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2020 Presidential Election 2: The Primaries are upon us


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4 minutes ago, AmericanRose said:

If Twitter is liberal, we're in trouble.

Personally, I think Dems lost 2016 because they took it for granted.

I think Hillary ran kind of a bad campaign (her slogan and stickers were widely mocked and somehow also boring), and the DNC underestimated/miscalculated the rustbelt/changing demographics in the states that flipped.  Combining that with Russian influence, the spread of misinformation, and other factors, it's easy for me to see how/why she was the wrong candidate at that time. Not that she was incapable of being president or that she wasn't a thousand times more qualified, but there were a billion and one factors that go into why she lost. I just hope that the DNC has hired the best researchers, best field agents, best communications teams, and team overall this time to get the right message to the right people. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I hate the damn mailers in general. I got one from a trump approved republican the other day and I’m just sitting here going, friend, I’m a registered Democrat, and I dropped off my ballot last week. What are you doing with your money?

We have some very bizarre local mailers so I have a (very)small affinity for them. Plus I work in comms/design that kind of thing so I always look at them and then also toss them into the kindling pile. I occasionally photograph the weirdest ones and save them in a folder to never look at again. 

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1 hour ago, AmericanRose said:

Personally, I think Dems lost 2016 because they took it for granted.

Yes, voter turnout was very low. I think everyone assumed HRC would win in a landslide and so less dedicated voters just didn't show up. She was also just not a very inspirational candidate, tbh, especially as compared to the Obama zeitgeist in 2008. 

However, that's been a longtime problem for Dems. For several demographic reasons, Republicans are just better at turning out to vote. 

Edited by nausicaa
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1 hour ago, AmericanRose said:

If Twitter is liberal, we're in trouble.

There is 100% a liberal Twitter bubble one can ensconce oneself in if one wishes. That's not to say all of Twitter is liberal, but I know a lot of progressives who have created self-imposed echo chambers on there (obviously there are conservative/MAGA/white nationalist/incel ones too).

If users aren't careful, Twitter can definitely skew perceptions of the major issues people care about and where the Overton window is in general society. 

38 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I think Hillary ran kind of a bad campaign (her slogan and stickers were widely mocked and somehow also boring), and the DNC underestimated/miscalculated the rustbelt/changing demographics in the states that flipped. 

She's always been a lousy campaigner. I remember even Chris Matthews admitting that in the run up to 2016. 

I am still stunned she didn't even set foot in Wisconsin. WI and Michigan state officials were literally banned from speaking to the DNC HQ in D.C. How did the Obama campaign do such a better job at this when the Clintons have so much money and clout within the DNC?

If you want to tear your hair out, reading this'll do it:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

Edited by nausicaa
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11 hours ago, nausicaa said:

There is 100% a liberal Twitter bubble one can ensconce oneself in if one wishes. That's not to say all of Twitter is liberal, but I know a lot of progressives who have created self-imposed echo chambers on there (obviously there are conservative/MAGA/white nationalist/incel ones too).

If users aren't careful, Twitter can definitely skew perceptions of the major issues people care about and where the Overton window is in general society. 

Social media is a terrible place to get news in general. I remember some researchers did like a “red feed blue feed” interactive of how different Facebook accounts look based on how targeted advertising works, sharing sites and memes and articles with likeminded friends, and the echo chambers that are created by that. I recently watched The Great Hack on Netflix, about the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Holy cow the ways they used social media and data from social media to manipulate people!
 

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Bill Maher has been asking every Dem candidate what are their plans for when Twitler refuses to step down and leave if he is defeated in November. Most have not had an answer. Pete's was good, albeit a little flip:

"Buttigieg: If Trump refuses to leave White House, he can 'do chores'"

Spoiler

Presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg says if President Trump refuses to leave the White House after losing his reelection bid in November, he could stay and "do chores."

