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Coconut Flan

Andrea Mills 2: Watching Tom Appear to Lose His Mind

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Saywha?

I learned ABOUT communism and about ten other social structures in college....and I’m not a communist now because I have a brain and free will. Geez. College campuses are a some of the most free thinking places in America!  Who would actively without their kids from opportunity. I’m pulling out my hair on the shear ignorance and lack of world education these people will get. 

 

Also, maybe if Tom and Rachel read these they can address the “shootings and terorism are fake and a plot by the government” thang, because I never knew that since watching them and I think a LOT of the current viewers would love to know so they can opt out. 

 

Thats, like deal breaker kinda thing. 

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SilverBeach
On 10/19/2019 at 3:32 PM, thoughtful said:

It is not as interesting. Even haters have variety, and I find discussing the details more interesting than just dismissing them all as one monolithic lump.

I didn't do this. My comments have been directed towards haters of Mills-level extremity. They are all dangerous regardless of the details. Believe me, I dismiss none of them because many are armed to the teeth and have no use for me at all. 

Of course there are differences, look at the fundies we talk about on FJ. There would be no need for multiple threads if they were all carbon copies. However, there are some fundamental similarities, no pun intended.  

Look, I'm an analytical person who loves to delve deeply into topics that interest me. I am not advocating superficial judgement of anyone. However, the climate of the last three years in the US has become increasingly hostile and dangerous for people like me (black people) and have emboldened extremists who feel Trump has given them a license to go public. So, at present I'm less likely to give haters of any flavor the benefit of a doubt.  I do not feel safe in this country at this time, and I will remain skeptical of all extreme haters regardless of the specific nature of their hate.

1 hour ago, Saywha? said:

I learned ABOUT communism and about ten other social structures in college

My undergraduate courses were 40 years ago, so I probably did too, but I think we may have also touched on it in high school. Learning about something hardly means you are going to start believing in it or practicing it. Anti-intellectualism is never good, it leads to non-critical thinking and is actually more dangerous than exposure. 

Edited by SilverBeach
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Nothankyou

It was heartbreaking to hear that Asher broke down over the crib being thrown in a burn pit. I wish Tom and the kids spent more time with each other trying to talk and process what has happened.  The kids can hear that their dad thinks they're fine. And can see that he is not. It feels like many of them are masking their own emotions to be strong for their dad because their only parent is not doing well. This is a time they should all be leaning on each other. I feel bad for this family.  I really wish Tom would make better decisions right now. His thinking seems so frantic and sometimes it does feel like he's seeing how much more he can get from people. It's really weird when he does things like shares his Christmas list that he made for Andrea to the YouTube people (knowing full well that he'll get sent everything) but when asked what the kids want for Christmas he says "The same thing they want every year, nothing." Why is he allowed to have Christmas lists and not the kids? 

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Pleiades_06
7 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Unfortunately, this is where living in a very rural place hurts them. I doubt very much that the schools there have a school psychologist, proper. Rather, they must likely have guidance counselors, who serve the whole school. I doubt there's time for therapy built in to their schedules.

 

I’ve always felt many of the decisions this family has made were motivated by poverty and pride

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Pleiades_06
7 hours ago, formergothardite said:

It is truly wise to be supportive of unhealthy behavior and the poor treatment of children? These children are being straight up neglected and he is being surrounded by "Youtube people" who tell him it is okay to treat his children this way. That isn't okay. Sometimes people need to hear that their coping methods aren't healthy and in this case is leading to the suffering of children. 

When we first started discussing this family, Tom had a public post on FB about how college would teach children communism and that is why college educated people tended to not support Trump. So I suspect they didn't want their children to have a career that would include college because their children would then be exposed to ideas outside of Tom and Andrea's insane teachings. 

JFC-he is a LOON. What kind of weird system of logic does this guy have?? He also has a video explaining that they allow the kids to play violent video games because games don’t make people violent. (I personally agree with this, although I think this should be restricted according to age/personality). He picks and chooses what the kids should be exposed to based on what he likes.

