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Dillards 80: Everybody Take a Shot!


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26 minutes ago, Smee said:

I was talking to a friend yesterday who had twin daughters born at 27 weeks with IUGR. The girls are now 5 and doing well, but she was saying how this week she has appointments with a nutritionist, ENT and paediatrician, then next week sees the ophthalmologist and physiotherapist, along with their regular weekly appointments for speech therapy and OT. The conversation was in the context of how busy she is and how she has to manage the information and advice from all these specialists, but I commented that I can’t imagine what would happen if she’d had those girls in America instead of here. She said they’re called “million dollar babies” for a reason. I really don’t know special needs parents in the USA avoid homelessness.
 

A couple of years ago our stupid conservative government tried to introduce a $10 co-pay for visits to the Dr (it’s worth mentioning here that many doctors don’t “bulk bill” meaning patients already pay and aren’t fully reimbursed by Medicare) and the country was livid. Support for the government plummeted and that policy never made it through the senate. The government leaders were supposedly shocked at what they saw as an overreaction to a small cost, and said a bunch of offensive things about how it’s “the price of one beer at the pub” to imply that the people who would struggle to pay it are all spending their money on alcoholism. But the opposition party was quick to claim it was part of a longer-term plan to chip away at universal healthcare and the co-pay would quickly rise. More to the point, when people skip health care to save money, that affects early detection and treatment rates of serious illnesses and it costs us all a lot more in the long run. I know a lot of Americans would LOVE to only pay $10 to see a doctor, so it’s hard sometimes to not feel like an entitled brat when fighting against this sort of stuff, even if our reasons are logical and good.

Keep fighting the good fight. This is worthwhile. Sure, it could be worse, but do you want your country folk to deal with American-style medical bills? Fuck that noise. There’s nothing entitled about demanding proper health care from one’s government; that’s just being a good and responsible citizen. Every human being deserves and needs heath care. Period.
 

Fuck those insurance ass-lickers trying to make a quick buck off your population’s health issues. That’s bullshit. I’ve been an American for over four decades and I know our system is shit—this isn’t ideal, and no one should mimic us with their policies.

*woke up salty, and stayed salty throughout the day. But seriously. There is nothing worthwhile to replicate from the American health care system. Demand that the population gets their rights: access to medical care as is necessary.

As you mentioned, Our default is clearly the emergency room, where everyone will be treated. When things get that bad, situations are far more expensive and complicated. It’s awful. Please don’t feel entitled by comparing your rights as a citizen to the paltry rights that Americans have. Every human deserves so much more and so much better.

Edited by apandaaries
Ruffles here and there.
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1 hour ago, Smee said:

I was talking to a friend yesterday who had twin daughters born at 27 weeks with IUGR. The girls are now 5 and doing well, but she was saying how this week she has appointments with a nutritionist, ENT and paediatrician, then next week sees the ophthalmologist and physiotherapist, along with their regular weekly appointments for speech therapy and OT. The conversation was in the context of how busy she is and how she has to manage the information and advice from all these specialists, but I commented that I can’t imagine what would happen if she’d had those girls in America instead of here. She said they’re called “million dollar babies” for a reason. I really don’t know special needs parents in the USA avoid homelessness.
 

A couple of years ago our stupid conservative government tried to introduce a $10 co-pay for visits to the Dr (it’s worth mentioning here that many doctors don’t “bulk bill” meaning patients already pay and aren’t fully reimbursed by Medicare) and the country was livid. Support for the government plummeted and that policy never made it through the senate. The government leaders were supposedly shocked at what they saw as an overreaction to a small cost, and said a bunch of offensive things about how it’s “the price of one beer at the pub” to imply that the people who would struggle to pay it are all spending their money on alcoholism. But the opposition party was quick to claim it was part of a longer-term plan to chip away at universal healthcare and the co-pay would quickly rise. More to the point, when people skip health care to save money, that affects early detection and treatment rates of serious illnesses and it costs us all a lot more in the long run. I know a lot of Americans would LOVE to only pay $10 to see a doctor, so it’s hard sometimes to not feel like an entitled brat when fighting against this sort of stuff, even if our reasons are logical and good.

Extremely preterm babies ( like Josie Duggar) and those born with certain medical conditions are automatically eligible for special government supplied insurance. 