At a town hall in Reno, Nev., a voter asked the former South Bend, Ind., mayor what he would do if he were president-elect and Trump called the vote a "hoax," refusing to concede. 

Buttigieg, who was recently presented the same question by TV host Bill Maher, said he told the comedian, "It's going to be pretty awkward when Chasten and I are moving in our furniture."

"I mean, if he won't leave, I guess if he's willing to do chores we could work something out," he said.

The former mayor then encouraged voters to mobilize, saying he wants an election win by a large enough margin so allegations of cheating are not possible.

"I think we want to set a goal of winning big enough that this election is way beyond cheating distance and that Trumpism goes into the history books, too," Buttigieg said.

"It's gotta be a win so big that Senate Republicans are reunited with their consciences, and only a political shockwave can do that, and that's part of our focus," he added.

The former mayor has had positive outcomes in the first two states of the primary season, winning Iowa with the most delegates and coming in second in New Hampshire to Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

The Nevada caucuses take place Saturday.

 

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"New ads from Democrats hint at a strong argument against Trump"

Spoiler

It’s been widely observed that to undermine President Trump on one of his key strengths — the good economy — Democrats will have to argue that despite the booming stock market and low unemployment rate, many people’s daily experience of the economy continues to be pretty brutal.

But there’s another layer that Democrats might add to this argument that might make it more potent. They can also point out that Trump’s nonstop boasting about the economy betrays a lack of awareness of this daily experience.

This, in turn, could also serve to highlight one of Trump’s most hideous character failings: His relentless megalomania and dishonesty, which don’t allow for him to admit that anything on his watch is less than stupendously wonderful.

A new ad campaign from the Democratic super PAC American Bridge hints at what this might look like going forward. Politico reports that the group is putting $10 million behind new ads set to run in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan — the three “blue wall” states Trump cracked in 2016 — with an eye toward keeping Trump’s margin among working-class whites down.

Given how incredibly close Trump’s victory was in those states — he won them by fewer than 80,000 votes combined — even limited success at reducing Trump’s margin among those voters could make the difference.

But note the argument in the ads. This TV spot shows a dairy farmer in Wisconsin who recounts that he and his neighbors are getting killed by Trump’s trade wars. He then adds this:

I’m struggling to stay alive. My neighbor’s going out of business. And then to have our president say, “Buy a bigger tractor. Everything’s fine now!” I believe the president thinks that we’re expendable — that we can be toyed with, to help him. I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. And I will not vote for Donald Trump again.

Trump recently said that thanks to China’s agricultural purchases, farmers will need “bigger tractors.” This is similar to Trump’s declaration in 2017 that Ohio residents shouldn’t sell their houses, because manufacturing jobs would come roaring back to the state, which was followed in 2019 by a mild manufacturing recession.

A second ad features a Pennsylvania truck driver who says he and his neighbors are getting hammered by the high cost of living, and adds this about Trump: “He cares about himself, and making money, and getting reelected … for him it’s Trump before everything else.”

Notably, both spots seek to demonstrate that Trump’s boasts about the stupendous economy are out of touch with people’s everyday experience of it. But this is more than just an argument that Trump’s economy isn’t matching his promises; it’s also implicitly an argument about Trump’s character.

You may recall that during President Barack Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign, there was a spirited internal debate that led him to refrain from praising the recovery too openly or forcefully, because his advisers worried that this could alienate voters who were still hurting.

Now try to imagine Trump and his advisers having such a debate. There is no earthly chance that Trump would ever take such advice seriously: Precisely because the economy is his, it must be absolutely wondrous and perfect in every respect, and everyone — especially his own voters — must be doing smashingly great under it.

It’s hard to say whether this is mainly attributable to Trump’s megalomania (which doesn’t permit for anything on his watch to be imperfect in any way), or to his dishonesty (which leads him to distort and mislead endlessly about the economy), or to his administration’s blithe lack of concern for the plight of ordinary people (top officials have absurdly claimed Trump’s trade war is having no impact, despite the pain revealed in statistics).

