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Dillards 79: Sex Education on the Fly


Coconut Flan

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I agree that I definitely can see the Dillard kids going to school, although likely a private Christian school, at some point in the future. I'm giving them a point for wanting to carry on the Pete tradition, because it shows me they fully understand that means going to an actual college. I don't think we're going to see the day they aren't conservative Christians but I do think they've abandoned ship on the Duggar way of life. 

Has Derrick stated what kind of law he wants to go into? 

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Remember when we all thought DD would move Jill away from JB’s clutches and weird cult beliefs and behaviors by exposing her to a wider world view? IMO, that is exactly what is happening, albeit slowly.

 

1 more thing, how in the world would anyone who was raised in a home with limited to almost zero access to literature or books beyond the Bible, or experiences outside the heavily monitored walls of their own home, believe that they could adequately or successfully homeschool anyone else?

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5 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

 

1 more thing, how in the world would anyone who was raised in a home with limited to almost zero access to literature or books beyond the Bible, or experiences outside the heavily monitored walls of their own home, believe that they could adequately or successfully homeschool anyone else?

TBH I have a MS in SpEd and I still don't think I would be a very good home schooling parent. If I had kids and I choose to, I would make the most of it, tutors, programs, etc. I know my resources. But as an actual home schooling parent, I don't think I would be very good all Pre-k to 12th grade. I can teach any kids how to do a puzzle or learn their colors but high school math? I'd rather set my books on fire. 

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My concern would be *if* Jill's idea of homeschooling is at all similar to how she was homeschooled the longer she keeps them home the more behind they risk falling making it harder for them to integrate into a traditional school setting when they do start. 

I have nothing wrong with homeschooling, I have two friends who were homeschooled one who is doing a PhD in music and another with multiple STEM degrees. But when it's done poorly it can really risk putting the kids at a disadvantage. 

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2 minutes ago, LacyMay said:

My concern would be *if* Jill's idea of homeschooling is at all similar to how she was homeschooled the longer she keeps them home the more behind they risk falling making it harder for them to integrate into a traditional school setting when they do start. 

I have nothing wrong with homeschooling, I have two friends who were homeschooled one who is doing a PhD in music and another with multiple STEM degrees. But when it's done poorly it can really risk putting the kids at a disadvantage. 

She’d have to educate herself first. 

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2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Remember when we all thought DD would move Jill away from JB’s clutches and weird cult beliefs and behaviors by exposing her to a wider world view? IMO, that is exactly what is happening, albeit slowly.

 

1 more thing, how in the world would anyone who was raised in a home with limited to almost zero access to literature or books beyond the Bible, or experiences outside the heavily monitored walls of their own home, believe that they could adequately or successfully homeschool anyone else?

At this point Jill doesn't know what she doesn't know. That is how.

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10 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

At this point Jill doesn't know what she doesn't know. That is how.

I think DD is slowly but surely informing? Convincing? Her of exactly what she doesn’t know, and that her inadequacies are rooted in the extreme, limited way in which she was raised. I also think this unveiling process has been one source of their obvious tension.

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13 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

At this point Jill doesn't know what she doesn't know. That is how.

And if Derick tells her, she will feel she is dumb, not understand that her parents failed her.

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I think he makes her feel dumb on purpose holding it over her head. There was a source claiming to know derick from bible school saying he would ridicule Jill publicly if she got scripture wrong.

A duggar academy alumni is the only one who'd call Ofjill smart and educated feeding his complex.

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Yes Jill is more fundie lite now. But I also think Christian fundamentalism is rebranding. They know they were outcasts in the 80s & 90s.

With the fall of Gothard, Vision Forum and others, they are attempting to become more palatable. A lot are also falling into the fundie reformed Calvinism of John MacArthur and Piper (aka Jeremy’s brand). 

In a similar fashion, conservative Christianity has also been shifting more traditional fundamentalist. The two are meshing. 

JB and Michelle are the old type. People like Jinjer, D-wreck and Alyssa Bates are the new type. 

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To be fair, how do we know what Jill knows?  She has access to the Internet, libraries, people ...

On the other hand, hateful people with two kids in public school aren't any better than any other type of hateful people.  If anything, they could raise potential bullies who follow their dad's footsteps.  I don't care if a lot of the U.S. is like that.  It isn't justifiable or something to be praised. 

