Woman forced to give birth in dirty jail cell and without assistance

[fraurosena]

The utter callousness and cruelty makes my blood boil. And what are the odds those jailers are pro-lifers, do you think?

[Warning: although blurred, the actual delivery is shown]

 

[Audrey2]

2 hours ago, fraurosena said:

The utter callousness and cruelty makes my blood boil. And what are the odds those jailers are pro-lifers, do you think?

[Warning: although blurred, the actual delivery is shown]

 

This is absolutely disgusting. It makes my stomach churn and my blood boil. It doesn't sound pro-life to me.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I saw this on the NBC Nightly News. The only defense I heard from the jail rang hollow to me.

Quote

"Ms. Sanchez was in the medical unit and under the care of Denver health medical professionals at the time she gave birth," Serna said. "To make sure nothing like this happens again, the Denver Sheriff Department has changed its policies to ensure that pregnant inmates who are in any stage of labor are now transported immediately to the hospital."

(my bold)

So, she was under the care of medical professionals? When she was giving birth all by herself?! Bullshit.

[Destiny]

16 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I saw this on the NBC Nightly News. The only defense I heard from the jail rang hollow to me.

So, she was under the care of medical professionals? When she was giving birth all by herself?! Bullshit.

Where the fuck were said professionals in the video? I didn't see them!

[apandaaries]

16 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I saw this on the NBC Nightly News. The only defense I heard from the jail rang hollow to me.

So, she was under the care of medical professionals? When she was giving birth all by herself?! Bullshit.

Shit like this makes me just want to start a lot of fires. 

Who tf believes we’re doing well while starting endless wars and putting humans in fucking cages and ensuring that our billionaires need not worry about taxes? 

I might be ready for an internet break before I hurt someone.

[fraurosena]

2 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I saw this on the NBC Nightly News. The only defense I heard from the jail rang hollow to me.

So, she was under the care of medical professionals? When she was giving birth all by herself?! Bullshit.

 

2 hours ago, Destiny said:

Where the fuck were said professionals in the video? I didn't see them!

Well, they went through all the trouble of shoving a pad to give birth on under the door to her. That was mighty caring of them. 

[Jody]

2 hours ago, Destiny said:

Where the fuck were said professionals in the video? I didn't see them!

She was treated for being a drug addict. She had to take methadone for withdrawal (btw, she was in jail for violence of some sort) and that can trigger early labor. She had already faked labor before. 

The staff should have intervened earlier. The mother should have used birthcontrol, stayed off drugs, stayed the fuck away from committing violence and getting locked up in the first place. The mother brought herself into this situation. In prison, people are busy and things can go wrong. Stay the fuck out of prison.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

2 minutes ago, Jody said:

(btw, she was in jail for violence of some sort)

She was arrested for identity theft because she wrote checks on her sister's checking account. From the article I linked:

Quote

The plaintiff, now 27, was booked into Denver County Jail on July 14, 2018, over an identity theft charge for writing a check off her sister's account, Sanchez's lawyer, Mari Newman, told NBC News on Thursday.

Staying "the fuck out of prison" is always a great Plan A. But when that doesn't happen, people are not suddenly disposable.

And what about the newborn baby? Is his life automatically without value, because of his mom's problems? The way we as a society treat the most vulnerable (babies, elderly, differently abled) says a lot about who we are. For example, the 17 month old girl shot in the shooting rampage in Texas says a lot about our values. If we just say that we love babies, but we don't try to protect them, then we're all just a bunch of hypocrites.

[fraurosena]

12 minutes ago, Jody said:

She was treated for being a drug addict. She had to take methadone for withdrawal (btw, she was in jail for violence of some sort) and that can trigger early labor. She had already faked labor before. 

The staff should have intervened earlier. The mother should have used birthcontrol, stayed off drugs, stayed the fuck away from committing violence and getting locked up in the first place. The mother brought herself into this situation. In prison, people are busy and things can go wrong. Stay the fuck out of prison.

I think you should actually watch the linked video in the first post in this thread before making comments like this. I don't know where you got your information from, but nothing what you accuse her of is in that video.

