Joy & Austin 29: RV Living

[viii]

26 minutes ago, scoutsadie said:

(I have never heard this term. What does it mean?)

I think they meant wordsmith, aka someone skilled with molding and twisting words. 

A swordsmither literally means someone who makes swords. 

[fundieundies]

12 hours ago, bal maiden said:

Wait, we're giving them a pass on this, because Joy had a stillbirth?

 

Doesn't change the fact that her "We bought a house!" post is fundamentally disingenuous. Nowhere did she acknowledge that the house purchase was on extremely favourable terms from her parents. It's just more of the Duggars promoting a fake lifestyle; that post was clearly made to make us think they were buying it themselves. Leave and cleave, financial independence, debt free... It's all bollocks, smoke and mirrors, lying by omission. 

 I don't think anyone is giving them a pass because of the stillbirth, moreso because we genuinely don't know the details. They could've transferred titled for $10 but still paid JB in other ways. They could have paid JB in cash instalments over the last few months (which I can see them doing because they seem set on 'earning' things), had JB keep their TLC money to pay for the house, or renovated JB's other properties in exchange for money towards the house. Also, given that JB goes to great lengths to conceal his finances from public record, I'm willing to bet they paid way more than $10 for the house and the land.

Even if Joy is my pet fundie, I do think that they 'earned' the house. All the other kids were given move-in ready houses as wedding gifts except for Joy, they are the only two with real jobs flipping houses and seem to be financially independent to a greater degree. I'm very willing to believe they paid more than $10 for the house.

[kiwi]

I clearly have many thoughts on this issue. Personally, I hate liars, users, scammers, swordsmithers, and those whose behaviors barely skirt legal. IMO, JB Duggar is and does all of these things. Having a gaggle of kids that you cannot solely provide for on your own volition, and then selling that lifestyle is wrong; unethical and immoral. Expecting freebies and special consideration because of your family size is wrong and indicative of a lack of integrity. Working the system is not a legitimate job or source of income, or at least it shouldn’t be. Remember when JB and M were taking the herd to “kids eat free” nights at restaurants to the point where local businesses stopped having those   Events? People like this ruin things for everyone. If everyone followed JB’s plan it would be to the detriment of our society.

The whole kids eat free thing is so foreign to me. Here if there is ever anything like that its 1A:1K, so two adults couldnt get away with bringing in 19 kids to be fed. And a “kid” is under 12.

[scoutsadie]

20 minutes ago, viii said:

I think they meant wordsmith, aka someone skilled with molding and twisting words. 

A swordsmither literally means someone who makes swords. 

Ha, right.

As a lover of historical fiction, I knew the literal definition. It's just that we have folks from so many cultures and countries here that I figured it could be used as slang for something else. 

I will admit that my brain didn't even realize it might be a typo/autocorrect for "wordsmith"! ?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, kiwi said:

The whole kids eat free thing is so foreign to me. Here if there is ever anything like that its 1A:1K, so two adults couldnt get away with bringing in 19 kids to be fed. And a “kid” is under 12.

 

I think that was the case but they always had as many kids over 12 as they did under so it was easy to say 10 adult meals and 10 free kids meals. They were abusing/scamming the system.  We did a "kids eat free night" ONCE when our kids were younger, and NEVER EVER AGAIN did we go back, it was a flipping nightmare of asshole parents and screaming kids. I generally avoid any and all "free admission" anything because the people that show up. UGH. 

[grandmadugger]

Amy bought the house next door for a buck but there are people pissy that Joy bought her house for $10? 

[marmalade]

Amy's house was one of Grandma Mary's properties. So yeah, I think she also got a sweetheart deal.

[JillyO]

8 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think that was the case but they always had as many kids over 12 as they did under so it was easy to say 10 adult meals and 10 free kids meals. They were abusing/scamming the system.

I really don't see how that's "scamming the system." What's the difference between two adults doing to a "kids eat free" deal with their two children, and 10 adults/teenagers who pay going with 10 kids who don't pay? It's not like JB & M went with all the under-12 kids who ate for free and left the older kids at home. THAT would be sketchy. But they didn't do that. As much as I dislike JB & M, I really don't see the issue with this particular thing.

[bal maiden]

12 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

No, I think a lot of folks are just looking at the bigger picture of Joy has had a shittastick year, living in an RV with a toddler and husband, while working manual labor and caring for said toddler. While her siblings are sitting around filming stupid TLC shots and going on vacations. Also, her married brothers and sisters were basically given homes in move in condition upon marriage, she was NOT giving this. 