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BBC Scotland had a documentary series called Tiny lives that was filmed in the hospital my sister, my cousin's and many friend's have had their children. One of the baby's featured on it was the daughter of someone who used to live in my street, the medical team on the show were amazing and the parent's all spoke about their worries about having babies so prematurely, some family's lived a distance away and had older children to juggle and it must be terrible for parents to have a baby that has had to fight for their life and the added stress of medical bills. 

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When our fourth daughter was born at 26 weeks weighing 900 grams, our employer-provided insurance covered most of the cost.  (This was in 1987.)  We did, however, get a message from the insurance company shortly after Katherine was born that we needed to get pre-approval every three days for her continued hospital stay.  Fortunately for us and maybe not for the insurance company, they also sent a copy to the neonatologists.  One neonatologist wrote a blistering letter to the insurance company that he had no intention of writing them every three days for the months that Katherine would need to be in the NICU.  He was too busy caring for critically ill infants.  It was also harassment to keep contacting us parents.  They never bothered the neonatologists again.

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On 10/21/2019 at 5:54 PM, Giraffe said:

I pay $400 per month and that’s just to have insurance. Anytime I see the doctor I pay over $100. I don’t have any coverage for prescriptions. 

The kicker is those $400 /mo plan your on not only does that but mine had Drs accepting the ins no where near where I live.  If I went to the ER locally it would get covered.  So, I'd wait until I really needed help and go there.  Which is what people without ins do.  Less $400.

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20 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

The kicker is those $400 /mo plan your on not only does that but mine had Drs accepting the ins no where near where I live.  If I went to the ER locally it would get covered.  So, I'd wait until I really needed help and go there.  Which is what people without ins do.  Less $400.

That’s what’s frustrating. Sometimes I wonder if it’s even worth having. This morning I opened a $1200 bill in addition to the premium because when I was seen recently only a percentage was covered. Socialized medicine sounds wonderful to me!

Not insurance related, but some hospitals charge for parking which is ludicrous imo and highly unethical. There’s a non-profit (in Chicago, I think) that for parents parking tabs. A mom if a micro-preemie wondered where the nicu parents were. She discovered the hospital charged $4 for parking and people can’t afford that everyday, especially when their kid is in there for months! And the parents only have 12 weeks of leave if they’re “lucky” (ie, company has over a certain number of employees & the employee has put in 1500 hours in the last year) but that’s unpaid leave!

Edited by Giraffe
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37 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

That’s what’s frustrating. Sometimes I wonder if it’s even worth having. This morning I opened a $1200 bill in addition to the premium because when I was seen recently only a percentage was covered. Socialized medicine sounds wonderful to me!

Not insurance related, but some hospitals charge for parking which is ludicrous imo and highly unethical. There’s a non-profit (in Chicago, I think) that for parents parking tabs. A mom if a micro-preemie wondered where the nicu parents were. She discovered the hospital charged $4 for parking and people can’t afford that everyday, especially when their kid is in there for months! And the parents only have 12 weeks of leave if they’re “lucky” (ie, company has over a certain number of employees & the employee has put in 1500 hours in the last year) but that’s unpaid leave!

It's not right.  None of this, from many angles is not ok. It's morally bankrupt.  Completely.  I love socialized medicine.  My son has extra protection here in California for people in extreme need disability wise.  My son's wheelchair cost $10,000.  The power assist to it ( that little dust buster looking thing makes his wc powered as needed) costs $7,000.  We paid $0. And got it faster by a 1-4 months than people with good insurance through their jobs. 

Edited by Beermeet
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I've had a shit day adn I'm feeling salty so lets rag on the health care system some more shall we? 

I'm really lucky, I'm 21, I'm able to stay on my parents pretty good health insurance from the military. And one argument I see all the time is that "Well what if all wait times were like military wait times" or "Oh my friend in the (insert country with socialized medicine here) Had to wait a billion and six months to be seen I don't want that!".  But here's the thing. The handful of times I've had serious health scares and problems they've gotten me in immediately. The fact is, the people who are waiting months and months are not the people who are desperately ill. A few years ago I had some really insanely severe leg pain, I could hardly walk, even lying down I was crying. I went to the doctor, they got me immediate x-rays and blood tests. I assumed that I'd done something to myself,  I'm very active and at the time had my own dog walking business (in fact this was one of the few times I've had to cancel clients). After reading the x-rays my doctor started with "the good news is there's no mass". It turned out to be a severe vitamin D and Iron deficiency, something wonky with my body doesn't make enough vitamin D on it's own, even spending all day outside, and I don't absorb enough iron from food. But the fact is that argument makes no sense yeah you might have to wait 6 months for a boob job or what ever, but if you have something potentially serious they get you in. 

