same about the pantry. It could be a good room for two of the boys, in two rooms, now that Thomas is considering to move out. Finally he'll be free at last...

I was curious about the size of the pantry so went to watch Andrea's tour video. She says it's about 8f x 13f.
Considering the pantry is not on the same level as the kitchen it is very doable to turn it back into a bedroom (she says it originated as a spare bedroom)
It would be very easy to build a pantry room (eg, we converted a small garage shed) if they want to continue with bulk supplies. Rodent and weather proofing are easy enough. On a kitchen tour video, she showed a few empty cupboards in the kitchen which could be utilised for more of the snacks or kind-of-regular needs.

 

The video showing the business - about 13f x 23f
 

 

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6 hours ago, SIngingforsupper said:

Asher will end up supporting a family on his lawn and snow plowing business. Andrea made him a planner, business cards and she did his billing for him. She also gave him a book about growing your lawn care business. That is what is expected and I think he will do it. Andrea expected them to be ready to care of themselves by 18. I can't remember which video it was in but I shocked  when she said that.I was also shocked when she said in the same video that the kids will take care of them in their old age because she and Tom provided for them and for that reason they have no retirement savings. So Mills kids get to work and be ready to care for Dad in his old age. Hopefully better than he cared for Knuckles in his!

Andrea really had it all planned out for Asher. In this video, she explains that she got the idea from a YouTuber Dad of many who has his own gardening business, how busy he is, and how she hopes this will be Asher someday.

 

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