Dillards 79: Sex Education on the Fly

[DarkAnts]

20 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I have some thoughts:

1. Someone on here PM'd me.  Because she had a story to get off her chest and was afraid ( maybe not the right word) of how it would be recieved.  She was sexually harrassed by a female of importance in her life. One that she had to see here and there after the fact.  She felt safe telling me, in private.  I was happy she did.  One should always have a safe place to Express their feelings about a situation no matter what.  It's real. I believe her.  

2. Part of the fun of being the only girl child, at the time, in a construction/mechanic family is that, they needed help. So, it was me. Even if there were more males at the time, if I showed interest they all would've embraced me with some minor hazing. I still got some hazing. Par for the course and hilarious pranks ensued!  Anyway, I got to see and hear lots of *guy stuff*.  Their not bad people.  The younger ones were horndogs but respected women overall.  It gave me an education like no other!  I'd get back with my shitty BF and the guys would tell me things like " just so you know, if you accept this date, he will think he's in the clear." No further thought,  just things smoothed over and they knew I didn't feel that way. They were right!  He didn't become the BF I wanted. He just *won*. 

3. My male friends ( I've always had more male than female friends) were the first to, upon hearing, come over to " babysit" me when repair guys came over.  My uncles would say it's part of the act. But, they could barely imagine me dating. Lol!  Those same uncles did the same thing though!  Because unlike females, they hear the real talk. Simple as that.  Only trusted servicemen were allowed unattended.  

4. It can be confusing.  Here I have stated love and well, sometimes overprotective males in my life as well as gross perverts in the wild.

  They had a point, as I found out over and over.  But, so many men have been beyond amazing and no where near creepy in my life.  It's fn confusing!  I actually credit the men for making me aware. I just assumed it was what is was. Even worse, to like it because attention!  Other women wore a badge of honor with each inappropriate encounter. It meant you were desirable.  They came home to tell the tale, getting family upset but kinda digging the attention.  I am guilty of this too. Men taught me to tell creepers off! That I don't have to accept it. Fuck that. 

I believe the person who PM you. Women do sexually harass other women. They also do it to men. Men are not the only ones who sexually harass others.

[OyToTheVey]

My apartment is getting renovated so I've had A LOT of contact with different servicemen. When large deliveries(appliances/furniture) came, I usually had my dad handle it. Not because I can't or don't want to but I'm very uncomfortable being alone with 2 delivery guys I've never met. Not trying to start anything but a lot of men take friendly behavior all wrong. I also don't pass by a construction zone. I always cross the street. I hate the oogling that a lot of the guys do. It just makes me feel horribly uncomfortable. 

[Beermeet]

27 minutes ago, DarkAnts said:

I believe the person who PM you. Women do sexually harass other women. They also do it to men. Men are not the only ones who sexually harass others.

Absolutely!  Seriously,  it's the same type that twist their own harrassment to their advantage.  They find a sick pleasure in such interactions.  An ego boost?  Something.  Equally not ok. I mean, women have sent men to jail on flase rape accusations.  However,  that doesn't excuse or invalidate the fact many women do not feel safe alone with a man. Yes, stranger danger.  It's a thing. Trust is earned. Just because I need help doesn't mean they can behave inappropriately.  Doesn't mean I won't be very cautious .  I once called my property management company about a serviceman who was not only drunk or on something but being creepy.  That was, ummmmm, a waste of time. I was made to feel in the wrong. I had two small kids at the time. My shower head was broken. Dude actually said, with a creepy grin " oh so you're all dirty now huh, don't worry I'll get all cleaned up".  But, I'm the weirdo!  Riiight.  I played with my kids in the front yard the whole time. Ick!  

[AliceInFundyland]

I was mugged at at twilight by a group of adolescent girls. My radar had been up. I should have moved to a different bus stop (with other people) when I first saw them  five blocks away.

I strongly prefer to walk at night with headphones.

I wear one. If I see any person of any color or age or gender in my sightline I cross the street and change direction. Period. With confidence. My neighborhood has a fully diverse crowd of kooks.

In outdoor contexts women who aren't paying attention and being confident often are the

ones who are attacked. Serial killers and rapists will tell you that.

Also do not want to be hit by a car. I am perpetually terrible about being distracted in intersections.

In my apartment I hang out with any new person who is about to come through. That's education for you. I've learned interesting things about building repairs and whatnot. Might not have if I had a fella. But my fellas have also taught me some things about self-protection and awareness that I wouldn't have thought of growing up on a rural ass street in Kansas.