To be clear, no one should be under any illusions about Trump’s ability to come very close to duplicating his 2016 performance among working-class white voters in the industrial Midwest in 2020. But again, given the closeness of Trump’s victory in the blue-wall states, small shifts could be important.

Given this, one would also expect the argument against Trump on the economy to focus heavily on his and the GOP’s efforts to repeal health coverage for millions and their enormous corporate tax cut, in addition to the wreckage from Trump’s trade wars. Trump, of course, has lied endlessly about those things, too.

Indeed, among still-struggling voters who are not hard partisans but voted for Trump because he seemed like something new, or like an outsider, or like a no-nonsense businessman who would solve their problems, it’s possible an indictment of Trump’s economic performance through the prism of his characterological unwillingness to tell the truth about it could have an impact.

Here are the ads mentioned in the article. They're well-done. I hope they make a difference:

 

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^ I feel that the Democrats will have to put in considerable effort into broadcasting their case against the Trump administration . Something like the No! campaign in Chile , back in the 80's , I think . For those who understand Spanish , here is an example of what I mean .   

 For those who don't understand Spanish however , here is what I am referring to . 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Chilean_national_plebiscite  I first found out about it , from watching this movie , with subtitles . 

 

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On 2/13/2020 at 8:07 PM, Stephanie66 said:

I already early voted for Amy. I do think she can beat Trump. But, instead, we are going to fight amongst ourselves, Bernie supporters won't vote or will vote for Trump if he doesn't win, and Trump will win again. 

Strong disagree on Bernie supporters. The idea that they will only support Sanders has been hugely overblown by the media, and not backed by statistics. 

I myself was wary of Sanders for a while--I supported Hillary over Bernie in 2016, then O'Rourke this year, then Warren. I thought he's unelectable, too many people are wary about "socialism," it'll never work. 

But I'm starting to get 2016 vibes. In 2016, there were a lot of Repub candidates. In 2020, a lot of Dems. The traditional Repub who everyone said was going to win, Jeb, got knocked out. Now it seems like our traditional Dem, Biden, is losing. Everyone said Trump couldn't win, he'd tank the Republican party, his supporters are "rabid," he's an outsider. Now everyone's saying Bernie can't win, he'll tank the Democrat party, his supporters are "rabid," he's an outsider. 

The difference is that Bernie seems genuine, and he actually has good policies.

People are angry and frustrated in this country. That's why Trump got elected. Change needs to happen soon, or people will explode. I can't speak for every Millennial,  but a lot of us truly feel hopeless about our futures, and like our lives are being run by people who do not share our values at all. Bernie is the only candidate that actually made me feel hopeful again--not just playing the strategy game of who on paper looks electable.  We need someone like Bernie eventually for the country to survive--just like we needed FDR in the 30s. I used to think that eventually was still far away, but I think the time is right. I truly think that Bernie has the best chance of beating Trump, and will also be the best possible president of our current options.

Anyway, that's the story of how I went from a "The Most Electable Dem" to Bernie 2020. 

 

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9 minutes ago, BernRul said:

People are angry and frustrated in this country. That's why Trump got elected. Change needs to happen soon, or people will explode. I can't speak for every Millennial,  but a lot of us truly feel hopeless about our futures, and like our lives are being run by people who do not share our values at all.

 

That's my theory as to how Trump won as well. Also Clinton seemed to take the Midwest for granted, and I know how proud they are in Michigan! And Michigan is still hurting from... um. I can't recall a 'good time' in Michigan, really, but hearing my HS friend's struggles to make both ends meet makes me glad I took a risk and fled.

I think 'safe' is over-rated. People voted for Trump for change, and in a shocking (not really) twist, he was only out for himself and whoever could enrich him. They're still looking for that change.

