David Koch is dead

[47of74]

David Koch has died

Quote

Conservative billionaire David Koch, who became a household name through the policy and political empire he created with his older brother, Charles, has died. He was 79.

Charles Koch, the CEO of the family's industrial conglomerate Koch Industries, announced the death Friday.

Good  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[47of74]

Lol. (Yeah I know satire).

Recently deceased billionaire and libertarian political donor David H. Koch was reportedly still camped on the edge of the river Styx this morning, unable to reach the afterlife after refusing to pay the required one-cent fee to access the ferry.

“I don’t see why there needs to be a blanket fee for everybody when we could simply allow the market to determine a fair price,” said Koch, shivering over a small fire at the edge of the ancient river that separates the mortal world from the realm in which all human souls rest together in eternity, free from pain and worry. “I see a lot of profit to be made here.”

Koch also voiced his displeasure at the state of the boat itself, a flat wooden ferry pushed along by Charon, the boatman whose sole purpose is to guide humans through the transition.

“This is what you get when you let the government in,” Koch said, pointing at the old boat where Charon waited to reunite Koch’s spirit with those of his beloved friends and family. “Open this market up, you’re going to get some investors down here and turn this whole operation around. I would be happy to pay a million or two for a nice yacht ride.”

[formergothardite]

He was a terrible human. The world won't miss him. 

[nausicaa]

8 hours ago, 47of74 said:

David Koch has died

Good  

Posts like these really drive home why I don't wander into the FJ political threads (and maybe FJ isn't the place for me any longer).

What do you think this post accomplishes? He had three children and a wife. He was a human being and his body isn't even cold. Don't become like the Trumpsters you despise. Rise above it.  (And Jesus-- you're not even witty.)

Also (and not that his political beliefs aligning with yours should be the only test on whether a human deserves to be treated with basic decency), he was pro-choice, he was one of the main financial supporters behind legalizing gay marriage, he basically kept the American Ballet Theater going for the past few decades, and he was a major donor to PBS, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and Lincoln Center. He was also an outspoken critic of our prison system and received a commendation from Obama on his efforts for prison reform and how it unfairly targets the low-income and POC.

When liberals treat the Kochs like these sinister, one-dimensional svengalis, they look as ridiculous and irrational as when conservatives do the same with George Soros. I realize knee jerk red and blue tribe thinking is easier, but it's rarely actually accurate. 

[JenniferJuniper]

Sorry, but the Koch brothers have done tremendous damage to this country.

Here's hoping his brother gets lonely for him and follows him down to hell real soon.   

[Palimpsest]

Sorry, but I am with @nausicaa on this.  I'm not denying the damage done by the (misguided, insensitive. creeptastic, and a few extra swear words) people I have been very critical about.  The Libertarian and bull-headed Koch brothers. 

I'm also going to say that David Koch tried to do a lot for prison reform.  And was a deeply flawed person,

But condemning people to hell feels like descending to a level that makes me uncomfortable,  And it is Trumpsteresque,

That is all.

 

[JenniferJuniper]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Sorry, but I am with @nausicaa on this.  I'm not denying the damage done by the (misguided, insensitive. creeptastic, and a few extra swear words) people I have been very critical about.  The Libertarian and bull-headed Koch brothers. 

I'm also going to say that David Koch tried to do a lot for prison reform.  And was a deeply flawed person,

But condemning people to hell feels like descending to a level that makes me uncomfortable,  And it is Trumpsteresque,

That is all.

 

There is no hell.  Not that I sometimes wish there was. 

Either way, its way beyond false equivalency to refer to those who aren't sorry about the death of evil people "Trumpsteresque".   

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I'm not sure how I feel about his death. I mostly just want to know how this is going to affect all the acres of public land in my state that the Koch brothers blocked from public access.

They bought millions of acres of land, and then closed roads that were the only way of accessing certain sections of public lands. Previous private landowners allowed the public to use roads, but not these guys. In some cases they may have had a legal right, but in others they definitely didn't. My state has the 3rd highest percentage of acres of publically owned lands, and if rich out of staters can block us from it, it makes the title "public land" a mockery. 

So, that's my selfish, narrow perspective at this time. I only knew one thing about this guy while he was alive, and that's the main thing I'm concerned with upon hearing of his death.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Posts like these really drive home why I don't wander into the FJ political threads (and maybe FJ isn't the place for me any longer).

What do you think this post accomplishes? He had three children and a wife. He was a human being and his body isn't even cold. Don't become like the Trumpsters you despise. Rise above it.  (And Jesus-- you're not even witty.)

Also (and not that his political beliefs aligning with yours should be the only test on whether a human deserves to be treated with basic decency), he was pro-choice, he was one of the main financial supporters behind legalizing gay marriage, he basically kept the American Ballet Theater going for the past few decades, and he was a major donor to PBS, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and Lincoln Center. He was also an outspoken critic of our prison system and received a commendation from Obama on his efforts for prison reform and how it unfairly targets the low-income and POC.

