Dillards 80: Everybody Take a Shot!

[PennySycamore]

@Four is Enough,  I think you hit the nail square on the head with your analysis about the prominence of the Carters/Johnny Cash in the series.  Brava and thank you!

[metheglyn]

2 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Taking pictures of family at funerals is pretty common around here. My mom has 8 brothers and sisters(4 live out state) so when their dad died it was one of the only times in decades that everyone had been together in one place so they took a bunch of group photos. I'm not sure if anyone took pictures of the casket or anything but it wouldn't bother me if they wanted some for their own personal use. The problem with Jill in this instance is she posted the picture on her very public instagram and her caption feels more about HER than about the grieving family. You would think with it being her own cousin who is going through a loss it would make her more sensitive to their grief and want to protect and support their privacy during a very difficult time but apparently not. 

I was at three family funerals in 2 1/2 years and at each of them far flung family came together, so at each we took family pictures back at the church after returning from the cemetery. No caskets/urns were included. Everybody is in mourning dress, but smiling for the camera since it's a bit of a reunion and we were still happy to see each other even if it was for a sad reason. The hardest part to look at is that that in each of the latter two sets pictures one of the people from the previous pic (my uncle and dad) were missing since it was their respective funerals.

This exact reason is why there was an enormous celebration for my eldest aunt and uncle's (who were the first two funerals) 60th wedding anniversary a decade ago. We all strongly suspected we would start losing some of my mom's siblings and in laws soon, and if not they'd soon stop being able to travel easily, and so everyone wanted to get together at the same time for a happy occasion. It was happy, and we did start losing family within the next two years, so it was a very good decision. 

[viii]

17 hours ago, Curious said:

Charcoal is not like chalk where you can hold it and not get totally messy.  No way neither of those kids was playing with charcoal and didn't touch their face, hair, each other.

Their hands are covered in charcoal, and it makes sense to think that in the little time Jill remarked they were alone, they had time to get into the charcoal, smear it around, but not create a complete and utter disaster. 

16 hours ago, theotherelise said:

I don’t think this is huge incident or at all worrying. I do not like that Jill is sharing so many of the boys’ misadventures to her many hundred thousands of followers. If she is staging some of it, that’s of course worse. But no matter what, it’s exploitation.

Isn't this the majority of parents, though? I don't really view it as 'shaming', but more just sharing the realness of having children and what they can all get into it. If Jill painted a perfect happy view of her life and depicted her kids as little angels, people would be on here blasting her as fake. And it's certainly less exploitation than the rest of the Duggar grandchildren who are on television. 

15 hours ago, patsymae said:

Not to pick on you personally but more the whole conversation. I don't see the big deal here. Nothing was on fire, nothing was dangerous, it was just messy. Kids who are having fun get messy and make messes. They figured out that they could use charcoal as chalk--good for them. 

Agreed - I didn't bat an eye at her post. Maybe it's because my sister has twins and I've seen some of the shenanigans they can get into in a matter of seconds, but I didn't find it to be a big deal. And I'm guessing if it had been Spurgeon and Henry, the replies on here would be a lot different, just saying. 

[PennySycamore]

@viii,  I've got this one granddaughter, in particular, whose middle name should be "Shenanigans".  Ot maybe "I Solemnly Swear That I Am Up To No Good".  She's a great kid, but, man, can she find ways to entertain herself!

[Melinda]

14 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

Jill posted a picture of a casket that was from a baby's funeral. She is getting push-back for it. What is with taking pics at funerals? That is something I don't believe I've ever seen. 

We take a lot of pictures at funerals here in Finland. And there is always pictures of the casket too. Some families hire a proffessional photographer for funeral. Nowadays the pictures are also in Instagram #hautajaiset and this is normal to us. 

So for me Jill's picture of a casket was normal thing to post.

