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Gwen Shamblin Lara 9: Perfecting Hypocrisy


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2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Gwen is better than anyone at doing unto others because she is a perfect person who always says the right thing

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Do Unto Others

September 04, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

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So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Matthew 7:12

The Golden Rule was written by God, and almost all etiquette rules have been stolen words from the Bible…for true etiquette is to do to others as you would have them do to you. This is one of those subjects that is so deep and so vast. It is so time-consumingly intricate trying to think about all your emotions, wants and dislikes…and then thinking about someone else’s emotions, wants and dislikes, yet it is so ignored or just considered passé or unnecessary.        

Oh, to explore exactly what another human would want and need. We instinctively know what we would want. We all want and need thoughtfulness, caring, empathy, concern, love and affection, but the process of automatically employing that principle onto the person standing right beside you takes a surrendered and charitable mind. It takes a tremendously disciplined, thoughtful adult or child who can put down their phone, put down their electronics or their computer games, and instead give thought to the needs of others. They are considerate, so they can be confident about knowing what others would want, and they are able to extrapolate their own feelings onto another. They are confident enough that they have read the needs and emotions of the human being beside them, so now they can act and express and provide and extend, touch and love, and give the support that person needs. These people who are always salt and never pepper…they always make things better, and they never offend. They always think the best of others. At the same time, they always tell the Truth about what the Heavens want, holding that line to be able to give graciously without offending the other person. Those people are so valuable, and they are rare.

 

 

She is also very humble.

Gwen Shamblin Lara is showing her ignorance , for the golden rule , aka law of reciprocity , is found in most every religion , including those preceding the time of Jesus .  http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html  

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1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I believe this is her theme song:

 lyrics:

  Reveal hidden contents

Back a few months ago, I was headlinin' a great big nightclub
And they put me up a couple days early, I came in a couple days early
And they put me up in what they call the "Star Suite"
Now here I am, headlinin' in one of the biggest nightclubs
In the country and I wake up at eight o'clock in the morning
In this "Star Suite" all by myself"

"Awwww"

"Yeah, that's what I said, "Awwwww."

"But I did what I've always done, man, to cheer myself up
I picked up my guitar, I sat down and I wrote me a little song
Now this is how it feels to be alone at the top of the hill
Tryin' to figure out why"

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can

I used to have a girlfriend,
But I guess she just couldn't compete,
With all of these love-starved women,
Who keep cowering at my feet
Oh I probably could find me another,
But I guess they're all in awe of me
Who cares?
I never get lonesome
Cause I treasure my own company

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
(I can't wait to look in the mirror)
I can't wait to look in the mirror
(Help me out now! Come on)
I get better looking each day
(To know me is to what?)
To know me is to love me
(Must be a hell of man)
I must be a hell of a man
(Oh Lord It's hard)
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
(When you're doing what?)
We're doing the best that we can

I guess you could say I'm a loner
A cowboy out lone, tough, and proud
I could have lots of friends if I wanted
But then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd
Some folks say that I'm egotistical
Hell I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do
With the way that I fill out my skin tight with jeans

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
(When you're perfect in every way)
When you're perfect in every way
(Can't wait to look in the mirror)
I can't wait to look in the mirror
('Cause I get better looking)
I get better looking each day
(To know me is to what?)
To know me is to love me
(Must be a hell of man)
I must be a hell of a man
(Oh Lord It's hard)
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
(What are we doing?)
We're doing the best that we can

We're doing the best that we can

Source: LyricFind

Songwriters: Mac Davis

 

Aside from its casual use of the H word , this song could replace not only the official song of the Church of the Nazarene .   

, but also the unofficial theme song  

 

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Gwen says:

Quote

These people who are always salt and never pepper…they always make things better, and they never offend. 

But, I like black pepper. :56247995bedbc_PoutG: In my 40s, I've almost gotten addicted to the stuff. I also like a little bit of peppery-ness in people's personalities. Like many things, it's better in moderate amounts, but what a bland world without pepper!

Yes, I get that she's tying in to Matthew 5:13, "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot." But I'm feeling peppery. :angelic-halofell:

Edited by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
added emoji
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47 minutes ago, Sobeknofret said:

Heretic! Nothing can replace that song! Kenny Loggins is balm upon a wounded soul! ?

