Andrea Mills 2: Watching Tom Appear to Lose His Mind

[Renee]

7 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

He says that "the haters" don't bother him, but honestly it's very clear to me that it is. I just don't think I'm comfortable doing the Livestream recaps anymore, particularly because I feel as though I'm causing him extra pain and I don't want that for him or the kids right now. 

I agree, he is in pain, and admits to struggling. Yet he's there, with the kids, hanging in there. He says he has to figure things out. He doesn't know how to do it all. But he's trying. We have Mental Health Day, yet someone who clearly needs support, and is getting it by talking to YouTube people, and here we are criticizing and judging him for it. 

I see flaws too, and certainly live differently from the Mills, but I'm just not comfortable at the thought of causing more pain.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

20 minutes ago, Renee said:

We have Mental Health Day, yet someone who clearly needs support, and is getting it by talking to YouTube people, and here we are criticizing and judging him for it. 

There's a difference between support that really helps, and can encourage meaningful change, and "support" that just helps keep a person stuck where they are. A real counselor or therapist encourages a person to stretch and grow, even when it hurts. YouTube People are just enabling Tom to stay the same.

I really hope that something changes for the better for the Mills family, even if that change is painful. The way they're stuck right now breaks my heart, and I'm not even that familiar with them.

[FecundFundieFundus]

Grifting is not the same as therapy or social services. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

Tom does look rough in the latest video. I speculate it could be a combination of the loss of the dog and being up all night Googling himself and reading through FJ posts.  I'd like to think reading here might wake him up to his current actions but more likely he is just pissed that we are daring to question him.
 

[under siege]

You don't just stumble across a gossip site. Even if one was to 'accidentally' do that, you would still have to search for your name or the thread about your spouse/family member.
If what he is reading isn't affecting Tom all that much, he wouldn't mention it (although it's a great way for the ego to be stroked a bit more) It would be nice to think that reading comments that are not all 'haul Tom, father of the year' would hopefully get him to do a bit of soul searching and become the father his kids need him to be. Sadly highly doubtful though. He's so used to have been a doted on husband and now admired man/father by his 'youtube people' that it probably was a shock to read the negative/harsh words.  Most of which are factual as opposed to just negative hateful opinions.
If what he was reading about Andrea was false then why would that video disappear?
Yes, I'm harsh when it comes to Tom. I don't hate him for the sake of hating him, I find very little to like about him. That hasn't changed because of Andrea's death. Maybe a little harsher now because of what I'm seeing and hearing from Tom himself.

If you are reading this Tom (hello) or Rachel (yes, I still consider your activeness highly questionable) please know that I whatever I have posted here, I would say directly to you if ever we were to meet.  There's not a comment of mine here that I would back-peddle from.

Please note: this is not a post about being defensive. I stand by my words.  I truly hope Tom reads this and that he understands that not everyone is going to like you. Not everyone has to. Also, not everyone has to share the same views but if you share those views on social media, that's opening yourself up for criticism and opinion. Further to that, making money (direct opposite to your late wife's stand) opens that up all the more. 
This is the time to focus on your kids until they are as close to 'fine' as they can be going forward. Your 'youtube people' are not the answer to the void.

Edited October 20, 2019 by under siege

[Curious]

If you google Tom Mills we are nowhere to be found in the first few pages.  However, if you google Andrea MIlls the previous thread is the last item on the first page.  FundieSnark reddit also shows up on the first page.

I was thinking he might have a google alert set, but I don't think that is the case based on the search results.

I bet someone tipped him off rather than him finding us "organically"

[under siege]

13 hours ago, formergothardite said:

They are die-hard Trump supporters, the curriculum they use is filled with racism. My memory of looking at Tom's page when more of his stuff was public is that they are average fundies who also worship Trump and buy into crazy conspiracy theories. 

