Andrea Mills of YouTube infamy Had Cancer and Died

[Lisamc7]

11 hours ago, formergothardite said:

One of the Bringing Home Rebecca sisters married a man who had a bunch of kids and his wife died. But a couple years had passed between the wife dying and him remarrying. 

I won't be surprised if Tom eventually remarries but I don't think it will any time soon. I don't think he will be a Dale Sabin. 

The Freckled Fox married quickly. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Lisamc7 said:

The Freckled Fox married quickly. 

Ugh. My least favorite blogger of all time.

[potato]

4 hours ago, Jana814 said:

Can someone tell me the age range of the kids also are the 4 oldest kids all boys?  

The oldest kid, Thomas, turned 17 at the beginning of this year (I thought he was 18, but I guess not).  The youngest, Hannah, was born in May of last year.  The four oldest kids are all boys (Thomas, Asher, Judah, Justus) and the oldest daughter, Eden, turned 9 in March. 

 

12 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Although the oldest son has a job working in a grocery store, so the burden will probably fall mostly on Asher.  That poor kid has what I can only call resting miserable face already.  He seems a really sweet boy.

I've always felt for Asher.  He's always seems very introverted and camera-shy, but that didn't stop Andrea.  I'm not sure if he's Hannah's assigned buddy, but he's been very protective and caring towards her.

[Palimpsest]

On 8/22/2019 at 12:06 AM, apandaaries said:

On one video, Tom mentioned how disconnected our culture is from death, and how because of this, people wind up needing therapy after a loss. I really hope he’s not thinking that because the children were there at the end and after (while he filmed), they won’t require therapy. But I am suspicious.

As with the Duggars, I wonder about how such large brood truly feels about all the videotaping and publicizing of their lives. That they ALL enjoy it all the time (especially just after their mother passed) seems highly unlikely. I know we all grieve differently, and these people absolutely made choices for that I never would (no one will see me start a YouTube channel anytime soon!).  Their “normal” is not at all like mine.

But I still really hope he puts the camera down for awhile and concentrates on the kids. 

This.  But it also opens the door to the discussion of whether filming your children and putting the videos on youtube (or TV) should be any child's "normal."  And whether Tom should satisfy the curiosity of Andrea's fans by continuing to film.  If he is doing it for himself, that is one thing.  Invading the children's privacy is quite another.

11 hours ago, potato said:

I've always felt for Asher.  He's always seems very introverted and camera-shy, but that didn't stop Andrea.  I'm not sure if he's Hannah's assigned buddy, but he's been very protective and caring towards her.

And this.  Tom and Eden seemed very uncomfortable at times too.  It is most noticeable with Asher because he flashes a fake smile as soon as he sees the camera is on him.  The other two older boys (Judah and Justus) seemed more extroverted, but it could also be their ages.  Judah even has his own youtube channel.  But even the tiny ones seemed too aware of the camera.  And that is a big negative in my book.

To do Andrea justice, the majority of her long vlogs (at least the ones I watched) were of her doing talking heads and explaining how she filled every nook and cranny of the house.  But there were still too much filming of the children, IMO. 

19 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

A lot has been said about Tom's desire to keep filming.  I've been thinking about this topic, and the more I ponder on it the more I think it may not be so bad.  The family has been used to the filming and seemed to enjoy it and Tom seems to be using the outreach as a way for him to cope.  Tom actually could provide an interesting and useful perspective as 1.) a single dad of many, 2.) a widower raising young kids.  He could monetize the content and help pay for any extra help the family may need.  

Oh, hell no.  He should just phone up TLC and exploit his children's loss and grief properly!  What would TLC call it:  "The Mills on the Loss",  "Nine is Enough" or "Nine Children and Grieving On"?  Or perhaps he could monetize Judah's little channel and call it "Life Without Mother."

Yes, that was sarcastic but I think this is a really terrible idea.  Perhaps I should dig up Paul Petersen's "Children Are Not Meercats" testimony again.  Children are aware of cameras.  Cameras alter their behaviors.  Being a public persona, even on youtube, is not good for children.  And there are many safety issues around making your family life public.  I think he has already raised one huge safety issue by saying that he is going to "try" to work at home two days a week.  So I hope he has adults lined up already to watch the children on the other days.

Again, if Tom wants to use youtube as a means of coping himself then he should go ahead.  It is up to him whether he monetizes the channels. 