You say she should have used birth control. But how do you know she's not happily married and that baby was very much planned?

Should she have stayed out of prison? Well, duh. But I don't think writing false checks suddenly dehumanizes a person, and takes away her rights to basic medical care. Do you?

I think it's bloody easy to say 'people are busy and things can go wrong'. What a stupid excuse for not being a basic human being, showing some common decency and giving care to a woman in labor. And they knew it wasn't false labor, why else shove that pad under the door after her water broke? She was being video taped... they knew, and did nothing. There is absolutely no excuse for that. They knowingly and willingly endangered her life and that of her as yet unborn child. If things had gone terribly wrong -- and they could have, things go wrong in labor very often -- they could have been prosecuted for manslaughter. She, or her child, could have died. Think about that for a minute, before simply saying 'stay the fuck out of prison'. 

Writing false checks should not lead to a death sentence. And certainly not for an innocent baby.

[Jody]

4 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

I think you should actually watch the linked video in the first post in this thread before making comments like this. I don't know where you got your information from, but nothing what you accuse her of is in that video.

You say she should have used birth control. But how do you know she's not happily married and that baby was very much planned?

Should she have stayed out of prison? Well, duh. But I don't think writing false checks suddenly dehumanizes a person, and takes away her rights to basic medical care. Do you?

I think it's bloody easy to say 'people are busy and things can go wrong'. What a stupid excuse for not being a basic human being, showing some common decency and giving care to a woman in labor. And they knew it wasn't false labor, why else shove that pad under the door after her water broke? She was being video taped... they knew, and did nothing. There is absolutely no excuse for that. They knowingly and willingly endangered her life and that of her as yet unborn child. If things had gone terribly wrong -- and they could have, things go wrong in labor very often -- they could have been prosecuted for manslaughter. She, or her child, could have died. Think about that for a minute, before simply saying 'stay the fuck out of prison'. 

Writing false checks should not lead to a death sentence. And certainly not for an innocent baby.

From your reaction it seems that you have trouble reading. I said: “the staff should have intervened earlier”. So all your blahblah in paragraph 4 is meaningless.

Aside from the (non) action of the staff, the mother in question also bears some responsability for what led to her predicament. 

Happily married? She was treated with methadone, so no. Planning a baby whist being treated for addiction is a sign of severe mental illness, so this mama is either stark raving mad or the baby wasn’t planned.

41 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

She was arrested for identity theft because she wrote checks on her sister's checking account. From the article I linked:

Staying "the fuck out of prison" is always a great Plan A. But when that doesn't happen, people are not suddenly disposable.

And what about the newborn baby? Is his life automatically without value, because of his mom's problems? The way we as a society treat the most vulnerable (babies, elderly, differently abled) says a lot about who we are. For example, the 17 month old girl shot in the shooting rampage in Texas says a lot about our values. If we just say that we love babies, but we don't try to protect them, then we're all just a bunch of hypocrites.

Again: I said quite clearly that the staff should have intervened. 

I never said the mother was diosable, this is your fantasy talking. I only said that the mother ALSO bears some responsability for her predicament. 

I said nothing about the baby being without value. That is an incredible sick fantasy in you mind. So fuck you and your third paragraph.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

22 minutes ago, Jody said:

Happily married? She was treated with methadone, so no.

Source? It wasn't in the linked story.

Btw some people are chronically on methadone, birth control may fail or be too expensive. None of the above means that she couldn't have been married.

25 minutes ago, Jody said:

I said nothing about the baby being without value. That is an incredible sick fantasy in you mind. So fuck you and your third paragraph.

You implied it. In your opinion the mother wasn't worthy of a better treatment and it's her fault if she got what she got. In this you completely ignored that no medical care for mom is no medical care for baby too. You implied that baby was not worth it too.

[fraurosena]

32 minutes ago, Jody said:

From your reaction it seems that you have trouble reading.

Right back at you, sweetheart.

[Jody]

6 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Right back at you, sweetheart.

Which part?

14 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Source? It wasn't in the linked story.

