Dillards 79: Sex Education on the Fly

[Smee]

I can’t believe I might be defending fundies here... but I kind of get the “not in the same room as a member of the opposite sex” thing. Not to the extreme they take it to - if a plumber needs to come over and it’s just me and the kids, I’m not going to call a friend to chaperone, nor would it apply to someone like my best friend’s brother who I’ve known 20 years. But I do have a similar habit in that if I’m alone with just one other male friend or colleague I prefer to leave the door open. A few years back, I was having one-on-one conversations with my pastor on a regular basis while I was dealing with some shit. When I first asked to meet him, I specified that I didn’t want to meet at the church building, and he suggested a public park. We usually went to cafes or for walks around the river. Now, I was very close friends with his wife, he knew my husband well, and regardless of how private the location, nothing inappropriate would have happened; I don’t doubt his integrity. But it helped ME to feel more confident and secure while talking to him. I have some nervous hang ups after an abusive relationship with a youth pastor in my teens, and that didn’t even get sexual. I can only imagine how much more fearful of men in positions of leadership I might have been if it had.

And yes, some people will get offended. But I have a right to feel safe and to choose where I go or who I invite into my home. Male friends of mine have been offended that I don’t hug them, too, but it makes me uncomfortable and I don’t think I should have to push through that for their sake.

[kiwi]

Short story: I considered changing the dog’s name so that I could use it for my kid.
Long story: I suggested a baby name to Dh, he said he didn’t like it. So when we got a dog about a year later I asked if we could use the name for the pooch. He said yes - and he reiterated that he wouldn’t change his mind about using the name for our next kid.
Another year later I was pregnant with the next baby and struggling to think of names. He had the nerve to say ‘it’s such a shame we called the dog Molly, it would have been such an awesome name for the baby’.
I nearly killed him.
Thought about changing the dog’s name so I use use the name on the baby but couldn’t convince myself that it was a good idea.

Growing up there was a couple across the road who had a dog called Emma, they hadnt had children and she got to her mid 40’s and found she was pregnant - they named their daughter Emma as well [emoji23] Emma the dog lived another 15yrs!! Although it did save her time when she called her kid and dog in from outside for tea [emoji12]

[Peaches-n-Beans]

21 hours ago, viii said:

Probably a vibrator, aka my best friend. 

it is and she is my best friend and I love her. 

I do not love it when my dog eats all the lube and I have to explain it to the vet though. 

[Arkfundy]

9 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

Even if meeting their needs is specified women and men both- they're only taught to want missionary, procreating, very vanilla sex though correct? And if so then some people who be getting their needs met but not anyone whose into anything else. I mean there's a large range of creativity sexually speaking that they miss out on if they were potentially interested. I mean I'm not into anything i would consider extremely unusual but I do like to experiment.... it seems like there wouldn't be much room for that 

Raised in a fundamental culture and actually “vanilla sex” is laughable...we were never taught that sex was only for procreation..but that it was between married people to be enjoyed. Birth control used by almost every couple(and women have careers- not raised fundamental Baptist). The marriage bed was “undefiled” so whatever happened there was “fine”...2 things we were told were wrong were orgies, and pornography. Bringing others into your marriage bed was considered sinful. I’ve attended many lingerie showers were the gifts were risqué and  people do discuss their private lives with friends, I can say “vanilla sex” is not the norm. Whips, edibles, and sex toys are not uncommon. 

A friend who left the church once said “church girls are freaks once the lights go out”....and honestly about 75 percent of the people I know did not wait till marriage. Most  people have a sex drive and enjoy sex...fundamental Christians are no different. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Arkfundy
Grammar correction

[Tatar-tot]

Don’t name you kid any name you used for a pet.  A good friend of mine’s parents German Shepherd, named Heidi, died shortly before she was born.  They were morning the loss of the beloved dog when she was born so they named her HEIDI after the dog. 