When liberals treat the Kochs like these sinister, one-dimensional svengalis, they look as ridiculous and irrational as when conservatives do the same with George Soros. I realize knee jerk red and blue tribe thinking is easier, but it's rarely actually accurate. 

Yeah sorry but while Amazon, Siberia and Alaska burn and Artic's ice melts I am not going to cry for the man who famously said that a warmer planet would be good because "Earth will be able to support enormously more people because a far greater land area will be available to produce food". The man who sponsored the Tea Party, the man who could see that tRump was the biggest American fraud but did nothing to stop him and embraced him once he won the presidency. The libertarian man for whom libertarian meant homo homini lupus, I am a lupus and if you are an agnus then screw you. He did his best to destroy the only attempt at a comprehensive health care plan that tried to make health care affordable to everyone. He did his best to undermine financial regulations, so when the approaching economic crisis will hit harder thanks to people like him remember to thank him too. He embodied the Corporate America that screws over who is too small to stand up for their rights.

He wasn't straight up evil you say, and so? Not even Mussolini was. Believe it or not he did a lot of good, he built and staffed public schools all over the country,  defeated malaria that was endemic in Italy with a comprehensive approach of public healthcare and swamplands drainage. Made a comprehensive reform of civil law that's still in part standing. He really did good things, he also was directly responsible for the atrocities of war, genocide and the death of millions of people. In the end his balance was deeply negative, I don't think I would have spat on his corpse in Piazzale Loreto (because ewww) but I can't blame those who did and I can actually empathize with them. 

People can have different opinions about David Koch's end of life balance. For me it's in red and while I am glad that he did the good things he did, I still think those are barely a fig leaf that can't compensate for all the wrongs. He supported women's right to choose, but thought that they shouldn't have healthcare if they couldn't afford it. He thought that the judiciary system unfairly penalises PoC and low income people but did his best to keep American economy unequal. 

I am not going to dance on his grave, also because, as a foreigner I don't have any real beef with him, but I can't really blame those who do.

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

maybe FJ isn't the place for me any longer

In that case I would be sorry because I always appreciated your opinions and insight, even in this occasion. I think that your contributions have always enriched the discussion. You make me learn new things every time and this is what I value the most on fj. But if you can't stand reading opinions different from yours and automatically think that those opinions are just uninformed knee jerk reactions then I can't help you.

[adidas]

7 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Yeah sorry but while Amazon, Siberia and Alaska burn and Artic's ice melts I am not going to cry for the man who famously said that a warmer planet would be good because "Earth will be able to support enormously more people because a far greater land area will be available to produce food". 

I have no idea who this guy is but the thread title caught my eye because we have a morning tv financial advisor and presenter with the same name. 

The above quote is so frightening. I’m not sure if Australia’s drought has been mentioned on international news, but the warmer planet is causing devastation in a massive way here. To the tune of $20,000 per week for some people in my region. We have farmers here who have no hope of crop income for at least 12 months if rain arrives tomorrow (but the forecast is not looking good - severe drought for at least another 3 months and possibly up to two years). 

We had a sprinkling of rain a few weeks ago and I overheard a three year old ask her Mum what was happening. In her lifetime she had never seen rain before.

We have no water = we have no food. 

This drought is officially the worst in history. These photos were taken over a year ago so it’s even worse now. 

And it’s because of our warmer planet.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/au.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/struggling-farmer-captures-devastating-reality-drought-061841273.html

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I still think those are barely a fig leaf that can't compensate for all the wrongs. He supported women's right to choose, but thought that they shouldn't have healthcare if they couldn't afford it. He thought that the judiciary system unfairly penalises PoC and low income people but did his best to keep American economy unequal. 

This is how I feel. Not even Trump is straight up evil and if he died I'm sure his kids would actually be sad. Just because someone did some good and was loved by family doesn't mean they weren't also a terrible human. 

I stand by what I said. He was a terrible person, he caused untold harm to America and the world won't miss him because he cared little for the environment.

I don't see how thinking that the world is better off without a person who caused so much harm(his donations to some nice causes does nothing to counteract the damage he did) makes me like a Trumpster. I wouldn't push to kill him, deny him medical care, deny him dying with his loved ones around him, I don't think anyone should protest his funeral or shout hateful things at his family. 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Reading this WaPo article I found out that running for veep in the eighties he campaigned for making child labor legal again  

Spoiler

In 1980, Mr. Koch was the Libertarian Party’s nominee for vice president on a ticket with corporate lawyer Ed Clark. He aligned himself with a platform that called for the abolition of all corporate and personal income taxes, Medicare, and child labor laws. When the ticket flopped at the ballot box, garnering 1 percent of the popular vote, the brothers pinned their political ambitions on the ascendant Reagan-era GOP.