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26 minutes ago, AmericanRose said:

Also Clinton seemed to take the Midwest for granted, and I know how proud they are in Michigan! And Michigan is still hurting from... um. I can't recall a 'good time' in Michigan, really, but hearing my HS friend's struggles to make both ends meet makes me glad I took a risk and fled.

This is the feeling of people that people here in Ohio have of our state , especially in comparison to Michigan .  

I'm mostly just kidding , in good humored fun . 

Edited by Marmion
I got down voted , for some reason , and I don't want to unduly offend anyone .
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cses48i6msh41.jpg?width=606&auto=webp&s=

 

Remember when people acted like Hillary was dying because she fainted once? The double standard for female candidates is so frustrating. It's like how Elizabeth Warren actually did the math for her plans and then went down in the polls, while Bernie is vague about his plans and doesn't even try to figure out how much it would cost (nor does he have a realistic way for implementing them), and his supporters don't care.

I wish Warren had done more to distinguish herself from Bernie earlier, but I am glad she's speaking out now about the toxic culture that Bernie's supporters have cultivated. That was something that really frustrated me when I was a Bernie supporter. It's not all Bernie supporters, but it is way too many of them.

 

Also, Pete had a great response to Limbaugh and Trump tonight.

 

Edited by Rachel333
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7 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

 

cses48i6msh41.jpg?width=606&auto=webp&s=

 

Remember when people acted like Hillary was dying because she fainted once? The double standard for female candidates is so frustrating. It's like how Elizabeth Warren actually did the math for her plans and then went down in the polls, while Bernie is vague about his plans and doesn't even try to figure out how much it would cost (nor does he have a realistic way for implementing them), and his supporters don't care.

I wish Warren had done more to distinguish herself from Bernie earlier, but I am glad she's speaking out now about the toxic culture that Bernie's supporters have cultivated. That was something that really frustrated me when I was a Bernie supporter. It's not all Bernie supporters, but it is way too many of them.

 

Also, Pete had a great response to Limbaugh and Trump tonight.

 

What toxicity? I went on Bernie dominated forums, first as a Warren supporter, and there was minimal toxicity. Yeah, some people were shits, like in any corner of the internet, but majority was fine. The idea that bernie supporters are crazed and evil is being pushed by the media but doesn't reflect most people's reality. 

You know what I've noticed? Bernie supporters are still saying "blue no matter who, but I hope it's not bloomberg because he's trump lite." But now that Bernie is the frontrunner, moderate democrats have stopped saying " blue no matter who" and started talking about the so-called dangers of socialism, nevermind that FDR's policies were socialist.

Last Week Tonight just did a segment on M4A. Some studies show it saving money, some show it costing more, but Oliver raised a good point regardless: American healthcare is such a shit show that even if it does cost more in the short term, it will do tremendous good on the long run." 

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Oh boy. When I get home and have more time I will be happy to compile a bunch more examples of Bernie supporters being toxic (it's very, very easy to find examples), but to start with, how about the incidents that Elizabeth Warren was talking about? The leaders of the culinary union were deluged with threatening messages from Sanders supporters, all because they had the audacity to say that they didn't like Sanders's plan to eliminate the type of healthcare the union currently has. It was so bad that Sanders himself finally had to say something about it.

Bloomberg's recent ad also featured a bunch of examples. I still hate Bloomberg but I'm glad he's addressing it.

 

Bernie supporters have been downright abusive to anyone who has even mild criticism of Sanders. I've seen several female journalists say that a lot of people avoid publicly criticizing Sanders because if they do they will get a ton of nasty comments, including very misogynistic comments if the target is a woman.

It's real. I've seen it, and I'm tired of Bernie supporters claiming it doesn't happen when people talk about what they've experienced online. Of course every campaign is going to have some awful people among its supporters, but no other Democratic candidate has the type of problem the Sanders campaign has.

 

I've seen even the most anti-Sanders Democrats repeatedly saying that they will hold their nose and vote for Sanders if it comes down to it. Talking about the problems with Bernie and his plans is what is supposed to happen in the primary, and doesn't mean people won't vote for him in the general.