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I think Jill knows that her education is lacking.  She was involved with that college-student club at Cro$$ Church.  She sat in on Derick's law classes.  She followed him on various ministry/mission trips that would have exposed her regularly to peers with a standard education.  If you've ever sat in a room with people talking on a subject they are far more educated in than you are, it's very immediately apparent to you they are on a different level.  

How she deals with it I think is more up in the air.  She might be working on it, or she might be in denial.  But I think deep down Jill is aware that outside her parents' community, people think and talk circles around her.  I think it's a harsh reality of her life at this point.  

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I don't know that Jill is ignorant when it comes to education however based on what we have seen on the show about their education background we can infer that she needs a massive amount of remedial work to catch up. Yes, she has access now to the internet and other materials but I believe that she is so far behind that she wouldn't know where to start without guidance. How do you know where to begin in math when you think perpendicular means straight up and down, or you have no exposure to algebra.  How do you know where to start in literature if you can't name a single non religious book. I would say that even if she is working to get the education she was denied, she will still be unprepared to homeschool her children. It's unfortunate that her parents did this to her but it is up to her to see that it won't continue. 

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Jill herself will always be some degree of conservative Christian with some hateful beliefs. But the less fundy she becomes, the better the chances that Israel and Sam are exposed to a whole lot more of the world than she was. Public high school could be where they have their first friend who comes out as gay. College might be where their roommate explains how you can love God while accepting evolution, or they read a book and empathise with a character who has an abortion. Jill and Derick aren’t going to teach their kids the values we’d like them to, but I still hold some hope they won’t completely isolate them from anyone who thinks differently, the way JB and Michelle did.

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7 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

On the other hand, hateful people with two kids in public school aren't any better than any other type of hateful people.  If anything, they could raise potential bullies who follow their dad's footsteps.  I don't care if a lot of the U.S. is like that.  It isn't justifiable or something to be praised. 

A number of the Westboro Baptist kids went to public school and post secondary. I'm not saying the Dillards are anywhere near that level of awful but public school isn't a guaranteed fix. It will definitely give the kids more opportunities BUT depending on what they are hearing at home it could also cause them to double down believing that their sinful peers are going to the bad place if they can't convert them. 

There are terrific homeschooled people there are crappy public schooled people. 

Right now we have no clue where they will go, Derrick could graduate law and immediately go to work for the Alliance Defending Freedom or FRC. In which the kids are maybe in public school but still getting indoctrinated at home.

I want too see the vest for all of them. But I'm so discouraged every time I see some small shift and start to feel hopeful before seeing that hope shredded.

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One of the quickest reasons why cults end ,and its usually in the second generation, is because money dries up. So, the Dillards no longer being filmed means that it’s likely they are no longer drawing an easy TLC paycheck. As far as we know, neither Jill nor Derick has a job that would easily provide for their average sized family. Unless they are being supported by someone else, are drawing from a trust, or are receiving government assistance, they must have financial concerns. Making a decision to no longer sell yourself or your family for public consumption (or having that decision made for you d/t the liabilities you pose) has consequences. Having to support their family on their own volition will likely affect the decisions Jill and Derick make. If you expect to last in the every day working world, you have to tone down the crazy. Look at Joseph Maxwell. He has a job outside of Steve’s domain, and he and his family do not have the exposure on Titus 2 that the others families do.

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20 hours ago, squiddysquid said:

I think he makes her feel dumb on purpose holding it over her head. There was a source claiming to know derick from bible school saying he would ridicule Jill publicly if she got scripture wrong.

A duggar academy alumni is the only one who'd call Ofjill smart and educated feeding his complex.

I don't think that is the case anymore, it might have been earlier on, and maybe that is when Cathy stepped in.  I see Derick being much easier going with her lately, and I think that is his mothers doing.  I think she had a come to Jesus with him and told him to man up and be the man his father wanted him to be.  He's really settled down with law school and seems to be warming up to fatherhood. I think she's been a HUGE influence on Jill and is helping Jill realize, that it isn't Jill's fault she knows so little, but her parents. With their, at best, misguided attempts at protecting her from evils they couldn't face. 