Then she had a still birth and is dealing with 4 siblings having little girls at around the same time she was due. So fuck it, cult or no cult if her parents wanted to give her a huge present just to make her happy they fucking can, this happens in and out of cults. 

Lastly, her and Austin are essentially rebuilding a house they seemingly paid $10 for, most people call this sweat equity, in that JB bought the house, what 10 years ago?He never got around to remodeling it, so he "sells" it to someone for pennies on the dollar and they have to deal with all the problems on the property now. Its a nice end of the year tax write off for him. 

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I don't think the issue is whether she's had a shit year and her parents decided to essentially give her a house. That's between them, provided it's all legal. My issue is that her post about it was lying by omission and entirely misleading about their lifestyle and supposed values. I don't think she should get a pass on that. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

13 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I don't think the issue is whether she's had a shit year and her parents decided to essentially give her a house. That's between them, provided it's all legal. My issue is that her post about it was lying by omission and entirely misleading about their lifestyle and supposed values. I don't think she should get a pass on that. 

Minutia, we honestly don't know what they paid for this house & land, JB is all about avoiding paying taxes (assumption in that he is a white republican man). So they only say X was paid, we don't know what back channel deal was made. Or if there was another deal behind the scenes. I just know that JB wheels and deals and moves money around to pay as little taxes as possible. With the death of his mom, he had extra income so he had to get some tax breaks, therefore,  "gifting" them a house didn't hurt him financially.   

[bal maiden]

I don't think it's trivial, I think it's emblematic of how the Duggars pretend to do and be one thing to sell their values and lifestyle to the public, whilst doing another thing. All part of the broader political strategy of their cult. 

[SassyPants]

4 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I don't think it's trivial, I think it's emblematic of how the Duggars pretend to do and be one thing to sell their values and lifestyle to the public, whilst doing another thing. All part of the broader political strategy of their cult. 

And for a long time, they have had a media platform to spread their message. I’d venture to say that many of the folks who might be attracted to a message of that sort could very well be hurt my adhering to JB’s approach. Young, uneducated people getting married, refusing to hold 9-5 jobs, or to work for anyone else, reproducing like rabbits all while screeching the name of JC at every opportunity does not generally lead to success. Your average Ben Seewald is not going to be given a house for a dollar, have a Tv show or work as a teacher for a gaggle of children.

It is absolutely wrong for JB to spread false information. It is wrong to lie by omission. I am sure the Duggars are familiar with “thou shall not lie.”

A better approach might be something like this: our family is a business. We work and get compensated as a business. Our dad is the CEO and he pays each participant. Sometimes he pays with cash and other times with other commodities. This year, Austin and I were compensated with a home for a very favorable price. We are enjoying renovating our new to us home. 

When a group operates in a shady manner, much like the Duggars have for many years, that group usually loses the benefit of the doubt, IMO. Being upfront and honest is always better, especially when you attempt to work under the guise of Jesus.

[SassyPants]

Does anyone know how JB and Michelle obtained their first little starter home? In one of the first episodes I remember them talking about the home and actually showing a photo. Dollars to donuts, JB and M received their first home in the exact same manner. From what I understand, GM Mary was a successful realtor and business woman, and perhaps even owned her own real estate firm? 

My in-laws were gifted a large, 5 bedroom home in one of the most expensive cities in the US. This one gift set them up for life. ( they were also hard working, employed, disciplined people). 

Will the second second generation be able to do the same for their children?

[Exposedknees]

When one of my kids was a teenager my Dad said that he would sell her his car for $1000- if she could save that much from her part-time job. When she did, he pulled a fast one and had her put the $$ her college savings and sold it for $1. My point is- many parents and grandparents who aren't famous "gift sell" stuff like this all of the time. It's totally normal for family transactions. 

[kmachete14]

I think the difference is, if my parents "gave" my husband and I another property they had, even if I paid $1 to transfer the title, I wouldn't proclaim that we "bought" it. But I do know plenty of people who take over parent's old homes, deceased relatives' homes, renovating old family properties, etc. It's not weird to give family members a leg up if you can spare it! 

Since it's concealed, we don't know how much Austin and Joy really "paid." Maybe they paid a nominal sum or maybe they paid a large one for two people who don't make that much money to begin with. Regardless, if Joy is using the word "bought," she must think it was a worthy amount. 

[SassyPants]

54 minutes ago, Exposedknees said:

When one of my kids was a teenager my Dad said that he would sell her his car for $1000- if she could save that much from her part-time job. When she did, he pulled a fast one and had her put the $$ her college savings and sold it for $1. My point is- many parents and grandparents who aren't famous "gift sell" stuff like this all of the time. It's totally normal for family transactions. 