Do what makes you feel comfortable based on your life experiences.

[HarleyQuinn]

Oh, fuck Jill. You know the only reason she's probably not sitting back there consoling her child is because she and Wreck need to be seated next to each other at all times.

Edited August 26, 2019 by HarleyQuinn

[Rachel333]

Eh, edited. I'll just say that "they like the attention" is often used to justify sexual harassment, while there's also an issue of women and girls being socialized to feel like harassment is a compliment, so it's a complicated issue.

Personally, all the me too stuff has made me feel more than ever that I don't want to talk about my own experiences with sexual harassment, since every story I've read with a male harasser and a female victim has prompted tons of comments about how it wasn't that bad because it wasn't rape, or derailing with "not all men" comments, or talking about what the woman did wrong, or talking about false accusations that have nothing to do with the situation in question, etc.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Rachel333

[Beermeet]

23 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Wait, are you saying that these other women enjoyed aspects of being sexually harassed? I found your post kind of hard to follow so I could be wrong. It's one thing to talk about how you personally have felt that way, but it sounds like you're assuming this about other women just based on how they've told stories of sexual harassment. Unfortunately "they like the attention" is often used to justify sexual harassment.

And I too believe the person who PMed you, and I hope she's okay with you publicly talking about a private message and bringing up her trauma on this thread.

I am not joking around when I say that I've seen women do this.  It made my experiences feel worthless and unimportant.  I didn't like it.  I was told that I'm pretty and to expect it. That I'm wearing a nice dress that of course will bring attention. That we were lucky our men were so protective.  It means they love us.  Meanwhile,  later, I found out all that is part of an unhealthy relationship cycle. I wanted the BF who would kick ass for me.  Like some of my family and friends had. I learned later I was lucky to not have that. I'm sorry if I came across flippant about this. I'm actually really embarrassed and ashamed of myself for not sticking up for myself,  for keeping sweet, for wanting that kind of attention.  Yes, I have seen quite a few women rile up their husbands or BF's with embellished stories while out and about. To gain attention and make the men pissed off. To the point of BF or husband fighting said male perpetrator.  While she smiled and enjoyed the fighting over her.  I'm not joking. In the early 90's on L.I. Things seem different now. I think, I haven't lived there for quite sometime.  But, make no mistake, I mean what I say. 

As far as the person I mentioned.  I wasn't sure I should bring that up. But, ultimately felt on this topic, that scenario should be brought up. No one knows who. I forget who. I didn't out anyone. She wanted to share publically but was weary of the reception she may get. So, there is *anonymous female's* story, at least the very short version.  What does she think? Idk. Probably relieved people are agreeing and believing her. 

Eta: your first question.  No, I'm not saying they enjoyed it. I'm saying they created it. Two totally different evils. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Beermeet

[lizzybee]

On 8/24/2019 at 3:43 AM, Smee said:

And yes, some people will get offended. But I have a right to feel safe and to choose where I go or who I invite into my home. Male friends of mine have been offended that I don’t hug them, too, but it makes me uncomfortable and I don’t think I should have to push through that for their sake.

This made me think of Jill's history with abuse and consider that she also could be fearful of men coming into her home without her husband present. I doubt that's anywhere near the biggest reason their rule is in place, but it makes me more sympathetic to that rule in general. Everyone has the right to set the boundaries with other people that they're comfortable with in personal interactions. 

Anecdotally, there were some big dudes in my house a while back delivering furniture who spoke kind of roughly to me. My husband was home because he thought he might need to help and I'm glad he was. Frankly, they did make me uncomfortable and I was glad I wasn't just by myself with the toddlers while they were there. On the flip side though, I've had a plethora of people we've hired come to the house and I've never felt that way otherwise. It was just incidental he was there that time when I wasn't so comfortable. 

[Rachel333]

57 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Eta: your first question.  No, I'm not saying they enjoyed it. I'm saying they created it. Two totally different evils. 

(Ah, you caught me before the edit went through! ) Anyway, so you're saying they made it up? I definitely didn't get that, and, well, that topic is a whole other can of worms!

You also shouldn't feel embarrassed or ashamed for not sticking up for yourself or for enjoying it. It's a complicated part of female socialization for sure, and unfortunately a lot of women think they should be flattered by harassment.

[VelociRapture]

14 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

This made me think of Jill's history with abuse and consider that she also could be fearful of men coming into her home without her husband present. I doubt that's anywhere near the biggest reason their rule is in place, but it makes me more sympathetic to that rule in general. Everyone has the right to set the boundaries with other people that they're comfortable with in personal interactions. 