 

A poll from January showed that Sanders supporters were much less likely than other candidates' supporters to say they would vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it was. Only Yang's supporters were less likely, which makes sense because he attracted a fair amount of Republicans. (And none of Buttigieg and Warren supporters said no to the question!)

Spoiler

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I saw the John Oliver segment. I like John Oliver, but it wasn't very good. He said he was ignoring the cost and politics of MFA, when that's hugely important. Every Democratic nominee wants universal healthcare, but they have realistic plans to transition from our current system. The fact is that with our current political system MFA just isn't going to get passed right away. Even AOC admitted that the other day. I'm so sick of and disgusted with the Sanders supporters who say that anyone who doesn't support Sanders's plan (which isn't even much of a plan--he certainly doesn't have a realistic way to get it implemented) wants poor people to die. I've seen that argument over and over and it is so disingenuous. I think someone with a realistic plan to improve our current system, even if we don't go straight to MFA, will help poor people much more than Sanders will if he refuses to compromise.

 

On another note, Sanders has often been pretty misleading about his plan. For example, not a single country he listed in a recent tweet actually has the kind of plan he wants (and if he's talking about universal healthcare alone, every other Democrat has a plan for that as well). Someone went through them here:

  

Spoiler

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I also think Bernie's supporters have done a lot of damage in demonizing all the other candidates and claiming that they're basically Republicans. I saw someone the other day claim that Biden, Warren, and Biden were "far right," which is laughable. They all have very progressive platforms that are to the left of any previous Democratic candidate. The thing is, now we do have a candidate, Bloomberg, who really is terrible and was an actual Republican extremely recently, but so many Sanders supporters have been using that attack against everyone else in the race.

I will absolutely vote for him if he's the nominee and I don't think he's evil, but I do think Bernie would be a terrible candidate and an ineffective president. I was a big Sanders supporter in 2016, but I realized I fell for a cult of personality, and the more I've learned about Bernie in the years since the less I want him as the nominee.

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20 hours ago, BernRul said:

But I'm starting to get 2016 vibes. In 2016, there were a lot of Repub candidates. In 2020, a lot of Dems. The traditional Repub who everyone said was going to win, Jeb, got knocked out. Now it seems like our traditional Dem, Biden, is losing. Everyone said Trump couldn't win, he'd tank the Republican party, his supporters are "rabid," he's an outsider. Now everyone's saying Bernie can't win, he'll tank the Democrat party, his supporters are "rabid," he's an outsider.

Doesn’t that bother you though? That his personality, approach and supporters make him easily likened to the left’s Trump? If candidates who won’t compromise, never listen to alternative views, think and talk in black & white, and demand total submission from the rest of their own party is the future of the American presidency, that’s very concerning no matter which side of the aisle.

The opposition research is worrying not only in terms of what the Trump campaign will do with it but also what it means the voting public have to overlook in order to vote for anyone. When the choice is between “grab ‘Em by the pussy” impeached Russian puppet and “women get ovarian cancer by being frigid” guy who hung a soviet flag in his mayoral office, that’s a terrible indictment of the standard of acceptable character in a president.

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8 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I saw someone the other day claim that Biden, Warren, and Biden were "far right," which is laughable. .

Those people are in for some major disappointment when they learn that even if Sanders wins, he is not a king but actually, ya know, has to work with Congress. A Congress that will be over 98%-- according to their definition-- "far right."

Also, the more I research myocardial infarctions and the life expectancy for men over 75 who have experienced one, the more I really think his health is not a canard but a very legitimate issue we need to be seriously discussing. 

25 minutes ago, Smee said:

“women get ovarian cancer by being frigid” guy who hung a soviet flag in his mayoral office, that’s a terrible indictment of the standard of acceptable character in a president.