I referenced that song , as an actual Nazarene pastor had joked to our youth group at the time that it's the Nazarene theme song , given the church's well known longstanding opposition to dancing , well " carnal dances " anyway .  In that regard , this song would be especially revolutionary .  

Speaking of which , the movie this song was taken from , is based upon actual events .   https://m.okgazette.com/oklahoma/footloose-the-okg-true-hollywood-story/Content?oid=2946964   Notably , among those opposed to the  holding of the prom was the Church of Christ , which incidentally is the church Gwen was a part of .

Quote

Craig Branch, director of Apologetics Resource Center in Birmingham, Alabama, believes the weekly messages that Shamblin has written on the Weigh Down Web site reflect her Church of Christ background, which he says historically has had an ambiguous view of the Trinity. Branch says the writings reflect an extreme view of lordship, a mixing of works and grace, and a "restoration of New Testament Christianity" movement that relegates other beliefs as apostate.

"My background is Church of Christ and that's where all this came from," Shamblin says, noting that hymnals, for instance, change the words of "Holy, Holy, Holy" from "God in three persons, blessed Trinity" to "God over all and blessed eternally."

http://www.bpnews.net/6481/thomas-nelson-pulls-plug-on-gwen-shamblins-book   See how I tied everything together , so that we're now back on topic ?  

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6 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I believe this is her theme song:

 lyrics:

  Reveal hidden contents

Back a few months ago, I was headlinin' a great big nightclub
And they put me up a couple days early, I came in a couple days early
And they put me up in what they call the "Star Suite"
Now here I am, headlinin' in one of the biggest nightclubs
In the country and I wake up at eight o'clock in the morning
In this "Star Suite" all by myself"

"Awwww"

"Yeah, that's what I said, "Awwwww."

"But I did what I've always done, man, to cheer myself up
I picked up my guitar, I sat down and I wrote me a little song
Now this is how it feels to be alone at the top of the hill
Tryin' to figure out why"

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can

I used to have a girlfriend,
But I guess she just couldn't compete,
With all of these love-starved women,
Who keep cowering at my feet
Oh I probably could find me another,
But I guess they're all in awe of me
Who cares?
I never get lonesome
Cause I treasure my own company

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
(I can't wait to look in the mirror)
I can't wait to look in the mirror
(Help me out now! Come on)
I get better looking each day
(To know me is to what?)
To know me is to love me
(Must be a hell of man)
I must be a hell of a man
(Oh Lord It's hard)
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
(When you're doing what?)
We're doing the best that we can

I guess you could say I'm a loner
A cowboy out lone, tough, and proud
I could have lots of friends if I wanted
But then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd
Some folks say that I'm egotistical
Hell I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do
With the way that I fill out my skin tight with jeans

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
(When you're perfect in every way)
When you're perfect in every way
(Can't wait to look in the mirror)
I can't wait to look in the mirror
('Cause I get better looking)
I get better looking each day
(To know me is to what?)
To know me is to love me
(Must be a hell of man)
I must be a hell of a man
(Oh Lord It's hard)
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
(What are we doing?)
We're doing the best that we can

We're doing the best that we can

Source: LyricFind

Songwriters: Mac Davis

 

Dang it. Now I have an ear worm.

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7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

for true etiquette is to do to others as you would have them do to you.

Like when you make people sit in the back of church or stay home and watch service because they're "fat"?

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

This is one of those subjects that is so deep and so vast. It is so time-consumingly intricate trying to think about all your emotions, wants and dislikes…and then thinking about someone else’s emotions, wants and dislikes, yet it is so ignored or just considered passé or unnecessary.  

Nope. This is a simple one. Don't be a dick. Ta-da!

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

It takes a tremendously disciplined, thoughtful adult or child who can put down their phone

Anyone else remember the video where Gwen's granddaughter was glued to her phone and not helping at all during the setup and love bombing of another child? 

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

These people who are always salt and never pepper

I am pepper but Gwen makes me salty AF.

5bAx9iS.thumb.jpg.cfdca1bfd513e373ba8878476bc09a24.jpg

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18 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I believe this is her theme song:

 lyrics:

  Reveal hidden contents

Back a few months ago, I was headlinin' a great big nightclub
And they put me up a couple days early, I came in a couple days early
And they put me up in what they call the "Star Suite"
Now here I am, headlinin' in one of the biggest nightclubs
In the country and I wake up at eight o'clock in the morning
In this "Star Suite" all by myself"

"Awwww"

"Yeah, that's what I said, "Awwwww."

