Lori Alexander 70: Blaspheming the Word of God

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

 

[hollyfeller]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-mysteries-love/201908/12-ways-spot-female-misogynist

Suzanne Venker jokingly shared this link on FB because she was mentioned in it, but the article is spot on for her and Lori.  Both women have bitter dudes flocking to their pages and trashing the female species with no real push-back.  How is that NOT female misogyny??

[Sarah92]

I'm not a fucking car Gary. 

[onemama]

All the talk about whether women should be strong or not, and that thread of comments talking about how a good wife basically lives for her husband reminded me of this poem written in 2008 by a member of the Bayly family:

This is the introduction:

Written by, to, and for a woman who thinks far too much of herself to surrender her life for her husband; but ultimately, to God.

Quote

 

I Think You Want a Wife

I think you want a wife, not a husband.
Someone to join with
you, to make
you into your true self, to follow
you wherever
your heart leads.

A man to validate
your feelings, make
you sure of who
you are.

You realize your full potential.

I think you want a wife, not a husband.
 

One to support
your work, to stand by
your side,
affirming, affirming, affirming, affirming, affirming, affirming
affirming, affirming, adoring, affirming, affirming, affirming

to make you feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel
Worthy of you

A wife - who worships
you.
sleeps
dreams
wakes
lives
for you.

Who demands no loss of self
no submission
no obedience.

Who is your god?

You
are salvation
a deity
Isis herself

---------------------------------------

Will you be a wife?

Lay
you in the casket

To be one man's
Help
Mate

To follow
respect
submit
obey

Will you stand behind a man?
Purge
you of dignity
you of self-determination

Will you be weak
so He will be strong?

Will you be a wife?
to
one
man

Rid
you of ambition

He
is you now

u
disappear

-Mrs. Joseph Tate Bayly VI

 

This caused a stir way back when it was first written. I've never been able to forget it.  

[louisa05]

So Lori says that women have to never work, even after the kids leave home, so they are available to help with grandchildren and parents. But, of course, remember to be passive, submissive and weak because women should never be strong. 

Clueless bitch. I went through a parent's terminal illness. I have a disabled parent still living. Caregiving has been my life for nearly seven years. And it is the hardest damn thing I've ever dealt with. You have to be damn strong to do it.  And my experience is a cake walk compared to a friend of mine who is dealing with a father with dementia and a mother who won't make decisions, has no knowledge of her own finances, and, frankly, has led a passive and submissive life that would make Lori proud. Lucky for her, her daughter is a strong woman and can handle taking care of them. 

 

[ColeJo]

I don't bash people with tattoos. I don't bash people who don't like tattoos. Lori's reasoning for not liking them is that they look ugly as they fade. I didn't get a tattoo until last year and I spent a lot of time figuring out what I wanted. I chose to have the word "tetelestai" tattooed on my forearm. It means "It is finished." The reason I chose that because I needed the reminder that there is nothing I can add to what Jesus did on the cross. Will it fade? Sure, but the message is eternal.

Being debt-free is possible, but I don't think it should be a deal-breaker. Even Dave Ramsey, the man behind "Debt is dumb. Cash is king," doesn't see it as a deal-breaker. He does say that both individuals need to be on the same page about money. He says as long as a person isn't looking for someone with money to pay their bills. If the person is constantly making bad money decisions and is not willing to change, it would not be wise to marry that person.

Lori is on Twitter saying that Victoria's Secret in pedaling soft porn because of lingerie models. She sees them as sex objects. Does she look at swimsuit models the same way? It is really sad. In Sunday School, I remember a girl wearing a dress that was a bit short and she was crossing her legs. I was thinking, "She needs to wear a longer dress." Then I stopped and thought, "What the hell am I doing?" It revealed that I can be very judgmental. Being a busybody does not advance the Kingdom.

Edited August 16, 2019 by ColeJo

[Briefly]

I think I got to page 3 in the last thread.  I'll try to get a little further along in this one, before I get too disgusted with her.

@ColeJo, I think your tattoo sounds very nice.  I talk about getting one every few years but then I remember that I may well be allergic to the ink so I decide against it.  Then I think about it again.  Lately, I've been thinking about it again.

Lori is the most envious, jealous, fill-in-the-blank woman.  No, she is not a fan of Victoria's Secret.  Because she knows that she could NEVER look like one of the models.  And she hates that.  It eats at her and eventually she has to blame the women because of course she is perfect!!

[FullOfGravy]

1 hour ago, ColeJo said:

In Sunday School, I remember a girl wearing a dress that was a bit short and she was crossing her legs. I was thinking, "She needs to wear a longer dress." Then I stopped and thought, "What the hell am I doing?" It revealed that I can be very judgmental. Being a busybody does not advance the Kingdom.