She never got over it.  Heidi always thought they loved the dog more than her.  At times we were all wondering if they was true.  What a head game to bless a child with. 

 

[onekidanddone]

I had a relative who died unexpectedly and I ended up with her cat. Cat’s name was a nickname of my middle name. 

[Four is Enough]

12 hours ago, Smee said:

 I named one of our cats Raphael, which is what my youngest daughter would have been called if she’d been a boy. We did name the other cat Michelangelo though,

Do you also have a Leonardo and a Donnatello????  (heroes on the half shell)

[ViolaSebastian]

3 hours ago, Arkfundy said:

 Whips, edibles, and sex toys are not uncommon. 

One of the most devoutly Christian women I know, who had a supervised courtship in her late thirties, also sold Pure Romance. I won't lie, I was shocked when I heard her talk about it, but she was big on "the marriage bed is undefiled."

[fluffernutter]

9 hours ago, Smee said:

I can’t believe I might be defending fundies here... but I kind of get the “not in the same room as a member of the opposite sex” thing. Not to the extreme they take it to - if a plumber needs to come over and it’s just me and the kids, I’m not going to call a friend to chaperone, nor would it apply to someone like my best friend’s brother who I’ve known 20 years. But I do have a similar habit in that if I’m alone with just one other male friend or colleague I prefer to leave the door open. A few years back, I was having one-on-one conversations with my pastor on a regular basis while I was dealing with some shit. When I first asked to meet him, I specified that I didn’t want to meet at the church building, and he suggested a public park. We usually went to cafes or for walks around the river. Now, I was very close friends with his wife, he knew my husband well, and regardless of how private the location, nothing inappropriate would have happened; I don’t doubt his integrity. But it helped ME to feel more confident and secure while talking to him. I have some nervous hang ups after an abusive relationship with a youth pastor in my teens, and that didn’t even get sexual. I can only imagine how much more fearful of men in positions of leadership I might have been if it had.

And yes, some people will get offended. But I have a right to feel safe and to choose where I go or who I invite into my home. Male friends of mine have been offended that I don’t hug them, too, but it makes me uncomfortable and I don’t think I should have to push through that for their sake.

I'm so glad you posted this and I totally get it. I have some trust issues with men and if I need to be in close proximity with one, I get very uncomfortable. For example- I am currently getting a 3 part hair procedure done that takes four hours each time. It's with a guy, and so when I had my consultation and first round my husband went along. It just set my mind at ease. It has nothing to do with accountability or thinking I will just end up doing something inappropriate  with some random person- but just that I get wary around most men.

[Giraffe]

I’m fascinated by this. This is the first I’m hearing “the marriage bed is undefiled” in this context. I’ve only ever heard it used as a way of preventing premarital sex. “Keep the marriage bed undefiled” is how I’ve known it.

[fluffernutter]

2 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

Don’t name you kid any name you used for a pet.  A good friend of mine’s parents German Shepherd, named Heidi, died shortly before she was born.  They were morning the loss of the beloved dog when she was born so they named her HEIDI after the dog. 

She never got over it.  Heidi always thought they loved the dog more than her.  At times we were all wondering if they was true.  What a head game to bless a child with. 

 

That happened to ME! Only it was- wait for it- a horse. ?

[princessmahina]

9 hours ago, Smee said:

I can’t believe I might be defending fundies here... but I kind of get the “not in the same room as a member of the opposite sex” thing. Not to the extreme they take it to - if a plumber needs to come over and it’s just me and the kids, I’m not going to call a friend to chaperone, nor would it apply to someone like my best friend’s brother who I’ve known 20 years. But I do have a similar habit in that if I’m alone with just one other male friend or colleague I prefer to leave the door open. A few years back, I was having one-on-one conversations with my pastor on a regular basis while I was dealing with some shit. When I first asked to meet him, I specified that I didn’t want to meet at the church building, and he suggested a public park. We usually went to cafes or for walks around the river. Now, I was very close friends with his wife, he knew my husband well, and regardless of how private the location, nothing inappropriate would have happened; I don’t doubt his integrity. But it helped ME to feel more confident and secure while talking to him. I have some nervous hang ups after an abusive relationship with a youth pastor in my teens, and that didn’t even get sexual. I can only imagine how much more fearful of men in positions of leadership I might have been if it had.

