Botkin Alert. They are back on the conference circuit!

[ophelia]

So did Audri's family also leave fundamentalism or are they supportive of her decisions? Do we know anything about that?

[Cults-r-us]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:41 PM, smittykins said:

I remember an episode of “Mystery Diagnosis” with a young girl who was eventually diagnosed with it, and it took many months and several doctors to get there.  At one point, her pediatrician decided she was acting out/being a drama queen, and told her parents to assure her that nothing was wrong.  And she.was.screaming!  Fortunately, they found a specialist who took her seriously and found the cause.

My aunt went to the library to research her recent tic douloureaux (trigeminal neuralgia diagnosis. The first article she found was titled "Patients Driven to Suicide by Pain". Eventually, she had a craniotomy. They go behind your ear and wrap the nerve in teflon so it can't rub against other tissue, which causes the pain. I know a person who had this done twice, as the relief from the first surgery didn't last.

[Cults-r-us]

Interestingly (or perhaps not), this same aunt got mal de debarque syndrome, a vestbubular ailment people get from passive motion like cruises. It is usually temporary, but her symptoms are permanent. So I wondered if the tic douloureau and mal de debarque had anything to do with each other?

[Howl]

12 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I was a weird kid, though, I loved broadway, soundtracks, and records. 

I worked with a woman whose identical-twin nephews (age 12 or so at the time) were obsessed with Broadway musicals. If I ever come across her again, I'll ask how it all turned out. The boys would be into their 20s by now. 

 

8 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

in honor of Errol Flynn's* birthday...*Of all people

Indeed.  I did a quick perusal of his Wiki and came across the phrase "his womanising and hedonistic personal life."  He had an early history of pilfering cash, which made me wonder if he was perhaps a bit of a sociopath.  So, of course I googled, and came up with this blog: The Errol Flynn Blog: The Mystery and Mystique of Errol Flynn. 

Interesting because the blog's author thinks that Flynn is a textbook psychopath.  A reader responds that Flynn was more nuanced, and shows the text of a long letter (more of an essay) written by Flynn about facing fear. 

One of Flynn's favorite sayings was "the way of a transgressor is not as hard as they claim."  Flynn, who died of a fourth heart attack at age 50,  was a smoker and heavy drinker and was using heroine and opiates at the end.

And yes, underage girls were an element of Flynn's life. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Howl

[FilleMondaine]

3 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

Interestingly (or perhaps not), this same aunt got mal de debarque syndrome, a vestbubular ailment people get from passive motion like cruises. It is usually temporary, but her symptoms are permanent. So I wondered if the tic douloureau and mal de debarque had anything to do with each other?

As a French speaker (albeit nothing medical), these terms are elucidating. Imagining the stoic French (at least relevant to we exuberant Americans) stand by calling the disease "painful involuntary movements"--emphasis on painful really brings the point home for me.

Yes, suicide from physical pain is a thing, just as suicide from emotional pain. To be perfectly frank, there is no judgment from me, because you get to a point where you just...cant.

[Hane]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

I worked with a woman whose identical-twin nephews (age 12 or so at the time) were obsessed with Broadway musicals. If I ever come across her again, I'll ask how it all turned out. The boys would be into their 20s by now. 

My gawd: These boys sound like the twins who were in my church’s youth/book discussion group. Their mom, a certified, experienced teacher, homeschooled them because they were professional actors. They went on to attend UConn.

[Marmion]

6 hours ago, Howl said:

 

 

Indeed.  I did a quick perusal of his Wiki and came across the phrase "his womanising and hedonistic personal life."  He had an early history of pilfering cash, which made me wonder if he was perhaps a bit of a sociopath.  So, of course I googled, and came up with this blog: The Errol Flynn Blog: The Mystery and Mystique of Errol Flynn. 

Interesting because the blog's author thinks that Flynn is a textbook psychopath.  A reader responds that Flynn was more nuanced, and shows the text of a long letter (more of an essay) written by Flynn about facing fear. 

One of Flynn's favorite sayings was "the way of a transgressor is not as hard as they claim."  Flynn, who died of a fourth heart attack at age 50,  was a smoker and heavy drinker and was using heroine and opiates at the end.