Btw some people are chronically on methadone, birth control may fail or be too expensive. None of the above means that she couldn't have been married.

You implied it. In your opinion the mother wasn't worthy of a better treatment and it's her fault if she got what she got. In this you completely ignored that no medical care for mom is no medical care for baby too. You implied that baby was not worth it too.

I never implied the mother did not have a right to medical treatment, which is why I specifically stated: “the staff should have intervened earlier”. Literal quote proving your fantasy wrong. 

“....Sanchez’s pregnancy, the lawsuit also notes that Sanchez was prescribed and taking methadone to prevent opiate withdrawal symptoms and premature labor associated with the withdrawals”. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lawsuit-denver-jail-woman-gave-birth_n_5d697406e4b0cdfe056fbfd4

So Sanchez did get medical attention whilst in jail, but not enough, which is why I said that the staff should have intervened earlier. 

@laPapessaGiovanna It’s really fucked up that you think that my opinion is that the baby was not worth getting medical care. Truly absolutely fucked up. That is some sick Reading stuff into things that aren’t remotely there. I hope the baby grows up happy, healthy and with loving parents. 

[Jody]

@laPapessaGiovanna Nothing to say now that I’ve called you out on your bullshit? Accuse me again of wishing ill on an innocent baby you deranged fuck.

[Gobsmacked]

A. I think we are feeding a troll here folks. 

B. Is 'Jody' a Denver prison guard

c. All of the above?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

50 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

A. I think we are feeding a troll here folks. 

B. Is 'Jody' a Denver prison guard

c. All of the above?

From her posting history she's a woman who had painful losses and can't accept that people who suffered but in the end had healthy babies can have some right to complain about the circumstances of their pregnancies and birth, because they should shut up since they had a healthy and living baby at the end.

She is hurting and fj isn't the right place to find help.

[Jody]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

From her posting history she's a woman who had painful losses and can't accept that people who suffered but in the end had healthy babies can have some right to complain about the circumstances of their pregnancies and birth, because they should shut up since they had a healthy and living baby at the end.

She is hurting and fj isn't the right place to find help.

Thank you. Your reply is both thoughtful and kind. 

I am not a troll, nor a hater or a racist. I have a different opinion. I do not agree with what happened, but the woman in question ALSO bears responsability for her OWN actions. 

I don’t think everybody who’s had a healthy baby should shut up. I was referring, as I’ve posted earlier, to my SIL who has lied about having a miscarriage, lied about having fertility problems, disguised her anorexia as pre eclampsia and made a huge fuss about giving birth at 37 weeks and calling her daughter a preemie. 

None of that reflects either on you or any other poster on this forum. 

I do not seek help from FJ, nor do I see myself as “hurting”. I am a human being with many different emotions, and my posts reflect that. Saying that I need help while I have repeatedly said that I agree with other posters, but I have a different outtake on this, is quite condescending. You don’t know me, nor have you asked me any questions.

You say things like “can’t accept that people who have suffered....”; I have posted that I really feel for people who have had to leave their preemie in the hospital. The fear is awful. And that doesn’t leave after the baby is home either. I have said only that I know of people who have lied and aggerated their “fertility” and birth issues. How is that opinion any reason for you to say I need help?

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Jody said:

I have said only that I know of people who have lied and aggerated their “fertility” and birth issues. How is that opinion any reason for you to say I need help?

Well...you're only 41 posts into this site and already you have, by your own account, made a post that was "literally screaming with grief over the babies that I lost" and called someone who downvoted the post because they disagreed with your draconian views on demonstrating grief a "a miserable excuse for a human being." 

Bit extreme there, wouldn't you say? 

You also didn't specify that you are only speaking of your sister. Again, I quote:

Spoiler

Thanks. My point was that right after a loss, people could be more considerate and just not complain. I referred not so much to a real trauma as to people being overly dramatic about a birth where they leave the hospital with no complications. I know you try to be empathic, but if you have a “ take home baby” with no issues, you do not get to complain when I’ve just had a miscarriage. You just don’t.

