Andrea Mills of YouTube infamy Had Cancer and Died

[FecundFundieFundus]

@missy1228  Me too! Except I do worry because while Mr. Fecund is genuinely the kindest, most loving and gentle human I know, he's also a burly man with lots of facial hair and a resting "I'm mean and mad" face. 

[ViolaSebastian]

I ended up, by chance, watching her video where she talks about Claudia's birth. It was heart-wrenching. I can completely understand why she avoided medical professionals after that experience. She was a woman who, imho, was traumatized by the medical professionals in that situation. It wasn't handled well, they weren't fully honest with her, and they caused her unnecessary pain. It's clear she had unresolved issues related to that experience and quite frankly, I don't blame her for that. Not everyone has a good opinion of or experience with the medical system here in the United States. Many people avoid it, and for many people this avoidance is based on experience. We know that medical misogyny is alive and well. To say that her cancer would have been caught in time if she had a relationship with a GP is, for me, a bit of a leap to make. Maybe they would have caught it if she'd gone to a GP routinely; perhaps they would not have. I just can't blame her for avoiding medical professionals after watching that video and I don't consider the fact that her cancer was found as late as it was to be "her fault' for not seeing a doctor sooner. 

ETA: In case anyone is interested in watching it:

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[JenniferJuniper]

Granted, I live in a suburb of a major city, but my primary care doctor changes frequently.  They move to new practices, quit, retire, stop taking my insurance.  I've never had a "personal relationship" with any of them. 

Last spring I became deathly ill.  I didn't have the energy to walk across a room.  My temperature fluctuated wildly from abnormally low to abnormally high.   I had severe shoulder pain, hip and knee pain.  After nearly five days of this I dragged myself to my doctor, hoping to be diagnosed with the flu, even though I had no respiratory symptoms at all.  He tested, no flu.  And so I told him something was very wrong.  It wasn't like any flu I'd ever had, I was in bad pain and actually becoming confused, probably due to the extremes in body temps.

No, he said, while practically patting me on the head.  What you have is a flu-like illness.  It's definitely not bacterial, dear.  Drink lots of fluids.  He did no blood tests. 

I slowly improved, but never felt quite right again. Over a month later, I broke out in the strangest, hottest rash I'd ever seen. All over.  Back I went.  They were puzzled.  Had never seen anything like it.   But I had done my homework!  Using the Google machine I finally found a photo of a woman who had a rash just like mine.  Her doctors were puzzled too.  But eventually they diagnosed her with late stage Lyme disease.

I live in a part of the country were Lyme is nearly as common as a cold.  Most people realize they have it when they get one large bullseye and know they need to go straight to antibiotics.  I didn't get that warning.  But I knew if I told my doctor I self-diagnosed on Google he'd pooh pooh me again.  So I lied and said my son had Lyme a year earlier and he broke out in a rash just like mine.  So they tested me for Lyme, and yes, I was very positive on both tests.

I continued to have severe arthritis symptoms even after multiple courses of antibiotics, and they continued to worsen for months until they slowly got better.  Today over a year later I still have periodic knee, shoulder and ankle swelling and pain on one side of my body which all started with the Lyme.

I don't trust today's doctors.  They seem overworked and exhausted, and a "trust me, I'm a doctor" attitude often still prevails.  And so I absolutely understand someone who has had bad experiences avoiding them altogether. I'm not recommending it.  I just understand it.  

[FecundFundieFundus]

The person I mentioned who had a very sudden, very aggressive cancer went into remission for a short time. She persisted in communicating with her cancer team, the people she worked with during Round 1 and had a good relationship with. They didn't believe her when she said she was feeling "off." When it did show back up on tests/imaging, it was clear the cancer had been busily growing away in a different location while they were telling her she was fine. If you don't have medical trauma, imho you've just gotten lucky so far. It's a pervasive problem.

[under siege]

8 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

 But I had done my homework!  Using the Google machine I finally found a photo of a woman who had a rash just like mine.  Her doctors were puzzled too.  But eventually they diagnosed her with late stage Lyme disease.

I live in a part of the country were Lyme is nearly as common as a cold.  Most people realize they have it when they get one large bullseye and know they need to go straight to antibiotics.  I didn't get that warning.  But I knew if I told my doctor I self-diagnosed on Google he'd pooh pooh me again.  So I lied and said my son had Lyme a year earlier and he broke out in a rash just like mine.  So they tested me for Lyme, and yes, I was very positive on both tests.

 

4

My office manager had to do very similar to get answers to her mystery illness.  Went to quite a few doctors before even getting tests done that finally confirmed Lyme.
 