And yes, some people will get offended. But I have a right to feel safe and to choose where I go or who I invite into my home. Male friends of mine have been offended that I don’t hug them, too, but it makes me uncomfortable and I don’t think I should have to push through that for their sake.

Honestly? I don’t see how this could be offensive (though I’m sure someone could find a way). Women have a lot to fear from men. Men generally have little, if anything, to fear from women.  I wouldn’t say I’m the kind of person who lives her life in a constant state of fear, but for me, not being alone with a man feels like a basic thing. If we have a repairman coming over, I try to make sure I’m not alone or that I’m out of our apartment (since they have a key to get in anyway). There are just too many variables in being alone with a strange man that I don’t like to take the risk if I don’t have to. 

[viii]

My experience is the opposite. Big on mutual pleasure, but things like oral sex and toys are frowned upon, as is masturbation. 

[VelociRapture]

I have no issue with people protecting themselves from situations they feel could be genuinely dangerous to them for whatever reason. If you genuinely don’t feel safe or comfortable being alone with someone then you should take what steps you can to keep yourself comfortable and safe.

That doesn’t seem to be why Fundies are following the Billy Graham rule though. They seem to follow it because it’s an easy and convenient way to limit the way women are able to participate in the workplace and how they’re able to act in the home too. It’s not really about keeping people safe or protecting reputations - it’s about control. 

[PennySycamore]

When one of my daughters was pregnant with her last baby -a girl- she realized that they'd already used one of her favorite girl's names on the German Shepherd!

Edited August 24, 2019 by PennySycamore

[squiddysquid]

13 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

When one of my daughters was pregnant with her last baby -a girl- she realized that they'd already used one of her favorite girl's names on the German Shepherd!

Aww, that shouldn't have stopped her, think of the potential for hilarity - " *Missy* drank out of the toilet bowl again!"

- "Kid or dog?" (my friend's toddler just did that... )

Edited August 24, 2019 by squiddysquid

[mollysmom]

4 hours ago, viii said:

My experience is the opposite. Big on mutual pleasure, but things like oral sex and toys are frowned upon, as is masturbation. 

Same here. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Bindi Irwin was named after a crocodile AND a dog.

Another reason I think fundie men like this Billy Garaham rule is ego. They like to imagine these scenarios where all women throw themselves at them and they need the accountability. 

[Smee]

6 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Do you also have a Leonardo and a Donnatello????  (heroes on the half shell)

Two cats is enough, but if we did get more then yep you bet we’d have a Donnie and a Leo! I wanted tortoiseshells so I could called them my heroes in a tortoiseshell, but all torties are girls so that didn’t happen. Instead I have a teenage mutant ginger kitten and red collar for Raffy.

[Vivi_music]

I usually avoid being alone with the opposite sex, when I have worked in a position of authority with minors.

I was a camp counselor in my 20's and it was at camp that I was given that advice. We were told to never be alone with the opposite sex simply to protect ourselves from any possible misunderstanding with the kids (and yes by that they meant a misunderstanding that could lead the parents to suspect inappropriate stuff or kids say false accusations). Especially at camp because the children would sleep there. This meant there were a lot of situations that could be touchy (going to bed, changing, showering, etc.). The dorms were of course divided by sex, but even when checking the dorms at night we would go in pair. And would try to strickly enforce the rule of not being alone with a kid of the opposite sex. It was a way for the camp to protect itself and at least try to avoid any possible problem or accusations. (because, let's face it, if an abuser really wanted to abuse a kid, sex and gender is often not a barrier - just look at pedophile priests, their victims are often little boys).

