Andrea Mills of YouTube infamy Had Cancer and Died

[under siege]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

There's a lot of denial on Tom's part.  I would be lying if I said I wasn't wondering- is Tom's mom retired?  If not, maybe she could come during the day.  I know if it was my grandbabies, that's exactly what I would do.  Same for my nieces and nephews.  No way could I sit home, knowing they were all alone, grieving, and trying to take care of each other and a house.  Those kids need an adult at home with them during the day.  Leaving them like this just isn't right.

1

Yes, Grandma Kitty is a retired teacher.  I really hope she has quite a bit to do with the girls, especially Eden, in the year to come.

When Andrea was rushed to the hospital and Tom did all the updates, I was quite shocked to hear that, at that point, the two older boys were home with baby Hannah and the other five kids went to stay with Andrea's sister.
Not that I'm saying that Grandma Kitty should have all five kids for an unknown time frame but it all seemed a bit odd. She's had 2-3 kids for a night here and there (which is fantastic of her getting to spend time with different kids at different times) and they have shown her place with appeared quite spacious so I did wonder why they weren't there. Although maybe her health isn't great, who knows.

[ven]

i watched the follow up video Tom posted , apparantly they got some results back . The source tumor was an iflammatory breast cancer who was left unattended. I am by no means a doctor , but wouldnt she have had serious symptons? Even Tom should have noticed something..

Edited September 10, 2019 by ven

[meee]

Okay, this is a dumb question but I don't know much about cancer.

How can they tell the difference between "regular" and metastatic cancer in a scan? Do the tumors look different? I remember originally they had found cancer in Andrea's liver (? if i remember right?) but they weren't sure where the original cancer was from, and somebody here said something like, if they don't know where the cancer started that's a bad sign. But why wouldn't they have assumed it started in her liver to begin with?

[under siege]

49 minutes ago, meee said:

Okay, this is a dumb question but I don't know much about cancer.

How can they tell the difference between "regular" and metastatic cancer in a scan? Do the tumors look different? I remember originally they had found cancer in Andrea's liver (? if i remember right?) but they weren't sure where the original cancer was from, and somebody here said something like, if they don't know where the cancer started that's a bad sign. But why wouldn't they have assumed it started in her liver to begin with?

A basic answer is metastasis is the spread of cancer cells to different areas of the body.
There are so many forms of cancer showing up in so many different ways.

With Andrea, it appeared as cells in her liver and gall bladder (which was removed - the reason she went to hospital in the first place) but they knew that wasn't the source. It was assumed that it was bile duct cancer for various factors. It was only after her passing and funeral that Tom received the news of actual location.
 

[fundiefollower]

6 hours ago, ven said:

i watched the follow up video Tom posted , apparantly they got some results back . The source tumor was an iflammatory breast cancer who was left unattended. I am by no means a doctor , but wouldnt she have had serious symptons? Even Tom should have noticed something..

Inflammatory breast cancer often has minimal signs.  Usually no lump is found.  More often dimpling is noted, inverted nipples, red spots.  She was also nursing and pregnant and could have thought breast changes were from that.  Also, I think blaming Tom for not finding her breast cancer is ridiculous! I'm sure he wishes things had turned out differently but I hope he doesn't blame himself.  That is just wrong.

1 hour ago, meee said:

Okay, this is a dumb question but I don't know much about cancer.

How can they tell the difference between "regular" and metastatic cancer in a scan? Do the tumors look different? I remember originally they had found cancer in Andrea's liver (? if i remember right?) but they weren't sure where the original cancer was from, and somebody here said something like, if they don't know where the cancer started that's a bad sign. But why wouldn't they have assumed it started in her liver to begin with?

Pathology can tell the difference under cellular examination. Certain markers or antigens are found in the cells that tell the pathologist where the cells started.  Certain cancers are also much more likely to spread to specific areas of the body than others as well.  Pathology can take awhile, often it is sent for second opinions. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by fundiefollower

[Queen Of Hearts]

In one of the videos Tom said that his mom (a retired teacher) is coming two days a week to help with care/schooling and that Andrea's sister (who uses the same curriculum) comes two days a week to also help.  Also, in a video you can see some woman washing dishes in the background (not sure if it is a sister or some other friend/relative).  I think there are many adults in the picture helping that we just aren't seeing featured.  This is good for the kids.  