Anecdotally, there were some big dudes in my house a while back delivering furniture who spoke kind of roughly to me. My husband was home because he thought he might need to help and I'm glad he was. Frankly, they did make me uncomfortable and I was glad I wasn't just by myself with the toddlers while they were there. On the flip side though, I've had a plethora of people we've hired come to the house and I've never felt that way otherwise. It was just incidental he was there that time when I wasn't so comfortable. 

I’m glad someone finally brought this up. I was thinking it, meant to say it, and then forgot because pregnancy brain is in full force. I have no doubt that’s not the only reason the Dills follow this rule, but considering the history it’s entirely possible. I can’t say I’d blame Jill if she does feel genuinely uncomfortable given the fact that she was a victim of abuse herself. 

My husband prefers to be home when we need work done or something delivered. It’s not because he doesn’t trust me or because I’m scared of something happening - it’s because we have a toddler, I’m almost 7 months pregnant, and our 30 pound dog is insane. I legitimately need help sometimes getting our dog crated if the person arrives prior to her being in the crate already, so having him there can be a huge help for that alone.

(Our Dog is a big softie and just wants to love everyone, but she’s really excitable about it and we don’t want anyone getting scared or unintentionally hurt because of that. So that’s why she gets crated - an overabundance of love. Lol!)

I haven’t had any “close calls” or anything like what some have shared here happen to me. A few really minor things, but I’ve never felt truly in danger of physical or sexual harm. I am still cautious when I’m out and about though, even in broad daylight. Especially if I have my toddler with me. I have to be to keep her from getting hit by cars anyways, but I do keep an eye out for anyone or anything that just looks a bit odd for the setting. My town seems to have a problem with drugs - I believe opiates - so I’m mostly just watching out for people who might be high, but I keep an eye out for anything that just seems off. I will admit that I do feel safer when my husband is with me/us, simply because he’s over 6 feet tall and I know I can trust him to help protect me/us if anything happens (as I would for him in return.)  

[Beermeet]

4 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

(Ah, you caught me before the edit went through! ) Anyway, so you're saying they made it up? I definitely didn't get that, and, well, that topic is a whole other can of worms!

You also shouldn't feel embarrassed or ashamed for not sticking up for yourself or for enjoying it. It's a complicated part of female socialization for sure, and unfortunately a lot of women think they should be flattered by harassment.

Lol! 

I'm sorry you feel it hard to talk about your experiences for fear of being judged. Not cool!  I guess I'm trying to be honest about it all, work through it and maybe that is why I came across weird.  I appreciate #metoo because I know I'm not alone now.  I'm not just sensitive or whatever.

So, they didn't make it up, per say.  What really happened is she would get cat called or flirted with and made sure to tell BF, get a rise out of him ( he was already predisposed to " being manly") , add embellishments as needed.  To feel "love" and protected by the BF.  If the BF went to confront said other guy, a fight may ensue. Usually at least words and pushing.  This reinforced the couples already toxic relationship.  Didn't seem toxic to me at 16-22. It seemed cool.  Even then, sometimes,  it was clearly a dangerous game and not what I wanted.  I wanted the light version of that. Whatever that means.  In HS, a protective BF was coveted.  I'm not sure I'm explaining this correctly!  My fellow HS'ers would understand immediately.  Bottom line, I in no way want to dismiss harrassment.  And, I really hope those girls grew up and  learned to find value in other ways.  However, and my point is, girls can and do lie. To gain attention from the men in their lives in unhealthy ways.  I don't think we have enough time to unpack all that right now!  It's an unhealthy cycle. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

Let's all remember that false sexual harassment and assault accusations are quite low, less than 5 percent. While unreported cases are probably several times higher than reported.

 

That said, I work on not being afraid out at night or with a service person alone. I don't want to have my movement restricted and men are more likely to be mugged or otherwise attacked in public anyway. I'm skeptical that confident-looking women are targeted too.

[AtlanticTug]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

 

My husband prefers to be home when we need work done or something delivered. It’s not because he doesn’t trust me or because I’m scared of something happening - it’s because we have a toddler, I’m almost 7 months pregnant, and our 30 pound dog is insane. I legitimately need help sometimes getting our dog crated if the person arrives prior to her being in the crate already, so having him there can be a huge help for that alone.

I have an 80 lb German-bred, imported German Shepherd, highly trained as a personal protection dog. It's the main reason it would never occur to me to need anyone at home with me, lol. One look at him and most people basically crap themselves.