As I mentioned in another post, they seem too proud to admit that their system might be flawed. He gives lip service to “not everyone needs to agree with me” but the basic idea is they know everything about what’s right for their kids and no expert doctor/teacher/pastor knows better than they do. It’s pure hubris 

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luv2laugh

Tom already said that he wants to remarry in one of the live-streams a few days ago. He said he wants the kids to have a mom but “not replace Andrea”.

I think that Tom doesn’t know how to parent the kids and wants someone to swoop in and rescue him.

Edited by luv2laugh

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Jana814
8 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Tom already said that he wants to remarry in one of the live-streams a few days ago. He said he wants the kids to have a mom but “not replace Andrea”.

I think that Tom doesn’t know how to parent the kids and wants someone to swoop in and rescue him.

I’m sure that is what he wants. If the woman is young enough she might want to have more kids. 

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AverageJane
37 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I’m sure that is what he wants. If the woman is young enough she might want to have more kids. 

He should have saved the crib. 

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DesertStarz
58 minutes ago, AverageJane said:

He should have saved the crib. 

Why bother?  I'm sure his plethora of leg humpers will supply what he doesn't ask for.

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thoughtful
6 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

If you are not in one of the targeted groups, it is easier to have this viewpoint. I am in a targeted group and do not feel safe with any extreme haters of anybody. Not everyone explicitly mentions all the groups they hate, and I'm not going to assume I'm some type of exception to their extreme views.

I am a member of several targeted groups, and of course I agree that it would be foolish to assume that I am an exception and safe around someone who, at first glance, only appears to be a bigot about other groups.

If I saw a man with Confederate flag tattoos coming my way, I would not think "Whew! No swastikas, no 'make me a sammich, woman' tee shirt, no 'atheists burn in hell' pin or MAGA hat -- I'm safe because he probably just hates brown people. I think I'll go tell this guy I'm a working Jewish atheist feminist who is in favor of stricter gun laws and hates Trump, and share our love of Randy Rainbow parodies. He can already see I'm old and wrinkled, but I'm sure he doesn't expect all women to be glamorous just for him, and wants to engage intellectually with every woman he meets!"

In real life, for my safety, I would stay the fuck out of his way! I know there is a likelihood that he also hates everything I am. Besides protecting myself, I also wouldn't want to have anything to do with anyone who is racist.

Maybe I'm pre-judging and stereotyping, maybe he's changed his ways and just can't afford to get the tattoos removed, but I'm taking no chances.

 

5 hours ago, SilverBeach said:
On 10/19/2019 at 4:32 PM, thoughtful said:

It is not as interesting. Even haters have variety, and I find discussing the details more interesting than just dismissing them all as one monolithic lump.

I didn't do this. My comments have been directed towards haters of Mills-level extremity. They are all dangerous regardless of the details. Believe me, I dismiss none of them because many are armed to the teeth and have no use for me at all. 

For the record, I was not accusing you of dismissing them as one monolithic lump. I was talking about why I like to be careful to stick to the facts we are sure we know. I said that awkwardly, and I apologize for making it seem like I was saying you were doing that.

I dismiss none of them either. I understand that the "crisis actor" shit, besides being offensive on the face of it, is often a dog-whistle for lots of other hateful, dangerous opinions and behaviors.

The recent flair-up of racism (again!) in this county has had me torn between rage and despair. We're the same age, so we've seen the same cycles of this vicious scourge, over and over.

I may not get what it's like to be you at a gut level, because (again, other than female, and now old) I don't walk around with the aspect of my existence that may make haters dangerous to me on constant display. But I see it, and I care, and I would never dismiss the dangers you face.

If Tom and people of his ilk were in a room with you and me, I would be very concerned about our safety. Hell, when people like Tom go to vote, I'm concerned for our safety. And I recognize that people like that are more dangerous to you than to me.

