Sierra 3: Paddle Faster I Hear Banjos

[mstee]

Her analogy is ridiculous. If something in your life was causing you panic attacks, major stress, and general unhappiness you would address it. Instead, she says “heap on some more!”  Kids are not a degree- you don’t show up at class, do some studying and finish up after x number of years. They are a full time job that pretty much lasts forever. Clearly, she sees her kids as a collection and some sort of badge of honor rather than focusing on them as individuals. It seems she feels she must suffer without an option to stop having more and that this is her calling. At this point I don’t have much sympathy for her. I feel bad for her kiddos. 

[singsingsing]

If a psychologist who had struggled through college to get her masters was clearly not happy, not mentally or physically healthy, and was putting herself and her family through extreme financial, physical, and psychological hardship, yeah, I would probably strongly encourage her to think about not going for the PhD. A PhD is a worthy goal, but not a necessary one. Nobody needs a PhD. She will survive and possibly thrive in this scenario without one. Nobody needs eight kids. Our culture has an unhealthy obsession with 'hustling' and pushing yourself past your breaking point for the sake of pride, and Sierra is just buying into the fundie quiverfull version of that destructive lie. Sometimes the answer is to stop.

[LacyMay]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

If a psychologist who had struggled through college to get her masters was clearly not happy, not mentally or physically healthy, and was putting herself and her family through extreme financial, physical, and psychological hardship, yeah, I would probably strongly encourage her to think about not going for the PhD.

If a Psychologist is struggling that much and not reaching out for support/not engaging in self care. 

I doubt that they have the skills, knowledge or self awareness to have made it to their PhD. 

That analogy is infuriating.

[BemusedByFundamentalism]

23 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

In all the cases? In Spain, some PhD are fulltime paid job, but others (not that brilliant to be chosen for the job, or who just don't want that commitment), are not paid at all and must pay for it. 

As far as I know, every PhD position is paid. I know quite a few people who are doing or have finished their PhD (in different fields) and everyone had a paid PhD position at their university. Ofcourse, there are also people who choose to do a PhD in their own time later in life, but these are exceptions in my experience. 

20 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Read up on student debt in the US. Apparently we prefer an uneducated population, because we certainly don’t fund advanced education well.
The folks with PhDs that I know have serious debt (unless they’re much older — we used to appreciate those lovely nerds much more). I’d love to return to school, but at this point, my masters degree is fine and more debt wouldn’t be  beneficial.

I was definitely already aware of the student debt problems in the US, but I hadn't realized that this applies to PhD candidates as well. At one point in life my ex and I had been planning a move to Pittsburgh, because he was offered a position as a postdoc at Carnegie Mellon. We even went looking for houses and everything, it was an almost sealed deal. I remember the move was going to be after my graduation over here from Conservatory, and I had been looking up several programs in Pittsburgh, only to realize that I wouldn't be able in any way to pay for university there. This was all right before/simultaneously with the big 2008 crisis, and the whole move didn't happen in the end. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by BemusedByFundamentalism

[apandaaries]

2 hours ago, BemusedByFundamentalism said:

As far as I know, every PhD position is paid. I know quite a few people who are doing or have finished their PhD (in different fields) and everyone had a paid PhD position at their university. Ofcourse, there are also people who choose to do a PhD in their own time later in life, but these are exceptions in my experience. 

I was definitely already aware of the student debt problems in the US, but I hadn't realized that this applies to PhD candidates as well. At one point in life my ex and I had been planning a move to Pittsburgh, because he was offered a position as a postdoc at Carnegie Mellon. We even went looking for houses and everything, it was an almost sealed deal. I remember the move was going to be after my graduation over here from Conservatory, and I had been looking up several programs in Pittsburgh, only to realize that I wouldn't be able in any way to pay for university there. This was all right before/simultaneously with the big 2008 crisis, and the whole move didn't happen in the end. 

PhD programs can be fully funded, and sometimes are. The problem is that funding varies, and it’s certainly not guaranteed for every student. We also produce a surplus of PhDs for the number of tenure track positions available in the States. I’m a big fan of The Professor Is In, and she discusses a lot of the issues in higher ed in the US, including funding levels and the time spent in researching before the big PhD. https://theprofessorisin.com/2017/05/26/academia-as-identity-a-ukus-comparison/

[Belugaloo]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:41 AM, BemusedByFundamentalism said:

Wait, you have to pay to get a PhD in the US?! Here in The Netherlands getting your PhD is a fulltime paid job at the university. 

I've never seen a phd program that you have to pay for here in the us. However, I suspect some students may take out loans to cover living expenses if they dont work while pursuing their Phd. Many programs offer funding to phd students, but most people can't live on 15k a year, so I can see that some might take out loans for that reason.