No only do you believe you get to dictate who gets to complain and who doesn't, you are also apparently qualified to diagnose PTSD, and anyone who hasn't suffered exactly what you have could not possibly have it: 

Spoiler

Please, just stop complaining. You have a child and you’re having another. There’s no ptsd. If you really had ptsd, there’s no fucking way in hell you should be pregnant and posting cute pregnancy reveal photo’s. Just no.

And there's the strange belief you seem to be under that one cannot be legally married while on methadone? I'm still trying to put  that together.

You also called LaP a "deranged fuck" when she disagreed with you. We do quite a bit of disagreeing here. If you are an adult and that is your way of handling disagreement or criticism, 1. yes, you may need some help, and 2. this may not be the place for you. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by nausicaa

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, Jody said:

The mother brought herself into this situation. In prison, people are busy and things can go wrong

Let's not sink to victim blaming. It doesn't matter if she is in jail. What matters is that the system put her life and the life of her baby in danger. That is all on them. One does not go into jail with the expectations that they will let you suffer and risk your life and the life of your baby. She could reasonably expect to have been treated while giving birth. It really doesn't matter if she did stuff to place herself in jail, it isn't her fault that she was left to give birth alone. The fault is entirely on the prison system. And the answer is lets not have a fucking prison system that treats people who need help like this. Not that people who go to jail deserve being treated like shit because they should have just stayed out of jail.  

 

[fraurosena]

42 minutes ago, Jody said:

I do not agree with what happened, but the woman in question ALSO bears responsability for her OWN actions. 

I'm going to address this part of your post, because it epitomizes what I believe is wrong in your opinion. I believe you when you say that you don't agree with what happened, and I'm glad you see that too. What I find egregious though, is that you seem to be victim blaming here. You are saying that because her actions got her into prison she somehow also bears some blame for being made to have her child in a dirty jail cell without getting any medical assistance whatsoever.

That is like saying it's a woman's fault for getting raped because she was wearing a skirt that showed her knees and purposely aroused the man who raped her.

That is like saying that a child that is put into their room for being naughty doesn't deserve help when they happen to accidentally hurt themselves while they are in their room, because they are being punished. 

Yes, this woman got caught breaking the law, and yes, she was deservedly put into prison for it. THAT was her punishment. It in no way, shape or form, made her deserve to deliver her child without any help at all. Being a drug addict (or not) does not make her deserve to deliver her child without any help. Being pregnant whilst breaking the law, did not make her deserve to deliver her child alone without help.

There is absolutely no excuse for being forced to deliver a child in a dirty jail cell without medical aid. None.

 

I see that @formergothardite posted much of the same as I was typing and posting this.

Edited September 2, 2019 by fraurosena

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Yes, this woman got caught breaking the law, and yes, she was deservedly put into prison for it. THAT was her punishment. It in no way, shape or form, made her deserve to deliver her child without any help at all. Being a drug addict (or not) does not make her deserve to deliver her child without any help. Being pregnant whilst breaking the law, did not make her deserve to deliver her child alone without help.

Exactly. It is horrifying to act like this woman is to blame for being mistreated by the prison system. The punishment for her crime doesn't involve having her life put in danger has she attempts to give birth all alone. She shares no blame for a system that failed. The blame falls on the prison. All of it. And to act like she does plays into the narrative that women deserve it when bad things happen to them. 

 

[Jody]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

 

Well...you're only 41 posts into this site and already you have, by your own account, made a post that was "literally screaming with grief over the babies that I lost" and called someone who downvoted the post because they disagreed with your draconian views on demonstrating grief a "a miserable excuse for a human being." 

Wee bit extreme there, wouldn't you say? 

You also didn't specify that you are only speaking if your sister. Again, I quote:

  Hide contents

Thanks. My point was that right after a loss, people could be more considerate and just not complain. I referred not so much to a real trauma as to people being overly dramatic about a birth where they leave the hospital with no complications. I know you try to be empathic, but if you have a “ take home baby” with no issues, you do not get to complain when I’ve just had a miscarriage. You just don’t.