This may sound absolutely hateful but I always found Andrea's friend Hadria the token friend to prove they are not a racist family. This friend has the most adorable child, I loved seeing her in Andrea's vlogs but due to the curriculum and her views on a certain president and certain groups, it just always felt like such a contradiction. I'd love to believe it was a genuine and loving friendship from both sides but Andrea's more honest*/controversial videos always had me doubting. I cried when I read Hadria's post of Andrea's passing. "Both she and her husband were my lifeline during my darkest hour of need. I'm proud to have known her as my friend and happy that I had the chance to tell her how much I deeply admired her for being an extraordinary wife, mother, and friend. ❤️?❤️ I'll miss you and our insightful discussions during random visits to your house. ❤️?❤️"

*Honest as in showing true character not honest as in 'facts' used in those videos

Edited October 20, 2019 by under siege

[jozina]

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Curious said:

Tom should get counseling, but if he doesn't want to that's on him.  The kids, however, SHOULD be getting therapy regardless of whether Tom does or not.  He should be able to separate his needs from the kids and realize they need help.   I still find it really odd that he is devastated and grieving, but thinks the children who lost their mother are "fine."

I think it fits very well with how they'd parented the kids to date actually.  Their individual needs and wants seem to have often been cast aside to fit into their parents' ideology or desires.  The kids' grieving and being heartbroken would be terribly inconvenient and sad.  Tom's sad and wants to focus on his own grief, not the children's.  After years of rationalizing away them not caring it'd be a pretty comfortable emotional route to take.

The Paris video of Andrea's was hideous.  I agree with you formergothardite that Andrea seemed to enjoy them in a way that tipped it from a run of the mill conspiracy theory believer into genuinely frightening for me.

[louannems]

22 hours ago, someone donated $774 to Tom's GoFundMe.  I can't believe people are still donating.  That's the biggest donation yet.

[moreorlessnu]

One positive piece of information from last night's live stream; Tom mentioned that Hannah is now walking. Andrea had previously said that all of her children were late walkers and none of the children walked before 12 months. 

As mentioned further upstream by others, I hope the people who are donating are not doing so to the point where they are financially doing without to support the Mills family. 

When Andrea was alive, people would send gifts to the children on their birthdays. I always got the feeling that Andrea wasn't 100% comfortable, either with receiving the gifts, or sharing what had been sent on the videos; she would edit the videos to spend very little time on gifts that were sent by YouTube viewers. For Eden's birthday, someone sent a box full of gifts for her. Between the items in the box, and the shipping (clearly the shipper had wrapped and shipped the items herself/himself), I figured the person had to have spent $100-$200. I hope that that person has plenty of money to spend on such a gift, and simply enjoyed shopping and wrapping for a little girl. 

[luv2laugh]

I think it's gross that some women are obviously into Tom and are openly flirting with him. His wife and mother of his kids just died. It has gone beyond support and is now venturing into flirty "fan girling".

Tom is getting a lot of criticism. The problem is that Tom has NEVER parented all of these kids. Andrea did. Andrea did all of the parenting along with help from the older kids. Tom only focused on his business. Andrea set him up to not know how to parent the kids. Tom is now left attempting to learn how to parent all of these kids. How can people expect Tom to do a "good job"?  The kids should be put in a public school and Tom should be hiring babysitters and/or help from church people. The kids could receive counseling from the school psychologist in the public school as well.

I hope Tom realizes that putting the kids in a public school is the best solution for all.

Also, I don't think Tom could afford sending all of the kids to a therapist. I believe it is free for the kids to receive therapy at a public school from the school psychologists.

Edited October 20, 2019 by luv2laugh

[Saywha?]

I think public school would be awesome for these kids. But respect he doesn’t want to. I recall a video where Andrea said it wasn’t the schools job to raise their kids. She has a twisted view of what a school views their role as. It’s to educate. I always feel sorry for kids who don’t get to go to school. It’s not raising your kids. School is only like only like 200 days a year and part of day. You can still teach manners, values, life skills like every other parent on summer break, Christmas break, weekends and a slew of other time off. I always feel sorry for kids who don’t get that opportunity to go to school. 