However, he should keep the children out of the public eye, especially now.  Unfortunately, after the initial furor has faded away I doubt whether Tom could hold an audience in the way Andrea did.  Have you ever tried to watch the Tom Mills channel?  He's a bore. He'll have to haul in the children sooner rather than later if he wants to make money.  And that would be exploitation.  IMO.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Koala]

I thought the pillows for the kids was a wonderful idea and use of Andrea's clothes.  I would probably even see about getting as many made as possible, so that if any ever get lost or messed up, there would be a replacement.  He might also consider that Eden might enjoy having some of Andrea's things like make-up, shampoo, perfume and hair accessories.  It might make her feel close to her mom to have it.  It would definitely be worth asking.

I could see the homeschooling thing becoming a huge issue.  He'll either have to put them in school, or decide that education isn't that important and let the chips fall where they may.  There's no way for the older kids to do it well, and there's no way for him to work a full time job and do it well.

The only other thing that stood out was the Bible audio.  I wonder whose idea that was?  I noticed that you can hear it in the background of some of her videos, and it's very distracting.  She didn't seem to be disturbed by it, or even aware that it was playing.  That would straight up drive me nuts.  

Finally, speaking of fundie remarriages following the death of a spouse-  I don't think Daniel & Brittney Brooker turned out very well.  I've read some of her stuff, and it's a combo of obvious favoritism of her own children, and deep mourning for her first husband.  Daniel seems happy enough, but his children got a bad deal as far as I can see.  I feel awful for them, because they WILL feel  Brittney's frustration, and constant wishing things could just go back to the way there were.

@Palimpsest Wish I could like your post a hundred times.  I could not agree more.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Koala

[Palimpsest]

22 minutes ago, Koala said:

Finally, speaking of fundie remarriages following the death of a spouse-  I don't think Daniel & Brittney Brooker turned out very well.  I've read some of her stuff, and it's a combo of obvious favoritism of her own children, and deep mourning for her first husband.  Daniel seems happy enough, but his children got a bad deal as far as I can see.  I feel awful for them, because they WILL feel  Brittney's frustration, and constant wishing things could just go back to the way there were.

That is really sad.  I'll have to go and look at Brittney's blog.  Those poor kids.

24 minutes ago, Koala said:

I could see the homeschooling thing becoming a huge issue.  He'll either have to put them in school, or decide that education isn't that important and let the chips fall where they may.  There's no way for the older kids to do it well, and there's no way for him to work a full time job and do it well.

Homeschooling never seemed to be a high priority for the Millses.  Also the concept of the children going on to college or any sort of further education was rather denigrated.  According to Andrea, the boys were all going to be gardeners, or carpenters, or work with Daddy, and the girls were all going to be wives and mothers. 

Thomas has now graduated and is working in a grocery store.  A perfectly good job if he wants to work his way up to management, and perhaps he never liked academics or wanted to go to college.

The Millses use the ACE curriculum.  We've discussed it in this thread and elsewhere.  It is designed for children to work independently.  It is also used in many Christian schools. 

 I think of ACE as the lazy homeschooler's choice because the parent has to do nothing about preparation.  All they have to do is plonk the child in front of the PACE workbooks, make sure they complete them, and grade the results.  I don't think it even has an online component.  That is why Tom thinks the younger children need help in learning how to read and then they can homeschool themselves.  

Posters here who were taught with the ACE curriculum think it is really bad.  It is very Fundie Christian, very racist, and useless at teaching critical thinking.  I think @nelliebelle1197 and @formergothardite were both exposed to it, but many of our other Former Fundies have also talked about it.  Negatively.

Jonny Scaramanga is a British survivor of the ACE curriculum.  His PhD dissertation was based on critiquing ACE, and it is a devastating critique.   Jonny blogs here: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/ but you can find many of his published articles with a quick google.

Probably the best thing for the Mills children would be for them to carry on homeschooling for the moment.  It is the least disruptive option.  That is with Grandma and Andrea's sisters helping out with child care of the littlest ones, and committing to supervising all the children when Tom is out.  Heaven forfend Tom thinks Thomas or Asher (who is only 15) should be left in charge of 7 little siblings all by themselves.

But I hope Tom does let all the children go to the Christian school in town (it probably also uses ACE) or even public school in time.

[fundiefollower]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Thomas has now graduated and is working in a grocery store.  A perfectly good job if he wants to work his way up to management, and perhaps he never liked academics or wanted to go to college

But I hope Tom does let all the children go to the Christian school in town (it probably also uses ACE) or even public school in time.

Thomas has actually not graduated.  He was set to start 12th grade this fall (they always start late - the first Thursday after the start of fall).  He works part time at the store around his schooling. She said sometimes he does his school in the afternoon/evening if he works during the day.