I would be thrilled if a nationalized system worked like that because in my opinion that's how it should be. The people who need it most get treated first, even if I have to wait. Maybe I'm an anomaly, but I'm okay with that. I don't want mine or anyone else's health care or wait time dependent on how much they pay. 

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People in the US whine about if we get government health care we'll have to wait to see doctors. Umm we already wait to see doctors. It can take 3 or 4 MONTHS to get into see a specialist, is that not waiting? I wound up hospitalized once because I was so sick, but I still couldn't see the specialist for 3 months, my GP sent me directly to the hospital because that was the only work around to see one right away.  Talk about stupid, then to get the follow up after SURGERY with that specialist I still had to wait 3 months, I hadn't canceled my original appointment yet so I was able to use that one to get in 3 weeks sooner, but I still had to see my GP to get my staples removed after 4 weeks. and get an OK to return to work, otherwise I would have been off of work for 16 weeks, and would have lost my job, since FMLA only covers 12 weeks. 

My friend was diagnosed with CANCER, and had to wait 10 WEEKS before finally starting treatment, and because of the type of cancer she had it progressed from stage 2 to stage 3, this could have cost her her life, because she had to wait for insurance approvals to get an extra mammogram, then to get the ultrasound then the biopsy then finally to see an Oncologist, and then the oncologist had to argue for the treatment she wanted to start on her patient. The insurance company was arguing with the doctor about using a CHEAPER treatment, that wasn't advised for her type of breast cancer.

I had another friend whose doctor had to fight for 8 WEEKS to get the go ahead for the treatment for her TERMINAL CANCER, they figure this cost her about 12 to 18 months of her life. because the cancer was spreading so rapidly and the meds she would be taking was to slow the progression to give her more time.  Her kids were 13 & 15 when she died, she was hoping to live as long as she could but really wanted to be here for her daughters 16th birthday, as it was she died 6 weeks before her 14th birthday.  They were also hoping that if the slowed her cancer enough she might live long enough that they could find something to cure her or give her a significant quality of life for several more years, as she was only 48 when she died, that is a long time and the fing insurance company was more concerned for their bottom line than they were with getting her her treatment. 

The conservatives whine about death panels and waiting times for government run health care, but we already have death panels and for profit insurance companies doing the same fucking thing, and people are DYING because of it. And both of my friends had what was considered top tier insurance. 

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10 hours ago, Giraffe said:

some hospitals charge for parking which is ludicrous imo and highly unethical.

University of Chicago, Northwestern Memorial, and Rush all charge for parking and I think it is ridiculous. These are some of the best institutions in the metro area and they are in city locations where street parking is unavailable or dangerous. U of C charges $15 for valet parking, and $8.00 for garage parking, with validation! I only go there every now and then, but daily visits would be unaffordable. 

12 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

The conservatives whine about death panels and waiting times for government run health care, but we already have death panels and for profit insurance companies doing the same fucking thing,

Yep, I'll never get with folks who are not my doctors and who have never examined me determining what my treatment should be. It's all about the benjamins. 

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10 hours ago, Beermeet said:

It's not right.  None of this, from many angles is not ok. It's morally bankrupt.  Completely.  I love socialized medicine.  My son has extra protection here in California for people in extreme need disability wise.  My son's wheelchair cost $10,000.  The power assist to it ( that little dust buster looking thing makes his wc powered as needed) costs $7,000.  We paid $0. And got it faster by a 1-4 months than people with good insurance through their jobs. 

Welcome to America, where gun ownership is a God given right, but medical care you'll need when you get shot will cost you everything you own, providing you survive at all. 

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I used to live in a city that had paid parking right next to the hospital. There was free parking but it was 4ish blocks away and there were only like 30-50 spots for patients and visitors. The paid parking was a 7 story garage with hundreds of spots.

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24 minutes ago, viii said:

You have to pay to park at the hospital?? Damn, the American medical system really does ding you for everything. 

Patients, visitors and employees.

Although paying is better than what happened to my husband’s cousin who is a Dr in a hospital in Dublin, Ireland. One weekend they started building on the site of their employee parking lot. She had to start riding her bike to work. 