We have him on video-- in the 1980s while in his forties-- praising the Soviet Union in an extended speech. Even if it that doesn't personally bother someone, they should understand how much it will bother others.

(And honestly, it does personally bother me. This wasn't the 1930s when people didn't yet know about all that the Soviet Union was doing and could still be naively swept up in the dream. And he wasn't some starry-eyed college kid led astray by a demagogue professor.)

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1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Also, the more I research myocardial infarctions and the life expectancy for men over 75 who have experienced one, the more I really think his health is not a canard but a very legitimate issue we need to be seriously discussing. 

It absolutely is, and it was really offensive for his surrogate to compare it this morning to the racism Obama experienced with the birtherism conspiracy theory.

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I myself am relatively far to the left  ,  as an example of where exactly I stand on the political spectrum , I would say that historically speaking , I would have been most like Italy's Action Party . But eventhough one might think that I as a liberal socialist would be inclined to support Sen. Bernie Sanders , I do not . I will of course fall in line behind him , if he were to secure the nomination , and , in the interest of full disclosure , when it came down to either him or Hillary Clinton , and not knowing any better , I voted for him in the 2016 primary . But , after learning of not only just how much of a political cult of personality a key component of his supporters comprise { https://democracyguardian.com/the-cults-of-bernie-sanders-and-trump-dd678d3ea808?gi=4c25d17f190d , https://www.dailydot.com/via/bernie-sanders-supporters-twitter-cult/ , https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/30/former-staffer-bernie-cult-democrat-2020/ } , but also of his hard left extremist past { https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/02/bernie-sanders-radical-past-would-haunt-him-in-a-general-election.html , https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-iran-took-americans-hostage-bernie-backed-irans-defenders } , I cannot feel right about supporting Sanders this time around .  I feel that if it were to come down to Sanders vs. Trump , committed Democrats , such as myself , would feel that we have no choice but to vote for him against Trump's apparent fascism , just as Republicans will be all the more motivated to vote to re-elect Trump , in opposition to Sanders' perceived Communism .  But I am not sure which choice non-partisan voters by and large would make , if forced to choose between such two extremes . I can only hope that a more mainstream candidate , such as preferably Warren , or Buttigieg , will be able to overtake Sanders , so that I won't end up having to learn the hard way , first hand , what the outcome of such a would you rather game would be . 

Edited by Marmion
mistyped word
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So, some examples of Bernie supporters being toxic...

Here's more about how Bernie supporters harassed the culinary union leaders last week.

Quote

Two top Culinary Union officials have faced threatening phone calls, emails and tweets and say their personal information was shared online after the release of a union scorecard that took particular aim at Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Secretary-Treasurer Geoconda Arguello-Kline, for instance, has come under attack for her Nicaraguan heritage, and union spokeswoman Bethany Khan was accused of being paid off by former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and other Democratic establishment types. In tweets, the union and its leadership have been referred to as “bitches,” “whore,” “fucking scab” and “evil, entitled assholes.”

[...]

In one email, which the union provided to the Independent, Culinary leaders are referred to as “corrupt mother fuckers” and says that it’s “time for people like me to go after you.”

“This is your chance to fix your mistake before the millions and millions of Bernie Sanders supporters will find you and end your ability to earn a living,” the email says. “We will find you corrupt mother fuckers of that you can be sure and we will make sure you wallow in poverty and suffering.”

“Apologize and fix your mistake or else you will pay … I know tens of thousands of Bernie supporters and we will come after you fascist imbeciles,” it continues. “#Bernie2020 #NotMeUs.”

Khan said the union has received dozens of phone calls, more than 300 emails and thousands of tweets over the last 48 hours.

After the Working Families Party endorsed Warren they were harassed by Sanders supporters.

Quote

In the days since the Working Families Party endorsed Senator Elizabeth Warren for President on Monday, staffers at the progressive group have received hundreds of furious messages, including several using racial slurs against black staffers and at least one celebrating a junior employee’s rape.

