Josiah and Lauren 15: The Drama Llama Rolls On

[SorenaJ]

I'm by no means a doctor or a biologist, but why would it be unlikely that conception had happened, Lauren found out she was pregnant at 4 weeks by a positive pregnancy test, and had a miscarriage at 5 weeks? Why does it have to be a late period? Are early miscarriages not super common? 

[llg1234]

If she had a positive pregnancy test, she was most likely pregnant. False positives are pretty rare. A chemical pregnancy is still technically a pregnancy - it’s just a term some people use for an early miscarriage. 
 

I think Lauren’s been quite OTT, but she didn’t have a late period. It’s annoying seeing people say that, mostly because many snarkers consider themselves to be science minded. 

[19tacos&counting]

Especially if they were trying, which all Duggar’s are at all times, I’m sure she took a pregnancy test and got a positive result.

[Four is Enough]

I've often wondered if the Duggars start testing for pregnancy the moment' they're deflowered, or do they understand they have to wait ten days to two weeks?

[HarryPotterFan]

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I'm by no means a doctor or a biologist, but why would it be unlikely that conception had happened, Lauren found out she was pregnant at 4 weeks by a positive pregnancy test, and had a miscarriage at 5 weeks? Why does it have to be a late period? Are early miscarriages not super common? 

Early miscarriages are super common. Often they’re so early women don’t even realize it or even miss a period. They just don’t find out because the average woman wouldn’t take a pregnancy test as often as a Duggar. Though advancements in pregnancy tests being able to detect super early now will likely lead more women to find out about pregnancies that end in early miscarriage.

13 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

I wonder if she is using this miscarriage to  rationalize real depression. This was a way for her to feel those feelings without guilt. She is sad because she lost a baby. Evey mom is sad when they loose a baby. This is real pain. Not her being sad because she is being selfish, trusting God, or doing J.O.Y.

I could see the Duggar's and family like them saying that depression is not real. Especially with the whole J.O.Y shit. 

That’s a really interesting/good point. I hope she’s able to get any help she needs, but I highly doubt it. Suffering from depression in this cult would be HORRIBLE. It’s bad enough when you aren’t in a cult and are able/encouraged to get help! 

[justmy2cents]

I believe Lauren took a pregnancy test. Then a few days later she got bad cramping, maybe worse than normal for her. I don’t think we should question if she was really pregnant. I believe that she was. But right now she needs to focus on the baby she’s due with next month.

[twoandthrough]

4 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I'm by no means a doctor or a biologist, but why would it be unlikely that conception had happened, Lauren found out she was pregnant at 4 weeks by a positive pregnancy test, and had a miscarriage at 5 weeks? Why does it have to be a late period? Are early miscarriages not super common? 

THIS. I tested positive a FULL WEEK before my period was due with both of my daughters (and one that was a chemical pregnancy between the two of them). The lines were faint, but they were there that early, and they got darker as the days passed. It's 100% possible (and probable) that Lauren had a positive test and knew she was pregnant.

I had early ultrasounds with both of my daughters at 5 weeks. There was just an empty sac each time. They told me to prepare for a miscarriage both times. Then, a week later, there was a fetal pole at 6 weeks, and another week later, we saw the heartbeat at 7 weeks. Happened exactly the same with both kids. 

[anjulibai]

I'm sure she was pregnant. And she probably figured her due date from the first day of her last period - that's generally how it's done, unless you get an ultrasound saying differently. 

I'm sure the miscarriage was very difficult for her, but if she's claiming her loss was the same as losing Grandma Mary, or the same as Joy losing Annabell, then she needs help, either getting perspective or with her depression. 

[Jody]

7 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

What she had was a blighted ovum. I had one too. On an ultrasound the most you’d see is a little circle, the yolk sac. Probably too early to even see a fetal pole. I had an early ultrasound because I was doing IVF. Don’t get me wrong, it was plenty devastating to lose the pregnancy at the time but there was no baby to be seen yet.

How would you know, did you see her ultrasound or the result of a bloodtest? I happen to know that you can deduct wether it’s a blighted ovum by bloodtest, bc while you will have a high number of pregnancy hormones in your blood, it will often not correspond with the number you should have for a viable pregnancy. I’ve been through that, and saying “it’s just a blighted ovum” not a pregnancy is something that would have gotten you your teeth knocked out if you’d said that to me.

[LacyMay]

9 hours ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

'Lauren and I shared the exact same due date' Jessa, February 21st via Instagram.

 

I think it's ironic that Jessa said "speaking for the sake of filling silence is not needful and is often hurtful." In response to some of the necessary things said to Lauren since ut seems that so.much. of what Lauren says doesn't seem to be needed or helpful and could very much be seen as hurtful. 