ETA and he always called for the abolition of the pubic school system, in Arizona he did his best to help Betsy DeVos fund private schools at the expense of the public school system.

He also profited greatly from corporate welfare, with the latest tRump tax in the calculation of Americans for Tax Fairness, David Koch and Charles would have saved more than $1bn themselves in income tax.

Edited August 24, 2019 by laPapessaGiovanna

[milkteeth]

The idea of not speaking ill of the dead is for when you decide to not mention how Grandma always over cooked the Christmas roast and would make snarky comments about how so and so from church is gaining weight. Once you reach a certain level of power and influence then history needs to judge you fairly.

David Koch was a monstrous person, and despite him trying to launder his legacy by supporting the arts or cancer research it is a good thing for our society and our planet that he is dead. At least this way his destructive actions have come to an end. His family can comfort themselves with the vast wealth that he hoarded for them and also with the fact that they will be among the very last of us who feel the effects of the climate catastrophe that David helped to promote. 

[formergothardite]

21 hours ago, nausicaa said:

When liberals treat the Kochs like these sinister, one-dimensional svengalis, they look as ridiculous and irrational as when conservatives do the same with George Soros. 

I don't think he was one dimensional, but when looking at the big picture, he is one of the villains in the story of the world. He worked hard to get us to the political place we are now.  While he may have been outspoken about some good things, in the end, he put a ton of money towards hate and hurting others. He and his brother spent a ton of money planting and helping grow the seeds of climate change denial because the truth hurt their pockets and they cared more about money than people or the world.

I don't think wishing people into a eternity of torture is something we need to to, But he was a bad person. Was he 100 % bad? No. Almost no one is. Is it truly terrible to be glad a horrible person is gone? Is it bad to view someone who did so much damage as bad? It isn't like he helped cause this damage on accident, he knew what he was doing. 

ETA: The Koch brothers didn't just work on a huge scale, they also worked on a smaller one. They were involved in trying to bring back segregated schools in one district in my state. And that wasn't like in the 80's and 90's it was 2010. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by formergothardite

[Howl]

Quick summary on why some people are less fond of Davd Koch.  Yes, as a Libertarian he did support some causes we admire, but he also championed and supported financially things that created great harm.  The current political climate is part of his handiwork and legacy. 

HOW DAVID KOCH WORKED TO DESTROY THE PLANET

Edited August 24, 2019 by Howl

[formergothardite]

37 minutes ago, Howl said:

Quick summary on why some people are less fond of Davd Koch.  Yes, as a Libertarian he did support some causes we admire, but he also championed and supported financially things that created great harm.  The current political climate is part of his handiwork and legacy. 

HOW DAVID KOCH WORKED TO DESTROY THE PLANET

 

Quote

The biggest effect of the Koch Brothers, as with Fox News, is not so much that Republicans will win more elections as that Republicans can remain electorally competitive while running almost nothing but fanatics and crackpots, while ensuring that Republicans don’t run people who aren’t.

David Koch and is brother changed America forever and not for the better. Fanatics are now electable because of them.  I personally view him as one of the monsters of this world. A monster hell bent on destroying it for financial gain. 

[VelociRapture]

I’m not going to ill wish anyone, but I’m also not going to pretend I’m sad to see him die either. He may have done some good things in his life and I’m glad for that, both for the people he may have helped and for his own sake. But he also did a great deal of genuine damage to our country and the world. Was he a purely evil monster in every way imaginable? No. Most humans aren’t because humans are complex creatures, but he wasn’t a good human being in my opinion either. 

I don’t celebrate the loss of a human life* and my sympathies are with his loved ones, but I do admit to feeling some relief knowing he won’t be around to personally meddle anymore.

@nausicaa I understand your point, though I don’t necessarily agree. I will, however, be honestly sad if you decide this is no longer the right place for you. I think you’ve often added a lot of great perspectives and opinions on a variety of topics and that you’ve helped make this site a much better place to participate in. That said, I also understand you have every right to feel that way and make decisions best for you. Lots of love to you regardless of whether you choose to stay or leave. ❤️

*The exception being someone responsible for truly evil acts like Hitler. 

[47of74]

I refuse to feel guilty for my thoughts about that son of a bitch's passing.  

Also, satire, lol

Quote

Noting that the deceased billionaire wasted no time after entering into Heaven’s gates, angelic sources confirmed Friday that David Koch immediately launched a far-reaching, fully funded campaign to secure Antonin Scalia a seat in the Holy Trinity.

At press time, sources had reported that David Koch had joined a coalition of prominent conservative Saints to begin grooming Neil Gorsuch for a position as a hypostasis when he dies.