But honestly if you have a 30 lb dog and can't get him crated alone, I'd spend some time training. No judgment - trust me we spent more $ than I like to think about and even more time, but I have a dog that I consider to be 99% predictable when he is under my control. The other 1% you'll never get to even if your dog is perfect in every way. But for a pet, while you may not need that level of obedience, with 2 young kids around I'd 100% make sure that the dog goes to his place instantly on command, stays there and goes to his crate if you need him to. That's kind of the minimum, really...

[fluffernutter]

Oh my word. Her newest instagram story is that one of her kids got gum stuck in her hair, then he helped her find it, then he starting chewing it again. ??

[VelociRapture]

8 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I have an 80 lb German-bred, imported German Shepherd, highly trained as a personal protection dog. It's the main reason it would never occur to me to need anyone at home with me, lol. One look at him and most people basically crap themselves.

But honestly if you have a 30 lb dog and can't get him crated alone, I'd spend some time training. No judgment - trust me we spent more $ than I like to think about and even more time, but I have a dog that I consider to be 99% predictable when he is under my control. The other 1% you'll never get to even if your dog is perfect in every way. But for a pet, while you may not need that level of obedience, with 2 young kids around I'd 100% make sure that the dog goes to his place instantly on command, stays there and goes to his crate if you need him to. That's kind of the minimum, really...

We have done training, both basic obedience and a special reactive dog course. She’s deceptively strong for her size though and she just gets so excited when someone shows up that it can be tough for me to wrangle her right now (because I move slower when I’m pregnant and I probably shouldn’t be lifting her much.) I have no issues getting her to listen otherwise because we trained her to go to her crate, go to her mat, sit, stay, etc. and she normally does a great job of following commands. She even listens to our daughter and goes to her crate if our toddler is holding a treat. It’s literally only when someone shows up at the house because she gets so excited she loses all chill and simply can’t focus. 

[AtlanticTug]

Just now, VelociRapture said:

It’s literally only when someone shows up at the house because she gets so excited she loses all chill and simply can’t focus. 

It's very common. But you can train that out of the dog and it would make your life so much easier. Not only because you don't want the dog jumping on people or acting like a lunatic, but you don't want them running out the door or whatever else they could get up to when they're overly excited. Mine is required to be lying down when the bell rings or somebody arrives, no barking, and is not allowed to get up until I have told him to do so. If I wish him to bark, he does. Again, I wouldn't say to people that a regular pet dog needs that level of obedience, and I don't want it to seem like I managed to get to this point overnight (it took months of consistent training with a trainer, in our home and out). But I absolutely would not tolerate craziness when people come to the door. That takes the dog from a lovely pet to frankly, a nuisance.

[SassyPants]

16 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Oh my word. Her newest instagram story is that one of her kids got gum stuck in her hair, then he helped her find it, then he starting chewing it again. ??

I actually muttered “Oh, Jill” when I saw it. If she had ever shown 1 iota of passive aggressive behavior, I’d think she was trolling us. Jill is just really immature, lacking in self awareness and practical life experience. Why would she put that on social media? She needs a life mentor.

[HarryPotterFan]

10 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Oh my word. Her newest instagram story is that one of her kids got gum stuck in her hair, then he helped her find it, then he starting chewing it again. ??

We didn’t need a picture of the chewed up gum, Jill.

I feel like I might be starting a new topic of doom by asking this, but is it okay to give a four year old gum? I probably wouldn’t trust a kid that age with it.

Jill filming Sam having a meltdown and laughing about it reminds me of when one of the Howlers got seriously injuried and everyone’s reaction was to whip out their phones and film it. It’s been said before, but damn growing up on TV really warped her idea of what is normal. And growing up with JB and Mechelle as parents. The two of them are really awful at reacting to a child in distress. There are reality TV parents whose instinct it would be to comfort the kid (and then take about it on TV later...). The combination of the two is really a killer.

[VelociRapture]

6 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

It's very common. But you can train that out of the dog and it would make your life so much easier. Not only because you don't want the dog jumping on people or acting like a lunatic, but you don't want them running out the door or whatever else they could get up to when they're overly excited. Mine is required to be lying down when the bell rings or somebody arrives, no barking, and is not allowed to get up until I have told him to do so. If I wish him to bark, he does. Again, I wouldn't say to people that a regular pet dog needs that level of obedience, and I don't want it to seem like I managed to get to this point overnight (it took months of consistent training with a trainer, in our home and out). But I absolutely would not tolerate craziness when people come to the door. That takes the dog from a lovely pet to frankly, a nuisance.