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, Jody said:

How would you know, did you see her ultrasound or the result of a bloodtest? I happen to know that you can deduct wether it’s a blighted ovum by bloodtest, bc while you will have a high number of pregnancy hormones in your blood, it will often not correspond with the number you should have for a viable pregnancy. I’ve been through that, and saying “it’s just a blighted ovum” not a pregnancy is something that would have gotten you your teeth knocked out if you’d said that to me.

I never said ‘just’ a blighted ovum. I had one myself. 

You have some anger issues there. 

[nolongerIFBx]

On 10/14/2019 at 10:24 AM, JesSky03 said:

. . . .

So anyway, while I think some of the things she has done have been over the top, she still gets a pass from me. For what its worth I didn't think her recent IG post was all that bad and is pretty fitting considering it is Pregnancy/Infant loss awareness month. I didn't get a sense of her being insensitive to Joy or anyone else- it was pretty in line with the other loss posts I've seen this month. . . . 

 

I have seen quite a few infant loss awareness posts from others as October 15 is National Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day. Not saying that I don't think that Lauren might be in need of some professional help but this particular post wasn't that unusual given the date (although if that is a photo that she took recently rather than at the time of her loss or a stock photo, yikes, very morbid!)

[Daisy0322]

15 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Not to undermine Lauren's miscarriage, but at 5 weeks the embryo would have been the size of a sesame seed, so I doubt she would have been able to see the embryo come away, like she said. 

Maybe there was a blood clot she thought was the baby? I doubt they are very educated in zygote/fetal development.

 

I definitely think this was a very big loss for Lauren but I also think she wants to remind the world she's technically already a "Mom" by her definition due to her lack of opportunities and roles she can fill. I think she's spoken out of turn with Joy and been seemingly a little over the top but I do think it's all coming from a very real place inside of herself. Long term I think as she has more babies she will either move on to a healthy place or each pregnancy willjist be a painful and anxiety ridden reminder. It's hard for me to not empathize due to her lack of mental health care. I think she could really benefit but I doubt her cult beliefs will ever allow for it. 

[HarleyQuinn]

4 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

Maybe there was a blood clot she thought was the baby? I doubt they are very educated in zygote/fetal development.

 

This is what I always thought. Late period, and heavy flow/clotty. This whole thing is over the top and ridiculous. 

[grandmadugger]

I’m watching Counting On and in the Joshiah and Lauren recap section she said she has cried everyday over the miscarriage. That can’t be healthy. 

[snickerz]

I wonder if Lauren would be more prone to Post partum depression. 

[Jody]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

This is what I always thought. Late period, and heavy flow/clotty. This whole thing is over the top and ridiculous. 

Grieving over a miscarriage is NEVER ridiculous. Mocking the loss of a pregnancy, however, shows a lack of civilization that is truly frightening.

[Jody]

8 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I never said ‘just’ a blighted ovum. I had one myself. 

You have some anger issues there. 

Lauren feels like she lost a baby. You say, probably a blighted ovum. Why go there. Leave Lauren to grieve the way she wants for her baby. Not for a blighted ovum. You’re downplaying her loss. That’s not right. I don’t have anger issues, bless your heart.

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, snickerz said:

I wonder if Lauren would be more prone to Post partum depression. 

Looks to me like she already has it.

[Dutch_girl]

What helped me a great deal after both my miscarriages was the fact that I have a carrier. Just the distraction of my job, my students who need my time and attention, getting up in the morning, get dressed en have conversations with my collegues. The moments that I was sad was when I was alone, in bed or in the shower. Lauren doesn't have those kind of distractions, she is home all day by herself, waiting till her carrier as a mother can begin. If she cries every day, that might be because she has to much time to think.

[just_ordinary]

17 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I'm by no means a doctor or a biologist, but why would it be unlikely that conception had happened, Lauren found out she was pregnant at 4 weeks by a positive pregnancy test, and had a miscarriage at 5 weeks? Why does it have to be a late period? Are early miscarriages not super common? 

Thank you. I am actually astonished that so many here are questioning this. We know that the Duggars have a good knowledge about cycles. We know (thanks to Jill) that they do test very early. Maybe they even us ovulation sticks (for their intended purpose and for pregnancy oracles). They might also measure their temperature. It’s absolutely not unusual to have a good idea you might be pregnant a few days before your period and a positive pregnancy test around the day your period would start. Millions of women all over the world do that. 

It’s the same with the estimated due date. It’s counted from the first day of your last period if your doctor doesn’t move it. Not really complicated. 