Sure, but most don’t lie about it. We gifted our daughter and  SIL $$$ in lieu of a fancy wedding, as part of their wishes. Since they live outside the US, they were able to outright buy a home. We’ve never lied about where the money for the home came from.

Of course, our daughter and SIL also work FT to provide for themselves.

I love GPs approach. My own GPs matched 10 speed bike and first car purchase monies too. 

[Georgiana]

10 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I don't think the issue is whether she's had a shit year and her parents decided to essentially give her a house. That's between them, provided it's all legal. My issue is that her post about it was lying by omission and entirely misleading about their lifestyle and supposed values. I don't think she should get a pass on that. 

I'm with you on this.  The other kids were essentially gifted houses as well, but I don't recall them ever making false claims about them like this.  Maybe my memory on this is poor, but Jessa and Jill were both pretty up front about their homes being sweetheart, family deals.  So was Josh when he lived in Jessa's now house.  I don't recall Joe, Siah, or Josh with his later homes ever saying anything about them.  The only "We bought a house" post I can remember from a Duggar child is Jill's recent one, but it does appear the Dillards did buy that home on the open market.

So I agree: she may have been gifted a house like her siblings, but unlike her siblings, she's chosen to be disingenuous about it.  All the rest of them chose to be open about their family's help or humbly accept their blessing and say nothing.  Joy has chosen to distort the truth in order to ultimately promote and present as achievable a lifestyle that simply is NOT achievable unless you have a rich family who can give you houses for $10.

And that matters, because the Duggar kidults are some of the most visible examples of sheltered Christian homeschooling.  The narrative is that it's OK to inflict this level of educational neglect on kids because Jesus will bless them.  When people think that Joy and Austin are out there buying houses in their early 20s a few years after marriage, they DO look more successful than many of their mainline educated peers.  They're promoting the narrative that if people shelter their kids, educationally neglect them, and deny them a college education, that those kids will be set up to get married young and buy houses in their 20s.  That's been the promise forever.  It's what Gothard, the Maxwells, sheltered Christian Homeschool advocates have ALWAYS said.  

But that's a lie.  Joy and Austin aren't buying houses on the open market, and the likely couldn't.  Without their family's support, they likely would be living in an RV while flipping homes for many more years.  Without a $10 house and the ability to passively build equity, they may be trapped in a cycle of poverty...as many less well off graduates often are.  It's a lie, and it's a lie designed to entice people into a lifestyle that is directly harmful.  They're Christian angler fish.  

They're lying to promote a false prosperity gospel.  And as shown by the differing conduct of their other siblings when it comes to gaining houses, that's a sin even in their world.  

[Glasgowghirl]

Regardless of the amount paid they still technically bought it, I personally wouldn't go in to details about it online either but I get what people are saying with them being in the public eye. 

[nvmbr02]

I do think it is very possible that money has changed hands that is not on the public record. It isn't uncommon for that to happen when selling a property or a car to family member. I am not saying it is right or wrong. Just that it happens, generally for tax purposes. 

Sorta related... When my daughter got her learner's permit we bought a car for $8,000. The deal was half of it was a gift and she needed to pay us back the other $4,000. But it is a no- interest loan, with no set payments or payment schedule. She had $1,500 saved for a car already when it was purchased and has since made a few payments on it. The deal is when she is 18 and her loan from us is paid, we will sign the car over to her (and yes, she'll have to pay a $1 for it) and it is hers to keep, sell, trade in... whatever. No strings attached.  We have put all the money she has paid us in her college account. She doesn't know that yet, but she does check the statements about once a year so she may figure it out at some point. We didn't advertise it, but we aren't hiding it But here is the wrinkle in our plan we didn't think of. She is now thinking very strongly about going to school overseas and she wouldn't be able to bring the car with her. So she thinks she wants to sell it. Here's the kicker... her 14 year old brother wants to buy it! If we offer him the same deal (which there isn't any reason we shouldn't) we are going to buy the same darn car twice. At least at that point we will know its history and know it has been taken car of in the last couple of years at least. But I am not sure we really thought the grand plan all the way through. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by nvmbr02
typo

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

If we are going to nitpick lets nitpick, they paid JB $10 for the house and $10 for the land. So technically they bought a house & land. Also If they are paying for all the construction materials, appliances, flooring etc.. then yeah, they really BOUGHT a house, that shit isn't cheap. Cheaper than a move in ready home for sure, but it is a hell of a lot of work and time as well. 