As for the kids running the house, that doesn't seem so off to me only in the fact that if each of the older kids had 2-3 regular chores to do that would take up the majority of the daily housework, anyway.  I think it just sounds bad because most of us don't think of running a house in terms of having so many people in it!  Prior to Andrea's death, the older kids all seemed happy and responsible and good natured so I don't worry too much about them being tasked with too much the way I would in some other families.  

 

[jozina]

 

 

 

 

 

3

1 hour ago, meee said:

How can they tell the difference between "regular" and metastatic cancer in a scan? Do the tumors look different? I remember originally they had found cancer in Andrea's liver (? if i remember right?) but they weren't sure where the original cancer was from, and somebody here said something like, if they don't know where the cancer started that's a bad sign. But why wouldn't they have assumed it started in her liver to begin with?

Sometimes tumours do look different on scans. Some tumours have quite a characteristic appearance. A primary tumour will often (but not always) look different to a metastases or secondary tumour on scans. As a simple example if you see one tumour in the brain on a scan it's probably a primary. If you see multiple ones it's probably metastases. Otherwise they'll look at the pathology when they take samples of it. If the cancer cells don't look too different to the original organ then it's easy enough to tell on pathology which organ they've come from. If they have changed quite a bit then it may be harder, and different tests may come into play. If the tumour cells have changed a lot it may be very difficult to tell, but they can often characterise the type of tumour (eg glandular tissue). I've seen several patients who have had a very aggressive cancer where no-one's quite sure what the primary tumour was because the cells have changed too much to tell.

Pathology can be done quite quickly. With things like breast surgeries the pathologist is on stand by to give a brief report before the surgery is over. A full pathology report can take longer.

Inflammatory breast cancer is generally more noticeable on casual inspection than regular breast cancer/ductal carcinoma. It doesn't have a lump most of the time, but there are signs. Redness, swelling, tenderness, itching, nipple changes and enlargement of one breast. As I said earlier on really bothers me that Tom said there weren't - not their job to educate the masses but Rufus knows there are enough men giving women bad information about their bodies! If you've ever had or seen mastitis or a blocked duct from breastfeeding, it can looks quite similar to that. Inflammatory breast cancer does generally spread early on in the piece, because it's a tumour that has sort of seeded or spread through the breast and lymph tissue vs a single, solid tumour like a ductal carcinoma. Despite that early spread even a stage 4 inflammatory breast cancer has a median survival of nearly 2 years. Some people do survive it. Some people only survive for 3 months, which is terrible. There's no way of anyone knowing what kind of chance she may have had if she had been diagnosed in May or January or this time last year, but odds are she'd have been better off. Unfortunately all sorts of people can be in complete denial about symptoms being serious. I do worry about someone with inflammatory breast cancer coming across this discussion and thinking it's all doom and gloom no matter what, when that isn't the case. It is a very aggressive cancer, but it isn't a death sentence much of the time either.

(Standard disclaimer here - not medical advice. I'm not an oncologist but ex obs/gynae, not in a different area of medicine)

[fundiefollower]

13 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

In one of the videos Tom said that his mom (a retired teacher) is coming two days a week to help with care/schooling and that Andrea's sister (who uses the same curriculum) comes two days a week to also help.  Also, in a video you can see some woman washing dishes in the background (not sure if it is a sister or some other friend/relative).  I think there are many adults in the picture helping that we just aren't seeing featured.  This is good for the kids.  

As for the kids running the house, that doesn't seem so off to me only in the fact that if each of the older kids had 2-3 regular chores to do that would take up the majority of the daily housework, anyway.  I think it just sounds bad because most of us don't think of running a house in terms of having so many people in it!  Prior to Andrea's death, the older kids all seemed happy and responsible and good natured so I don't worry too much about them being tasked with too much the way I would in some other families.  

 

The woman washing dishes in the background is Aunt Suzie, Grandma Kitty's sister.  She is the one who adopted Tom's oldest daughter, Mileena, when Tom's first marriage fell apart when he was quite young.  She lives fairly nearby in WY, but not in Moorcroft.