[JenniferJuniper]

2 hours ago, under siege said:

My office manager had to do very similar to get answers to her mystery illness.  Went to quite a few doctors before even getting tests done that finally confirmed Lyme.
 

I don't know where she lives, but if someone shows in the middle of summer with flu-like symptoms with a negative flu test and no respiratory symptoms - test for Lyme, dipshits!   Missing those early days and weeks of the infection can have devastating effects of someone's health.

[ViolaSebastian]

12 hours ago, FecundFundieFundus said:

If you don't have medical trauma, imho you've just gotten lucky so far. It's a pervasive problem.

As a side note, it interestingly doesn't have much research on it in the academic world. 

[under siege]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I don't know where she lives, but if someone shows in the middle of summer with flu-like symptoms with a negative flu test and no respiratory symptoms - test for Lyme, dipshits!   Missing those early days and weeks of the infection can have devastating effects of someone's health.

Absolutely. She spent two years splitting her time between Minnesota and New York. Flu and similar ruled out early on. So yes, you'd have thought there would be a few red flags with that, the rash, and other stuff going on, but apparently not.

No wonder some folk lose faith with doctors even when they don't go out of their way to avoid the medical profession almost completely.

Edited August 30, 2019 by under siege

[Palimpsest]

57 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I don't know where she lives, but if someone shows in the middle of summer with flu-like symptoms with a negative flu test and no respiratory symptoms - test for Lyme, dipshits!   Missing those early days and weeks of the infection can have devastating effects of someone's health.

I live in the North East of the US where Lyme has been prevalent for years.  I've had Lyme and so has Mr. P.  Presented with these symptoms, I think most MDs would immediately think of Lyme here.    We are very careful about tick prevention (long pants tucked into socks and Deet) when walking in woody areas.  We also do a careful tick check every single time we come back from a walk in the woods. 

But Lyme occurs all over the US these days and it is the most common TBD.  If you have the symptoms and have been anywhere near an area likely to have tick infestations, tell your  MD that immediately and insist on the test.   You don't always see the classic bulls-eye rash.

However, the Lyme test isn't terribly accurate and you can get false negatives.  The newest test is supposed to be better.  Around here drs are quite likely to give a prophylactic course of antibiotics presented with those symptoms.  MMV on that.  But don't immediately think of Lyme and insist on the test and antibiotics if you have been nowhere near a tick and flu is more likely.

[FecundFundieFundus]

This is such a bad year for ticks. Triple E too! 

[AuntCloud]

22 hours ago, FecundFundieFundus said:

@missy1228  Me too! Except I do worry because while Mr. Fecund is genuinely the kindest, most loving and gentle human I know, he's also a burly man with lots of facial hair and a resting "I'm mean and mad" face. 

UncleCloud is of the shaved head, MMA-fighter facial expressions look and can be terrifying when he wants to. Hes involved in several martial arts and when he fights he means business. I’m not supposed to tell anyone hes a giant softie when it comes to snuggling kittens and puppies. He was the one of us who was able to care for our under 2 lb preemies including changing diapers to babies who looked like they could break if you looked at them, and did every for his dad during his last terrible days. Hes the only person I want near me when I’m sick or feeling down. So let’s keep it just between us, heh? I wish I could share a picture of him looking very fine in a black leather jacket and a bit of a gruffly stubble, snoogling a kitten at Petland. 

[Petronella]

On 8/28/2019 at 11:36 AM, moreorlessnu said:

Some of the symptoms, yes, but others, such as the slight change in her complexion color in one of the videos on the road should have indicated to her something was off. Granted, she was traveling and may have thought she'd address it once they arrived home, and her cancer may have been too far advanced at at that point. I also wonder if her self-treating with herbs added to the confusion when she did consult her doctors.

I'm absolutely baffled by your assertion that telling her doctor about a "the slight change in her complexion color" would have gotten her cancer diagnosed sooner. That wouldn't even get a doctor *appointment* in most practices.

[moreorlessnu]

if I called my doctor and told them my skin had a yellowish hue to it, I would get an appointment within the next 48 hours. I could get an appointment with a nurse practitioner that day, or an appointment with my doctor within 1 or 2 business days.

YMMV.

[16strong]

1 hour ago, moreorlessnu said:

if I called my doctor and told them my skin had a yellowish hue to it, I would get an appointment within the next 48 hours. I could get an appointment with a nurse practitioner that day, or an appointment with my doctor within 1 or 2 business days.

YMMV.

Sure, but by the time Andrea's skin had turned yellow, there was nothing that could be done.

