Dillards 79: Sex Education on the Fly

[bella8050]

@Beermeet There's things I wish I would have reported too. I wish I knew more about HVAC systems, cars, etc, just to shut the asshole up. Best I got was winning a chargeback with my credit card because the manager wouldn't guarantee the work done the day before and blamed me for it not getting fixed properly.

@kiwi I don't understand Jill posting the video either. Like I said I hope it was a short trip...but there's got to be something more to do for your child than half ass press against the bag from the front seat while using your other hand to film it and laugh. 

 

[lumpentheologie]

7 hours ago, Silas said:

I can't imagine being in relationship where my partner did not trust me around members of the sex I was attracted to.

I'm bisexual.  So by this logic I should just never be alone with anyone except my husband and immediate family?  Yeah, that'll work great.  I guess fundies would say I just don't love Jesus enough and if I did those sinful attractions would go away.  But then shouldn't their sinful attractions to people other than their spouses go away too, if they're such good Christians? 

3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I have never, ever felt this way and I just don't understand it.  I don't think this is basic at all. All men are not predatory monsters, and it is unfair to prejudge them. Some are probably gay anyway, LOL. I have owed my own home for decades and never gave a second thought to being alone with tradespeople working on my home. I never had anyone behave inappropriately. I didn't have anyone to come sit with me anyway. I just can't consider half the human race as a risk.

I don't think it's basic, exactly, but after multiple sexual assaults from multiple men I do consider half the human race a risk. Unfortunately my experience is not uncommon, either. I'm glad nothing has ever happened to you, but that doesn't mean it's not a risk. Of course not all men will take advantage, but a lot of them will if they think they can get away with it.  It's a sad way to live, but I think it's not unreasonable.  Hopefully we can educate boys and men better in the future to think about women differently.  Sexism and rape culture run deep. 

[feministxtian]

I'd have blown their minds when I was the only female in a 4 man cubicle...never had any problems though...

[Fundie Bunny]

5 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I have never, ever felt this way and I just don't understand it.  I don't think this is basic at all. All men are not predatory monsters, and it is unfair to prejudge them. Some are probably gay anyway, LOL. I have owed my own home for decades and never gave a second thought to being alone with tradespeople working on my home. I never had anyone behave inappropriately. I didn't have anyone to come sit with me anyway. I just can't consider half the human race as a risk. 

Well, things like that have happened to me and to almost every woman about my age I know. This is something much more common than you think it is, and is an acceptable reaction to be wary

[JordynDarby5]

On 8/24/2019 at 12:03 PM, VelociRapture said:

I have no issue with people protecting themselves from situations they feel could be genuinely dangerous to them for whatever reason. If you genuinely don’t feel safe or comfortable being alone with someone then you should take what steps you can to keep yourself comfortable and safe.

That doesn’t seem to be why Fundies are following the Billy Graham rule though. They seem to follow it because it’s an easy and convenient way to limit the way women are able to participate in the workplace and how they’re able to act in the home too. It’s not really about keeping people safe or protecting reputations - it’s about control. 

 

10 hours ago, Silas said:

The problem with fundies and people like them is that they aren't doing it to protect anyone from an unsafe situation. They're doing it because they think if you're alone with a person you're gonna bang them. I can't imagine being in relationship where my partner did not trust me around members of the sex I was attracted to. It's bullshit and quite frankly, abusive.  If my friend told me she didn't want me running to the store (random example) alone with her husband because we might sleep together I'd absolutely drop the friendship. If my partner told me I couldn't be alone with my male friends because he thinks we might sleep together...again, I'd drop the relationship. 

Earlier I spoke about a couple I know with a similar rule. They do it purely because of a lack of trust. I can't imagine spending my life with a person who didn't trust me to that extent. It's toxic as heck.  Nor could I imagine being with someone I didn't trust. I've seen the toll this takes on people's mental health and it's not good.  Fundies can preach about their perfectly happy relationships until they're blue in the face but I fail to see how this type of environment could make anyone happy. Constantly living in fear that you're one closed door away from being cheated on? Nah. 

