Botkin Alert. They are back on the conference circuit!

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

That is allowed by our rules.  To attend public events for research purposes but any disruption is at your own risk.  Use common sense!

 

Thank you, Sr. @Palimpsest  I meant the “on the lookout” humorously but there’s no way I would attend this unless I registered - and I won’t do that: I don’t want them having my info.  

Like Palimpsest, I’m glad I attended the Maxfest all those years ago (Tina was just in the way, so, what — 8 years?).

I got an insight into the Maxverse that was saddening, more than anything. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by MamaJunebug

[Hane]

On 8/2/2019 at 5:25 PM, kpmom said:

Manly men write manly letters?

Here's the first couple of sentences from one my very favorite of his manly letters:

"With thanksgiving to God for His mercy and love, I have stepped down from the office of president at Vision Forum Ministries and have discontinued my speaking responsibilities. 

There has been serious sin in my life..."

Translation: “Mistakes were made...” The classic non-apology of all self-proclaimed Great Men who get found out. Cf. John Rowland, former governor of Connecticut, who served two non-consecutive prison terms for corruption and whose Wikipedia page calls him “an American politician, author, and convicted felon.”

Edited August 4, 2019 by Hane

[Giraffe]

The talk about going to conferences has me wondering: what percentage go because they’re serious about what’s being taught? Can’t be 100%, right? RIGHT?? 

Sadly, I’m sure it’s probably near 100%, even if people attending eventually make their way out of fundydom. 

[samurai_sarah]

6 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

The talk about going to conferences has me wondering: what percentage go because they’re serious about what’s being taught? Can’t be 100%, right? RIGHT?? 

Sadly, I’m sure it’s probably near 100%, even if people attending eventually make their way out of fundydom. 

We wish, but alas...

[Marian the Librarian]

I think the upper limit of "only" 180 attendees is - like all things Botkin - vastly overinflated. I'd be very surprised if they get even 50 people to sign up for this event. It sounds like the same old preaching-to-the-choir schtick, with just a dollop of carefully-monitored matchmaking thrown in.

 

 

[DomWackTroll]

On 8/1/2019 at 5:01 PM, thoughtful said:

Sorry to derail in the direction of VF, rather than Botkins. But I don't think I'd ever really looked through a VF catalog before, although I'd seen some individual pictures. It's . . .  something else.

Interesting that the models for the “Mother and Daughter Aprons” on page 76 were Liberty and… Lourdes. And then, again, on page 80, we have Lourdes surrounded by the adoring Phillips girls above the caption “The Generational Journey of Daughterhood”—right before the next page, where Doug himself is the model father. He was hiding his sick "sister wives" fantasy in plain sight, and fetishizing his own children.

Edit: Just to be clear, I do not mean that Doug was sexually objectifying his children, but that he was using them as props in his fantasies of making Lourdes his second wife. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by DomWackTroll

[smittykins]

Anyone catch the “Heart of Anger” book on page 27(under the heading “Heart Surgery for Discontent Children”)?  It’s practical, biblical, and “completely psychology-free”! 

[DomWackTroll]

18 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Anyone catch the “Heart of Anger” book on page 27(under the heading “Heart Surgery for Discontent Children”)?  It’s practical, biblical, and “completely psychology-free”! 

If anyone ever needed time-- lots of time-- on a shrink's couch, it's Doug Phillips. Though I must say I'd pity the poor psychiatrist who had to listen Doug's litany of woe, delusions of grandeur, and numerous daddy/mommy issues. 

[Marian the Librarian]

More from the VF 2007 catalog - "How Then Shall We Dress? Christian Modesty and the Public Undressing of America," on page 17: 

Quote

"Vision Forum has received numerous reports from young ladies who have found this audio message inspirational, convicting, balanced, and practical. Given the rise of immodesty, sensuality, and androgyny in our culture, this message is timely."

I'm sure DPIAT recommended this one to the young ladies he "Cinema of Wondered" performing "Paddlin' Madeleine Home," too. 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

I'd pity the poor psychiatrist who had to listen Doug's litany of woe, delusions of grandeur, and numerous daddy/mommy issues. 

All presented in that flowery prose of his.

[Howl]

6 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

All presented in that flowery prose of his.

also, turgid, stilted. 

[thoughtful]

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, smittykins said:

Anyone catch the “Heart of Anger” book on page 27(under the heading “Heart Surgery for Discontent Children”)?  It’s practical, biblical, and “completely psychology-free”! 

Sins against grammar as well as common sense. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Palimpsest

[nokidsmom]

On 8/3/2019 at 6:00 PM, Palimpsest said:

And I freely admit I went to a Maxwell public conference a few years ago with my husband.  We also behaved ourselves respectfully (as in shut our mouths) and stayed undercover, but reported back. 

I considered going to a public conference being held in my area a few years ago but last minute travel prevented it.  Probably just as well considered what @Palimpsest reported from her attendance which was later.   But while I was in my scheming er, planning stages I had every intention of keeping a low profile.  I was not going there to confront or openly criticize them.  

[Sobeknofret]

On 8/3/2019 at 5:00 PM, Palimpsest said:

Yeah, if they go on the public circuit.  But have caution.  And any lurkers who may be tempted to crash this one, please don't do it!

I hope we have moles who will eventually report back but this is not one for members or lurkers to mess with.

Not only that.  This particular conference seems to be very well guarded and is not advertised as public.  Any member of the general public is probably excluded by the approval process for registration.  They hope they will get 180 True Believers.  I hope they get well under 50.