I also hope the kids go to the Christian school in town. While ACE isn't a great curriculum, just going to a school would be a big change so using the same curriculum would at least give them some feeling of "ok, I got this." and continuity of their life before Andrea died. 

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Homeschooling never seemed to be a high priority for the Millses.

Sadly you are right. It really wasn't. I think that Andrea could give the impression of caring about education because she always bought all these organization stuff to organize their homeschool year. Which is why people who watched her videos could come away thinking they were good homeschoolers.  But if really watch closely, it is clear she was a shit homeschooling mom. She put more effort into organization of the school year than the actual teaching part. And since she herself was taught with ACE she had no clue how to actually teach children.

I do hope they get a better education as time goes by, but I am not holding out hope. I suspect the older kids will be in charge of making sure the younger ones at least attempt to get through some of their workbooks.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by formergothardite

[FecundFundieFundus]

It's really a shame Tom isn't putting some of the GFM money towards netbooks for the kids. Online schooling would ease up his "burden" (okay yeah it's an actual responsibility, but it's ridiculous how uninvolved he was with it previously and how crappy their chosen method was. And there's this handy thing called public school where there are professional teachers with curriculums and counselors on site and access to social support...) and would still count as homeschooling since that's such a sticking point for them. 

[potato]

It looks like they just livestreamed Andrea's burial, which I honestly can't say I'm surprised about.  Regardless, I felt uncomfortable seeing it on my YouTube homepage and I don't think I can bring myself to watch it.

[formergothardite]

I looked at it but didn't watch. I am very uncomfortable that they made sure to point the camera directly at the children. Since this is on Andrea's page I'm assuming Tom was okay with that. Those poor kids couldn't even be at their mother's funeral without a camera shoved in their faces. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Sadly you are right. It really wasn't. I think that Andrea could give the impression of caring about education because she always bought all these organization stuff to organize their homeschool year. Which is why people who watched her videos could come away thinking they were good homeschoolers.  But if really watch closely, it is clear she was a shit homeschooling mom. She put more effort into organization of the school year than the actual teaching part. And since she herself was taught with ACE she had no clue how to actually teach children.

I do hope they get a better education as time goes by, but I am not holding out hope. I suspect the older kids will be in charge of making sure the younger ones at least attempt to get through some of their workbooks.

Andrea at least used the library.  Will Tom do that - and is it even feasible to do that in their present situation.   Although Tom's mom and Andrea's sisters are gallantly stepping up - they also have their own lives and families to care for.  It is a big commitment.

I can see parts of the ACE curriculum working for not-lazy homeschooling parents for some basic things.  And by that I mean using other curricula (especially science) and a lot of reading to supplement it.  Also by looking at the PACE work books in advance and encouraging children to think critically about them and research beyond the ideas in there. 

The ACE defense of Apartheid in South Africa, inexplicably right in the middle of a discussion of the American Civil War, still makes me gag.  It was revised (a bit) circa 1998, but ACE still thinks that Apartheid was "good" for economical reasons.  Go figure.  And puke.

Even if Tom also steps up (at least the dude can cook) I still think most of the childcare and homeschooling will be left to Thomas and Asher to deal with.   I don't understand how they can possibly finish their own educations, still work (in Thomas's case), and change diapers, do laundry, and love on the little ones all at the same time.

[ViolaSebastian]

I watched the funeral. It was fairly straight-forwarded and generic, but this is the public funeral and I imagine the private one was much more personal and emotional. Tom and the kids all wore blue. The officiant kept calling Tom "Tommy." Basic prayers for their peace and for the kids. Each of them put a red rose on her casket and then they lowered her down. The littlest ones seemed really fascinated by the casket going into the ground--it breaks my heart knowing they're curious because that may be their first encounter with death and a funeral, so that's something that's a novelty. It's pretty clear to me that they don't fully comprehend what's going on, and that's perfectly age appropriate. That's really about it. A nice, but brief, service.

ETA: I noticed that he hashtagged this with "#INFJ #INTJ" which seems....I'm going to say it, weird. I can't imagine what Myers-Briggs has to do with this.

Edited August 23, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Briefly]

20 hours ago, Lisamc7 said:

The Freckled Fox married quickly. 

Yes, but she's a woman and not a man.  That might have a lot to do with her remarrying so fast.  Also, and I may be mistaken, isn't she Mormon?  I think that the LDS church is fairly patriarchal, or they used to be.  But a widowed woman might not be viewed as favorably by the church as a widowed man. I may be wrong, though.