 

one of my professors during the spring of my senior year spent an entire lecture discussing the pros of skipping a masters degree and starting your Phd- the biggest being avoiding student loans. Now, most of the people in my class weren't in a position of already having published research- which is pretty much mandatory if you want to bypass your masters degree and start your Phd fresh out of undergrad.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Belugaloo

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

15 hours ago, JillyO said:

Whether you have to pay for your PhD or not very much depends on your field of study. My husband is getting his PhD in Economics. No one in his program or any single program he looked at pays tuition, and the vast majority have a scholarship/stipend (most have to teach) that covers living expenses for one person quite easily (and we are in the Bay Area where COL is ridiculous). 

That said, the PhD years are hard enough as is, for me and him. I don’t want to imagine what the added stress of doing this while incurring debt would do to us. 

My BIL is working on his PhD and is paying tuition, that said he isn't working at the Uni, he's private sector so there is no reason for him to be subsidized. He WAS working at the Uni, but not teaching, so I'm not sure what he was paying.   

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, apandaaries said:

We also produce a surplus of PhDs for the number of tenure track positions available in the States.

Not an exclusive US situation. Many European countries face the same. 

[artdecades]

Didn’t Sierra have a breakdown when she went to college and turned fundie after that? Not the greatest analogy considering she dropped out. 

[apandaaries]

This is the first of a two part article about an academic couple who went to Sweden to pursue higher ed. They were also able to begin a family while in school (this has been problematic for women I’ve known here in the States in PhD programs — we don’t seem to acknowledge how children impact school, time, and studies. Of course, I’ve also heard of issues for mothers Who are professors in higher ed, too. It’s pretty shitty). They were able to live decent lives as students. That doesn’t seem to be the standard here in the States. The thought of paid parental leave while pursuing a PhD? Heaven on earth. https://theprofessorisin.com/2013/02/18/if-youre-considering-grad-schoolwork-in-scandinavia-part-i-a-guest-post/

[HideousGreenShirt]

17 hours ago, mstee said:

Clearly, she sees her kids as a collection and some sort of badge of honor rather than focusing on them as individuals. It seems she feels she must suffer without an option to stop having more and that this is her calling. At this point I don’t have much sympathy for her. I feel bad for her kiddos. 

Thank you - you expressed this perfectly. There's something about her posts that just comes across martyr-y. Every single post is basically "omg this terrible thing happened, life is such a struggle, so awful, I had 6 mental breakdowns, my kids calmed me down, I cried myself to sleep. But you know what? I'm SO HAPPY and THANKFUL TO JESUS for all these stressful, mostly avoidable situations. My coping with all these struggles in the most public way is super inspiring. Believe me. HAPPY. BLESSED. You believe me right? Because jesus."

I've said it before; no way are her kids ignorant to her mental health. Whilst I doubt they get to spend a ton of time with people outside of their family, they have got to see her constantly crying and wonder what is up. 

[mpheels]

Coming out of a period of lurkerdom for this... I did my PhD in a health sciences discipline at a prominent university in the US, graduating in 2017 - they do not fully fund PhD students as a matter of university policy. I had “full funding” for my first two years - tuition, $20K annual stipend, and crappy health insurance. We were only allowed to work 20 hours/week for university jobs, but that was enough to supplement my stipend.

For year 3, I got a teaching fellowship that covered tuition in exchange for being a TA for 5 courses (we were on a quarter system, so I did one course per term plus summer session). I worked 20/week as a graduate research assistant, and picked up consulting jobs “off the record” (fully legit, but not through school so they couldn’t limit it). All in, I worked about 40 hours/week for money, had to do my dissertation work on top of three paid jobs, and still needed loans to make ends meet.

Year 4, I got a scholarship to cover tuition, and continued the RA/consulting gigs, plus loans to live. 

[indianabones]

Kristen Young talked about being antivax on her instastories today.

To answer her question of who's better than God to ask whether to vaccinate your children or not: A DOCTOR, KRISTEN. And why should people with immunodeficiencies respect her decision when being around her unvaccinated kids could literally kill them? Does she realize that her kids have a higher risk of dying every time they ride in her car than they do from getting a vaccination? Or maybe she thinks they'll get autism ???...

Here's another highlight, too:

A nice reminder for the day of how terrible fundies can be and why this site exists.

[singsingsing]

Great, I hope she feels that peace when one of her kids dies of a vaccine-preventable illness. Fucking morons.

[HideousGreenShirt]

Antivaxers bring me out in an instant rage. 

Who you gonna pray to when one of your kids or one of their friends gets seriously ill with a totally preventable disease, Kristen? Those people are calling you ignorant, careless and negligent for a really good reason.

Now I want to know if Sierra vaccinates. 

[indianabones]

12 minutes ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

Now I want to know if Sierra vaccinates.

Based on her treating thrush with dietary changes as opposed to, y'know, ACTUAL MEDICATION I'd guess not.

[candygirl200413]

But God made science and made the researchers who create vaccines and did the work to say it doesn't cause autism or any other issues. 

(My first ever grad school paper was on vaccines so this pisses me off to no damn end!!!)