 

Both of these! There's nothing wrong with having someone if you feel the need when a repair man or someone comes to your house that you don't know or those who work with kids to always make sure you keep a door open or talk near one. The first one is usually more about worried about having someone you don't know in your house just in case and the latter is because unfortunately there is always a new case or cases of abuse between teachers and kids.  

But those aren't the reasons for the Graham rule. Its all about lack of trust. Don't leave a man alone with woman because he won't be able to control himself because you know in Gothard/Graham and all these Fundies of course the man can't control himself. He can't say no, not be interested or do anything. Don't leave him alone with a woman because of course she can't be trusted. She's going to seduce him. She'll tempt him because you know all women are temptresses. They all want your man. So you stay in the same room with him and it won't happen. Its crap, stupid and most people would be insulted that their boyfriend/girlfriend don't trust enough to be alone with the opposite sex. And break up with the person because that's crap. It doesn't show maturity, or trying to stay pure or committed to your relationship. It shows your immature, distrustful, and shouldn't be in a relationship. Outside Fundie world men and women managed just fine working together, hanging out together and even become friends! That's right friends! Without ever wanting to jump each other's bones.  

Derick, Graham, Pence, and the rest of Fundie men. Women are not that into you.  That's right. They are not that into you. Their not interested in you, they are not attracted to you, and they don't want you. Also for most people seeing someone in with someone else is a big turn off. Women who are alone with you are not thinking about sex with you, or anything else. All they want is to get whatever job or issue or whatever they need to talk with you done so they can leave. That's it.  Get over yourselves.

[lumpentheologie]

2 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Well, things like that have happened to me and to almost every woman about my age I know. This is something much more common than you think it is, and is an acceptable reaction to be wary

I think the millennials and younger have been/are becoming a lot more open with their experiences of sexual assault and harassment than previous generations have been.  I think it's always been common but people didn't used to talk about it because it was perceived by a lot of people to be shameful to have been a victim (and it still is, but there's a strong narrative pushing back against that now).  I thought I didn't know anyone who had been raped until I started talking about my rape, and it turns out more than half my friends have been too. People are just starting to realize how common it is. 

And while this is a problem everywhere, it's an especially bad problem in the US. I just saw a report ranking countries for how unsafe they are for women to travel alone in, and among the metrics they considered were sexual violence from non-partners,  intimate partner violence (either sexual or non-sexual), and homicide against women. The US was 4th worst out of 50 countries (all international tourist destinations) for non-partner sexual violence, the 7th worst for partner violence, and the 8th worst for female homicide. (Here's the report: https://www.asherfergusson.com/solo-female-travel-safety/)  I feel significantly safer living in Germany, where I've been sexually harassed twice in 5 years, whereas that was pretty much a daily occurrence in the American cities I've lived in. 

[OyToTheVey]

Just saw Jills IG story. OMG I want to smack her. I felt so bad for Sam. Why didn't they just move the car seat on to the middle seat? Do they still only have one car? I wouldn't want a video like out on my kid on the gram. That's a huge no no.

[Kelsey]

I have had men refuse to interact with me in a professional setting. I found it frustrating and offensive. 

I have no problems meeting a contractor in my home sans chaperone. Usually whoever (between the 2 of us) can manage to rearrange their schedule is the one who meets the contractor.

I do feel uncomfortable sitting at lunch table with (only) a man. If there are other people, it doesn't bother me but if it's just me and a man- it just feels weird to me. Not like we're about to fuck or anything but like just not necessary, I guess. 

[SassyPants]

22 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

Just saw Jills IG story. OMG I want to smack her. I felt so bad for Sam. Why didn't they just move the car seat on to the middle seat? Do they still only have one car? I wouldn't want a video like out on my kid on the gram. That's a huge no no.

I don’t understand why they didn’t pull over and let Jill get in the back seat with the kids. I hope they get the window fixed ASAP, but if they only have 1 car, that could be a problem. Time to stop taking all the trips and mosey on over to The TTH and get a second car. 