[browngrl]

FYI

* Inflammatory breast cancer is a rarer subtype of breast cancer. It is quite aggressive and often has a very rapid onset of any symptoms (the patient may suddenly present with a very swollen red inflamed breast and this can be mistaken for infection as the onset is that rapid) and it has a poor prognosis. Some cancers just start out "big" ie they are metastatic or wide spread from the get go and there really is no early treatable stage. Inflammatory breast cancer can be like that. Medicine is getting better and better at catching more indolent breast cancers at a stage early enough to treat successfully but unfortunately the success rate with highly aggressive cancers is often poorer. I have no specific information on Andrea but I suspect that she had a very aggressive cancer and never really had a chance. 

* the difference between a localized cancer and a metastatic cancer is usually decided by radiology. CT/MRI/PET scans/bone scans/Ultrasound may be used to identify metastatic deposits. These will sometimes need to be biopsied to confirm it is a metastasis. Sometimes metastasis are identified during surgery and unfortunately sometimes mets are found when the patient has a complication eg a pathologic fracture though a met

 

* a pathologist will determine the grade of a tumour. Low grade (or less aggressive) tutor cells look relatively more similar to normal cells while high grade tumour cells look very abnormal. There can also be tumour markers that the path lab can identify. In generally the worst tumours are the ones that are so wildly abnormal that they can't produce tumour markers (eg "triple negative" breast cancers lack markers are are aggressive tumours). Pathologists can also identify if a tumour is locally invasive. The Remember that cancer cells can change over time to go from a low grade to a high grade. 

 

miscellaneous aside: breast cancer cells look remarkably like prostate cancer cells under the microscope 

edited to add: standard disclaimer that this is not medical advice - see your own doctor for that

Edited September 10, 2019 by browngrl
to add a disclaimer

[ark]

2 hours ago, meee said:

Okay, this is a dumb question but I don't know much about cancer.

How can they tell the difference between "regular" and metastatic cancer in a scan? Do the tumors look different? I remember originally they had found cancer in Andrea's liver (? if i remember right?) but they weren't sure where the original cancer was from, and somebody here said something like, if they don't know where the cancer started that's a bad sign. But why wouldn't they have assumed it started in her liver to begin with?

With my father's cancer, we learned that primary (original occurrence) cancer in the liver is very rare. When cancer is found in the liver, it has almost always spread from somewhere else in the body.

[VVV]

10 hours ago, under siege said:

Oh no, this is troubling. When I previously commented "not all 9 kids are going to come away from this okay" I had a bad feeling that Tom didn't know his kids too well and they, especially the older ones, were going to have to just toughen up and get on with life. My heart sincerely goes out to all of the kid but in particular Asher and Eden. I'm so worried about those two.   Soloman too, he's always seemed quite fragile emotion wise (even Andrea had said as much).  Fair enough, faith will HELP them through but kids need outlets for all the grief. Not just the sadness but the rage and everything else. If forced to internalize all this then some of them are really not going to come away from this okay

Faith might help some of them through but honestly I would expect at least some of the children to lose their faith when they find it isn't helpful or sufficient for them. Faith is no substitute for proper counseling and possibly medication when dealing with serious trauma, just like faith isn't going to substitute for insulin if someone has T1 diabetes.

1 hour ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Prior to Andrea's death, the older kids all seemed happy and responsible and good natured so I don't worry too much about them being tasked with too much the way I would in some other families.  

 

"prior to Andrea's death, the kids seemed happy" = "other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, browngrl said:

It is quite aggressive and often has a very rapid onset of any symptoms (the patient may suddenly present with a very swollen red inflamed breast and this can be mistaken for infection as the onset is that rapid) and it has a poor prognosis.

This is exactly what happened to my friend. 

 

[RosyDaisy]

This is exactly what happened to my friend. 
 

And my cousin.

