Princess Beatrice is Engaged to Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi

[FluffySnowball]

I’m curious why you think Harry and Meghan weren’t the ones who refused a royal title for Archie - at least that’s how I understand your ocean front comment, @louisa05. I always assumed they had decided to give their son a chance at a more private life but don’t really have any solid info to base this idea on. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by FluffySnowball

[louisa05]

On 10/8/2019 at 11:29 PM, FluffySnowball said:

I’m curious why you think Harry and Meghan weren’t the ones who refused a royal title for Archie - at least that’s how I understand your ocean front comment, @louisa05. I always assumed they had decided to give their son a chance at a more private life but don’t really have any solid info to base this idea on. 

Due to Letters Patent issued by George V,  great grandchildren of the monarch do not automatically get titles other than the direct heir to the throne. In order for Charlotte and Louis to receive titles, the Queen had to issue a decree to change that for William's children. As children of the monarch, they would automatically receive titles then, but were not entitled to them as great grandchildren, only George, the direct heir to the throne was entitled to an HRH title. But, absent a tragedy, Archie will not be the child of a monarch, so there was not title to refuse. The only great grandchild born with a title to refuse was George and, obviously, that would not be done due to his position in the line of succession. The Queen obviously could have granted a title for Archie if she wanted to. BUT it's been clear that she has not been in the business of granting unnecessary titles and reliable sources have long said that Charles wishes to streamline the monarchy down to the more immediate family. The Queen has cousins on the payroll, in grace and favor housing and with HRH titles. Charles is said to see this as unnecessary and not something to continue going forward. Archie as an adult will (likely based on the age of his grandfather) be first the nephew then the cousin of the monarch. In his old age, he will be the equivalent of the Duke of Kent, who is a Prince and an HRH. Granting him an HRH title would not serve the plan of streamlining how many HRH's are around and potentially on the payroll. So it seems very likely that HRH titles were never intended for Harry's kids and Charles will not grant them either. 

As for claims that H & M refused it...they didn't refuse additional titles for Harry upon their marriage which actually means that their children automatically have titles to use --the Earl of Dumbarton for Archie, his father's secondary title and Lady ____________ for any girls they may have. If they seriously didn't want any titles for their children, they would have refused the titles on marriage for Harry which would have meant no titles for their children unless the Queen granted the HRH titles. That would have been the same way that Princess Anne and Mark Phillips declined titles for him on their marriage resulting in no titles for their two children and none for their grandchildren. 

[FluffySnowball]

Thank you so much, @louisa05, for your in-depth answer. The question who receives titles for which reason, who doesn’t and generally the future of the British monarchy - it’s all really interesting. Especially now that the Queen is rather old and both Harry and William have established families, I’m curious to see how things will develop over the next couple of years and decades. 

[tabitha2]

All Charles grandchildren will automatically receive titles upon his assenting to the throne.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm not condoning Andrew's behavior in ANYWAY, especially the "alleged" sexual assault of a minor sex slave, I've long though he was a spoiled arrogant slime ball. 

That said, when you look at his position in the BRF, as the 2nd son, or "spare heir" from an anthropological view it is kind of fascinating to see his how his and Harry's lives have a somewhat similar path.  As I've said in other threads can you imagine living your childhood and young adult life as the spare son? Knowing you main purpose in life is to prepare to ascend the throne in case your brother dies before he has a legitimate heir. Andrew was bit more sever because of his age, in the 60's royal protocol was much more strict, and he was a child of the sitting monarch, where as Harry was/is merely the grandchild of a sitting monarch. 

However both boys/men were treated as the "spare heir" by family and media, they served no real purpose as their older brothers were very healthy and not likely to die before producing an heir themselves. They had to work extra hard to prove their worth not only in the eyes of the media but also in the eyes of their own family.  The difference with the queens other children Ann & Edward, these two were never going to be Queen/King and they knew it, they were not trained in the protocols of a potential monarch like Andrew and Harry. So Andrew & Harry had that extra training that extra, taste of importance and connection to being royal, where as Ann & Edward were always just decoration and minor parts of the family, they were raised to be in their place and accept it. A & H were not, so all of sudden to be faced with having your title, your life style tossed out the widow at the whims of your brother/father can because for resentment, and acting out.  

Harry had the added trauma of his mothers death when he was only 12 years old, she was his lifeline and his world, Charles was much more interested in Camilla and showing William his place in the world than he was in being a father to either of the boys, but especially to Harry, Harry lost, essentially, his only parent during his adolescents, that is an extremely influential time in human development. Now I will give Charles a little credit as he did pull his head out of his ass and became the parent Harry needed, but it may have been too little to late in Harry's mind.  Now you add Harry's wife being treated a bit like his mother was by the press, and all he's seen of history from others POVs about what caused her death. He is INSANELY protective of Meghan, almost to her detriment, He is reflecting his fears about his mother onto his wife, as he fears losing her the same way he lost his mother. I do think this is something Harry needs to get help for, there is a little PTSD there I believe.   