Thinking about it, we did manage to desensitize her to the toaster (it makes a “ding” sound and she would bark at it every single time.) We could probably desensitize her to the doorbell and knocking too if we use treats to associate the sounds with positive reinforcement. That wouldn’t help much considering she starts getting overly excited if she sees people out of the window, but it’d still be better than nothing. 

[Fundie Bunny]

17 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

feel like I might be starting a new topic of doom by asking this, but is it okay to give a four year old gum? I probably wouldn’t trust a kid that age with it.

I ate one when i was 4. But I'm okay, so probably whatever, don't do it everyday and no one will die

[VelociRapture]

21 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

We didn’t need a picture of the chewed up gum, Jill.

I feel like I might be starting a new topic of doom by asking this, but is it okay to give a four year old gum? I probably wouldn’t trust a kid that age with it.

Jill filming Sam having a meltdown and laughing about it reminds me of when one of the Howlers got seriously injuried and everyone’s reaction was to whip out their phones and film it. It’s been said before, but damn growing up on TV really warped her idea of what is normal. And growing up with JB and Mechelle as parents. The two of them are really awful at reacting to a child in distress. There are reality TV parents whose instinct it would be to comfort the kid (and then take about it on TV later...). The combination of the two is really a killer.

 

1 minute ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I ate one when i was 4. But I'm okay, so probably whatever, don't do it everyday and no one will die

It probably depends on the kid to be honest. If he is old enough to understand that gum is to be chewed rather than swallowed then it’s probably fine. My daughter isn’t old enough for that yet, so I could be wrong. 

[HarryPotterFan]

5 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I ate one when i was 4. But I'm okay, so probably whatever, don't do it everyday and no one will die

I guess my main worry is four year olds run around constantly and could easily trip and end up choking or something.

Edited August 27, 2019 by HarryPotterFan

[SilverBeach]

7 hours ago, Beermeet said:

As women, we really do encounter uncomfortable ( at least) situations with men. 

Never said we didn't. I'm 64, do you think this hasn't happened to me? I'm fat, always have been, sometimes more fat than at other times, so maybe I just don't get the attention other women do.  But I have had men talk to my chest and commit other inappropriate behaviors. I never said all men are angels. I know they aren't, 42 years in the workplace and I have seen and experienced harassment, including being pressed up against the wall as a very young woman. And raped by a guy who was a friend of a friend. And molested by my stepfather. And repeatedly cheated on by my former husband.  I just haven't had problems with creepy repair people or technicians. I did encounter a creepy guy a few weeks ago, at, of all places, the Salvation Army donation center. He was inappropriately flirtatious with me and I reported him. 

Maybe I should be more wary of men given my experience. It's a wonder I don't hate them. Thankfully, I have a good one now, didn't think men like him existed really.  Despite my experiences, I always maintained a stance of judging people as individuals being so marginalized myself, as a fat, black, woman. IN NO WAY HAVE I MEANT TO INVALIDATE ANYTHING ANYBODY HAS EXPERIENCED since I have gone through these things myself. As a minority, I'm just so leery of painting entire groups with a broad brush.  My apologies to those who were offended, and I hope everyone who has suffered sexual abuse is healing, although these wounds cut deep.

I must say that when I was raising my daughter as a single parent, I was very protective of her and would not allow strange men around her. I didn't date much when she was small, not only because I didn't have the time but because I didn't trust anybody after what I went through. No man ever came to my home when I was raising her, and having some man babysit her? Unimaginable. So I do get having trepedation, but I'm glad now to know that good men exist.

Peace and best wishes to all. Must go watch the final episode of the Leah Remini $cientology series now. Interestingly, they are now discussing child sexual abuse in the organization. Reprehensible.

Edited August 27, 2019 by SilverBeach

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, fluffernutter said:

Oh my word. Her newest instagram story is that one of her kids got gum stuck in her hair, then he helped her find it, then he starting chewing it again. ??

I feel like that's God's way of telling her she needs to cut a foot of it off.

[PennySycamore]

@SilverBeach,  I'm going to have to catch the last episode of the Leah Remini series ON Demand.  I'd forgotten about it and now I'm deep in The Maltese Falcon.

@AtlanticTug,  I need the name of your dog trainer.  My dogs react at every little noise.  Put a  teacup down quietly on the countertop?  Let's bark!  My Lab mix is the real problem though.  She goes absolutely bonkers when someone comes to the door.