I forget where I first read it, but the idea is something like, "Your first thought is society talking.  Your second thought is you."  We live in a world that's constantly policing women's clothing and bodies.  One woman's skirt is too short; another is showing too much cleavage; a third doesn't have the body for a dress that form-fitting; a fourth just looks like a frump who's given up - we're so surrounded and bombarded with these ideas that it's difficult not to have those automatic thoughts.  With your second thought, though, you can make a choice: do you want to be someone who criticizes women's clothes, or do you want to be someone kinder?

I find myself having those same double-thoughts too.  "Wow, that outfit is way too revealing for going to class.  Except no, FullOfGravy, it isn't, because she can wear whatever she damn well wants to wear to class and it's none of anyone else's business."

When Lori and her fans and followers have that automatic, ingrained reaction to a woman's (or, even more disgustingly, a young girl's) body or clothes, they don't stop and turn it around; they just grab it and charge headlong and proudly into slut-shaming, judgmental misogyny.  The difference between them and you at that moment in Sunday School is that you can be very judgmental - as we all can - but you made a conscious decision not to be.

[wallysmommy]

I think Ken has been looking at VS catalogs.  I don't shop at VS because they're too expensive for the way I hack around my bras, and my butt is too big for their panties.  

I did like that Loribo was called out yesterday on Twitter for saying "I could care less."  I have noticed none of the village idiots from her FB page are on Twitter.  She gets very little support but yet she Tweets 3-4 times a day.  Part of her persecution complex, I guess.

[Hane]

I am working hard to think compliments at every woman I see. They can’t read my mind, but I’m hoping the positive vibes come through. (It isn’t always possible or practical to speak these compliments out loud.)

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I was prowling an antique store this afternoon when I became aware of what was on the radio.  It was a man sounding very reasonable, rattling on about no one gets married these days. 

The reason that no one gets married these days is marijuana -- because it's so much stronger than it used to be (say huh??).  Anyway he then goes off on the protests by young people on college campuses and that it's always the women and girls that are screaming, and yelling. That the women always out number the men.  And the reason they are screaming is that women need men, and the men just aren't there. He didn't say where the men were.  I guess men aren't there because the women are screaming?

The radio show then went to commercial  -- advertising buy gold to save you 401K, and Prager hawking a 23&Me version that will test for major disease proclivities (mention "Prager for a discount), and then back where the announcer said you're listening to "The Answer" with Dennis Prager. I've never heard him although I know Lori adores him and his show. Based on the little bit I heard the man is a nutcase, certifiable BSC.

I'll admit I'm petty enough that I walked out with buying anything, even though I found a mid-century sugar/creamer set I wanted.  I just couldn't give my money to someone who listens to that nonsense and by extension support that nonsense with my money 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[Petronella]

9 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

I'm not a fucking car Gary. 

I laughed at the contrast to Lori in the last comment ("men want a tatted up sex demon"), but really I hate ANYTHING that claims to explain what "men" (or "women" or whatever group) want. There are many, many individual men, and they have their own individual wants. I hate Cosmo as much as I hate fundies, both groups claiming they know what all men want and that women should conform themselves to what they claim that is. Just saying this out loud to clarify for myself that, while Ryan Archer's comment is anti-Lori, and probably just a casual joke to be honest, it represents a tendency that is just exhausting and pervasive in our society, defining "what (all) men (supposedly) want" as a goal for woman.

And, besides different men wanting different things, relationships are bigger than just finding someone who ticks your boxes, whatever those individual boxes are. There's a kind of wonderful alchemy in a good relationship that is bigger than "gives me what I had predecided I want." When you realize you want this person, it can change what you thought you wanted to whatever it is that they bring. Obviously, some wants are dealbreakers--wanting someone who is kind and respects me, for example. But being open to surprises is a good thing.

In other news, I bought expensive butter this week. Well, expensive for me! So I thought of Lori, both because it was more than I usually spend on butter, but also because it's a specific brand of butter that she apparently hates (Kerrygold). So I thought of Lori twice!

[Petronella]

10 hours ago, onemama said:

All the talk about whether women should be strong or not, and that thread of comments talking about how a good wife basically lives for her husband reminded me of this poem written in 2008 by a member of the Bayly family:

This is the introduction:

Written by, to, and for a woman who thinks far too much of herself to surrender her life for her husband; but ultimately, to God.

This caused a stir way back when it was first written. I've never been able to forget it.  

Can you share a bit more about this? The responses to it are majority "WTF" but it reads to me as if it's pointing out the horror of negating oneself in a fundie marriage. And yet--the author signed it in a fundie way. Irony? Or is it a fundie poem? 