Remember, JB & M were sucked in to Gothard's cult at a vulnerable time in their life, right after she miscarried, this is how most cults gain members they prey on people at weak points in their lives.  I'm not excusing their continued involvement in this cult, as they weren't stranded in some locked compound where they couldn't escape without risking their lives and their kids lives, at some point they made a conscious effort to double down on the Quiverful bull shit, even at the objection of his parents and hers.  So it may have started out as a weak moment, but it turned into their choice to have 19 children when they couldn't afford to care for them financially or emotionally.

What this long winded reply is saying is Cathy, and Derick can word this in such a way that her parents aren't the bad guys, let Jill come to that conclusion on her own, and with kindness and education from them she may eventually come to that conclusion.  

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22 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I don't think that is the case anymore, it might have been earlier on, and maybe that is when Cathy stepped in.  I see Derick being much easier going with her lately, and I think that is his mothers doing.  I think she had a come to Jesus with him and told him to man up and be the man his father wanted him to be.  He's really settled down with law school and seems to be warming up to fatherhood. I think she's been a HUGE influence on Jill and is helping Jill realize, that it isn't Jill's fault she knows so little, but her parents. With their, at best, misguided attempts at protecting her from evils they couldn't face. 

Where did you read about this come to Jesus/Cathy intervening in her son's unacceptable behaviour?  

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41 minutes ago, acheronbeach said:

Where did you read about this come to Jesus/Cathy intervening in her son's unacceptable behaviour?  

I said, I think she did, and that OPINION comes from the change in his behavior. He was acting like petulant child for a while there, and SOMETHING made him change his demeanor, and I'm fairly certain the ONLY person who could do that was his mother. He may be an adult but if mama comes over and says stop acting like a dick, you stop and think about it,  or maybe it was his brother. It would have to be a family member like Cathy or Dan (IMO), to for him to really look at himself and go, yeah, I need to stop.

This is just a theory I have, maybe he did it on his own, maybe he's just put himself in twitter jail, or maybe it was the law school, who knows, but something has made him stop being such a dick, at least publicly.  But you can even tell from pics and stuff on Jill's insta he seems more at ease and comfortable with Jill and the boys.  So it makes me think (IN MY OPINION) that something occurred to make him to make him man up, or adult up would be a better way to put it.  

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On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 1:13 PM, HarleyQuinn said:

Jill's response to that question sounds inept and dumb. Parents don't need to remember every scrape and bruise but a face plant significant enough to cause damage to the teeth is probably something most would remember. 

Nope - my son managed to somehow get a hard enough whack to his mouth that he caused a dead tooth. NO IDEA how it happened. I vaguely remember when it started - because I thought he wasn't brushing well enough? But then someone else pointed it out and then his bitchy teacher pointed it out.  
I still have NO IDEA how it happened. I know how every other scar happened. But that one - I'm still confused about. 
That tooth stayed in his mouth for at least a year after we first noticed it too - and the one behind seems to be okay - but... still just a mystery.

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55 minutes ago, Meggo said:

Nope - my son managed to somehow get a hard enough whack to his mouth that he caused a dead tooth. NO IDEA how it happened. I vaguely remember when it started - because I thought he wasn't brushing well enough? But then someone else pointed it out and then his bitchy teacher pointed it out.  
I still have NO IDEA how it happened. I know how every other scar happened. But that one - I'm still confused about. 
That tooth stayed in his mouth for at least a year after we first noticed it too - and the one behind seems to be okay - but... still just a mystery.

Maybe it happened at school? My daughter came home from kindergarten with a busted blood vessel in her eye. I hadn’t noticed it in the morning before I had dropped her off, and the teacher had no clue, and it healed fine with zero lasting effects.  

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4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

One of the quickest reasons why cults end ,and its usually in the second generation, is because money dries up. So, the Dillards no longer being filmed means that it’s likely they are no longer drawing an easy TLC paycheck. As far as we know, neither Jill nor Derick has a job that would easily provide for their average sized family. Unless they are being supported by someone else, are drawing from a trust, or are receiving government assistance, they must have financial concerns. Making a decision to no longer sell yourself or your family for public consumption (or having that decision made for you d/t the liabilities you pose) has consequences. Having to support their family on their own volition will likely affect the decisions Jill and Derick make. If you expect to last in the every day working world, you have to tone down the crazy. Look at Joseph Maxwell. He has a job outside of Steve’s domain, and he and his family do not have the exposure on Titus 2 that the others families do.