[OyToTheVey]

10 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t understand why they didn’t pull over and let Jill get in the back seat with the kids. I hope they get the window fixed ASAP, but if they only have 1 car, that could be a problem. Time to stop taking all the trips and mosey on over to The TTH and get a second car. 

TBH if it was my kid( I don't have any, tons of nieces and nephews and family kids) but I probably would have stopped the car down the block and returned home because a kid that miserable going to church just isn't worth going to church.

[SassyPants]

Just now, OyToTheVey said:

TBH if it was my kid( I don't have any, tons of nieces and nephews and family kids) but I probably would have stopped the car down the block and returned home because a kid that miserable going to church just isn't worth going to church.

In our family,  we’d have stayed home and made a better plan for getting the window repaired. Dollars to donuts JB has repaired a window himself. With all those people and how DYI they present themselves to be, couldn’t they have reached out to get it fixed? See, for all the “closeness” that the Duggars have crammed down our throats, how about someone helping out in a situation like this? More hands, lighter work, right?  Yes, I understand windows can be hard to fix, but isn’t JB a Jack of all Trades?  Or at the absolute least, lend the Dillards one of those cars sitting in the gravel lot at the TTH.

[bella8050]

Pics from Jill's story for those not on IG. Why are you laughing Jill?  

(Photo marks from Jill not me)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Karma]

57 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

Just saw Jills IG story. OMG I want to smack her. I felt so bad for Sam

What a bitch. Why do that to your lovely little boy?  Move the seat to the middle, sit next to the window yourself, or just skip church and get the window fixed. Or if you’ve really just been caught out, why ffs video your crying, scared child and laugh about it? She really is tone deaf. #stupidmomanddad and definitely not #bestparent

[Screamapillar]

Poor Sam. Such a stupid thing to post on IG, wtf?

I used to drive a car where the window regulators broke constantly, causing the windows to roll all the way down in the door. It was so annoying. Such a hassle to take them to get fixed all the time. Driving down the highway with windows open is incredibly loud. Both of my kids when little have been afraid of the sudden, loud noise that hand driers in public restrooms make, which is similar to the noise of driving down the highway. No wonder Sam was pissed.

[SilverBeach]

11 hours ago, Beermeet said:

I've had enough uncomfortable experiences to make me cautious.  One of the best things about getting older is I don't encounter it much anymore and can be more relaxed.  I wouldn't go so far as to say I felt legitimately in danger but the comments and looks were not welcome or appropriate.  I learned to be cautious.  Leaving windows and doors open.   I won't demonize half the population but I will be very cautious.  

The problem was with those individuals, not men in general. Maybe I was just lucky, but I always behaved professionally and was always treated professionally in return. If a repair person gives you bad vibes, send them on their way and request the company send someone else out.

Mr. SB does residential remodeling and repairs, and says he has had women come onto him many times, including married ones. When he encounters that, he makes sure his business partner is with him for any future visits. Sometimes the man needs a chaperone, LOL! BTW, Mr. SB is one of the most decent men on the planet, I hate that some women would view him as a potential predator simply because he is male. It's prejudice. The same sort of prejudice that causes some white women to cross the street if a black man is walking toward them, even if he is in a suit and carrying a briefcase.

To me, this is all a version of stranger danger, which ignores that most sexual predation is done by people known to the victim. No one warns about family members (men and women) who are sexual abusers and actually very dangerous .  People often turn a blind eye to this very real risk. 

[Fundie Bunny]

@SilverBeach Just explain to me why you are so keen on invalidating someone else's experience. We are very aware that most sexual abuse happens in the home, but with the whole me too and all that came with it, you should also be aware that it can happen to anyone anywhere.

[SilverBeach]

55 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

@SilverBeach Just explain to me why you are so keen on invalidating someone else's experience. We are very aware that most sexual abuse happens in the home, but with the whole me too and all that came with it, you should also be aware that it can happen to anyone anywhere.