TL:DR pt 1- Being the 2nd son of a sitting monarch or future monarch is a shitty birth position and can cause you to act like an asshole at times. It doesn't however allow you to be a child rapist, or a rapist of any kind, or hang out with known sex traffickers, or waste millions of tax payer funds on being a spoiled brat. 

TL:DR pt 2 - As for Harry, there is a lot of rational fear for his wife, but he is acting irrationally in how he is handling this, and that is causing MORE bad press, He needs to slow his roll a bit and let all the PR people who work for the palace deal with the British media's disgusting treatment of Meghan. 

[viii]

24 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

He is INSANELY protective of Meghan, almost to her detriment, He is reflecting his fears about his mother onto his wife, as he fears losing her the same way he lost his mother.

This is a good way of putting it. 

[Sister_Wife]

That’s an interesting perspective RE: streamlining the working royals. I’ve long felt that the York sisters would be promoted to full time working royals once the Queen passes away. In the next 20 years, a lot of the current working royals will have passed on leaving only Charles siblings (who will be getting on in years), Camilla, Sophie Wessex, William & Catherine and Harry & Meghan, George, Charlotte and Louis.I think Britain and the commonwealth is far too large for such a small group to be in service. Unless we see a major downward turn in the popularity of the monarchy in that period, I think it makes sense to bring the York sisters on board. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Sister_Wife
Auto correct muck up.

[just_ordinary]

2 hours ago, Sister_Wife said:

That’s an interesting perspective RE: streamlining the working royals. I’ve long felt that the York sisters would be promoted to full time working royals once the Queen passes away. In the next 20 years, a lot of the current working royals will have passed on leaving only Charles siblings (who will be getting on in years), Camilla, Sophie Wessex, William & Catherine and Harry & Meghan, George, Charlotte and Louis.I think Britain and the commonwealth is far too large for such a small group to be in service. Unless we see a major downward turn in the popularity of the monarchy in that period, I think it makes sense to bring the York sisters on board. 

Not necessarily. Many Monarchies only exist of the reigning monarch and his/spouse and children (or crown prince/princess if they are old enough and have a family of their own). The UK is not that big and I believe the monarchies role in the Commonwealth will decrease a lot when the Charles becomes king. Right now, the BRF does a ton of engagements. Many other monarchies cover a way smaller percentage. A downward turn in popularity in the beginning can be expected but they have come back every time till now. They certainly can do it again. The Cambridge’s might bring their children to more engagements in the future as they get older together with a few more official photos of them they can surely gloss over the dramatic decrease of engagements. The public just loves royal children.

[tabitha2]

It would do well for us to remember talk  about a smaller Royal family eventually never  came directly from Charles himself and it was mentioned years ago at that. It’s not by any stretch a fact that this will occur. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by tabitha2

[meep]

Not sure what I think about this guy, he gives me creepy vibes, but I genuinely hope I'm wrong! Beatrice deserves a nice wedding, hopefully less security needed for this one. ?

I like her engagement ring. 

[Palimpsest]

Updating to say that Beatrice's wedding plans have been confirmed by the Palace.  And they are very low key.  It sounds like a viable plan to keep the wedding as private as possible, and the putrid Prince Andrew as undercover as possible. 

Nuptials are scheduled for May 29th at the Chapel Royal at St. James Palace, with a garden party reception afterwards in the grounds of Buckingham Palace.  No gifts, please, but donations to the bride and grooms favorite charities would be nice.

For those who don't know, St. James Palace is where Bea (and formerly Eugenie) has her flat.  She can get dressed at home and nip across the courtyard for the wedding.  I expect they'd prefer to  sneak Andy in under cover of darkness to walk her down the aisle, but the man has no shame so he'll probably show his mug arriving at and leaving St. James.

St. James Palace and the Chapel Royal are not open to the public and security should be comparatively easy.  It is a stone's throw from Buckingham Palace so the most anyone will get a glimpse of the bride (and her disgraceful daddy) will be during a <1 minute drive up the Mall to Buckingham Palace.  That is, unless the happy couple decide to do a carriage ride around a few blocks.  No such carriage ride has been announced yet.

But I'm sure we will get official photos (complete with tiara) and the paps will be stalking the outside of St. James Palace and the Mall to watch the family arrive and leave.