And yes, underage girls were an element of Flynn's life. 

 Also , it has been alleged that Errol Flynn was a spy for Nazi Germany .   https://www.newstatesman.com/node/151155 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Marmion

[Howl]

17 minutes ago, Marmion said:

 Also , it has been alleged that Errol Flynn was a spy for Nazi Germany .   https://www.newstatesman.com/node/151155 

Wow, @Marmionthat is quite the bombshell article! Thanks for posting the link. 

So,

• hedonist
• womanizer
• violent/possible manslaughter
• alcoholic/drug addict
• antisemite
• German sympathizer/spy 
• may have provided Japan with advance info on Pearl Harbor via his film

 

[Marmion]

In all fairness though , he has simlly been alleged to have been a Nazi German secret agent ,  particularly by the author Charles Higham . It has never been conclusively proven .   There is evidence both arguing for{  https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/06/was-hollywood-actor-errol-flynn-a-nazi-spy/ } , and against { https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-errol-flynns-nazi-pal-convert-him}  this charge .  Readers can decide for themselves what to think .  P.S. Incidentally , such suspicions were the inspiration behind the villain Neville Sinclair , in " The Rocketeer " movie .  

Spoiler

 

 

[LurkerOverThePond]

I don't follow the Great Duck Biologist and his family regularly so... have Audri and Ben left the fundie life for good or are they fundie lite now? Do we know if they are still in contact with the rest of the Botkins?

The only Botkin that I follow occasionally is David, and by "follow" I mean hate-follow his public instagram. I just can't wrap my mind around his gun-worshipping life filled with paranoia. I mean take a look at his night stand containing his "day stuff": https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPGO7NJPvM/  So he's ready to jump out of his sleep to use two hanguns, a knife, and some kind of assault rifle, probably semi-automatic (I admit I know pretty much nothing about guns). That's some first degree paranoia for you. He lives in rural Tennessee, not war torn areas of Syria!

And take a look at his homeschooling: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_xce1NJ20n/  and   https://www.instagram.com/p/B_oAFDUpO5s/  I feel so sorry for those poor innocent kids they are BRAINWASHING daily. There are plenty of other examples on his IG of this, including the gems of his little daughter shooting an actual rifle and his baby napping with a toy gun by his head. Those poor children never had a chance.

I just can't understand a household where everything weapons-related is so readily available no matter what the topic is: https://www.instagram.com/p/BtFJvnUnfNQ/

Edited November 15, 2020 by LurkerOverThePond

[teachergirl]

I thought I was the only one who followed David. He's batshit and brags on his homeschooling all the time. I have said this before, if there is ever a standoff at the Botkin compound, he'll be leading the charge. And you are correct, he ties EVERY subject into guns, gun control and the second amendment

[Howl]

I just checked out the "nightstand" post on Instagram.  There were only three comments and a few "likes." 

[DomWackTroll]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:34 PM, Howl said:

Also, I can see Darby and Audri's generation not knowing who Liza Minelli (age 74) is

I wouldn't expect them to know her because of her professional accomplishments, but pretty much anyone who was living in the "real world" in the early 2000's knew who who Liza Minnelli was because of her, um, interesting courtship with and marriage to showbiz sleaze David Gest. The wedding, with Michael Jackson as best man and Elizabeth Taylor as maid of honor, was a grotesque circus that headlined People, US, all the tabloids, and all the entertainment TV shows for months on end. Then came the inevitable reality show. The woman was everywhere for a few years. 

[Petronella]

6 hours ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

I don't follow the Great Duck Biologist and his family regularly so... have Audri and Ben left the fundie life for good or are they fundie lite now? Do we know if they are still in contact with the rest of the Botkins?

The only Botkin that I follow occasionally is David, and by "follow" I mean hate-follow his public instagram. I just can't wrap my mind around his gun-worshipping life filled with paranoia. I mean take a look at his night stand containing his "day stuff": https://www.instagram.com/p/CEPGO7NJPvM/  So he's ready to jump out of his sleep to use two hanguns, a knife, and some kind of assault rifle, probably semi-automatic (I admit I know pretty much nothing about guns). That's some first degree paranoia for you. He lives in rural Tennessee, not war torn areas of Syria!