"But I did what I've always done, man, to cheer myself up
I picked up my guitar, I sat down and I wrote me a little song
Now this is how it feels to be alone at the top of the hill
Tryin' to figure out why"

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror
Cause I get better looking each day
To know me is to love me
I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
But I'm doing the best that I can

I used to have a girlfriend,
But I guess she just couldn't compete,
With all of these love-starved women,
Who keep cowering at my feet
Oh I probably could find me another,
But I guess they're all in awe of me
Who cares?
I never get lonesome
Cause I treasure my own company

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
When you're perfect in every way
(I can't wait to look in the mirror)
I can't wait to look in the mirror
(Help me out now! Come on)
I get better looking each day
(To know me is to what?)
To know me is to love me
(Must be a hell of man)
I must be a hell of a man
(Oh Lord It's hard)
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
(When you're doing what?)
We're doing the best that we can

I guess you could say I'm a loner
A cowboy out lone, tough, and proud
I could have lots of friends if I wanted
But then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd
Some folks say that I'm egotistical
Hell I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do
With the way that I fill out my skin tight with jeans

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble
(When you're perfect in every way)
When you're perfect in every way
(Can't wait to look in the mirror)
I can't wait to look in the mirror
('Cause I get better looking)
I get better looking each day
(To know me is to what?)
To know me is to love me
(Must be a hell of man)
I must be a hell of a man
(Oh Lord It's hard)
Oh Lord It's hard to be humble,
(What are we doing?)
We're doing the best that we can

We're doing the best that we can

Source: LyricFind

Songwriters: Mac Davis

 

The first time I heard this song was when I was 14 and at a Joey Perrone concert. Even then I remember thinking it was the perfect song for him, he certainly had tickets on himself. And then my friend lunged at the stage, grabbed his legs and nearly dragged him offstage and I was mortified. In retrospect it was hilarious, but thank God my friend's taste in men improved with age!

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If you want others to treat you like a cult leader you gotta do unto Gwen and treat her like a cult leader 

Spoiler

 

The Golden Rule

September 05, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

To employ the Golden Rule is the most important lesson in your life. You cannot toss it aside as just one more little fact. If you learn nothing else in your home, in school, in Church, thru all the sermons and all the reading of the Bible, except learning to love God and to do unto others as you would want them to do unto you…then you have an essential, profound foundation and purpose.

If we all would do to others as we would have others do to us, then from the youngest to the oldest, we would be trained automatically in the world’s etiquette and in God’s true etiquette. Stop expecting others to serve you, and instead serve others. You take this step first. Then a miracle occurs, and your eyes are opened to how much is being done for you by others and by God.

 

The golden rule is a great start but sometimes I think it's just another kind of selfishness to assume that what I want is what everybody wants or needs and what everyone deserves. I am not quite egocentric enough to believe that my desires cover all the bases and everyone wants exactly the same things as I do. 

(And sometimes I want things that aren't good for me and you should probably use your own discretion about whether it's a good idea to do it unto people in general)

Edited by AmazonGrace
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I think Gwen Shamblin Lara reputation is really taking a hit here. She is the perfect example of love and generosity. Look what she's done for her husband. Took him from poverty basically. Bought him a car, gave him a job, invested in a private plane for him, plane lessons, vacations. She's just the best! 

Before the nasty comments start, I am joking. 

I believe Gwen was just in the Bahamas-via Instagram. So would she say that the hurricane that destroyed much of it was caused by their sin? Because AOC says its climate change. I wonder if Gwen had predicted this would happen? I wonder if she witnessed to the Bahama citizens about her life changing, pure love? And more than anything I wonder what their first thoughts were when they first laid eyes on her. 

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5 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

If you want others to treat you like a cult leader you gotta do unto Gwen and treat her like a cult leader 

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The Golden Rule

September 05, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

To employ the Golden Rule is the most important lesson in your life. You cannot toss it aside as just one more little fact. If you learn nothing else in your home, in school, in Church, thru all the sermons and all the reading of the Bible, except learning to love God and to do unto others as you would want them to do unto you…then you have an essential, profound foundation and purpose.

If we all would do to others as we would have others do to us, then from the youngest to the oldest, we would be trained automatically in the world’s etiquette and in God’s true etiquette. Stop expecting others to serve you, and instead serve others. You take this step first. Then a miracle occurs, and your eyes are opened to how much is being done for you by others and by God.