13 hours ago, twoandthrough said:

THIS. I tested positive a FULL WEEK before my period was due with both of my daughters (and one that was a chemical pregnancy between the two of them). The lines were faint, but they were there that early, and they got darker as the days passed. It's 100% possible (and probable) that Lauren had a positive test and knew she was pregnant.

I had early ultrasounds with both of my daughters at 5 weeks. There was just an empty sac each time. They told me to prepare for a miscarriage both times. Then, a week later, there was a fetal pole at 6 weeks, and another week later, we saw the heartbeat at 7 weeks. Happened exactly the same with both kids. 

My ob found the heartbeat in both pregnancies at my first appointment (5+4). My first pregnancy still ended in a missed miscarriage. The baby just didn’t develop any further. I didn’t find out till the next appointment at 9+something. Finding the heartbeat is a big step but the time frame is actually surprisingly big if you think about it. And finding it earlier doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

So technically I wasn’t much further along than Lauren might have been. And even a chemical pregnancy is a real pregnancy that ended in a miscarriage. At least that is in medical science.

I find it ridiculous that people here feel the need to act as if Lauren is just a stupid, over dramatic child. She obviously hasn’t processed the miscarriage well. And you can question (and dislike) her and her actions. But that doesn’t mean we need to deny the easy fact that it’s very likely she had a positive pregnancy test. Now, passing and seeing  the baby seems unlikely but if she had a blood clot or maybe just more tissue it’s not surprising a young shocked woman (with maybe a tendency to dramatise) believes she saw and even felt her baby passing. 

[lumpentheologie]

I don't think Lauren was necessarily claiming that she saw something in the shape of a fetus.  Since it's a baby from the moment of conception for them, I'm sure she considered whatever came out of her uterus to be "the baby." 

And can we stop with questioning whether she was even pregnant?  There's no reason to doubt that. I know a lot of people don't like Lauren and she's a fundie, but given a larger culture of dismissing women's perceptions (especially medical perceptions) of their own bodies, we should leave that alone. 

[Sullie06]

19 hours ago, twoandthrough said:

THIS. I tested positive a FULL WEEK before my period was due with both of my daughters (and one that was a chemical pregnancy between the two of them). The lines were faint, but they were there that early, and they got darker as the days passed. It's 100% possible (and probable) that Lauren had a positive test and knew she was pregnant.

I had early ultrasounds with both of my daughters at 5 weeks. There was just an empty sac each time. They told me to prepare for a miscarriage both times. Then, a week later, there was a fetal pole at 6 weeks, and another week later, we saw the heartbeat at 7 weeks. Happened exactly the same with both kids. 

Same situation with my daughter. I had had a 12 week pregnancy loss two months prior to conceiving her and I just had a feeling I was pregnant again but my cycles were still crazy from the loss. I took a test and it was faintly positive, called my doc, went in for ultrasound and I had two sacs measuring just over 4 weeks. Came back a week later and one had developed a fetal pole measuring just over 5 weeks and had a low heart beat and the other was still empty. One more week later Baby A had a strong heartbeat and Baby B had a visible fetal pole measuring only 5wks but no heartbeat and never developed one. So technically I was barely 4 weeks and it was days before my expected period when I found out. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Sullie06

[Glasgowghirl]

4 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I don't think Lauren was necessarily claiming that she saw something in the shape of a fetus.  Since it's a baby from the moment of conception for them, I'm sure she considered whatever came out of her uterus to be "the baby." 

And can we stop with questioning whether she was even pregnant?  There's no reason to doubt that. I know a lot of people don't like Lauren and she's a fundie, but given a larger culture of dismissing women's perceptions (especially medical perceptions) of their own bodies, we should leave that alone. 

Yes, we have nothing to suspect that she wasn't pregnant, even if she only knew she was pregnant for a day before she lost the baby, makes no difference, she has every right to mourn her loss. I don't agree with the way she posts insensitive things sometimes but for people to accuse her of not even being pregnant in the first place is horrible. 

[freshlemonade]

I think its interesting that she probably only knew she was pregnant for about a week, week and a half tops, and yet TLC was able to film storylines revolving around her finding out, announcing, and feeling morning sickness during the cake baking contest.  I guess they just added it into whatever they were planning on filming.  

And, maybe because of all of those "Lauren is pregnant" story threads for the show, maybe she felt a lot more pregnant than a regular person at 5 weeks.  Also, I'm sure she felt carrying Josiah's baby would really prove his manliness to everyone (ahem JimBob), so it was extra disappointing when it ended.  

But I'm also in the camp of she needs to give it a rest on social media, stop inserting/comparing/mentioning her loss in respect to others', the Asa cake was over the top, etc.