[catlady]

And God made all the bodies that get the flu, broken bones, and complications in pregnancy/childbirth.  So if Kristen wants to use that “logic” in not vaccinating her kids, then she should have had her kids at home with no medical assistance and refuse all manner of medical intervention for herself, her husband, and children.  How utterly stupid.

Edited December 23, 2019 by catlady
Clarity.

[Bad Wolf]

4 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

But God made science and made the researchers who create vaccines and did the work to say it doesn't cause autism or any other issues. 

(My first ever grad school paper was on vaccines so this pisses me off to no damn end!!!)

True, but you're asking for logic from a fundie. When I was young we didn't have vaccinations, so we suffered from measles, mumps, etc. When the polio vaccine came out, we got it immediately. I knew two children who got polio before the vaccine.

Now, as an old person I have my DPT, shingles and flu. Anti vaxers haven't seen the damage caused by these diseases.

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

24 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

True, but you're asking for logic from a fundie. When I was young we didn't have vaccinations, so we suffered from measles, mumps, etc. When the polio vaccine came out, we got it immediately. I knew two children who got polio before the vaccine.

Now, as an old person I have my DPT, shingles and flu. Anti vaxers haven't seen the damage caused by these diseases.

Bolding mine:

My grandpa said the same thing when I was talking to him about a documentary I had just recently watched on polio and the history of its vaccine. He said people nowadays don’t know the fear of what these diseases are and what they can do. 

I just keep thinking of smallpox. It was only declared eradicated by WHO in 1980. And the only reason why it has been eradicated? Vaccines. A massive world wide vaccine campaign was launched to be rid of it. It scares me to think that if it were still around today and the same campaign against it was implemented, it would most likely fail because of ignorant anti vaxers.

 @candygirl200413 I wish more fundies realized this as well.

[Peaches-n-Beans]

On 12/22/2019 at 1:04 PM, singsingsing said:

If a psychologist who had struggled through college to get her masters was clearly not happy, not mentally or physically healthy, and was putting herself and her family through extreme financial, physical, and psychological hardship, yeah, I would probably strongly encourage her to think about not going for the PhD. A PhD is a worthy goal, but not a necessary one. Nobody needs a PhD. She will survive and possibly thrive in this scenario without one. Nobody needs eight kids. Our culture has an unhealthy obsession with 'hustling' and pushing yourself past your breaking point for the sake of pride, and Sierra is just buying into the fundie quiverfull version of that destructive lie. Sometimes the answer is to stop.

I completely agree, I am no where near my PHD, I am currently really really struggling with getting a bachelors, I don’t care for school. I love learning, and all the interesting materials and stuff, but the pressure of my university is a bit more then I can handle. I’m not mentally healthy, I haven’t been in a long time, and my family life is completely falling apart. I’m sure that contributes to it, but the fact is, I wanted to get a PHD someday, that’s what I wanted to do. And right now, I don’t even want to get a bachelors at this point. I know, logically I need one. But no way in hell I’m going past this. 

I also changed my degree, I was East Asian history because my  mother wanted that, that’s the degree she’d been going for before i was born, but I liked Sociology more, so I changed. 

Now it might change, I might decide in 10 years i want a masters, but it’s not really a choice in the US these days. Even entry level jobs I try applying for ask for a bachelors minimum, and they pay minimum wage. But the fact is, I recognized that I couldn’t handle my work load indefinitely, and I couldn’t handle much more of this. So I changed course. If Seirra was an introspective person maybe she’d have that same realizaiont

- and sorry for typos, I’m on an ipad and it’s a pan in the ass to try to edit.  

[indianabones]

Wanted to post this too before it disappears in a few hours. Nice way to get around answering the question.

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, indianabones said:

Wanted to post this too before it disappears in a few hours. Nice way to get around answering the question.

By avoiding to answer the question, she actually did answer and sadly, she seems to beat her kids. That’s so sad but doesn’t surprise me. The friendly mask of fundamentalism is very thin. 

[BemusedByFundamentalism]

16 hours ago, apandaaries said:

This is the first of a two part article about an academic couple who went to Sweden to pursue higher ed. They were also able to begin a family while in school (this has been problematic for women I’ve known here in the States in PhD programs — we don’t seem to acknowledge how children impact school, time, and studies. Of course, I’ve also heard of issues for mothers Who are professors in higher ed, too. It’s pretty shitty). They were able to live decent lives as students. That doesn’t seem to be the standard here in the States. The thought of paid parental leave while pursuing a PhD? Heaven on earth. https://theprofessorisin.com/2013/02/18/if-youre-considering-grad-schoolwork-in-scandinavia-part-i-a-guest-post/

Same here in The Netherlands. My best friend is currently for the second time on maternity leave since starting her job as a PhD-student (maternity leave is by default a minimum of 16 weeks paid leave over here, starting 6 to 4 weeks prior to your due date). 

[WiseGirl]

Spoiler

 

I'm very sad that the first thing she lists of importance to teach them is obedience.  They're kids not dogs. 

Don't get me started on "training our children."