 

The golden rule is a great start but sometimes I think it's just another kind of selfishness to assume that what I want is what everybody wants or needs and what everyone deserves. I am not quite egocentric enough to believe that my desires cover all the bases and everyone wants exactly the same things as I do. 

(And sometimes I want things that aren't good for me and you should probably use your own discretion about whether it's a good idea to do it unto people in general)

Years ago, I learned about something called The Platinum Rule: Treat others the way THEY want to be treated, not the way YOU want to be treated.

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23 hours ago, SuperNova said:

Like when you make people sit in the back of church or stay home and watch service because they're "fat"?

Nope. This is a simple one. Don't be a dick. Ta-da!

Anyone else remember the video where Gwen's granddaughter was glued to her phone and not helping at all during the setup and love bombing of another child? 

I am pepper but Gwen makes me salty AF.

5bAx9iS.thumb.jpg.cfdca1bfd513e373ba8878476bc09a24.jpg

Yes, I remember that kid who was glued to the phone. They all are stuck on phones at the Remnant Fellowship cult. It starts with the very young kids being forced to be present during the horrifying assemblies. Often the parents give the little ones a phone to watch videos on until Gwen Shamblin Lara's special form of torture, her "message", is over.

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55 minutes ago, NarcissismKills said:

Yes, I remember that kid who was glued to the phone. They all are stuck on phones at the Remnant Fellowship cult. It starts with the very young kids being forced to be present during the horrifying assemblies. Often the parents give the little ones a phone to watch videos on until Gwen Shamblin Lara's special form of torture, her "message", is over.

This is so completely unsurprising to me. Their children must be quiet, still, and well behaved for so many rambling sermons that they have to do something! I remember having a hard time listening in church once a week at church! I can’t imagine all the RF activities there are each week where the children must be perfect little robots. Poor kids. 

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2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is so completely unsurprising to me. Their children must be quiet, still, and well behaved for so many rambling sermons that they have to do something! I remember having a hard time listening in church once a week at church! I can’t imagine all the RF activities there are each week where the children must be perfect little robots. Poor kids. 

I feel like all they learn is how to be perfect in public...

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9 minutes ago, Blue said:

I feel like all they learn is how to be perfect in public...

Isn’t that what their parents do? They are just modeling the acceptable behavior for the children. I’m sure they realize the change in their parents when they are at an RF event and when they are at home. That’s what I see when I look at pictures from RF events. A ton of people wearing “masks” and not truly being themselves. 

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31 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Isn’t that what their parents do? They are just modeling the acceptable behavior for the children. I’m sure they realize the change in their parents when they are at an RF event and when they are at home. That’s what I see when I look at pictures from RF events. A ton of people wearing “masks” and not truly being themselves. 

For sure... and what's bad is that TO A POINT it makes sense. Obviously when my kids are in public I want them to be on their best behavior. When they're in public they're not just representing themselves; they're representing their parents.

But what I don't want is for my kids to feel that they have to be the picture of perfection in public. Do you have to be respectful and kind? Yes... but if you're having a cruddy day it's okay to not be bubbly and smiley. Do I want you to help other out? Yes... but you are also allowed to have some "you" time and not devote every waking second to others. 

Especially because that's how you get kids who know how to play the system in public while being jerks in the background. 

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1 minute ago, Blue said:

For sure... and what's bad is that TO A POINT it makes sense. Obviously when my kids are in public I want them to be on their best behavior. When they're in public they're not just representing themselves; they're representing their parents.

But what I don't want is for my kids to feel that they have to be the picture of perfection in public. Do you have to be respectful and kind? Yes... but if you're having a cruddy day it's okay to not be bubbly and smiley. Do I want you to help other out? Yes... but you are also allowed to have some "you" time and not devote every waking second to others. 

Especially because that's how you get kids who know how to play the system in public while being jerks in the background. 

It’s part of being in a cult in my opinion. Everyone in ATI/IBLP had to present a very happy face at all times. Even if they were unhappy. I think it’s damaging and many cults require a perfect or always happy exterior in public.

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6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is so completely unsurprising to me. Their children must be quiet, still, and well behaved for so many rambling sermons that they have to do something! I remember having a hard time listening in church once a week at church! I can’t imagine all the RF activities there are each week where the children must be perfect little robots. Poor kids. 

So few things that are done to make sure it looks like the children are always perfect. 