And take a look at his homeschooling: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_xce1NJ20n/  and   https://www.instagram.com/p/B_oAFDUpO5s/  I feel so sorry for those poor innocent kids they are BRAINWASHING daily. There are plenty of other examples on his IG of this, including the gems of his little daughter shooting an actual rifle and his baby napping with a toy gun by his head. Those poor children never had a chance.

I just can't understand a household where everything weapons-related is so readily available no matter what the topic is: https://www.instagram.com/p/BtFJvnUnfNQ/

Whoa.

A quote from the third link: “If weapons are part of your religion then homeschooling is The Way to teach your children.”

How are WEAPONS part of his RELIGION?? Good Lord!

[Marmion]

1 hour ago, Petronella said:

Whoa.

A quote from the third link: “If weapons are part of your religion then homeschooling is The Way to teach your children.”

How are WEAPONS part of his RELIGION?? Good Lord!

 

Quote

Although the Bible allows a God-follower to own weapons, and even sometimes encourages it, God does not give us the universal right to own and use any weapon we wish. Despite the beliefs of many, the Bible does not say Christians have the inalienable right to have a gun—even if the law allows it (1 Corinthians 10:23). Our weapon ownership is governed by civil authorities (1 Timothy 2:1-2) and by the will of God in the particular situation. Jesus refused to defend Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane because there was a greater purpose (John 18:10-11). Sometimes God's purpose is fulfilled by the strength of our faith, not the strength of our defenses.

Before a Christian gets a weapon, he should contemplate his motivations and his training. Protection of life and family is a good reason to own a weapon; exaggerated fear of conspiracy theories is not. Training is essential so that the weapon is used correctly and doesn't cause unintended harm. As in everything we do, a Christian should pray and ask for God's guidance first. Jesus' greatest commandment to us is to love God and love others. Whether that requires using a weapon or not depends on the situation.

 https://www.compellingtruth.org/Christians-weapons.html   

Quote

Weapons, we can conclude, are not the problem. Nowhere does the Bible forbid Christians from bearing arms. But wisdom and caution are of the utmost importance if one does choose to bear a lethal weapon. Anyone who owns and carries a firearm should be properly trained, and know and carefully follow allsafety rules and laws pertaining to such a responsibility.

Ultimately, the decision to bear arms is a personal choice determined by one's own convictions. As a believer, the use of deadly force would be applied only as a last resort, when no other option is available, to prevent an evil from being committed and to protect human life.

https://www.learnreligions.com/the-bible-on-the-right-to-bear-arms-701963  

Quote

Self defense is defined as the defense of one’s person or interests, especially through the use of physical force, which is permitted in certain cases as an answer to a charge of violent crime. Nowhere in the definition is the act of vengeance mentioned. However, it does discuss the element of maintaining your safety and the need to defend your life at all costs.  Owning a gun does not mean you’re vowing to kill or condoning the death of another. The right to bear arms is a decision that every Christian must make for themselves. If a Christian believes that having a gun will provide them with the security they need to protect themselves and others then that is their prerogative and through scriptures is sanctioned. However, as a gun owner you must be willing to use a gun as a last resort and the act of firing a weapon should be done as a means of protection not an act of anger or vengeance.

 https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/articles/should-christians-own-a-gun.aspx

[CyborgKin]

Remember, as blogged previously, Geoff believes that the 2nd Amendment is a 'God-given right'.

[Howl]

Quote

Our weapon ownership is governed by civil authorities (1 Timothy 2:1-2) and by the will of God in the particular situation. 

Wut?  No. 

Quote

Although the Bible allows a God-follower to own weapons, and even sometimes encourages it, God does not give us the universal right to own and use any weapon we wish.

Huh? 

These guys twist and interpret the Bible to make it OK to own firearms. It's pretty damned clear, incontrovertible, that the Bible condemns taking human life (thou shall not kill), but "defending yourself" with a gun, which is likely to result in the death of another, is scripture sanctioned? 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Howl

[Jasmar]

They interpret that commandment as “Thou shall not murder,” and they don’t view killing as murder if it’s in ‘self defense.’ And the concept of the Self extends to one’s property, however one may choose to define that.