[Giraffe]

10 minutes ago, 16strong said:

Sure, but by the time Andrea's skin had turned yellow, there was nothing that could be done.

Exactly. Regardless of anything she’d have done, woowoo medicine or legitimate medical care, her dying had zero to do with something she did or did not do. This was an aggressive cancer that - as little as I understand about it - very few people survive, even if they get the best care available. It’s simply not something that would come up in routine tests. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Giraffe
Tweaking my tenses.

[under siege]

At approx 47minute mark of the latest vlog, Tom gives an update on what the liver biopsy / pathology results revealed. Andrea had aggressive breast cancer. It was completely different from what everyone (medical team, family etc) had originally thought. Tom discusses the possibility of Andrea's mother may possibly have had the same as she had cancer between the lungs, not just in them. Tom goes on to say that the specialist advises that the girls get tested to see if they carry the same genes. I hope that does happen. Not to scare them but so they know it's something to be aware of, and proactive, about in their futures.

Also, reading and writing are not as important as being a godly person (according to Tom early in the vlog) so it looks like as long as the children have the basics, that's all that really matters as far as education goes. I truly hope that the girls are encouraged to be more than wives and mothers if they desire to have a career or follow a dream.

Edited September 5, 2019 by under siege

[FecundFundieFundus]

It can be very useful to know, but it can also be a source of stress. Some people choose not to get tested for the gene mutation and just make sure they're vigilant with regular screenings. The kids should choose for themselves if they want to be tested. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I just feel absolutely devastated for these kids and vaguely worried/scared for them too. Horrible.

[FreeFundiesKids]

look like that the 2nd eldest is forced take care of 3 youngest girls. I feel so bad for him. 

[JenniferJuniper]

25 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I just feel absolutely devastated for these kids and vaguely worried/scared for them too. Horrible.

Mom was so involved with them.  Their world has been turned upside down.  

Tom will probably find a fundie wife sooner rather than later.  Sometimes that can be good.  Sometimes it can be very bad. 

[sdjp123]

The new blog basically confirms my suspicions that the older kids will be taking on even more responsibility for the raising of their younger siblings and the household.  Tom only talks about his family members helping with teaching the younger kids to read which in their curriculum may only mean kindergarten and the first part of first grade. It seems like he is expecting the older children (and in turn the younger children as they grow) to basically babysit the younger children, maintain the household, and then also teach themselves while he does his job. I find this disgusting.  For all his talk about how family is so important, it seems really one-sided with his children being the ones who are having to step up the most, and it's not like they weren't already responsible for more than most children their age.

I also love watching Tom dictate chores to all of the kids, while he videos them. Perhaps you should do some work as well, Tom?

Edited September 5, 2019 by sdjp123

[moreorlessnu]

Eden looked so sad when she received the locket with a picture of her mother in it.

[mollysmom]

Asher (is that the boy with dark hair?) looks devastated. He was always fun & silly in the videos and he just looks so sad (understandably) My heart hurts so bad for those kids. They were with Andrea 24/7 for the most part & he seemed especially close to her. Plus teenage years are hard enough as it is but now to have to navigate it without your mom? I feel so bad for them. 

[Caroline]

I just finished my first week of the school year where I've taught for 37 years (!!!).  I love my school and school community.  Most of my students this year are 9th and 10th graders.  They are great kids, and I couldn't help but compare poor Asher to them when I started watching Tom's latest video.  I don't know if I'll be able to watch the whole thing because part of me is a little angry that these kids have been deprived of lives of their own outside of their home.  The teenagers I know have full and increasingly independent lives (sports with teams, after school jobs, driver ed., a chance to hang out with different people (adults and other kids) in order to understand how others see the world, and many other things I could list. I think everyone deserves a chance at 'normal' societal things no matter their age.  It doesn't mean they have to give up their faith in God if that's what they choose.  Knowing their mother is gone (and she seemed like the fun one) makes me sadder than ever that those kids don't even have the choice of going to school or staying home.  Depriving kids of basic choices is wrong.  I'm not a homeschool hater because I know many secular homeschoolers who've done it right.  It's the fearful religious set who bother me.  Kids are people and deserve choices and to be taught the skills for learning how to make good choices as teenagers and young adults in a world that exists outside the religious bubble no matter what these people choose to think.   Sorry so long-winded. I really care about kids whether I know them or not.

[16strong]

I'm worried that Tom and Andrea were so anti-intervention that none of the kids will recieve any grief counselling. Asher in particular looks to be in a very bad way and it worries greatly me that some of the kids might feel like they don't have a neutral, knowledgeable, safe and understanding person to talk to.