1) There are other rooms in the church where people with rowdy kids or younger kids can watch from. You are encouraged to go there if your child would interrupt service. This means most younger kids are not in the main  sanctuary room during service. 

2) Many of the teen girls are asked/voluntold to watch kids during services so that the parents could listen better. If the child is seated in the sanctuary and gets rowdy, someone is expected to leave with that child right away. 

3) younger children are taught that getting to sit in the sanctuary is a big deal and they can only do that if they behave. Tie that to a strong authority line message, at a certain age some kids connect those dots and want to make parents happy so they try as hard as they can to sit still. 

4) Most parents have toys and things for kids to do during the services such as coloring, sticker books, phone games, etc. Gwen has even released a few kids books that are very widely used ?

5) once the service is over, the kids have so much pent up energy that there are just kids running around the back lawn and playground area which makes sense BECAUSE THEY HAD TO SIT STILL FOR HOURS. I always felt bad for them having to sit that long. I even had trouble as an adult listening for that long.

Anyways, I had to watch some kids during services for close to 6 years but atleast I enjoyed it. Some of the other girls did not but still had to because they were told to. 

Edited by RFsurvivor
More words. Hit send to early
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Yesterday we learned that we should treat people the way we want to be treated. Today we learn that going by what humans want is a bad thing.

Attention all unemployed single people: If you made God's business look good you would have been given a good job and a spouse.

Spoiler

 

The Foundation of Good Etiquette

September 06, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

While the world teaches secular etiquette and rules that are politically correct, it is time for a comeback to true etiquette as laid out by God. Doing what the Heavens expect was given to Moses and the Prophets and Christ and his Apostles. It was based on the Ten Commandments and Mark 12, which all boiled down to love—love that is shown thru genuine compassion for God and for humans, devoid of harsh judgment, for after all, even after we all have sinned, God has given us forgiveness and compassion. I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you in righteousness and justice, in love and compassion. Hosea 2:19

The world will talk about having respect for others, being honest and trustworthy, putting others at ease and showing kindness to everyone—that is all a part of universal success classes of Western culture—but when you leave out God and His never-changing Word, these standards are ever-changing because they are based on what man wants. The irony is that when you care to make God and His Business look good thru your words and behavior, you will attract a like-minded spouse and obtain a good job. You will win over both Saints and the world with your good behavior. Love, indeed, is the summary of the Law.

 

 

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9 hours ago, RFsurvivor said:

So few things that are done to make sure it looks like the children are always perfect. 

1) There are other rooms in the church where people with rowdy kids or younger kids can watch from. You are encouraged to go there if your child would interrupt service. This means most younger kids are not in the main  sanctuary room during service. 

2) Many of the teen girls are asked/voluntold to watch kids during services so that the parents could listen better. If the child is seated in the sanctuary and gets rowdy, someone is expected to leave with that child right away. 

3) younger children are taught that getting to sit in the sanctuary is a big deal and they can only do that if they behave. Tie that to a strong authority line message, at a certain age some kids connect those dots and want to make parents happy so they try as hard as they can to sit still. 

4) Most parents have toys and things for kids to do during the services such as coloring, sticker books, phone games, etc. Gwen has even released a few kids books that are very widely used ?

5) once the service is over, the kids have so much pent up energy that there are just kids running around the back lawn and playground area which makes sense BECAUSE THEY HAD TO SIT STILL FOR HOURS. I always felt bad for them having to sit that long. I even had trouble as an adult listening for that long.

Anyways, I had to watch some kids during services for close to 6 years but atleast I enjoyed it. Some of the other girls did not but still had to because they were told to. 

I'm not trying to be rude, but why on Earth doesn't Gwen just having Sunday School classes for the youngest kids? Even maybe just 2nd grade and younger? I genuinely don't understand because she seems to be against it on a personal level.

If they're being removed or babysat... why don't you have them ACTUALLY have class? I know she's super big on it only being HER message, but I'm sure Gwen or one of her cronies could come up with some curriculum. If they're just coloring, take them to a classroom and have them color while their teacher reads them a part of the Bible in a way they can understand. 

I've never, ever understood her refusal to provide age-appropriate church services for the children. In our church the children are removed if they're being crazy rowdy during worship, but then they all leave to learn a lesson that's right for their age and to play games and get out energy.