[MayMay1123]

unless jill had explicit permission to post that casket picture to the whole f-ing world, she should never have done it. its extremely disrespectful to that baby's parents, imo. no one besides me, my husband, her other grandmother, and my daughter and son-in-law have posted pictures of Grace and i would be livid if someone did. there are no pictures of her funeral. though i considered it ahead of time, there is no way i could have taken any at the time. there are, luckily, many pics of her, both during the brief period she was alive, and the days after. they would be difficult for most, probably, to look at, but are precious to us. jill was wrong, imo- coming from someone who was just in that situation.

[acheronbeach]

33 minutes ago, MayMay1123 said:

unless jill had explicit permission to post that casket picture to the whole f-ing world, she should never have done it. its extremely disrespectful to that baby's parents, imo. no one besides me, my husband, her other grandmother, and my daughter and son-in-law have posted pictures of Grace and i would be livid if someone did. there are no pictures of her funeral. though i considered it ahead of time, there is no way i could have taken any at the time. there are, luckily, many pics of her, both during the brief period she was alive, and the days after. they would be difficult for most, probably, to look at, but are precious to us. jill was wrong, imo- coming from someone who was just in that situation.

Generally, if you ask yourself, "Is this an event where people are at their most vulnerable and in the most pain?" and the answer is yes, it's best to avoid posting social media photos of it.  

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, acheronbeach said:

Generally, if you ask yourself, "Is this an event where people are at their most vulnerable and in the most pain?" and the answer is yes, it's best to avoid posting social media photos of it.  

I can’t imagine sharing someone else’s heartache and tragedy at a very raw and emotional time. She is literally senseless.

[Lillymuffin]

I lost a (very wanted) baby shortly before birth this summer. I took no pictures of her, and allowed no one else to, either. Her father predeceased her, so that wasn’t an issue.

My family thinks I will regret this, but I’m fine with my decision.  I’m going against family tradition here, but I strongly dislike seeing the guest of honor at a viewing or funeral after they’ve been made up. I definitely don’t want to remember my sweet girl that way. 

[Curious]

7 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

If you zoom in on their hands you can see charcoal on their finger tips. Maybe Izzy was the ring leader here and being older he was a little more careful about getting messy? Or not, but not everything a child gets into has to leave a huge mess all over themselves. We went to a farm about a month ago where they had pumpkin painting so I let my 1.5 year old paint even though we didn't have a bib or smock or anything. He miraculously didn't get any paint on his clothes or hair at all, and only a little bit on his fingers and a spot on his cheek. Another time we went out for Italian and forgot a bib and my son was eating spaghetti and again somehow didn't get any on his clothes. Some kids just don't enjoy feeling messy and are a little more careful.

I agree that children can be neat. My son hated anything on his hands and his first word was "ucky" while stretching out his hands, but have you ever worked with charcoal?

It's not a substance that lends itself to neatness.  I'm a grown ass adult and when I work with charcoal (the drawing kind not out of a bbq or fire pit) it's messy as hell.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

48 minutes ago, Melinda said:

We take a lot of pictures at funerals here in Finland. And there is always pictures of the casket too. Some families hire a proffessional photographer for funeral. Nowadays the pictures are also in Instagram #hautajaiset and this is normal to us. 

So for me Jill's picture of a casket was normal thing to post.

I the only photo I have of my son with my maternal grandmother is at my Uncle's funeral. We live 400+ miles away and he was 10ish months old, she died about year later when I was pregnant with #2. 

While I personally find photos of the casket, or the body in the casket strange, others don't. I figure if the immediate family is doing it, then it is fine, if they are not, you do not. 

I was at a visitation last week of a young woman who died after a hard life of drinking and drugs, she'd been in hospice for about 5 months, in liver failure and her corpse was horrific to look at.  I couldn't believe they had an open casket, knowing what I knew of the woman she'd have been pissed. However, her father and children wanted it that way, so that is what they got, since the funeral is for the living not the dead.  There were no photos of the casket or the corpse by anyone there, her sister did post a photo of her holding her sisters hand just before they closed the casket, but it was just the hands. 

11 minutes ago, Lillymuffin said:

I lost a (very wanted) baby shortly before birth this summer. I took no pictures of her, and allowed no one else to, either. Her father predeceased her, so that wasn’t an issue.