Really, we are on the same side when it comes to this matter. I am not dismissive of the danger.

But (yeah, there's a "but") it is not dismissive of the danger to ask for details when discussing this family online. I am not sending a gay friend over to their house to ask Tom if he also hates gay people. I'm not asking you to go to his house alone, confiscate all of the ACE materials because they are racist, and then see how he reacts. We're not picketing his beloved Walmart because they sell guns. It is not an immediate danger to any of us to ask, online, "so, who else do they hate, and how do we know for sure?"

Myths take hold fast online, and I like it when people on FJ try to stick to things they know for sure, even policing themselves sometimes (someone recently came back to the JRod thread, for example, to point out that the possibility that Jill's "for David's eyes only" bathing suit was a bikini was a joke she posted, because people were already talking about "Jill's bikini" it as if it was fact).

There are a few people on FJ who patiently remind us that something was not proven, it just grew up out of FJ myth or kidding around, or who write "wait, do we know that for sure?" posts. I am always grateful for that.

I am open to the possibility that Tom is, and Andrea was, hateful about lots of groups they didn't specifically target in their posts and videos. I am not dismissive of the possible dangers presented by any of the people we discuss.

Do I think it's possible, even likely, that Tom is (and Andrea was) racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, and on and on?

Sure. 

Really.

Honest, I do.

I just wanted to know if anybody knew any details . . . :my_blush:

 

Edited by thoughtful
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Petronella
7 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

As I mentioned in another post, they seem too proud to admit that their system might be flawed. He gives lip service to “not everyone needs to agree with me” but the basic idea is they know everything about what’s right for their kids and no expert doctor/teacher/pastor knows better than they do. It’s pure hubris 

Heck—he doesn’t even have to admit that the system is flawed. How about: “this system doesn’t work anymore because its main component is gone.” It’s the refusal to acknowledge that things are DIFFERENT now that really gets me.

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under siege
5 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Tom already said that he wants to remarry in one of the live-streams a few days ago. He said he wants the kids to have a mom but “not replace Andrea”.

I think that Tom doesn’t know how to parent the kids and wants someone to swoop in and rescue him.

He has mentioned it a few times now. It started with the 'Andrea knew I would remarry' conversation he had with her a month prior to her passing. He received a lot of 'she will be a lucky lady' kind of responses so that gave him further permission to talk about it more.
I don't think it's a bad thing a widow/er to remarry. What I do think is a bad thing is to talk about it to his 'youtube people' repeatedly so soon after his beloved wife's passing. Tom's fishing for a replacement for Andrea because he absolutely can't deal with the life she had created.
Tom will need to remarry. He can't do it alone because he can't. His way of life means that he has never had to be a parent. He's never had to focus on anyone but himself. Andrea did practically everything to do with the kids besides 'Magic night' and driving to various family outing. Now having to deal with 9 young humans, half of which he had to be convinced on bringing into the world, it way too much for him to handle.

 

34 minutes ago, Petronella said:

Heck—he doesn’t even have to admit that the system is flawed. How about: “this system doesn’t work anymore because its main component is gone.” It’s the refusal to acknowledge that things are DIFFERENT now that really gets me.

I agree.  Andrea was the system. There is no way it can continue on longterm without her.
It would be very sad if her replacement ever felt she had to try and continue with Andrea's system because it wouldn't be a healthy situation. A shadow of what was.  A fresh start, finding new ways to do things, new traditions etc would be much healthier and more realistic. For sure, keep some of the current things that are practical to keep and in that way, it's still keeping Andrea there in spirit but not trudging on further into quicksand because, without her, the system can not continue as is.