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2 minutes ago, Blue said:

I'm not trying to be rude, but why on Earth doesn't Gwen just having Sunday School classes for the youngest kids? Even maybe just 2nd grade and younger? I genuinely don't understand because she seems to be against it on a personal level.

If they're being removed or babysat... why don't you have them ACTUALLY have class? I know she's super big on it only being HER message, but I'm sure Gwen or one of her cronies could come up with some curriculum. If they're just coloring, take them to a classroom and have them color while their teacher reads them a part of the Bible in a way they can understand. 

I've never, ever understood her refusal to provide age-appropriate church services for the children. In our church the children are removed if they're being crazy rowdy during worship, but then they all leave to learn a lesson that's right for their age and to play games and get out energy.

Oh I agree that would make sense. Her reasoning was that the Truth is universal and kids can receive the same message as the adults. 

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14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s part of being in a cult in my opinion. Everyone in ATI/IBLP had to present a very happy face at all times. Even if they were unhappy. I think it’s damaging and many cults require a perfect or always happy exterior in public.

And the JWs expect their kids to be perfectly behaved during their hours-long meetings at the Kingdom Hall, since they don’t believe in age-appropriate classes for them.

Edited by smittykins
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43 minutes ago, RFsurvivor said:

Oh I agree that would make sense. Her reasoning was that the Truth is universal and kids can receive the same message as the adults. 

It's just ridiculous. Yes... I'd say probably 6th grade and up will absorb some of it just sitting there. They may not really be following it, but they're getting little bits of the sermon here and there. But a 1st grader? They're not going to be able to get anything out of her incredibly random, confusing, and convoluted rambling.

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Catholics are welcome to have kids of all ages in the sanctuary during the entire mass. Even if they start to fuss. There are sometimes people or the priest that don't like this but as many priests say, they are our future so let them stay. I love it after the homily when a kid blurts something out when it is all quiet. Sometimes it is amen but usually it is something like "all done" (read that how a baby in a high chair would say all done when done with food), or "go now" or "why quiet?". I love hearing the little kids say something totally spontaneous during mass. I know the parents might be embarrassed but to me it reminds me that kids are just kids. But everyone has to remember Catholic services are only 1 hour or 1 hour 15 minutes, and some people still leave right after communion!

We do have the vestibule if someone feels the need to go there with a crying child but they don't have to go. My church also has religious ed from preschool -2nd grade during mass (not all Catholic churches are big enough to do this). There are options. 

As for the nonsense that kids understand what is begin taught the adults. That is what Church of Scientology says too. Did Gwen Shamblin Lara take that from Ron L. Hubbard? 

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16 hours ago, Blue said:

For sure... and what's bad is FexGqNDBK3g  OINT it makes sense. Obviously when my kids are in public I want them to be on their best behavior. When they're in public they're not just representing themselves; they're representing their parents.

But what I don't want is for my kids to feel that they have to be the picture of perfection in public. Do you have to be respectful and kind? Yes... but if you're having a cruddy day it's okay to not be bubbly and smiley. Do I want you to help other out? Yes... but you are also allowed to have some "you" time and not devote every waking second to others. 

Especially because that's how you get kids who know how to play the system in public while being jerks in the background. 

From the standpoint of Christian perfectionism , not only are they representing their earthly parents , they are also to be mindful that they are representing the Heavenly Father , whom is watching over all that they do , say , and even think .  So they would be expected to reflect the Holiness of the Lord at all times , lest they suffer the consequences .  As I posted before , in another thread here , this was one of the songs we learned from an early age .  

We were also told that we might be the only impression of  Jesus that the world may see , so we must display the joy , and grace of the Lord at all times .  Be faithful not only in season , but also out of season .  Come what may , we are taught to say " It is well with my soul "  , and not murmur or complain .  And the way that we are told we will find joy is to put Jesus first , others second , and ourselves last .   

 

But , with all that being said , I have come to realize that although that is the ideal we are all to strive for , in reality , being  that we are human , and have feelings , and frailties , which fall short of such a lofty standard of pleasantness , and tranquility , it may seem at times that they are wearing a mask of hypocrisy , and have come across as being fools  , especially with regard to Gwen Shamblin .  

So I think that most Christians , those who aren't perfectionist Holiness people anyway , don't want you to put them on a pedestal .  As this one teen girl at the time  sang  , as a special music number , at a Nazarene church of all places , which offended my maternal grandmother  , " Don't look at me " .  

 

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