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1 hour ago, viii said:

You have to pay to park at the hospital?? Damn, the American medical system really does ding you for everything. 

That is not an American thing, though. I live in Austria and thanks to our social system, I pay nothing at all for a hospital stay - but I do pay for parking there and it is not cheap, something like 6Euro per hour or 25Euro per day. There are alternatives, though because we have pretty good public transport and I think they just want to encourage people to use it. If that is not possible for medical reasons, you can get a waiver from the doctor to get your parking fees back.

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Reading all this about different health insurances really makes me realize how lucky/blessed my husband and I have been, especially over the last few years. I'm 28 and he's 29. He was still covered under his parent's health insurance for awhile as an adult, plus he would have coverage from his whatever job he was at, if it wasn't too expensive. I didn't have that option (mom was out of work for a little while, dad's health insurance hardly covered him), but I did get insurance when I started a job at 22, and the owner of the company paid for our health insurance. However, once that job shut down I was out of insurance. A year after my job shut down, my husband and I got married, and a few months after we got married he started a job with really good insurance. It was about 40 a month, regardless of it was for single or family. We could've had 10 kids, and the price stayed the same. We didn't really  use it though until a year ago, when my husband needed dental work and an ER trip in the same month. For the dentist visit we owed less than 90 dollars, and for the dental surgery he needed we owed 90 dollars. The ER was trying to get about 800 from us, but finally a year later they sent us an updated bill after insurance paid their portion, and we owe them about 135.00. At the start of this year, after about 4 years at the last job, my husband started a new job. The employer paid for medical insurance and we paid around 20.00 a week for dental and vision. This insurance is the one we really ended up using. He had two doctor visits for his wrist, and insurance paid both bills entirely, and we just owed 25 each visit for copay, and the copay was never due at the visit, we got billed for it later. I have PCOS and finally found a doctor, I went to her, had a ton of blood work, found out my cholesterol is a little high, had to start seeing a primary for the cholesterol, had more blood work, an ultrasound of my organs to rule out any serious issues for my elevated liver enzyme we found out I have, and then also get a vaginal ultrasound because I haven't had a period in like, 5 years, so my doctor was worried about pre cancerous build up. Oddly enough, my lining is thin as if I've had period. I had to take two rounds of a medicine to try to induce a period (didn't work, figures). All together for all of that I only owe 600.00 and I go to a doctors office that also is a hospital, so things can tend to get a little more pricey, so I'm very happy with that 600 total, especially considering one procedure I had done was 2,200 alone. My husband also needed glasses, and we went out of network for them and only paid 86.00 for them. My husband now took a better job opportunity, and we will have to pay for this insurance, but it isn't too expensive, and from what we've been told and read it's pretty good (example, my yearly exams I need will cost us nothing). At the end of december our insurance with this new place will kick in. And added bonus, it looks like they cover some fertility stuff. Not much, but some, such as fertility drugs and a few other things. And every insurance we've had didnt cover anything with fertility needs, so if I end up needing meds to help us have a baby ( I see a fertility specialist once the insurance kicks in), we will be covered. I'm sorry this is so long, I just never realized how MUCH some people have to pay FOR their insurance, even when provided through an employer. I knew some insurances sucked and hardly covered anything, I just didn't realize how much they took you through the ringer for on top of it, just to have them. 

Edited by YourFriendlyLocalHeathen
I'm an idiot and realized I forgot to add some info about medical procedure cost
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1 hour ago, viii said:

You have to pay to park at the hospital?? Damn, the American medical system really does ding you for everything. 

In suburban hospitals, parking is generally free, at least that has been my experience. The hospital I had a procedure at this past Tuesday was near my home and had plenty of free parking. 

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Yeah, the parking at my hospital is free, but I live in a smaller city. I've never gone to a Canadian big city hospital, so I'm not sure about the parking there. 

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Oh my, I’m lost for words, @allthegoodnamesrgone! I’m aware of the downsides of the US healthcare system at least on a general level, and we have talked about the topic here in FJ in the past, but your experiences and the horror your friends had to go through just break my heart. How bad the situation actually is becomes even clearer when you have actual examples. I’m sorry this happened to you and you had to witness your friends go through that. What a nightmare!!! 