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Petronella
46 minutes ago, under siege said:

He has mentioned it a few times now. It started with the 'Andrea knew I would remarry' conversation he had with her a month prior to her passing. He received a lot of 'she will be a lucky lady' kind of responses so that gave him further permission to talk about it more.
I don't think it's a bad thing a widow/er to remarry. What I do think is a bad thing is to talk about it to his 'youtube people' repeatedly so soon after his beloved wife's passing. Tom's fishing for a replacement for Andrea because he absolutely can't deal with the life she had created.
Tom will need to remarry. He can't do it alone because he can't. His way of life means that he has never had to be a parent. He's never had to focus on anyone but himself. Andrea did practically everything to do with the kids besides 'Magic night' and driving to various family outing. Now having to deal with 9 young humans, half of which he had to be convinced on bringing into the world, it way too much for him to handle.

I can understand loneliness making someone long to fall in love again. I can understand hoping to one day find a new partner/best friend/lover.

I can also understand desperately needing help with managing the household. Were it me, some of that Go Fund Me would be going towards a cleaning service, tutors for the kids, sitters/nanny for the littles, while figuring out how to cope long-term, figuring out what this new life will have to look like. (And counseling! I forgot counseling!)

What I DON’T understand is seeing the chaos, knowing that help is needed, and instead of envisioning, say, a childcare professional, envisioning this being filled by a new WIFE. The thought process of “Huh, the kids need help with their schoolwork. I know! I’ll get a new lover!” is just MESSED UP.

If I ever were to date/marry a man with children, I’d sure want him to love me for me, not for the services I provide.

 

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ViolaSebastian

Having fairly recently been through college via my “second try,” the only people who I met who could be described as “communists” were students from China—who, it should be noted, were fairly vocal against communism. However, I did meet a fair amount of socialists. But there’s a substantial difference between socialists and communists. But you learn that if you go to college or have some sort of intellectual curiosity. Also, to my knowledge, no single political science or sociology class has ever turned anyone into a communist. 🤔

I’ll not belabor the point, but I imagine they Tom really means that he’s concerned his child will become a leftist of any flavor. 

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louannems
11 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I’m sure that is what he wants. If the woman is young enough she might want to have more kids. 

I know this is a horrible thing to admit, but when Andrea died, I secretly thought to myself that at least the baby train has stopped in that overcrowded house.

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Giraffe

Hopefully I’m completely wrong about this, but I picture him remarrying and insisting “she’s your mom now. See? You’re completely fine! You have exactly what you need! We all do! We’re doing great!”

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Tired
FecundFundieFundus

Tom isn't a baby collector. I don't think he'll marry anyone who wants more kids. Then again, I thought Amber Portwood had accepted her lack of maternal instinct and wasn't going to have any more kids so clearly I'm a secret optimist.

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SoybeanQueen
On 10/14/2019 at 6:44 AM, Koala said:

Get a grip, Tom.  You have no excuse to neglect those children. 

I agree, the dad excuse is lame and pathetic. My husband is an equal partner in caring for our kids. We have a large family, as well. If something happened to me tomorrow, God forbid, my husband would handle everything. He would not put a baby to bed with half a sandwich, alone.

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Jana814
1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Hopefully I’m completely wrong about this, but I picture him remarrying and insisting “she’s your mom now. See? You’re completely fine! You have exactly what you need! We all do! We’re doing great!”

I can totally see him doing something like this. 

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can'tstopwatching

Hello, new here but been reading for quite a while. I wanted to point out how on Tom's most recent live stream (10/20) the chat on the screen gets blurred out toward the very end, and when it comes back people are asking if there was a troll, saying that someone said something about Papa Gary, and others were saying the comment should be deleted because it upset them. Rachel Day said it was a troll and Tom went silent and pretended not to see. I assume it was something about the registry that ol' Gary is on.... scary what they hide from their devoted followers in fear that the truth would make some people leave.

Also he mentions this thread some more in that live stream, someone's been googling again.

ed: Also makes me wonder if Rachel knows? Surely she must??