[louannems]

12 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I watched the funeral. It was fairly straight-forwarded and generic, but this is the public funeral and I imagine the private one was much more personal and emotional. Tom and the kids all wore blue. The officiant kept calling Tom "Tommy." Basic prayers for their peace and for the kids. Each of them put a red rose on her casket and then they lowered her down. The littlest ones seemed really fascinated by the casket going into the ground--it breaks my heart knowing they're curious because that may be their first encounter with death and a funeral, so that's something that's a novelty. That's really about it. A nice, but brief, service.

I watched it, too.  I didn't see Grandma Kitty anywhere.

[moreorlessnu]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

 The officiant kept calling Tom "Tommy."

ETA: I noticed that he hashtagged this with "#INFJ #INTJ" which seems....I'm going to say it, weird. I can't imagine what Myers-Briggs has to do with this.

Yes, the father goes by the name "Tommy" (by some) and the oldest son goes by the name "Thomas".

Andrea tagged many (all?) of the videos with their Myers-Briggs tags. On her website, I believe she also put tags for most of the children. 

I suspect Tom will get married in around 2 years. It wouldn't surprise me if he married someone young enough to have a few more kids with him.

[Queen Of Hearts]

It was a nice service and I didn't have an issue with it being live streamed, though I wish they hadn't had the camera pointed at the family.  It sounds like they buried the baby with Andrea, which is nice... and in my opinion a better option than burying the baby at hone as Tom was originally thinking about.

[Dandruff]

Wonder if the baby's name will be on the stone.

[Queen Of Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Wonder if the baby's name will be on the stone.

Wouldn't surprise me.  The minister referred to him by name and mentioned that they believe life begins at conception.  

[nelliebelle1197]

7 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Sadly you are right. It really wasn't. I think that Andrea could give the impression of caring about education because she always bought all these organization stuff to organize their homeschool year. Which is why people who watched her videos could come away thinking they were good homeschoolers.  But if really watch closely, it is clear she was a shit homeschooling mom. She put more effort into organization of the school year than the actual teaching part. And since she herself was taught with ACE she had no clue how to actually teach children.

I do hope they get a better education as time goes by, but I am not holding out hope. I suspect the older kids will be in charge of making sure the younger ones at least attempt to get through some of their workbooks.

 

 

Oh wow. Second generation with that lousy curriculum!

[moreorlessnu]

7 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

It was a nice service and I didn't have an issue with it being live streamed, though I wish they hadn't had the camera pointed at the family.  It sounds like they buried the baby with Andrea, which is nice... and in my opinion a better option than burying the baby at hone as Tom was originally thinking about.

I wonder if regulations prevented them from burying Cyrus on their property.  A quick google reveals it is permissible in rural areas. ( I now have that in my search history!) Maybe you need a certain amount of land? Maybe it was a cost factor?

I could see the family moving if Tom were to remarry someone who also has kids. In that case, they would regret burying Cyrus on the family property.

It was absolutely heartbreaking when Tom told the kids to say goodbye to their Mom as the casket was being lowered.

May they never again have as hellish of a week as this has been for them.

[moreorlessnu]

Earlier in this thread there was a discussion as to whether Sarah Maxwell would be a potential partner for Tom. What about Jana Duggar?

Tom will be 43 in October so there would be a little bit of an age difference. Jana is experience with running a household with many kids. She is kind, sweet and loving to small kids.

[ViolaSebastian]

42 minutes ago, moreorlessnu said:

Earlier in this thread there was a discussion as to whether Sarah Maxwell would be a potential partner for Tom. What about Jana Duggar?

Tom will be 43 in October so there would be a little bit of an age difference. Jana is experience with running a household with many kids. She is kind, sweet and loving to small kids.

I say this with all due respect to Tom, but I do not see Jim-Bob agreeing to that in the least.

Edited August 24, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[AliceInFundyland]

2 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I say this with all due respect to Tom, but I do not see Jim-Bob agreeing to that in the least.

Or Jana.

[FecundFundieFundus]

13 hours ago, moreorlessnu said:

I wonder if regulations prevented them from burying Cyrus on their property.  A quick google reveals it is permissible in rural areas. ( I now have that in my search history!) Maybe you need a certain amount of land? Maybe it was a cost factor?

At 13 weeks it's unlikely that Cyrus qualifies as human remains by law. We got a "freebie" plot burying a late term miscarried baby in a relative's one person plot because he was a week or so younger than the deadline. Law is weird and very specific!