Maurice Mitchell, the National Director of the Working Families Party (WFP) and an organizer with the Movement for Black Lives, received messages calling him a “half man” and “Uncle Tom,” and telling him to “go back to his slave masters,” according to emails and tweets reviewed by TIME.

WFP organizer Ember Ollom, a rape survivor who has tweeted about her assault, received a message that said: “We were raped by this process, so I’m happy it happened to you.”

When Ollom tweeted about the harassment, more people responded to tell her she was lying.

Staffers also received messages and tweets that vowed to “hunt all WFP down” and said “may you all get cancer.” One staffer received a threat that someone would find where she lived.

Just last month Elizabeth Warren confirmed a story about Bernie telling her a woman couldn't win (something she told multiple people about in private immediately after the meeting, so this wasn't a new claim). Bernie supporters called her a snake and celebrated flooding her twitter replies with snake emojis.

They've been doing something similar with Buttigieg, calling him a rat and spamming rat emojis. They have spread multiple conspiracy theories about Buttigieg that are absolutely false, like that the CIA helped Buttigieg cheat to win Iowa. Instead of recognizing the historic nature of an openly gay man winning delegates for the first time ever, thousands of people called him a cheat and insisted he didn't deserve the win.

There have been several homophobic memes about Pete going around with Bernie supporters recently. Here's once that not only brings up the homophobic accusation that Pete is using being gay as a way to avoid criticism (he and his campaign have never done this), but actually compares Pete to Jeffrey Dahmer.

Spoiler

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I'm not going to share this one, but one of the hosts of the Chapo Trap House podcast, who are prominent Bernie supporters and whose podcast Bernie was on in the past week, posted a picture from a movie of a boy being gang raped, comparing it to the Buttigieg campaign. It was shared by quite a few other Sanders supporters.

At the recent 100 club dinner in New Hampshire Sanders supporters booed other candidates. This didn't happen with supporters of other campaigns.

From a CNN story about harassment from Bernie supporters,

Quote

More than a dozen social media users spoke to CNN about their experiences with bullying by Sanders supporters.

They described threats against family members, the creation of imposter accounts that resembled their own and what some described as being "swarmed," where barrages of vitriol filled their Twitter feeds and inboxes for days after they posted something critical of Sanders.

"I had never experienced that level of aggression before," said Patty Kasbek, a veterinary technician in Oklahoma who said she criticizes President Donald Trump on Twitter more than any other political figure but said she faced the most hostility after she accused Sanders of being misogynistic. She said she received messages such as "STFU" and "eat this" poop emoji, among other insults.

Two other targets said they were so tormented by the online attacks they faced following their public questioning or criticism of Sanders that they requested those specific circumstances not be reported for fear such harassment could start up again. Both said Sanders supporters exposed their addresses, shared their personal photos and spread information about their relatives and work colleagues.

This is only scratching the surface of how Bernie supporters have been behaving. It's not all of them or even most of them, but it's enough to be a real problem, and it's a problem that the other campaigns simply don't have. I've seen it quite a bit myself and you can't tell me there's not an issue with toxicity from Sanders supporters.

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Anyone watching the debate? They're coming out hard against Bloomberg and I love it!

And Pete is doing amazing going after Bernie too. I love him so much right now. This debate is the most compelling one I've seen.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/george-zimmerman-sues-pete-buttigieg-elizabeth-warren-over-trayvon-martin-birthday-tweets/ar-BB10amFD?ocid=spartanntp

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George Zimmerman, the former Sanford, Fla., resident acquitted of murder in the 2012 killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, is suing Democratic presidential candidates Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg over tweets they posted to commemorate the teenager’s birthday.

The lawsuit was reported Wednesday morning by Newsweek. The attorney representing Zimmerman, Larry Klayman, posted a copy of the suit online, which seeks damages “in excess of” $265 million.