 

No only do you believe you get to dictate who gets to complain and who doesn't, you are also apparently qualified to diagnose PTSD, and-- shocker-- anyone who hasn't suffered exactly what you have could not possibly have it: 
 

  Hide contents

 

Please, just stop complaining. You have a child and you’re having another. There’s no ptsd. If you really had ptsd, there’s no fucking way in hell you should be pregnant and posting cute pregnancy reveal photo’s. Just no.

 

And there's the strange belief you seem to be under that one cannot be legally married while on methadone? I'm still trying to put  that together.

You also called LaP a "deranged fuck" when she disagreed with you. We do quite a bit of disagreeing here. If you are an adult and that is your way of handling disagreement or criticism, 1. you may need some help, and 2. this may not be the place for you. 

One post. Look at the others too please. I do find it weird that someone who is expecting her fifth is downvoting a post about loss. Thanks for your condolences by the way. 

Again and again, I do not dictate others feelings, i talked about my SIL. This does not reflect on other posters. 

Not being legally married while on methadone? I think i made it clear that you can’t be HAPPILY married while on drugs, but hey, i guess that’s just insane.

i called the fact that @laPapessaGiovanna said that I thought the baby did not deserve medical care complete and utter BS. I still do. Reading that into my post was completely fucked up. I repeatedly said: I do not agree with what happened, the staff should have intervened sooner. No fucking where in hell did I say the baby wasn’t worthy of care. Nowhere. To say that I wish ill upon an innocent child is fucking BS.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

10 minutes ago, Jody said:

I do find it weird that someone who is expecting her fifth is downvoting a post about loss. Thanks for your condolences by the way. 

Again and again, I do not dictate others feelings, i talked about my SIL. This does not reflect on other posters. 

For real? You don't dictate other people's feelings but if a pregnant woman dares to downvote a post where you were judging other people's ways to live and express pregnancy issues then you call her a miserable excuse for a human being. Got it. (ETA btw your post made zero references to your sil, zero references also in the following post where you reply to Hermione Sparrow)

As for the rest I won't discuss, you wouldn't understand because there's no person more deaf than the one who doesn't want to listen.

Edited September 2, 2019 by laPapessaGiovanna

[nausicaa]

5 minutes ago, Jody said:

One post. Look at the others too please. I do find it weird that someone who is expecting her fifth is downvoting a post about loss. Thanks for your condolences by the way. 

Again and again, I do not dictate others feelings, i talked about my SIL. This does not reflect on other posters. 

1. I quoted multiple posts of yours in my original post. It's not just one post that's the problem...

2. You don't know why that poster downvoted you. I don't want to speak for SecularDaisy, but I sincerely doubt she was downvoting your loss, but rather the way you seem to think you get to police others' grief. Maybe it was by accident. Maybe she just doesn't like you. None of those things make her a "miserable excuse for a human being."

3. I didn't realize I was required to give condolences to you. Especially as I don't know you personally or the details of your story. I am also not speaking of your losses, but rather your attitude and interactions on this site. 

4. You did not just speak of your SIL. Look at your posts that I directly quoted above. You are speaking of everyone and do not clarify you only mean one person. You very clearly feel entitled to dictate the feelings of others. 

[Loveday]

@Jody

 Saying this:

Quote

The staff should have intervened earlier.

 

does not make it okay to then say all this:

Quote

The mother should have used birthcontrol, stayed off drugs, stayed the fuck away from committing violence and getting locked up in the first place. The mother brought herself into this situation. In prison, people are busy and things can go wrong. Stay the fuck out of prison.

You're victim-blaming. In a big way. Yes, it's her fault she's in prison. It is NOT her 'fault' she's pregnant, and it is NOT her 'fault' she's in labor and has to deliver her baby there. It's the responsibility of the staff--however 'busy' they are--to care for her properly. It's their fucking JOB. And shoving a pad under the door is not proper care, and you well know it. So don't give me that shit about 'the staff should have intervened earlier.' Your next words tell me you didn't mean a word of that, no matter what you've posted since. 

Go ahead. Downvote me. I don't give a fuck.