In Germany, my (publicly insured) husband had to see a specialist in preparation for a treatment. It was rather urgent and the first specialist I called told me he has to wait 7 months to be seen. The second one said we could come in the very next day if we’re prepared to wait. So the next day it was. We waited for an hour or two but then Mr FluffySnowball was seen and the necessary tests were done. Needless to say, we didn’t have to pay for the doctor out of pocket. That’s something to be thankful for! 

Edited by FluffySnowball
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If DD was a full-time employee at Walmart when Israel was born, then the max out of pocket for a family's healthcare would have been around $13,000-$13,500* (It keeps creeping up every year) regardless which of the 3 (2 HRA and 1 HSA) plans they offer.  Walmart uses lots of temps and contractors to avoid having to provide benefits.  Do we know he wasn't a temporary?  I know many people who temp for years hoping for a full time spot to open up.  They bounce around from temp project to temp project every few months.  Maybe he didn't quit WM, but his temp position ended or ended and he wasn't hired for a new placement and they took that as a sign from God to pursue mission-work. 

*I live in Walmart-land and have their insurance

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Where I live, costs of medical care is really low. And if you have no income or a serieus disability, almost free.

But you have to pay for parking at every hospital. I think sometimes the car is more expensive then the actual care. 

Downside is that the government is almost going bankrupt because of the system as it is.

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I wish I could copy paste or lead all the complainers here in Norway to read here. Yes, a lot is improvable here as well. Some things are huge challenges on several levels. But at least the regular Joe can be sure that they and their kids will be seen and taken care of at some level without going completely bankrupt. 

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8 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

People in the US whine about if we get government health care we'll have to wait to see doctors. Umm we already wait to see doctors. It can take 3 or 4 MONTHS to get into see a specialist, is that not waiting? I wound up hospitalized once because I was so sick, but I still couldn't see the specialist for 3 months, my GP sent me directly to the hospital because that was the only work around to see one right away.  Talk about stupid, then to get the follow up after SURGERY with that specialist I still had to wait 3 months, I hadn't canceled my original appointment yet so I was able to use that one to get in 3 weeks sooner, but I still had to see my GP to get my staples removed after 4 weeks. and get an OK to return to work, otherwise I would have been off of work for 16 weeks, and would have lost my job, since FMLA only covers 12 weeks. 

My friend was diagnosed with CANCER, and had to wait 10 WEEKS before finally starting treatment, and because of the type of cancer she had it progressed from stage 2 to stage 3, this could have cost her her life, because she had to wait for insurance approvals to get an extra mammogram, then to get the ultrasound then the biopsy then finally to see an Oncologist, and then the oncologist had to argue for the treatment she wanted to start on her patient. The insurance company was arguing with the doctor about using a CHEAPER treatment, that wasn't advised for her type of breast cancer.

I had another friend whose doctor had to fight for 8 WEEKS to get the go ahead for the treatment for her TERMINAL CANCER, they figure this cost her about 12 to 18 months of her life. because the cancer was spreading so rapidly and the meds she would be taking was to slow the progression to give her more time.  Her kids were 13 & 15 when she died, she was hoping to live as long as she could but really wanted to be here for her daughters 16th birthday, as it was she died 6 weeks before her 14th birthday.  They were also hoping that if the slowed her cancer enough she might live long enough that they could find something to cure her or give her a significant quality of life for several more years, as she was only 48 when she died, that is a long time and the fing insurance company was more concerned for their bottom line than they were with getting her her treatment. 

The conservatives whine about death panels and waiting times for government run health care, but we already have death panels and for profit insurance companies doing the same fucking thing, and people are DYING because of it. And both of my friends had what was considered top tier insurance. 

The late/former Mr Muffin died Oct 3, 2018. My insurance couldn’t get me in to see a counselor for grief counseling until June of this year. 
When my ANA titers finally tipped the scale enough to make lupus more than a “maybe,” it took 14 months to get in to see a rheumatologist. 

Tell me again how long people in countries with socialized medicine have to wait to see a doctor?!? :angry-cussingblack:

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4 hours ago, viii said:

Yeah, the parking at my hospital is free, but I live in a smaller city. I've never gone to a Canadian big city hospital, so I'm not sure about the parking there. 

It’s quite expensive in Toronto. $5/half hour or $20/day. They have discounted fees for patients and visitors ($50/5 days, $100/10 and $300/30days). My doctor’s office is at the hospital and it is discounted to $4/visit if stamped. 

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