Edited by can'tstopwatching

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Zebedee

Ha, I went to a Catholic school for 7 years, and didn't become Catholic. Or religious at all. So, I'm sure it is possible to study at high school/college without becoming a Communist. (Though whether he actually knows/acknowledges what Communism is compared to, say, Liberalism or Socialism I strongly doubt. He probably gets all his "news" from Fox and whatever else is the US equivalent of the Daily Mail, and believes that Bernie & AOC are Communists, and Elizabeth Warren some kind of Radical Hard Left...)

These adult men who pretend they can't cook/clean/look after their own damn kids piss me off so much. It's not like women are born knowing how to do these things, and, given how many men *do* manage to do them, it isn't like penis==incompetent. And yet, these Fundie men, who can't even manage to pick up their own dirty socks and pants, let alone see a shoulder without being seized by lust, think they should be in charge of *everyone* and *everything*. Frankly, if most/all men were as useless and dangerous as Fundie men claim, it'd be a good argument for keeping them chained to the kitchen sink.

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Earth Mama

I'd love to see Tom send the kids to a local Christian school (the one Andrea attended as a child).  I think it would be good for them to have outside friends and to have their minds occupied.  Right now they're in the house 24/7 and that is NOT good for them mentally & emotionally.  I'd also like to see the little children (not old enough for school) to go to a Christian daycare for half a day 3-5 days/week.  I think that would be wonderful for them as well.  Most of the time daycare places employ women and that way the little ones can have a "mother figure" in their lives for part of the day.  And Tom could work without worrying about who is caring for the kids.  It would be a win-win situation, if you ask me.

What bothered me, more than anything he's ever said, is that now their family is going to "just be ordinary" (or perhaps he  used the word "average", I don't remember)... without Andrea &  her influence.  He considered his family to be extraordinary before.  I would hope his primary concerns would be more about how his family is coping... rather than how they're appearing to the internet community.

 

18 hours ago, Nothankyou said:

It was heartbreaking to hear that Asher broke down over the crib being thrown in a burn pit. 

I can't believe Tom was so insensitive as to throw the crib into a burn pit, to begin with, especially in front of the kids.  Jeez!  This guy is going to ruin these kids forever, by his ill-informed behavior, if he's not careful.  NO kids are "ok" after their mom dies.  I really don't know how he'd know if they're ok or not, between his work and time spent on the computer and all that.  He has said that the kids "have each other" and he has "nobody".  What.... the kids are supposed to counsel each other during this?  

 

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SilverBeach
13 hours ago, thoughtful said:

I just wanted to know if anybody knew any details . . . :my_blush:

And that is cool.

13 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Myths take hold fast online, and I like it when people on FJ try to stick to things they know for sure

I get this. No one wants another Razing Ruth situation.  Endless pregnancy speculation gets tiresome. I too believe in facts. I don't think this situation would have resulted in any myths, as the Mills have  documented evidence of their fringe beliefs, although Tom is trying to scrub the ugliness.

13 hours ago, thoughtful said:

It is not an immediate danger to any of us to ask, online, "so, who else do they hate, and how do we know for sure?"

I understand that this poses no immediate danger, I was just explaining why I didn't need any more information to be sure that I don't like these people and that they are scary. Sometimes people who hate staunchly deny that they do. Look no further than the so-called POTUS.  Actions speak way louder than words, as far as I'm concerned. 

15 minutes ago, Earth Mama said:

He has said that the kids "have each other" and he has "nobody". 

This is so fucked up.

Edited by SilverBeach

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Justsum1twothree
1 hour ago, can'tstopwatching said:

Hello, new here but been reading for quite a while. I wanted to point out how on Tom's most recent live stream (10/20) the chat on the screen gets blurred out toward the very end, and when it comes back people are asking if there was a troll, saying that someone said something about Papa Gary, and others were saying the comment should be deleted because it upset them. Rachel Day said it was a troll and Tom went silent and pretended not to see. I assume it was something about the registry that ol' Gary is on.... scary what they hide from their devoted followers in fear that the truth would make some people leave.