You are forgetting that Jill is still making money out of being who she is, who her family is. She may be a shitty influencer, but she still has a large following and the brands she endorses probably pay big bucks

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4 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I don't think that is the case anymore, it might have been earlier on, and maybe that is when Cathy stepped in.  I see Derick being much easier going with her lately, and I think that is his mothers doing.  I think she had a come to Jesus with him and told him to man up and be the man his father wanted him to be.  He's really settled down with law school and seems to be warming up to fatherhood. I think she's been a HUGE influence on Jill and is helping Jill realize, that it isn't Jill's fault she knows so little, but her parents. With their, at best, misguided attempts at protecting her from evils they couldn't face. 

Remember, JB & M were sucked in to Gothard's cult at a vulnerable time in their life, right after she miscarried, this is how most cults gain members they prey on people at weak points in their lives.  I'm not excusing their continued involvement in this cult, as they weren't stranded in some locked compound where they couldn't escape without risking their lives and their kids lives, at some point they made a conscious effort to double down on the Quiverful bull shit, even at the objection of his parents and hers.  So it may have started out as a weak moment, but it turned into their choice to have 19 children when they couldn't afford to care for them financially or emotionally.

What this long winded reply is saying is Cathy, and Derick can word this in such a way that her parents aren't the bad guys, let Jill come to that conclusion on her own, and with kindness and education from them she may eventually come to that conclusion.  

Cathy? Is that you? :kitty-shifty:

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17 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

You are forgetting that Jill is still making money out of being who she is, who her family is. She may be a shitty influencer, but she still has a large following and the brands she endorses probably pay big bucks

The brands are really modest, financially speaking. She probably just gets free clothes, which may be a good deal, but earning money from IG is very difficult. I think influencers try to sound as they earn a lot, but only a minority receives real money in their bank account. Also, the fact that the companies let her post that horrible pictures, with wrinkled clothes, bad lighting and ill-fitting trousers, is an evidence that they don't pay Jill. 

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4 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I said, I think she did, and that OPINION comes from the change in his behavior. He was acting like petulant child for a while there, and SOMETHING made him change his demeanor, and I'm fairly certain the ONLY person who could do that was his mother. He may be an adult but if mama comes over and says stop acting like a dick, you stop and think about it,  or maybe it was his brother. It would have to be a family member like Cathy or Dan (IMO), to for him to really look at himself and go, yeah, I need to stop.

This is just a theory I have, maybe he did it on his own, maybe he's just put himself in twitter jail, or maybe it was the law school, who knows, but something has made him stop being such a dick, at least publicly.  But you can even tell from pics and stuff on Jill's insta he seems more at ease and comfortable with Jill and the boys.  So it makes me think (IN MY OPINION) that something occurred to make him to make him man up, or adult up would be a better way to put it.  

Sounds like Dillard fanfic to me.  There's no evidence of this, but it's a fairly detailed story about Derick Dillard's Magical Change of Heart toward Women.  He was once a misogynist... treated his wife like garbage... in rode the heroine of our story, Cathy... the only person who could truly change Derick was his Strong Feminist Mother, who decided after several years of demonstrated assholery by her son, enough was enough... and gave him a come to Jesus moment... and then Derick Dillard was forevermore respectful, kind and egalitarian.  

It doesn't even accord with what we know about Derick and Cathy.  It seems like Jill gets along with Cathy and respects her and vice versa, but that's about it.   We  know that Cathy has been uncritically defensive at criticism of her precious lil' asshole's past behaviour.  We also know that she seems to share his Christian beliefs, and she's the one who raised him with said beliefs.  Hell, as recently as January of this year, we have Derick being a total asshole to Jill about the mouse in the kitchen (and IIRC, not a peep from @cldilla).  Cathy's been around for the whole relationship.  A change of heart four/five-odd years on makes no sense at all. 

I agree that Derick is presenting as less of an asshole, but I don't know why.  My suspicion, just based on the the fact that this change of heart seemed to have happened mostly over the summer, is that his experience at the AG's office has opened his eyes to a wider variety of life experiences.  But who knows?  

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