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm watching the "Eat Dinner with Us" which is live in Youtube right now, and Tom said that he and Andrea weren't adverse to doctors, they're just against going for "every little thing" and things that are "unnecessary." Andrea was feeling poorly for quite awhile, for about three months before she went to the hospital. The last month was really bad and she was in a lot of pain. During this period, he also reports that she had light-headedness and wanted to go to the ER at two different points. The doctors examined her there and did bloodwork and did not discover her cancer. It was only on a third visit that they diagnosed her.

They also do not know for sure that Andrea's mother had inflammatory breast cancer. They never did a biopsy. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[FreeFundiesKids]

I am worried for Asher. he seemed like really sad or depressed in recent live vlog. I wish Tom would realize its too soon for vlogging- the oldest 3 kids really needs have therapy especially Asher

[Eternalbluepearl]

Holy goodness, that house! Too many people, too small of a house, too much stuff, It makes me claustrophobic! Mills market looks stocked right out of 1980 with nothing but sugar. That crib looks like a decades old drop side crib, infants in a moses basket on TOP of a dresser with blankets! It is 2019 for god sakes, we know better about safety.  24/7 Bible audio in every room is cruel to me. Like you can't even have a moment's peace. I don't want to be disrespectful but there are a lot of levels of sad here.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Eternalbluepearl

[feministxtian]

Metastatic cancer is a bitch. Everything spread from the first tumor in my husband's lung. At the end he had 4 tumors in his brain, 3 tumors in one lung, 1 tumor in the other lung, some sort of mass in the liver (they were never able to determine if it was another tumor) and one near his stomach. 

From official diagnosis (biopsy) to his death was 6 months and 22 days. We won't discuss the cluster fuck at the beginning that, if handled right could have stopped this right in its tracks. 

I can't get past the utter RAGE I feel at the VA. Between the malpractice and the rejection of his disability packet when he died, I'm ready to seriously go off on people. It angers me beyond belief. 

[Giraffe]

@feministxtian, I’m sorry for your loss. And yes, there are so many things wrong with the VA. 

 

 

Having an audio Bible on 24/7 sounds like a mind control tactic! I would go insane never having silence! It would also drive me away from having anything to do with the Bible or their beliefs, or anything associated with it. That sounds awful! My derision isn’t even about the Bible; I’d feel the same way if there were anything always on. That’s ridiculous. 

[under siege]

6 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'm watching the "Eat Dinner with Us" which is live in Youtube right now, and Tom said that he and Andrea weren't adverse to doctors, they're just against going for "every little thing" and things that are "unnecessary." Andrea was feeling poorly for quite awhile, for about three months before she went to the hospital. The last month was really bad and she was in a lot of pain. During this period, he also reports that she had light-headedness and wanted to go to the ER at two different points. The doctors examined her there and did bloodwork and did not discover her cancer. It was only on a third visit that they diagnosed her.

They also do not know for sure that Andrea's mother had inflammatory breast cancer. They never did a biopsy. 

What Tom's saying now seems to be somewhat of a pacification or 'damage control' to keep Andrea's ways/beliefs easier to palate the not so cult-like followers.
Andrea had mentioned her strong beliefs against mainstream health care numerous times. She mentioned taking children to a doctor/hospital only if there was something ultra-serious such as broken bones that her natural health care would not fix. Even when one of her children was bitten on the face by a dog was treated with herbs. I'm not saying a doctor was necessarily needed for the treatment itself but so much can go wrong with animal bites.
It was when she decided against vaccinations that she truly upped the stakes as to as her herbal remedies and natural health care.  Not that natural care is bad, (in fact, I use it myself to a certain degree) but to now make it seem she was okay with more of the medical world than what she mentioned in numerous vlogs? No Tom, no.

The going to a doctor several times before going to a hospital is concerning. Being so adverse to mainstream medical care would mean that doctors wouldn't have an up to date medical history which would have made things more difficult for any doctor. Not that that's an excuse for not getting answers but it would not have helped. Considering Andreas digestive and colon issues went on for years (she mentioned this a few times) it does make it sad that that history was not on file for the doctors to review.

Regardless of all that, hindsight is a bitch as is cancer. All the speculation in the world won't change what has happened and what could have been.
 