Also he mentions this thread some more in that live stream, someone's been googling again.

ed: Also makes me wonder if Rachel knows? Surely she must??

I saw the livestream as it was happening and you’re right. Someone mentioned that Papa Gary was a registered sex offender and suggested people to look him up for own their self. Good! Rachel is a sheep as are most of Tom’s followers. Where was super fan Rachel when Andrea was alive? I never heard Andrea mention her. Hopefully some of them look up Papa Gary and question Tom. Very disturbing to knowingly have your children around a pedo. I wonder why Tom thinks that’s okay? 

 

I can see Tom marrying a younger Asian woman for some reason in the next few years (tops).

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Waffle Time
Palimpsest
On 10/19/2019 at 8:16 PM, Renee said:

 We have Mental Health Day, yet someone who clearly needs support, and is getting it by talking to YouTube people, and here we are criticizing and judging him for it. 

Why bless your heart, and welcome to Free Jinger.  That is sort of what we do here.  Sometimes more compassionately than others.

Also some of us are mental health providers and some of us are or have been consumers at some point in our lives.  Frankly, talking to youtube people is no substitute for professional counseling.  Most people and children in the Mills family's situation would benefit from professional counseling, and accepting professional counseling is nothing to be ashamed of at all. 

Not only that, the youtube people are unreliable.  Tom apparently needs four moderators to control for "trolls and haters" to say nothing of well meaning people asking awkward questions.  I also worry about stalkers, as some of his youtube followers, even the ones he likes, seem to have very lax boundaries.  In a short live-stream the other day Tom defended himself from some of his own "fans" complaints.  Apparently many were shocked that he said he might remarry.  Others are apparently unhappy that the channel has changed.  As it would change.

I am very concerned that Tom is not accessing mental health services both for himself and for his children.  And you know something, perhaps some of those youtubes could and should suggest it to him.

Moorcroft, WY is not actually in the middle of nowhere.  It is only a 30 minute drive to Gillette, a city of 30,000, and the home of the Super Walmart where they shop frequently.  It also has a Hospice program.  Even though Andrea was a Hospice patient for only a few hours, Tom could access grief counseling services through Hospice or get referrals to faith based counseling there.  

Quote

Does Hospice Provide Help To Families After The Patient Dies?

Hospice provides grief/bereavement support to the family and loved ones for 13 months after the death of the patient. This support is individually tailored for each family’s needs and can include letters, printed materials, phone calls, grief support and support groups if necessary. If additional grief counseling is needed referrals can be made to community resources.

https://www.cchwyo.org/Services/CCH/Home_Health_and_Hospice/Hospice.aspx

But apparently he won't accept counseling for himself and the kids.  They are fine and Tom has youtube.   

3 hours ago, can'tstopwatching said:

Hello, new here but been reading for quite a while. I wanted to point out how on Tom's most recent live stream (10/20) the chat on the screen gets blurred out toward the very end, and when it comes back people are asking if there was a troll, saying that someone said something about Papa Gary, and others were saying the comment should be deleted because it upset them. Rachel Day said it was a troll and Tom went silent and pretended not to see. I assume it was something about the registry that ol' Gary is on.... scary what they hide from their devoted followers in fear that the truth would make some people leave.

Also he mentions this thread some more in that live stream, someone's been googling again.

ed: Also makes me wonder if Rachel knows? Surely she must??

Thanks. It is astonishing how when we get a public mention from someone we have been discussing we get lots of new readers and many new members as old readers delurk.  Welcome to everyone who doesn't chastise us for talking about stuff people make public as their "ministries." :)

What did he say about the evil snark site this time?   I did scoot to the end, but must have missed it.  Tom did shut it down fast when Papa Gary came up.  I tuned in just as he was flattering himself that he was filming "God's Reality Show."  

I can't bear to listen to his long rambling live-streams and he seems to be churning them out almost daily.  I truly don't think it is healthy.  

Edited by Palimpsest

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