My point was the married Duggerlings all seemingly were gifted or granted access to move in ready homes, Joy wasn't, so she's getting it now, and if that has anything to do with her still birth this year I DON'T CARE. 

 

[Georgiana]

14 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

My point was the married Duggerlings all seemingly were gifted or granted access to move in ready homes, Joy wasn't, so she's getting it now, and if that has anything to do with her still birth this year I DON'T CARE. 

 

Jessa had to do a considerable amount of renovations to their current house before or right after they moved in, some of which were for aesthetics, but some of which she mentioned were necessary due to things like mold issues.  So Joy's not the first Duggar to be given a house that needs considerable work that she'll be expected to foot the bill for.  But Jessa never claimed to have bought the house.  She was open about the house being essentially passed to her, and then her and Ben footing the bill for renovations.  Joy could have done the same.

Joy's not unique among her siblings in how she's gotten this house, but she is unique among her siblings on how she's choosing to present her windfall.  Joy's also been reported to be one of the Duggars most steeped in kool-aid, and I think we'd be foolish to not see her aberration from the Duggar norm as an attempt on her part to push a harmful agenda and her omission as an attempt to create a false appearance of prosperity in order to further their prosperity gospel.  

[SassyPants]

19 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

If we are going to nitpick lets nitpick, they paid JB $10 for the house and $10 for the land. So technically they bought a house & land. Also If they are paying for all the construction materials, appliances, flooring etc.. then yeah, they really BOUGHT a house, that shit isn't cheap. Cheaper than a move in ready home for sure, but it is a hell of a lot of work and time as well. 

My point was the married Duggerlings all seemingly were gifted or granted access to move in ready homes, Joy wasn't, so she's getting it now, and if that has anything to do with her still birth this year I DON'T CARE. 

 

Yes, the G2 married Duggars have all been supplied with gifts, resulting in home ownership for little money. Maybe it’s in lieu of a paycheck or giving JB total control of the money. No, it has nothing to do with Joy’s stillbirth.

However all of these gifts and the obfuscating associated, while the Duggars continue to stay on message about debt free living, limited education, no BC with unfettered reproduction and God will reward you is absolutely wrong. 

It is wrong. It is dishonest and has the potential to hurt people. And no matter how you sugarcoat it, it is anti the message of Jesus Christ. 

Lastly, the second generation Duggars were robbed of a childhood. Their lives and anonymity were sold away by their parents. So those seeing these gifts as payback, I get it, BUT aside from the Dillards ( and likely d/t Derick’s gaffe), all these folks are repeating the sins with their own children. I guess they weren’t too bothered by it all.

[Georgiana]

To give another example: after I graduated college, my grandparents gifted me a car.  Yes, I paid a nominal sum to change the title because that's required.  But if I said I bought a car after college, I would be lying.  I did not buy a car.  I did not spend thousands of dollars on a car.  I was gifted a car, and I spent the necessary money to change the title.  

This is privilege at it's finest: your family gifts you hundreds of thousands in real estate interests, you spend $10 on the title, and you say you bought it like you achieved the same thing as someone who saves up, puts down a down payment, qualifies for a mortgage, and gets it outright.  It's not the same at all.  And it's a lie to pretend it is.  If this was a middle-aged white man crowing about how he "bought" his first house free and clear in his 20s under these circumstances, you'd all call bullshit.  It's not any better because it's Joy.  It's the same phenomenon that excuses privilege, cheapens the accomplishments of those without access to that privilege, and distracts from the struggles those without this privilege are likely to face.  

And we have to start calling people out who use their privilege to pretend that they accomplished the same things as others who in fact worked much harder and accomplished more.  Joy didn't buy this house.  She was gifted the house and land, and she merely spent the nominal amount of money necessary to legally change the deed and title.  

[keen23]

My first two cars were outright gifts. My third- I paid 1/3, parents paid 1/3 and grandparents paid 1/3. It must be said that my first two cars had Blue Book values of about $1000.

My parents also had the financial ability to give each of their four children a substantial amount of money to be used as a down payment for houses. Yes, I bought my house, but I was able to get a better house than I would have been able to afford at that point in my life. We now are going to be able to pay off that house entirely within the next 8-10 years.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

@Georgiana I'm pretty sure that the work done on Ben & Jessa's home was done as "surprise/gift" while they were on their honeymoon. The kitchen, dining area and living room & bathroom were all remodeled, and I think the master bedroom as well, that only left the spare room, it is a TINY house do it didn't take much work. The mold came later I think, and was maybe from a bad roof? Or did I just pull that out of my ass?