The Chapel Royal St. James's maximum capacity is 150.  Many Royal babies (including Bea) have been baptised there and it is where Queen Victoria married Albert.  Bea is supposed to identify strongly with Queen Victoria.  I wouldn't know.

I expect a lot more people will be invited to the garden party reception, but that is standard for the royals.  And Buckingham Palace already has tents and practice at garden parties for the usual summer events.  I expect the food will be better than at the Queen's usual garden parties.

Cue a whole lot of people weeping and wailing that this is so unkind to Bea and that she has been "cheated" out of a big public televised bash like Eugenie's expensive affair. 

But perhaps Beatrice is happy with a private affair.  She and her intended seem to want to keep Bea's future stepson away from the public eye as much as possible.  Good for them.

This sounds to me like a sensible solution under the circumstances.   I have no opinion of the groom, but I hope she has a lovely private wedding and a happy marriage.

As royal marriages seem to be breaking up all over the place (Peter Phillips and the Snowdens) I wish Beatrice the best and a private life as a minor royal.  

 

 

[louisa05]

On 10/13/2019 at 3:35 PM, tabitha2 said:

All Charles grandchildren will automatically receive titles upon his assenting to the throne.

Not necessarily. Exhibit A: Lady Louise Windsor and James, Viscount Severn. Grandchildren of the reigning monarch in the male line.  Not HRH. Not Princess or Prince.  Entitled yes.  Required, no. I suspect that if Harry and Meghan continue to live in North America and not work as royals, no change in Archie’s status will happen. 

[viii]

They're talking about how Beatrice's wedding date might be moved for a third time; this time due to COVID-19, rather than her dad's scandals. I feel sorry for the poor girl to have all of this hanging over her head on what is supposed to be one of the happiest days of her life. 

[viii]

Princess Beatrice cancels the wedding that nobody was checking for. Poor girl. 

[tabitha2]

I don’t understand why they could not have just got a legal wedding  and next year have the royally appropriate show wedding.

[kpmom]

8 minutes ago, viii said:

Princess Beatrice cancels the wedding that nobody was checking for. Poor girl. 

She has had no luck at all with that wedding, has she? 

At this point I might just quietly elope, but I'm sure that's not how the royal family does things.

[viii]

Just now, kpmom said:

She has had no luck at all with that wedding, has she? 

At this point I might just quietly elope, but I'm sure that's not how the royal family does things.

No luck at all. She had to rearrange things twice already due to daddy’s scandals. I’d just elope but I’m guessing she wants family and friends present. And there’s no way Andrew would let her do something as momentous as getting married without milking it for all it’s worth. 

[adidas]

Thinking of Princess Beatrice today. Her dad is scum and covid sucks, her heart must be hurting today, on what was meant to be her wedding day.

[viii]

I feel like with the scandal and everything going on, covid would be the perfect excuse to have a tiny, private wedding. Or even eloping. I mean, I suppose that it’s possible she wants a big grand wedding like her sister and cousins, so I do feel bad for her, but this would be a good time to quietly slink away. 

[tabitha2]

I was informed on Royal Forums that Britain was simply not allowing people to marry at all so they could not even elope. 

Brits: is this true? 

On 4/16/2020 at 2:09 PM, viii said:

No luck at all. She had to rearrange things twice already due to daddy’s scandals. I’d just elope but I’m guessing she wants family and friends present. And there’s no way Andrew would let her do something as momentous as getting married without milking it for all it’s worth. 

I don’t believe so. IIRC  Her first plan was to Marry and Andrew was going to Host a Dinner afterwards as Beatrice wanted her dad to be involved if walking her down the aisle was not feasible. So  It was really Corona that derailed both planned nuptials.  It was not going to be televised in any case.

[Topaz]

Weddings were stopped a while back. 
 

I can’t say for sure that is still the case as I don’t have any coming up in my circle so I haven’t been keeping a close eye on the situation. I do read a number of news sites though and I haven’t seen any updates.

[adidas]

Princess Beatrice got married in a private ceremony with 20 guests ❤️

https://honey.nine.com.au/royals/princess-beatrice-edoardo-mapelli-mozzi-married-queen-windsor-castle/d3c730f4-0870-46a5-b461-45cee260853e

I’m so glad HM was there. I’d rather not bring Beatrice’s revolting father into it, because she doesn’t deserve that stain on the memory of her wedding day. But he was there too according to reports.

[viii]

I’m glad she was able to finally wed and I hope it was the day she hoped it would be. Now hopefully the marriage is a good one but her new husband seems suspicious lol 

[anjulibai]

I hope they are very happy together. 

[WiseGirl]

6 hours ago, viii said:

her new husband seems suspicious lol 

Why?