My family thinks I will regret this, but I’m fine with my decision.  I’m going against family tradition here, but I strongly dislike seeing the guest of honor at a viewing or funeral after they’ve been made up. I definitely don’t want to remember my sweet girl that way. 

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this.  You get to do what ever you want, and I hope your family allows you do grieve in your own way.  HUGS. 

[viii]

The worst was when my grandpa died. We're hanging out in the basement of the church before the funeral, waiting to go up, and my dad's sister goes upstairs to where everyone is already gathered and leans over the casket to take some selfies with my grandpa's corpse and her ten year old daughter. We were mortified, but she didn't care. She lived miles apart from him, and didn't get a chance to get a lot of photos together in the later years, so she wanted some to remember him by. 

Definitely not what I would have done (I don't even like to look at the photos I have of me and him in the hospital), but everyone grieves differently. I know we heard a lot of comments from our friends though about them sitting there and watching it all go down. ?

[fluffernutter]

16 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Then you should check out Jill Rodrigues ?

Oh my. I can't even imagine. I have perused her on occasion but not in depth. 

[fluffernutter]

4 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

The baby that died was Tyler's little brother, Timothy. I had read comments saying that but didn't want to post until I had found anything saying it was true Rachel's husband posted on Facebook about the funeral and mentioned going to the Duggar house afterwards. My heart goes out to Rachel her husband and Tyler and the rest of the Duggar's to lose three family member's, especially two baby's in a short space of time is horrible.

Can you tell me why Tyler lives with the Duggars if his parents are still in the picture? I never herd what that was about. 

[purple_summer]

I have a short video from my grandmother’s funeral of my aunts and uncles singing. My grandmother loved to hear all of us sing (we’re basically the Von trapps) and that was the last thing they all sang to her in the hospital before she died. I figured it might be a moment we’d want to look back on in the future. 

[Glasgowghirl]

29 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Can you tell me why Tyler lives with the Duggars if his parents are still in the picture? I never herd what that was about. 

Tyler's mother had him young, I think she was 14, she had issues with drugs and her mother had custody before she became unable to take care of him and Michelle and Jim Bob then took guardianship of him. We don't know much more about her other than she is now married and was expecting again. 

[fluffernutter]

15 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Tyler's mother had him young, I think she was 14, she had issues with drugs and her mother had custody before she became unable to take care of him and Michelle and Jim Bob then took guardianship of him. We don't know much more about her other than she is now married and was expecting again. 

Thanks for the info. I wonder why he never went back with her once she got herself healthy?  

[Snarkasarus Rex]

4 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Thanks for the info. I wonder why he never went back with her once she got herself healthy?  

We don’t know the circumstances surrounding Tyler’s birth, but because she had him at such a young age, I suspect it was traumatic for her.  He has also been in either Carolyn’s or the Duggars’ care for most of his life. She may feel that she can’t be the mother he needs.  

[Glasgowghirl]

14 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Thanks for the info. I wonder why he never went back with her once she got herself healthy?  

It's seems like it's only in the past year or so she has got back on track, he is settled where he is and any plans for him to go back with her full time would probably have to be done over time. 

[Palimpsest]

Come on, people.  The advisability of photos at funerals is very culturally defined.  And no-one's culture is intrinsically "better" than another's.

I think there is a family picture including my brother and me after my paternal grandmother's funeral.  It was a good time to get the whole family together (we were very far flung).  And I was 9 at the time and barely knew the deceased.

Many grieving parents are comforted by photos of their deceased children.  Just ask the Victorians and their dead children photos.  Loads of post-mortem mourning pics there.  Don't google for them unless you want to be creeped out.  But your ancestors probably took them too.

Please note:  This does not include JRod, as a complete stranger, inserting her grinning mug and insisting on smiley selfies with the mourners.  Now that is disgusting.

46 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Thanks for the info. I wonder why he never went back with her once she got herself healthy?  

@Glasgowghirl, and @Snarkasarus Rex gave you very good synopses of the situation. 