It was trashed on a Titus-2 themed blog, so I assume it is indeed anti-fundie. But Datalounge writes of it at face value, saying "Nothing turns hyper-patriarchal pastor Tim Bayly on more than female masochism. And his "dear" daughter-in-law, Mrs. Joseph Tate Bayly VI, sure serves up a heapin' helpin' of it in a poem about a woman's place in "biblical marriage" that Tim posted on the Bayly Blog. Some nauseating highlights: "Purge you of dignity... Rid you of ambition... He is you now/ u disappear." Alllllllll-RIGHTY, then!"

So, uh, help me, please! It is ironically taking an extremist position to show the ridiculousness of it, or genuinely extremist? Is the author a fundie or anti-fundie?

[onemama]

3 hours ago, Petronella said:

I hate ANYTHING that claims to explain what "men" (or "women" or whatever group) want. There are many, many individual men, and they have their own individual wants. I hate Cosmo as much as I hate fundies, both groups claiming they know what all men want and that women should conform themselves to what they claim that is

Yes! I feel the same. I like my husband for the person he is. He looks good to me and that's all that matters. 

 

3 hours ago, Petronella said:

Can you share a bit more about this? The responses to it are majority "WTF" but it reads to me as if it's pointing out the horror of negating oneself in a fundie marriage. And yet--the author signed it in a fundie way. Irony? Or is it a fundie poem? 

It was confusing and I remember it being discussed at a blog called whitewashed feminist. It may have been discussed at True Womanhood.  

I think it's meant to be taken at face value. The woman who wrote it is Tim Bayly's daughter-in-law, and Tim Bayly is a huge proponent of patriarchal marriage. The whole blog seems to be about "defending God's created order".  If I recall correctly, they tried to backpedal a bit, saying that no, a wife is not supposed to worship her husband!  But I can't recall anything being said against "lay you in a casket" or "rid you of ambition" or even "u disappear".  

I wish I could say that it's sarcasm but I'm afraid it's not. 

[Loveday]

8 hours ago, Petronella said:

In other news, I bought expensive butter this week. Well, expensive for me! So I thought of Lori, both because it was more than I usually spend on butter, but also because it's a specific brand of butter that she apparently hates (Kerrygold). So I thought of Lori twice!

Totally agree with you re the silly 'all men want the same thing' trope. But...what on earth does Lori have against Kerrygold butter? I'm a Land o'Lakes fan myself most of the time--it goes on sale a few times a year here and I stockpile it in the freezer--so I'm not in the know on other butters. But I've had Kerrygold once or twice and it's fine.

I'm sure Land o' Lakes is pure poison to Lori, but I don't care. I'll take 7 on-sale pounds of that for the price of one pound of her $14 butter any day. LOL (see what I did there?  )

Edited August 17, 2019 by Loveday

[Petronella]

14 minutes ago, Loveday said:

Totally agree with you re the silly 'all men want the same thing' trope. But...what on earth does Lori have against Kerrygold butter? I'm a Land o'Lakes fan myself most of the time--it goes on sale a few times a year here and I stockpile it in the freezer--so I'm not in the know on other butters. But I've had Kerrygold once or twice and it's fine.

I'm sure Land o' Lakes is pure poison to Lori, but I don't care. I'll take 7 on-sale pounds of that for the price of one pound of her $14 butter any day. LOL (see what I did there?  )

I think it's not organic enough or something. I can't find the original reference, but in a previous discussion here someone said "And Lori acts like KerryGold should be boycotted" but I don't know what exactly is being referred to. But it's not $14 butter, that's for sure!

[Loveday]

8 minutes ago, Petronella said:

I think it's not organic enough or something. I can't find the original reference, but in a previous discussion here someone said "And Lori acts like KerryGold should be boycotted" but I don't know what exactly is being referred to. But it's not $14 butter, that's for sure!

I think KerryGold goes for a couple dollars more than LOL does here, per pound. Not TOO big a difference, but enough that I don't buy it. We go through way more butter than we probably should at our house, so the price difference would add up pretty fast.

I wonder just how organic it has to be to suit Lori? And does she apply the same stringent requirements to her salad and Einkorn bread ingredients? And is that all she eats, ever? Because we never see her talking about any other foods unless she's pinging on Ken for wanting a burger or something. 

[Petronella]

7 minutes ago, Loveday said:

I think KerryGold goes for a couple dollars more than LOL does here, per pound. Not TOO big a difference, but enough that I don't buy it. We go through way more butter than we probably should at our house, so the price difference would add up pretty fast.

I wonder just how organic it has to be to suit Lori? And does she apply the same stringent requirements to her salad and Einkorn bread ingredients? And is that all she eats, ever? Because we never see her talking about any other foods unless she's pinging on Ken for wanting a burger or something. 

I admit that the "Lori doesn't like Kerrygold" thing could have been a game of telephone here on FJ. Mea culpa! I shouldn't have said something I didn't have a reference for.