 

[fraurosena]

People die every day.

Some, like a poor, innocent child stuck in a cage that dies due to purposely witholding basic hygiene and medication, I mourn for with an aching heart.

Others, like filthy rich billionaires who use their money to purposely hurt people not like them... well, I simply shrug.

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I have not looked for a comprehensive list of which candidates the Koch brothers financed through the years, but reading some articles a name stood out, they backed known homophobe Michele Bachmann. 

12 hours ago, formergothardite said:

ETA: The Koch brothers didn't just work on a huge scale, they also worked on a smaller one. They were involved in trying to bring back segregated schools in one district in my state. And that wasn't like in the 80's and 90's it was 2010. 

I looked for sources and here they are

Spoiler

The story starts back in 2009, when elections were held for four of Wake County’s nine school board seats—enough seats to dictate the public school district’s agenda if all four board members wanted the same reforms. That’s where Americans for Prosperity, a conservative political advocacy group, came into play. AFP funded a local grassroots group, WakeCARES, that organized on behalf of four candidates who sought to kill the district’s policy of busing to ensure diverse, desegregated public schools.* The four candidates ran against what they called “forced busing”—a phrase, the film points out, that dates back to George Wallace in the 1970s—and instead stressed that schools should educate only those who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

Local reporters, some of whom are interviewed in the film, connected the push to eliminate busing with the philosophies of AFP and its funders. “They’re definitely pushing an agenda to resegregate these schools, but there’s also a real push toward privatization,” Sue Sturgis of the Institute for Southern Studies says in the film.

AFP, the Koch funded 501(c)(4), tried to deny any involvement, some right wing media accepted it, others dug deeper.

Spoiler

In an August 16 letter to Brave New Foundation Robert Greenwald, Dallas Woodhouse, Americans for Prosperity’s North Carolina state director, attacked the premise of Greenwald’s film, saying it “falsely claims” AFP was involved in the 2009 Wake County school board elections. Woodhouse asserts that AFP “did not spend a single dime on those elections” nor did it engage in any get-out-the-vote or voter education efforts. “AFP played no role in the 2009 WCPSS election,” Woodhouse asserts. Read his full response.

In its response to AFP, Brave New Foundation stood by its story. BNF pointed to several statements of AFP-NC’s in support of its claims, including a 2008 blog post of Woodhouse’s saying AFP-NC “is on record as supporting the parents of WakeCARES, through significant financial contributions as well as other support.” In the fall of 2009, WakeCARESendorsed the four school board candidates who opposed Wake County’s busing policy, and a former AFP-NC director later creditedWakeCARES with paving the way for the four candidates’ victories. BNF alleged AFP “funneled” financial support to the candidates through Art Pope, a wealthy Raleigh businessman and an AFP national director, who gave more than $15,000 to the Wake GOP which in turn spent nearly all of its political donations in 2009 on backing the four conservative school board candidates. AFP-NC’s Woodhouse also told Newsweek in January that his group did voter education and mobilized volunteers for the school board election.

 

[formergothardite]

 There was a lot of news about it at the time. Some people who were in favor of segregating schools were still a bit put out that outsiders could just come in a buy a school district. 

[candygirl200413]

They funded my alma mater so our econ program especially was very libertarian. They did a lot of damage to breed the type of assholes we deal with in government so I'm totally fine (among other reasons) to not care that he died. He and his family have done so much damage to our society that I think it's justified that people are saying good riddance. Don't be a horrible person throughout your life.

[nokidsmom]

On 8/24/2019 at 1:59 PM, milkteeth said:

Once you reach a certain level of power and influence then history needs to judge you fairly.

Reading this thread brings to mind this article posted in The Guardian, after Margaret Thatcher died.  Brings up some very good points surrounding the "speak no ill of the dead" etiquette surrounding people who were influential public figures. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

On 8/24/2019 at 4:51 PM, VelociRapture said:

I’m not going to ill wish anyone, but I’m also not going to pretend I’m sad to see him die either. He may have done some good things in his life and I’m glad for that, both for the people he may have helped and for his own sake. But he also did a great deal of genuine damage to our country and the world

This.  And I think we can acknowledge that his passing is a loss to his family and friends and let them grieve him as a husband, father, family member and friend, even if it's not a loss to us.  Yes, he did some good things but he was also behind from very harmful, damaging things.   As a public and influential figure, it's fair to acknowledge honestly what he did and it's not "dancing on one's grave" to honestly talk about the negative things, the very real negative impacts.  

@nausicaa I have always enjoyed your posts and you have provided some great perspectives on the topics we discuss here.  I hate to see you go but you should decide what is best for you, and I extend my best wishes to you regardless of your decision.  

 

[formergothardite]

Samantha Bee made a video about the damage these two brothers have done to the world.