It is quite possible to be very present in a child's life but not want to disrupt a living situation that is functional for that child.  It is the unselfish thing to do -- to look at the best interests of the child.

That sounded a bit abrupt, but I'm quite allergic to speculation and discussion of people who have not put their lives out for public consumption.  But are gossiped about anyway because of their Duggar connections.  Sad,

My sincere  condolences to Rachel and her husband.  And to Tyler too.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Audrey2]

I had never thought of taking a casket picture until I was at my uncle's funeral last Summer. His greatest passion in life was sales/business. For many years, he worked as a tractor salesman, and his casket bore the logo of the tractor company. While I know this sounds odd too many people it was a very fitting tribute to my uncle. But then I will admit we started a tradition when my dad died that we do funerals a little strangely in my family- my dad loves trains so we brought some of the track and cars from his model railroad and had a train going around a display on a table as well as train cars on the track at the front of the church.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Audrey2

[acheronbeach]

19 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Come on, people.  The advisability of photos at funerals is very culturally defined.  And no-one's culture is intrinsically "better" than another's.

I think there is a family picture including my brother and me after my paternal grandmother's funeral.  It was a good time to get the whole family together (we were very far flung).  And I was 9 at the time and barely knew the deceased.

This isn't a debate about about cultural relativism.  It's not a debate, even, about whether it's okay to take pictures at a funeral.  We wouldn't be discussing this if Jill had taken a photo of the casket and kept it as a memory for her family. 

In modern western culture, it's generally considered poor taste to publicly post on social media about others' moments of suffering.  It smacks of using others' pain to gain attention for yourself online.  Maybe Jill had a heart-to-heart with Tyler's mom about publicly posting a photo of the baby's casket, but she hasn't given any hint that she did.  So it comes across as tasteless and self-absorbed.  

I say this with some compassion toward Jill.  Her family never taught her social skills.  They never valued empathy.  They taught her that repressing emotion and a facade of false happiness is how God wants her to behave.  Is it no wonder she does things like this, where she comes across as lacking any awareness toward others?  

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, acheronbeach said:

This isn't a debate about about cultural relativism.  It's not a debate, even, about whether it's okay to take pictures at a funeral.  We wouldn't be discussing this if Jill had taken a photo of the casket and kept it as a memory for her family. 

In modern western culture, it's generally considered poor taste to publicly post on social media about others' moments of suffering.  It smacks of using others' pain to gain attention for yourself online.  Maybe Jill had a heart-to-heart with Tyler's mom about publicly posting a photo of the baby's casket, but she hasn't given any hint that she did.  So it comes across as tasteless and self-absorbed.  

I say this with some compassion toward Jill.  Her family never taught her social skills.  They never valued empathy.  They taught her that repressing emotion and a facade of false happiness is how God wants her to behave.  Is it no wonder she does things like this, where she comes across as lacking any awareness toward others?  

Exactly, and if we want to go a step further, she did not identify the family who is suffering,..she left that open for people to wonder. And to the bolded part, 100% why most of us are talking about this. 

[mstee]

I checked out the picture on Instagram and saw a comment regarding the speculation that the baby was related to Tyler- a poster commented that she had just checked Tyler’s mom’s page and that her baby was alive and well. I don’t know his mother's name so I can’t verify 100% but just wanted to let you guys know it looks like it’s not Tyler’s half sibling. Whoever lost their child, though, has my sympathy. I can’t imagine the heartbreak. 

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, mstee said:

I checked out the picture on Instagram and saw a comment regarding the speculation that the baby was related to Tyler- a poster commented that she had just checked Tyler’s mom’s page and that her baby was alive and well. I don’t know his mother's name so I can’t verify 100% but just wanted to let you guys know it looks like it’s not Tyler’s half sibling. Whoever lost their child, though, has my sympathy. I can’t imagine the heartbreak. 

I double checked the Facebook account of her husband and it has pictures of them and Tyler and the Duggar's and they mention Timothy's birth and passing. I hope this isn't someone making up a fake Facebook and stirring crap because it looked real or I would not have posted on here.