[Marmion]

8 hours ago, Howl said:

Wut?  No. 

Huh? 

 

These guys twist and interpret the Bible to make it OK to own firearms. It's pretty damned clear, incontrovertible, that the Bible condemns taking human life (thou shall not kill), but "defending yourself" with a gun, which is likely to result in the death of another, is scripture sanctioned? 

 

Well , the Anabaptist peace churches would certainly agree with you .  {  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_pacifism  ,  https://www.anabaptists.org/ras/21e74.html  , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches }  However , most modern mainline churches , such as the Lutherans , for instance , instead hold to just war theory ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Christian_views )   

Spoiler

 

 And more alarmingly , there are such would be Christian terrorists as the author of this piece .  http://www.peacemakersonline.com/institute/index.php/archives/1172   

[Petronella]

15 hours ago, Jasmar said:

They interpret that commandment as “Thou shall not murder,” and they don’t view killing as murder if it’s in ‘self defense.’ And the concept of the Self extends to one’s property, however one may choose to define that.

I'm with self-defense being not the same as murder. But counting property as a fundamental extension of self, and therefore protecting your property as self-defense??? Ghastly. What a barren moral system.

[CyborgKin]

I see a wide gulf between 'measured use of force to defend lives from a clear and present threat' and 'use immediate lethal force on anyone who trespasses on your property'.

 

Or does the 2nd Amendment to the Lord's Prayer say ,"Forgive us our trespasses as quickly as we put a few rounds in anyone who trespasses against us." ?

 

Actually looking at Exodus 22 in the NIV: (yeah I know, the people under discussion probably wouldn't be caught dead quoting the NIV but the KJV phrasing is a mess, so sue me)

Quote

2 “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 

3 but if it happens after sunrise, the defender is guilty of bloodshed. 

So unless it was dark, killing in property defence did count as murder.  And they didn't have the benefit of great electrical lighting at the time, so there's even less excuse now.  So no, not even the Old Testament law they love so much supports their 'moral' system.

[Howl]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:09 AM, CyborgKin said:

Remember, as blogged previously, Geoff believes that the 2nd Amendment is a 'God-given right'.

Only the 2nd part of the 2nd amendment.  Everyone completely ignores the "well regulated militia" part.  

[Marmion]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

Only the 2nd part of the 2nd amendment.  Everyone completely ignores the "well regulated militia" part.  

Quote

Dr. Robert J. Cottrol is the editor of the book “Gun Control and the Constitution: Sources and Explorations on the Second Amendment.” And Cottrol, a Second Amendment expert and legal historian, is the Harold Paul Green Research Professor of Law at George Washington University. He says the words “well regulated” refer to proficiency and top-notch training.

“This was written at a time when there was relatively little in the way of formal training in marksmanship on the part of armies and usually less on the part of militias,” Cottrol said. “The idea was that familiarity gained with weapons in private pursuits would translate into a militia that could be mobilized when needed.”

 https://www.insidesources.com/well-regulated-really-mean/  

[JermajestyDuggar]

Benjamin Botkin just posted on Instagram that he’s working on the score for a Lara Croft Tomb Raider video game. That’s kind of crazy to me. A video game like that is so not fundie approved. I doubt his parents approve of this kind of work. 

[The Mother Dust]

I feel weirdly and nonsensically proprietary over this, the TR games are my jam.  They were the first video games that I ever became obsessed with, and i've played all the games more than once.  Maybe as a feminist, I shouldnt have loved them so much, but I didn't really care about her boobs, I guess I could overlook that because I was so thrilled to play a really cool badass female character, or at least thats how teenage me felt about it.  In the latest reboot of the games they've made her body alot more realistic.  I'm assuming he's working on the next game in the reboot series?  If so, thats actually a really big deal.  I'm impressed and annoyed at the same time, haha.   Even with less boobage, I agree with you @JermajestyDuggar  the TR games would not be Maxwell approved.  A woman running all over the world, sometimes in scanty clothes, most of the time by herself, with no headship?  Going on manly man adventures with her twin pistols strapped to her hips, to kick bad guys' butts with no headship in tow?  SCANDAL.   This may annoy me less if taking this job means his worldview is actually changing.