Edited September 14, 2019 by under siege

[under siege]

4 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Holy goodness, that house! Too many people, too small of a house, too much stuff, It makes me claustrophobic! Mills market looks stocked right out of 1980 with nothing but sugar. That crib looks like a decades old drop side crib, infants in a moses basket on TOP of a dresser with blankets! It is 2019 for god sakes, we know better about safety.  24/7 Bible audio in every room is cruel to me. Like you can't even have a moment's peace. I don't want to be disrespectful but there are a lot of levels of sad here.

The Moses basket was one of the few times I voiced my concern in a comment to Andrea. So did a lot of other people. Apparently, it was completely safe, no need for anyone to be worried, no baby had ever fallen etc etc.  A few months later Hannah was shown sitting up and rolling over in it. No, nothing to worry about at all ?

[ViolaSebastian]

7 hours ago, under siege said:

What Tom's saying now seems to be somewhat of a pacification or 'damage control' to keep Andrea's ways/beliefs easier to palate the not so cult-like followers.
Andrea had mentioned her strong beliefs against mainstream health care numerous times. She mentioned taking children to a doctor/hospital only if there was something ultra-serious such as broken bones that her natural health care would not fix. Even when one of her children was bitten on the face by a dog was treated with herbs. I'm not saying a doctor was necessarily needed for the treatment itself but so much can go wrong with animal bites.
It was when she decided against vaccinations that she truly upped the stakes as to as her herbal remedies and natural health care.  Not that natural care is bad, (in fact, I use it myself to a certain degree) but to now make it seem she was okay with more of the medical world than what she mentioned in numerous vlogs? No Tom, no.

The going to a doctor several times before going to a hospital is concerning. Being so adverse to mainstream medical care would mean that doctors wouldn't have an up to date medical history which would have made things more difficult for any doctor. Not that that's an excuse for not getting answers but it would not have helped. Considering Andreas digestive and colon issues went on for years (she mentioned this a few times) it does make it sad that that history was not on file for the doctors to review.

Regardless of all that, hindsight is a bitch as is cancer. All the speculation in the world won't change what has happened and what could have been.
 

Yeah, this struck me as hollow too. After watching Andrea talk about Claudia’s birth, you can’t convince me she wasn’t scared of medical professionals. 

[louannems]

I've always had the impression that the Mill's family snack all day long. The kids help themselves to PBJ sandwiches whenever.  And Andrea always had her snack baskets overflowing with Lil Debbie's and other sweet junk.

It really irks me to watch this family on the Dinner With the Mills livestream.  NO ONE EATS!!! Everyone just barely picks at their food, and they mostly only eat the bread. Growing kids should be hungry at mealtime!

And I never see salad or even just cut up fresh veggies.  I know Tom says he doesn't eat rabbit food so I guess the growing kids don't get them either.

And even with their beautiful vegetable garden, I never see sauted, roasted, steamed or grilled vegetables on their dinner plates! Just a tiny dab of some processed carbs, then big slabs of bread, and milk.

 

With only one bathroom and all those people, and no fiber in their diets, how do they all poop in a timely manner?

That said, I did love Andrea's videos as they helped me relax at bedtime.  They were my bedtime stories and I will truely miss them.  It's going to be so different with Tom.

 

[FreeFundiesKids]

so theres new video- Claudia's 4th birthday. 

[Chewing Gum]

On 9/10/2019 at 7:32 PM, hoipolloi said:

This is exactly what happened to my friend. 

 

This is what is happening to my friend right now. She had breastcancer 2,5 years ago, did chemo and was cleared. Her scan last July was clean. Two weeks ago she found a red, rash place on the breast and the biopsy shows metastatic cancer cells on her skin, in her breast and in her glands. That's bad. She had a Pet scan and MRI to show where the suckers are. We'll hear the results this Tuesday. It's not looking good and her kids are only 7,5,4. We are scared.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Chewing Gum

[Jody]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:17 AM, ven said:

i watched the follow up video Tom posted , apparantly they got some results back . The source tumor was an iflammatory breast cancer who was left unattended. I am by no means a doctor , but wouldnt she have had serious symptons? Even Tom should have noticed something..

Really? They should have know? A lot of cancers are completely unnoticable until it’s too late.