Have known the Botkins and the CKC groups for years, Ask me anything

[Giraffe]

Stupid question, but what’s the pronunciation of Beall’s first name? In my head I just call her Be All, but is it?

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Stupid question, but what’s the pronunciation of Beall’s first name? In my head I just call her Be All, but is it?

It's "Bell" though saying (or writing) "Be All" is irresistible. 

You can hear the great DPIART say it himself on this 2012 clip from one of his homeschool conference speeches  at the Florida Parent Educators Association (FPEA) annual meeting that year. He mentions her name at about 48 seconds in.

Dougie himself may be radioactive nowadays but it looks like his shite still makes bucks for the FPEA and perhaps others.

Edited August 2, 2019 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[ConfessionsOfABotkinite]

8 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

SO many more questions... Why are the Noors basically living on the Botkin compound? How did they end up moving there? Was there ever any talk about their creeper doctor dad?

Was there any substance to those rumors a few years ago that Geoff was sick?  

When the Botkins bought the land that they live on, the house was just convenient for the Noors I think. David Botkin and Nadia were married by that time, so they bought the “house” next door to Geoff and Victoria. I think Karen Noor wanted to be close to her daughter and David Noor was kinda “Interning” under Geoff. I’ve heard a little about their dad, but I didn’t really pay attention. 
 

Geoff was diagnosed with Trigeminal Neuralgia, which is a nerve disease in the head that caused considerable pain.  He often was not able to preach or he canceled conference appearances at times because of it. He’s had it pretty much the whole time we have known him. It would especially act up when sickness was going around and he got a head cold or something. 

[Columbia]

18 hours ago, ConfessionsOfABotkinite said:

Oh no, Audri does not believe all the rhetoric that her father-in-law believes... she believes a lot closer to what the her parents (Verniers) believe. I don’t know to what extent, but I’m thinking she married into the botkins because of the wonderful things they said... and then she realized that things were not as she hoped. About 1-2 years ago, an email  accidentally got sent out to some men in the church about how one member of the church was “hardly holding it together” and Ben was “not in a place to lead”. The email got leaked and I’ll try to find it and post it. 

This explains so much. Why there haven't been any more end of the year pictures and emails sent out. Why the "about" section on the Western Conservatory website was edited and all the family pictures were removed. Why the CDs on Audri and Ben's courtship were taken down. Why Audri's twitter feed is full of posts about church and spiritual abuse.

Do you think that Audri initiated the need to leave CKC, or Ben, or was it both coming to that conclusion? I can't imagine how hard it would be for Ben to leave such a large part of his family like that. Do you think his family will still associate with him and Audri if they do move away?

What do you know about the other daughters-in-law? Neither of them have any real online presence like Audri does. Do you think they knew what they were getting into?

Edited August 2, 2019 by Columbia
RIffle

[MamaJunebug]

5 minutes ago, Columbia said:

DO you think they knew what they were getting into?

Oh, yes, good question, if you feel you have an answer!

[ConfessionsOfABotkinite]

11 minutes ago, Columbia said:

This explains so much. Why there haven't been any more end of the year pictures and emails sent out. Why the "about" section on the Western Conservatory website was edited and all the family pictures were removed. Why the CDs on Audri and Ben's courtship were taken down. Why Audri's twitter feed is full of posts about church and spiritual abuse.

Do you think that Audri initiated the need to leave CKC, or Ben, or was it both coming to that conclusion? I can't imagine how hard it would be for Ben to leave such a large part of his family like that. Do you think his family will still associate with him and Audri if they do move away?

What do you know about the other daughters-in-law? Neither of them have any real online presence like Audri does. DO you think they knew what they were getting into?

Wow, I never saw Audri's twitter page! That does explain a lot. And it looks legit as well, because a bunch of people are following her that I know. 

I know they had some marriage issues, but I'm not sure what about. Since they left CKC shortly after those rumors started to fly, I can guess it was related to Audri wanting to leave and Ben being torn between his wife and his family. I have no evidence of that, so take it with a grain of salt . 

I think the rest of the Botkins will still talk to them if they do move, everyone will want to see the grandkids and everything. I don't know what the relationship between the rest of the Verniers and the Botkins, but they don't seem  together a lot. 

Most of the rest of the daughters-in-laws don't think really care, the Roach's (Heidi's family) go to Kevin Swansons church and the Noors live on the property. All the children are believe different things then Geoff (based on their social median what they do IRL), they just don't disagree with him openly.

It's so funny to hear someone in CKC express another opinion and then Geoff will go up to the pulpit to tear them down and "teach" the church the "right" way. CKC had a "question" time right after the sermon, and the first few years people would drone on and on and then Geoff or another elder would give a 10min extra sermon on what the person had just said. One day, we started church at 11 and didn't end until 2:30-3 because of the question time and then at one time, there was a "exhortation" time. We did that for a year or two before they started pre-screening people to give an exhortation because it was taking too long and people would give their opinions or just what "God spoke to me during the week".

[Marian the Librarian]

20 hours ago, ConfessionsOfABotkinite said:

No, I don't think they will. They work on T-Rex Arms stuff for Lucas and take care of all the grandkids that live in their "compound". I highly doubt they will get married and leave. I think they are late 20s - early 30s by now?  

 

34 this year (A-S) and 32 (E).

Have you ever heard the "girls" express anger/frustration/discontent about their lives of bounded choice?