I'm not invalidating anybody's anything. Why do you say that?  What exactly did I say that was invalidating? That's quite an accustion to make.  What I did was offer another perspective. I am a survivor of child sexual abuse and other abuse also so I am very aware of what can happen.  Anything can happen to anyone anywhere is true for life in general, yet to be in a generalized state of fear against entire groups of people is not useful for anyone. Being paranoid about all men is not going to protect anyone from a specific predator. If people want to live their life in fear and be afraid in their own homes, that is their prerogative.  To me, it is excessive, but each person gets to choose for themselves.

I could say that my experience was being invalidated, but as a black woman in America, invalidation is an everyday experience.  

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by SilverBeach
To add that I am moving the paragraph about FJ culture to community discussion.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I think this is more hating on Jill because she's Jill. The video, to me, seemed more like FML, look at this shit here. She sees how ridiculous it is and realizes Sam is scared. I'm not seeing her being a heartless clueless mom here, shit happens and we have to make it work, kids cry, they won't be scared for life.

Remember just because YOU would do it different doesn't mean what they are doing is wrong. This is mommy shaming 101 here. I know I'm going to get hell for this, but give her a break, sometimes we just have bad days. and just because YOU won't put it out on the internet doesn't mean others shouldn't. 

[princessmahina]

12 hours ago, Beermeet said:

I've had enough uncomfortable experiences to make me cautious.  One of the best things about getting older is I don't encounter it much anymore and can be more relaxed.  I wouldn't go so far as to say I felt legitimately in danger but the comments and looks were not welcome or appropriate.  I learned to be cautious.  Leaving windows and doors open.   I won't demonize half the population but I will be very cautious.  

This is perfect. 

 

13 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I have never, ever felt this way and I just don't understand it.  I don't think this is basic at all. All men are not predatory monsters, and it is unfair to prejudge them. Some are probably gay anyway, LOL. I have owed my own home for decades and never gave a second thought to being alone with tradespeople working on my home. I never had anyone behave inappropriately. I didn't have anyone to come sit with me anyway. I just can't consider half the human race as a risk. 

I’ve had a number (if 3 counts as a number ??‍♀️) of repairmen be aggressively flirty with me over the last few years. I don’t know why. And I don’t know that they would have tried something had I been alone. But it doesn’t seem particularly smart of me to take the risk. Obviously MMV, but I treat men with caution and I firmly believe I have every right to do so. Not all of them are predators, of course, but I’ve had enough experiences with bad ones to treat them all with a certain amount of caution and distance. 

[mollysmom]

13 hours ago, Beermeet said:

Interactions with men can be tricky. Especially when in my home. I usually ask them to try and be quiet because my husband is sleeping.  IF they were creepy-ish, it usually stops. How fucking sad is that?  Of course, not all but too many.  I feel safer stating husband in the house. 

I love this. I'm going to start doing this. Thanks for the idea! Very smart.

[HermioneSparrow]

1 hour ago, bella8050 said:

Pics from Jill's story for those not on IG. Why are you laughing Jill?  

(Photo marks from Jill not me)

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Can I punch her in the face and laugh? I'll record and post it on social media too, I bet she'll love that ?

Jill really is her father's daughter.

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I'm not invalidating anybody's anything. Why do you say that?  What exactly did I say that was invalidating? That's quite an accustion to make.  What I did was offer another perspective. I am a survivor of child sexual abuse and other abuse also so I am very aware of what can happen.  Anything can happen to anyone anywhere is true for life in general, yet to be in a generalized state of fear against entire groups of people is not useful for anyone. Being paranoid about all men is not going to protect anyone from a specific predator. If people want to live their life in fear and be afraid in their own homes, that is their prerogative.  To me, it is excessive, but each person gets to choose for themselves.

I could say that my experience was being invalidated, but as a black woman in America, invalidation is an everyday experience.  

 

Imo, you kind of are invalidating.  It may not be you're experience but it is reality for many women, like throughout history even. I wouldn't tell you that as a black woman navigating life as a child abuse survivor is a reason to not worry or be cautious.  Because, what are the chances it happens again?  I don't think that last sentence is a good thing to say to a fellow woman. As women, we really do encounter uncomfortable ( at least) situations with men. 