For spreading on toast the Kerrygold was worth it. I wouldn't waste it in the pan to fry eggs.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Petronella

[Loveday]

9 minutes ago, Petronella said:

I admit that the "Lori doesn't like Kerrygold" thing could have been a game of telephone here on FJ. Mea culpa! I shouldn't have said something I didn't have a reference for.

For spreading on toast the Kerrygold was worth it. I wouldn't waste it in the pan to fry eggs.

No, no, that's okay! I'd bet Lori doesn't like Kerrygold, it's not nearly exclusive enough for her. LOL!  

[louisa05]

8 hours ago, Petronella said:

 

 relationships are bigger than just finding someone who ticks your boxes, whatever those individual boxes are. There's a kind of wonderful alchemy in a good relationship that is bigger than "gives me what I had predecided I want." When you realize you want this person, it can change what you thought you wanted to whatever it is that they bring. Obviously, some wants are dealbreakers--wanting someone who is kind and respects me, for example. But being open to surprises is a good thing.

 

Evangelicalism was really into trying to get teens and young adults to decide on the boxes. My colleague at Christian school, who was one of the sane ones there, taught senior "Bible class" which focused on marriage and relationships for one semester. They demanded that she have them make their definitive list of what they wanted in a partner. Very specific lists. How would they dress? What things would they like? She thought it was nonsense. She would push them to only include the big things--character qualities mostly none of the "he shouldn't wear white socks" stuff. She was constantly in trouble for it. 

A friend of mine made that list in her first year of college. It included things like a tenor singing voice, not wearing white socks, and more. All of it absurd. She also has the notion that all love is magical love at first sight so that you know  God is telling you "he's the one". We are closer to 50 than 40. She's never been on a second date because she's never had a  magical enough first one for her tastes and still hasn't figured out that life rarely works like that. 

This stuff is so damaging to people. And, for religious people, is probably a lot more responsible for lower marriage rates than weed or whatever other nonsense they want to blame it on. 

[wallysmommy]

I'm also a LOL person, but I really like Trader Joe's butter.  It's $3 something a pound, so I buy 2 pounds at a time when I shop there.  I think Lori was too lazy to ever learn how to cook.  Her mom cooked when she was at home, then she probably made excuses of why not to cook when she got married, then she got sick and needed a housekeeper who probably cooked.  If mom and dad lived close, then mom probably still did her cooking for her.  Is this anywhere in the archives of the Oracle of California?

[Petronella]

31 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Evangelicalism was really into trying to get teens and young adults to decide on the boxes. My colleague at Christian school, who was one of the sane ones there, taught senior "Bible class" which focused on marriage and relationships for one semester. They demanded that she have them make their definitive list of what they wanted in a partner. Very specific lists. How would they dress? What things would they like? She thought it was nonsense. She would push them to only include the big things--character qualities mostly none of the "he shouldn't wear white socks" stuff. She was constantly in trouble for it. 

A friend of mine made that list in her first year of college. It included things like a tenor singing voice, not wearing white socks, and more. All of it absurd. She also has the notion that all love is magical love at first sight so that you know  God is telling you "he's the one". We are closer to 50 than 40. She's never been on a second date because she's never had a  magical enough first one for her tastes and still hasn't figured out that life rarely works like that. 

This stuff is so damaging to people. And, for religious people, is probably a lot more responsible for lower marriage rates than weed or whatever other nonsense they want to blame it on. 

Your teaching stories always break my heart.

Also, I didn't know white socks were a thing to be concerned about. I mean, we all wear black socks, but I've never really thought about it. Wouldn't it depend on what color shoes and kind of outfit? I prefer black socks on my husband, I guess, but putting that on a list?? Good lord!

Edited August 17, 2019 by Petronella

[Lgirlrocks]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

I think KerryGold goes for a couple dollars more than LOL does here, per pound. Not TOO big a difference, but enough that I don't buy it. We go through way more butter than we probably should at our house, so the price difference would add up pretty fast.

I wonder just how organic it has to be to suit Lori? And does she apply the same stringent requirements to her salad and Einkorn bread ingredients? And is that all she eats, ever? Because we never see her talking about any other foods unless she's pinging on Ken for wanting a burger or something. 

Did t Ken say Loris chocolate chip cookies cost over $60 because she uses the “best” ingredients?

[Loveday]

11 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

Did t Ken say Loris chocolate chip cookies cost over $60 because she uses the “best” ingredients?

Yes! I remember that!   Good lord, I could get ALL my Christmas cookie baking done for less than $60, and I make at least half a dozen different kinds! Lori is just ridiculous. 

[Petronella]

14 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

Did t Ken say Loris chocolate chip cookies cost over $60 because she uses the “best” ingredients?

I *hope* that he means buying the ingredients as if you have a completely empty kitchen. So, bottle of vanilla, sack of flour, etc etc, and much of it would be left over to make more cookies with in the future. Right? Because $60 to make ONE batch of cookies would be surprising!