 

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Go Warren! She really clobbered him and deftly handed his arrogant, misogynistic ass to him. 

"We should not substitute one arrogant billionaire for another."

She completely and utterly owns him here. 

He was simply too arrogant to prepare. 

Michael Bloomberg’s Monumental Failure to Prepare

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You’re about to go on a treacherous journey. You’ve hired an army of knowledgeable experts who know the dangerous twists and turns in the road, who know where the brigands lurk, who have been told for weeks exactly what perils await.

What do you do? In all likelihood, you do not venture out on this journey by tossing out the map of the terrain and wrapping a blindfold around your head.

But that’s what Michael Bloomberg did Wednesday night.

If you know you’re going to be called on the carpet for your dismissive comments about women, and charges of mistreatment of women in your company, do you really argue that the women signed nondiscrimination agreements “consensually,” and then brush aside Elizabeth Warren’s demand that he release women from those agreements? Do you dismiss years of offensive comments by referring to “a joke I told”? Do you offer an anodyne apology for stop-and-frisk policing, then let your opponents detail the suffering that policy inflicted on countless black and brown young men, and let your foes remind you of how persistently you embraced that policy?

Do you really respond to Bernie Sanders’s embrace of socialism—a clear vulnerability for Sanders, but a growing enthusiasm for the younger wing of the party—by saying that “they tried [abandoning capitalism] in their countries; they called it communism”? And do you spend the entire evening with barely a flash of engagement, not to mention passion?

It’s not as if there was no approach available for a candidate like Bloomberg to take. He might not have the charisma or practiced on-camera moves of a long-time politician, but he certainly had options, and even strengths. I suspect that anyone who watched that debate with experience as a political operative—myself included—had a sense of what Bloomberg had to bring to this first debate.

Fundamentally, the challenge for Bloomberg was to seize the terrain of the debate; not just to acknowledge an error on stop and frisk, but to acknowledge that he (like many men of his generation) was all too comfortable with talking abut women that was unacceptable—not just now and then. He had to know that lame assertions that he put women in positions of influence would not come close to answering the years of insults and crude jokes—but that was exactly the defense he offered. He had to know that simply asserting that he was the only one to build a business—true as that is—may not exactly be a line to set hearts beating faster in the Democratic primary. He had to know that every answer had to be shaped by a common theme: I’ve said and done things I am not proud of; I share with everyone on this stage a record of things I’m proud of and things I wish I’d done differently—but if you judge me by what I have done, and by how much Trump fears me, I am the right person to run.

In the years I spent in debate prep, there were times when a candidate fiercely resisted a frank acknowledgement of error; it is part of the DNA of people with the hunger for power. (I can remember my boss, the legendary Dave Garth, and I literally locking a client in our office until he was able to say flatly about a controversy: “it happened; it shouldn’t have happened; it will never happen again.” The controversy died, and the client got elected.)

It is also reasonable to assume that if you have accumulated $60 billion, you may think that you are a lot smarter than those giving you advice. But in politics, the old saw about lawyers defending themselves is true: a candidate who is his own political consultant has a fool for a client.

I find it hard to believe that Bloomberg’s team let him walk onto the debate stage with no apparent clue about how to deal with the kind of assaults that a candidate for high-school treasurer would have seen coming a mile away. It’s impossible to know if tonight’s disaster is fatal to his candidacy. What I do know is that it is an inexplicable performance that another few hundred million dollars of ads will not repair.

 

But if you thought he learned any lesson after this debate, you are very much mistaken. 

 

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I truly am sickened by the extreme Sanders' supporters (I know not all of them are crazy!). I dislike how Sanders' said it's only .01% of his supporters who are like this (seems like a bit more) or blaming Russian bots for the abuse on twitter. I think he needs to step up and really say more to his rabid fans. In my opinion, they are no different than the MAGA-cultists in terms of their blind loyalty and lack of respect for anybody with a slightly different agenda. It really worries me.

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