My example of the gas station is one of many. So, I don't trust easily.  My gut tells me not to. Gut is usually right. 

A good story: at the gas station, again. I'm getting snacks and waiting in line. The cashier was oogling a teenager ( he was 50ish) like, really gross and obvious.  As I'm taking this in, a woman a bit older than me loudly tells him to stop. That she is a kid just stopping in here and doesn't need you looking at her like that,  it's gross. I seconded that. Love that lady! He was appropriately shamed. A few applauded, including men ( of course).  I loved it because it's happened to me, most situations with unwanted words aimed at me by the perv. No one said shit and sometimes other men would join in. Horrifying, to me. It took me a while to truly get over the fear I really felt, blame myself for not saying things that seemed obvious to say, hindsight is a bitch. 

For every "bad" story, I can think of one to replace it with men being awesome normal humans.  So, to me, it's a 50/50 chance of bad experience.  

[Sullie06]

Mr. Sullie and I are like the opposite of what these two preach but yet were at 18 years and counting so we must be doing something right ?

For us that that opposite sex advice just would never be practical. He works in a female driven workplace (nursing) and I work in a male dominated workplace (law enforcement) a couple of months ago I had to travel for a month with two male co-workers to the other side of the state for training. Granted we had our own hotel rooms but I was with these two men pretty much 24/7 for 4 weeks. Its just the nature of my job. Derek and company could had shit bricks. 

[srlm]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:06 PM, DarkAnts said:

Asexual. No sexual attraction to either gender. Like all sexual orientation, it's on a spectrum. I am at the extreme end of the spectrum. 

Thank you!  

[Beermeet]

I have some thoughts:

1. Someone on here PM'd me.  Because she had a story to get off her chest and was afraid ( maybe not the right word) of how it would be recieved.  She was sexually harrassed by a female of importance in her life. One that she had to see here and there after the fact.  She felt safe telling me, in private.  I was happy she did.  One should always have a safe place to Express their feelings about a situation no matter what.  It's real. I believe her.  

2. Part of the fun of being the only girl child, at the time, in a construction/mechanic family is that, they needed help. So, it was me. Even if there were more males at the time, if I showed interest they all would've embraced me with some minor hazing. I still got some hazing. Par for the course and hilarious pranks ensued!  Anyway, I got to see and hear lots of *guy stuff*.  Their not bad people.  The younger ones were horndogs but respected women overall.  It gave me an education like no other!  I'd get back with my shitty BF and the guys would tell me things like " just so you know, if you accept this date, he will think he's in the clear." No further thought,  just things smoothed over and they knew I didn't feel that way. They were right!  He didn't become the BF I wanted. He just *won*. 

3. My male friends ( I've always had more male than female friends) were the first to, upon hearing, come over to " babysit" me when repair guys came over.  My uncles would say it's part of the act. But, they could barely imagine me dating. Lol!  Those same uncles did the same thing though!  Because unlike females, they hear the real talk. Simple as that.  Only trusted servicemen were allowed unattended.  

4. It can be confusing.  Here I have stated love and well, sometimes overprotective males in my life as well as gross perverts in the wild.

  They had a point, as I found out over and over.  But, so many men have been beyond amazing and no where near creepy in my life.  It's fn confusing!  I actually credit the men for making me aware. I just assumed it was what is was. Even worse, to like it because attention!  Other women wore a badge of honor with each inappropriate encounter. It meant you were desirable.  They came home to tell the tale, getting family upset but kinda digging the attention.  I am guilty of this too. Men taught me to tell creepers off! That I don't have to accept it. Fuck that. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Beermeet
Eta: this is coming from an Italian family from NY. We are a different breed. So, ymmv. But, I liked it. Their honesty taught me life lessons. Yes, I still stand out here in SoCal. They don't have my kind out here. Lessons still applicable. :)