I thought it was at least a good advice to protect yourself as an employee.

And I also understand the idea of having someone present with you because you are scared or feel a threat coming from the person of the opposite sex. But like it was said, when the fundies do it, I sounds more like a weird perverted distrust than for normal reasons.

[Daisy0322]

12 hours ago, Arkfundy said:

Raised in a fundamental culture and actually “vanilla sex” is laughable...we were never taught that sex was only for procreation..but that it was between married people to be enjoyed. Birth control used by almost every couple(and women have careers- not raised fundamental Baptist). The marriage bed was “undefiled” so whatever happened there was “fine”...2 things we were told were wrong were orgies, and pornography. Bringing others into your marriage bed was considered sinful. I’ve attended many lingerie showers were the gifts were risqué and  people do discuss their private lives with friends, I can say “vanilla sex” is not the norm. Whips, edibles, and sex toys are not uncommon. 

A friend who left the church once said “church girls are freaks once the lights go out”....and honestly about 75 percent of the people I know did not wait till marriage. Most  people have a sex drive and enjoy sex...fundamental Christians are no different. 

Thanks! I was always curious about that 

[Jinder Roles]

One of the main effects of American evangelical Christianity is the idea that you cannot trust yourself. The flesh is deceitful. Therefore, there must always be chaperones, safeguards etc. to prevent sin. 

As for marriage, basically you’re supposed to be asexual until marriage and then be somehow perfectly aligned with your sexuality. Also your sexual expression does not belong to yourself, especially if you’re female.

I don’t view Jill’s ideas about sex as more liberating or more evolved because the Dillard’s definitely still believe in these things. 

But evangelicals are getting smart and rebranding how they talk about things to be more palatable and on-trend. 

[Arkfundy]

I will say that being on these boards has opened my eyes to other fundamental lifestyles...and while I do see the error in a lot of the teachings That we adhered to, in some ways we didn’t have it “as bad”...for instance these wisdom booklets are laughable. While we did dress modest and wear dresses, covering the knee...we were never taught about “eye traps” . Women are encouraged to pursue education and in just the year I graduated, and going forward 5 years... we have 3 women doctors, 2 lawyers and many nurses and others professions in the medical field. We were taught that motherhood is the highest calling, but that you didn’t have to give up dreams or your own “life” just bc you were a mother. 

Sex of course was a “no no” but again..human nature....I have always felt like going from “no sex” or  even having sex ed, to “anything goes when you’re married” can be a huge extreme. masterbation, Oral sex and toys...are all “ok”.... If in the marriage bed...it’s definitely interesting to see how different religious cultures draw the lines though.  

There are a lot of things that the Duggar adhere to that make me sad. Women in the religion I grew up definitely had a “stricter” dress standard than the men counterparts, but had a voice and were respected. I think that’s what bothers me the most, is that these girls only achievement is to marry and bare children. 

 

 

 

[Chickenbutt]

13 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Men generally have little, if anything, to fear from women.

My son is a teacher. He is never alone with a female student. If there is a quick question, the door is open and they stand at the doorway. If it is to be a longer discussion, it is held in the office within eyesight of the secretaries/other staff and again, the door is open. One false accusation and his career is over, his reputation ruined and in the worst case scenario, legal issues. 

[Denim Jumper]

17 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I have no issue with people protecting themselves from situations they feel could be genuinely dangerous to them for whatever reason. If you genuinely don’t feel safe or comfortable being alone with someone then you should take what steps you can to keep yourself comfortable and safe.

That doesn’t seem to be why Fundies are following the Billy Graham rule though. They seem to follow it because it’s an easy and convenient way to limit the way women are able to participate in the workplace and how they’re able to act in the home too. It’s not really about keeping people safe or protecting reputations - it’s about control. 

ITA; control... with a subtext of not trusting women. Fearing they might be seduce or falsely accused of sexual harassment by women.