 

Most sad was a video video where she said she wanted the kids to get a “basic” job or some other word for it. Why not want your kids to get ANY job they’d love: whether it be a store clerk or a lawyer or a plumber or a doctor!! Why not ANY job. Said they have been encouraged to think in a all sphere of what they want for them. 

[ViolaSebastian]

27 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Also, I don't think Tom could afford sending all of the kids to a therapist. I believe it is free for the kids to receive therapy at a public school from the school psychologists.

Unfortunately, this is where living in a very rural place hurts them. I doubt very much that the schools there have a school psychologist, proper. Rather, they must likely have guidance counselors, who serve the whole school. I doubt there's time for therapy built in to their schedules.

 

[formergothardite]

17 hours ago, Renee said:

We have Mental Health Day, yet someone who clearly needs support, and is getting it by talking to YouTube people, and here we are criticizing and judging him for it. 

It is truly wise to be supportive of unhealthy behavior and the poor treatment of children? These children are being straight up neglected and he is being surrounded by "Youtube people" who tell him it is okay to treat his children this way. That isn't okay. Sometimes people need to hear that their coping methods aren't healthy and in this case is leading to the suffering of children. 

16 minutes ago, Saywha? said:

Most sad was a video video where she said she wanted the kids to get a “basic” job or some other word for it. Why not want your kids to get ANY job they’d love: whether it be a store clerk or a lawyer or a plumber or a doctor!! Why not ANY job. Said they have been encouraged to think in a all sphere of what they want for them. 

When we first started discussing this family, Tom had a public post on FB about how college would teach children communism and that is why college educated people tended to not support Trump. So I suspect they didn't want their children to have a career that would include college because their children would then be exposed to ideas outside of Tom and Andrea's insane teachings. 

[Curious]

Even online schooling (now and in the future) would be an improvement.  There are several online sites that offer free curriculum at low to no cost.

My son was having issues with bullying in school so we pulled him out and did one of the online places.  It was the same curriculum he would have been taught in brick and mortar school.  It had a minimal fee to begin, IIRC, but it wasn't unreasonable.  I believe that was the only additional cost.

There are tons of places that have college courses online as well.  Both free and ones you have to pay for.  I've taken both kinds.  I'm starting classes on nutrition soon because I'm tired of playing phone tag with the nutritionist.  I'll learn this stuff on my own faster

[kesmom]

46 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Unfortunately, this is where living in a very rural place hurts them. I doubt very much that the schools there have a school psychologist, proper. Rather, they must likely have guidance counselors, who serve the whole school. I doubt there's time for therapy built in to their schedules.

 

Agreed. Or if they were near a university with a counseling program they could likely get sliding scale services for everyone. A couple of schools near us have play therapy programs for children that are highly recommended. 
 

[Jana814]

2 minutes ago, kesmom said:

Agreed. Or if they were near a university with a counseling program they could likely get sliding scale services for everyone. A couple of schools near us have play therapy programs for children that are highly recommended. 
 

I feel like if their kids went to a regular school their might professionals their who would look out for the kids well being. But I’m sure he doesn’t want outside influences on his kids.  

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, louannems said:

22 hours ago, someone donated $774 to Tom's GoFundMe.  I can't believe people are still donating.  That's the biggest donation yet.

Maybe someone can donate some therapy hours?

[ViolaSebastian]

Here in my state, they just passed a law requiring a mental health provider at every school. Which is a great idea--but then you realize that it's going to be one mental health provider to upwards of 1,500 students. In that scenario, the mental health provider is there for crisis management and referrals and that's about it. Long-term counseling needs to be with someone dedicated to that, with hour-long sessions and the ability to focus on each particular client. 

I really do wish Tom would consider counseling of some type. Even decent faith-based counseling is better than nothing at all. 

[formergothardite]

12 minutes ago, Curious said:

Even online schooling (now and in the future) would be an improvement.  There are several online sites that offer free curriculum at low to no cost.