[ConfessionsOfABotkinite]

1 minute ago, Marian the Librarian said:

34 this year (A-S) and 32 (E).

Have you ever heard the "girls" express anger/frustration/discontent about their lives of bounded choice?

They never have publicly said anything negative.. What they have said is how they love their family and how it's Gods will that they are not married or that the right guy has not come around yet. 

On a side note, I'm sorry I have not been able to get to your other questions! There's quite a bit to write down, and I want to do it right.

[Marian the Librarian]

1 hour ago, ConfessionsOfABotkinite said:

On a side note, I'm sorry I have not been able to get to your other questions! There's quite a bit to write down, and I want to do it right.

No worries, no hurries! ?

[Columbia]

This is so interesting. And I hope you find that leaked email, because now I'm especially curious. More questions, if you don't mind.

Did you see many families join CKC while you were there? How did they find the place? Were they locals, or families who had moved to that part of Tennessee for the purpose of joining the church?

What was the general church service like? Was there any kind of liturgy (repetition of prayers, confession, etc) or was it primarily preaching? I'm sure women weren't allowed to preach, but could they do anything (read the Bible out loud, pray out loud, lead singing?) How was communion distributed? Does CKC hold to the "family communion" approach where dad gets communion and hands it out to his family?

What seemed to be the general community feel towards the Botkins? It seems that they're not especially outgoing or interested in being part of the local culture. Is that correct?

[ConfessionsOfABotkinite]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:22 PM, Columbia said:

This is so interesting. And I hope you find that leaked email, because now I'm especially curious. More questions, if you don't mind.

Did you see many families join CKC while you were there? How did they find the place? Were they locals, or families who had moved to that part of Tennessee for the purpose of joining the church?

What was the general church service like? Was there any kind of liturgy (repetition of prayers, confession, etc) or was it primarily preaching? I'm sure women weren't allowed to preach, but could they do anything (read the Bible out loud, pray out loud, lead singing?) How was communion distributed? Does CKC hold to the "family communion" approach where dad gets communion and hands it out to his family?

What seemed to be the general community feel towards the Botkins? It seems that they're not especially outgoing or interested in being part of the local culture. Is that correct?

There was about 15-20 families that filtered in and out of CKC. Most of the "original" families left and the new families have stayed. There were a few that moved here, and then found out about the church but most moved here with the purpose of going to the church. 

The church service was normally about 2 hours long, and there was prayer, about 3 songs, communion (which the first few years was the husband or "head of household" and and now anyone can get it), preaching, q&a, song, exhortation, song, corporate prayer (prayer requests), doxology, guest introduction and finally announcements. It was a lot, especially for the kids that had to sit through it all ? The only women "leading" was playing the piano, everything else that happened was led by men.

The community of the county was hostile, they didn't like the Botkins being there or firing off guns all the time or anything. One lady showed the city council some alt-right preaching that Geoff did and they didn't let them use a piece of land that they were wanting to build a T-Rex Arms factory on. They never have been evangelistic or tried to open up CKC to outsiders. I know they have said that they would ask a gay couple to leave if they had ever come in the church.

 

[acheronbeach]

Do you know if it's true that Anna Sofia and Elizabeth turned down the noble suitors who attempted to court them?  

Did you ever see those ridiculous Jeanne D'Albret and (HAHA) virtuous maiden Anne Boleyn costumes that they made such a to-do about on their blog?  Weird question I know, but to me that was the pinnacle of Botkin pretentious nonsense.  

What do Ben & Audri do for work, now that there's this schism?  

[CyborgKin]

Ooh, as usual when I don't check in for a few days there's a new thread that's relevant to my interests.

I'm particularly curious about the sisters' books about relationships: do you know whether anyone who knows them really puts any stock in their writings, given their lack of much success/experience in such matters?  Also their website which very rarely gets updated: do they only get to work in it when allowed/ordered, have they run out of things to say, or is it just that it's low priority and they're too busy working as aunts?

I recently heard the start of their "It's not about staying at home" talk again and couldn't help but notice that for all they claim to believe woman are allowed to do, it looks like their only prospects are being aunts and eventually great-aunts, and sometimes helping with projects as directed by the men in the family.  They have occasionally written or spoken about how well they're using the time while they're single and how content they are, blah blah blah, but it seems a bit hollow (and they're rather fond of interjecting nervous/dismissive laughter into their talks) so I can't help but wonder how well they're fooling themselves, and whether they're capable of ever leaving their family, or of even wanting to.

 

Lucas has a Twitch channel?  Well that's fascinating...

He called it AimBotkin?  Wish I'd thought of that

edit: "How to Learn a Skill" according to Lucas

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/461285599?t=18m51s

to get better at Starcraft 2 (or anything, such as shooting, business, shooting, or shooting) you need to search youtube for experts demonstrating how to do it.

Steve Maxwell would have a fit at that advice (or at the specific example!)

Edited August 5, 2019 by CyborgKin
after watching some

[Marian the Librarian]

@ConfessionsOfABotkinite - Bumping this thread because a) I just posted about Esther Courter's engagement in the single fundies thread, and remembered your mentioning a theologically-related falling-out between Anthony Courter and Geoff Botkin; and b) I'm hoping we didn't scare you off with all our questions!

I'm wondering if any members of the Botkin clan would be invited to and/or attend a Courter wedding, despite their patriarchs' differences?