No snark here.

A long time ago @MamaJunebug crashed respectfully sat in the back of a (public) Fundie wedding.  Completely non disruptively.  And I freely admit I went to a Maxwell public conference a few years ago with my husband.  We also behaved ourselves respectfully (as in shut our mouths) and stayed undercover, but reported back. 

That is allowed by our rules.  To attend public events for research purposes but any disruption is at your own risk.  Use common sense!

Mr. P and I left the Maxwell conference after an hour because it was pretty traumatic listening to the crap IRL.  Way not fun.  Never again.  I'm now an advocate of please don't touch the poop.  For your own sakes.

And I will just mention that the Botkins are big on guns ...  

I have no intention of crashing anything. I'm not a complete fool yet. They're nowhere near me, and I am fully cognizant of the fact that this is a private event. I just really would like to see what they're peddling these days, and what they are thinking. They've never even strayed into my area, so the chances of me ever encountering them are slim to none, and I very likely would never seek to engage them even if I did; I'm content to do my watching from afar. It's more wishful thinking on my part than anything. I'm far more likely to encounter Kevin Swanson, Chris Jeub, and Courtney of Sweet Tea and Buttermilk, than the Botkins. 

[Palimpsest]

@Sobeknofret, my post was meant as a general warning that this was not a public conference.  It was not aimed at you specifically, and I am sorry I did not make that clear.   I'm sure you are very sensible.

However. I sometimes worry that newer members and lurkers don't understand that we are joking when we talk about crashing Fundie functions.   Or they don't read our Guidelines.

Sadly, in the past we had a small handful of members who did not behave with common sense in off-site interactions.  That is why we had to make the rule about not being able to control what people do, but asking people always to use common sense and never claim any affiliation with FJ.  If anyone should chose to behave foolishly or stage a demonstration then it is on their own behalf, and at their own risk and responsibility.  Many of the Fundies we talk about here are far from nice people.

[Sobeknofret]

47 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@Sobeknofret, my post was meant as a general warning that this was not a public conference.  It was not aimed at you specifically, and I am sorry I did not make that clear.   I'm sure you are very sensible.

However. I sometimes worry that newer members and lurkers don't understand that we are joking when we talk about crashing Fundie functions.   Or they don't read our Guidelines.

Sadly, in the past we had a small handful of members who did not behave with common sense in off-site interactions.  That is why we had to make the rule about not being able to control what people do, but asking people always to use common sense and never claim any affiliation with FJ.  If anyone should chose to behave foolishly or stage a demonstration then it is on their own behalf, and at their own risk and responsibility.  Many of the Fundies we talk about here are far from nice people.

It's all good

[Hane]

Several years ago, I considered lurking at a Maxhell event held at the town next to mine, but had a Worldly Community Theater conflict. (In their subsequent reporting on the event, the Maxhellions damned central Connecticut with vanishingly faint praise.)

[Marian the Librarian]

Bumping to report that registration for the conference is now open, and here are some of The Rules:

Quote

 

All registrations are screened before confirmation, which may take up to 48 hours. Please don't make travel arrangements until you have received your registration confirmation. We reserve the right to decline any registration for any reason.

We are trying to create a safe and edifying place for believers to network with other believers. Anyone exhibiting divisive, inappropriate, or defiling behavior may be asked to leave the conference with no refund. Anyone posting inappropriate, divisive, or defiling content on the private Facebook group may, after being warned, have his registration cancelled according to our cancellation policy and be removed from the group.

 

I wonder if anyone they don't already know will sign up??

[Monstrous Black Sheep]

11 hours ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Bumping to report that registration for the conference is now open, and here are some of The Rules: 

I wonder if anyone they don't already know will sign up??

and THIS is why I did not receive an invite, although my roommate did.

[erunerune]

I wonder how they screen, phone interview? Skype? Do they have AS & E google the shit out of any applicants that aren’t familiar?

[hoipolloi]

So, what is defiling behavior? 

Are there definitions or do the Botkins just know it when they see it?

[Howl]

3 hours ago, erunerune said:

I wonder how they screen, phone interview? Skype? Do they have AS & E google the shit out of any applicants that aren’t familiar?

Checking social media accounts would be first on their list.  Second would be checking church affiliation and possibly requiring a reference from said church. 

This wouldn't be too arduous; they aren't getting anywhere close to 180 attendees. 

[hoipolloi]

31 minutes ago, Howl said:

Second would be checking church affiliation and possibly requiring a reference from said church. 

Yes, I figured this would be the bottom line for them. Surprised in a way that they don't actually just say that in their list of "conference policies."

References from pastors or elders are SOP for fundie fuckwads who are always on about people being in submission to their pastors or having to be members of a "community of believers."

 

[refugee]

On 8/2/2019 at 12:13 AM, hoipolloi said:

Not really a derailment. Geoff shows up in a number of the advertisements, especially for CDs or DVDs of "conference" proceedings.

It goes to show that Geoff Botkin, like his erstwhile buddy Doug Phillips, is a scammer.

Can't believe that people really bought that shite -- especially the books & various media -- at those incredibly inflated prices. 

 

For our part, I would take note of what the kids liked in the catalog and then find lower-priced versions elsewhere.  (For example, American Girl/Liberty-scale dolls at Target, and the fancy calligraphy kit in a wooden case from an online retailer, maybe even the same source where VF got them before marking them way up.)

But I was also stupid enough to buy some of their books and CDs before the bloom was off the rose.

Edited August 11, 2019 by refugee
Further thought