There really is a lot out there now. I am blanking on the name, but there is one that is a Christian, creationist online homeschool that is pretty self-guided. I doubt they would even consider any of the more mainstream online homeschool programs. 

Judging from Andrea's views on mental health I really don't think Tom will allow the children to receive real therapy or even a Christian therapy. 

[Petronella]

1 hour ago, Saywha? said:

I think public school would be awesome for these kids. But respect he doesn’t want to.

I don't respect at all that he doesn't "want to" send the kids to school. He has no plan for educating these kids himself. He's not planning to be home with them, he hasn't hired tutors, he hasn't joined a home-ed co-op . He doesn't even have a plan for childcare for the baby! He's hoping that various family members combined with the efforts of strangers will step up and do everything Andrea used to, at no inconvenience to him. I don't respect that at all.

[sdjp123]

4 hours ago, Petronella said:

I don't respect at all that he doesn't "want to" send the kids to school. He has no plan for educating these kids himself. He's not planning to be home with them, he hasn't hired tutors, he hasn't joined a home-ed co-op . He doesn't even have a plan for childcare for the baby! He's hoping that various family members combined with the efforts of strangers will step up and do everything Andrea used to, at no inconvenience to him. I don't respect that at all.

I think that it is even worse than this-Tom expects his children to step up and do everything Andrea used to. It's fortunate that some family members have also been helping but I don't know how long term their help will last.  God forbid that Tom actually actively parent his children.

I don't see Tom ever sending the kids to public school unless it becomes a huge inconvenience for him to continue homeschooling. Tom is (as was Andrea) of the ilk that believe public schools are for government indoctrination and that they will teach their children to be dependent on the government. 

Tom is both extremely self centered and patronizing so I don't see him ever following any advice that differs from his views or requires that he put the children's interests before his. Therefore I don't see him bothering to get any counseling for the kids  as that would involve effort on his part for something that doesn't directly benefit him and might make him look bad (in his mind).

Edited October 20, 2019 by sdjp123

[sdjp123]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

There really is a lot out there now. I am blanking on the name, but there is one that is a Christian, creationist online homeschool that is pretty self-guided. I doubt they would even consider any of the more mainstream online homeschool programs. 

Judging from Andrea's views on mental health I really don't think Tom will allow the children to receive real therapy or even a Christian therapy. 

I don't get the impression that Tom has the same views about physical and mental health as Andrea did. My impression is that he let Andrea do her herbal thing with the kids and herself because he is a self centered person who couldn't be bothered to care enough to object since he hadn't seen any serious adverse consequences resulting from her practices. 

I suspect the lack of counseling for the kids is more due to Tom's inability to see beyond his own feelings and needs along with a fear (perhaps not even conscious) that he wouldn't get the same validation and back patting from a counselor as he is getting his Youtube groupies.

[SilverBeach]

On 10/19/2019 at 3:32 PM, thoughtful said:

I'm not going to assume in either direction.

I guess it can come off sounding like I'm "going easy" on people like this. I'm not.  Here are my reasons for not wanting to spout off about the Millses, or anyone else, hating people and things they haven't actually mentioned.

If you are not in one of the targeted groups, it is easier to have this viewpoint. I am in a targeted group and do not feel safe with any extreme haters of anybody. Not everyone explicitly mentions all the groups they hate, and I'm not going to assume I'm some type of exception to their extreme views.  That may not be intelligent for me and my family.

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

When we first started discussing this family, Tom had a public post on FB about how college would teach children communism and that is why college educated people tended to not support Trump.

Lord have mercy. I must have missed my communism course, how did I ever graduate?

[SilverBeach]

On 10/19/2019 at 8:46 AM, formergothardite said:

Andrea was not a good person because she looked at grief stricken families and her reaction was to mock and make fun of them. 

Such an absence of empathy is downright sociopathic-like.

Edited October 21, 2019 by SilverBeach